I'm a Russian woman in America now

[JR]

to being to lazy to proof read

That would be "too lazy to"

U R Welcome Ronnie..

[JR]

Welcome Natasha,
I hope you and your husband share an entire lifetime of love and happiness.

[Ronnie]

That would be "too lazy to"

U R Welcome Ronnie..

 :selfharm:

[Ronnie]

Natasha welcome

Ronnie , how can you possibly ask such inappropriate question about feeling herself one day American, that is totall  nonsense, will you ever feel yourself belonging to some other nation i wonder?

I think I mentioned in the same post that my wife wants to BE American, not just live here as a perpertual ex-pat.  How can you take a passport of a country, raise your right arm and swear allegiance to that country, join the army of that country and not consider yourself to be OF that country.  The place where one is born should control or brand him/her for life?  Now that would be total nonsense.

[Sculpto]

Ronnie.. how much time have you spent around immigrants other than your wife?

[Ronnie]

Ronnie.. how much time have you spent around immigrants other than your wife?

More than you my kind friend.   I have worked in the past and work now with immigrants from Afghanistan, India, Pakistan, Mexico, El Salvador (my former boss), Australia, Phillipines, China, Dominican Republic, Jordan, Ireland and the UK (besides the many friends we have from the FSU and Eastern Europe).  Most of them (not all) speak of Americans by using the pronoun "we". 

Others don't.  One Filipino with whom I work, served 22 years in the US Navy, has a son entering Berkeley in the fall and yet when he retires, he will return to what he calls "home" - a small wooden house in a village 30 miles from Manila.

As to JC's question if I could ever consider myself of another country.  I could.  I've got ancestral roots in Ireland and felt quite comfortable there during my one and only visit.  When I was younger I lived in Italy and loved the country so much, I thought about staying - even married an Italian girl.  However, she wanted to live in the USA and though we split up within weeks of arriving, she did remarry another American and raised a child with him in Arizona.   It appears she did not Americanize however as she and her American-born-and-raised daughter recently moved to Tuscany.  It seems her daughter also considers herself to be Italian.

Conversely, I have an old friend who rose to the top of the Italian professional baseball league, becoming very well paid as the country's premier pitcher.  But he was always critical of his fellow Italians and his country.  He and his wife bought a home in Laguna Niguel, California where they now reside full time.

So people can be born in a place that they feel is not their natural home - that has been my experience at least.

[bobb]

Ah...another topic that showed great interest but has degenerated like so many. 

[Lee08]

Lee,

From what we've heard so far from Natasha, you've chosen very wisely, very wisely indeed.

Not only have you chosen wisely, it seems, but you a managed to find the proverbial needle in the very large haystack.  What?  A Muscovitcha who doesn't see the idea of living in a small village as akin to being sent to Dante's Inferno?  How ever did you do that? My wife is from Dnipropetrovsk but she looks at me horrorstruck whenever I openly long for the serenity of my former home in Grass Valley, California, where the only reason to close the doors at night is to keep the deer and raccoons from raiding the fridge.

Hello Ronnie,
Yes, I was very lucky in finding my wife. I talked to many Russian women before her and the first time that I talked to her on the phone I immediately realized that she was different. She is a very special woman that just wanted a simple life and family. She is 31 years old so that may make a difference also and she always reminds me of a laid back country girl even though she's from a large city. Maybe she is one in a million, but I think it's possible there might be others with her attitude.
 We both feel very thankful and blessed that we are together now and married.

LLS

[Sculpto]

More than you my kind friend.   I have worked in the past and work now with immigrants from Afghanistan, India, Pakistan, Mexico, El Salvador (my former boss), Australia, Phillipines, China, Dominican Republic, Jordan, Ireland and the UK (besides the many friends we have from the FSU and Eastern Europe).  Most of them (not all) speak of Americans by using the pronoun "we". 

Others don't.  One Filipino with whom I work, served 22 years in the US Navy, has a son entering Berkeley in the fall and yet when he retires, he will return to what he calls "home" - a small wooden house in a village 30 miles from Manila.

As to JC's question if I could ever consider myself of another country.  I could.  I've got ancestral roots in Ireland and felt quite comfortable there during my one and only visit.  When I was younger I lived in Italy and loved the country so much, I thought about staying - even married an Italian girl.  However, she wanted to live in the USA and though we split up within weeks of arriving, she did remarry another American and raised a child with him in Arizona.   It appears she did not Americanize however as she and her American-born-and-raised daughter recently moved to Tuscany.  It seems her daughter also considers herself to be Italian.

Conversely, I have an old friend who rose to the top of the Italian professional baseball league, becoming very well paid as the country's premier pitcher.  But he was always critical of his fellow Italians and his country.  He and his wife bought a home in Laguna Niguel, California where they now reside full time.

So people can be born in a place that they feel is not their natural home - that has been my experience at least.


[/quote

I am not trying to pick a fight Ronnie.. but aren't you the same guy who in another thread told us that the Mexican guys you were working with all wanted to stay here in the USA?  Or was that GOB? 

I live in a city of immigrants.  More than 50% of the people here in SF were not born in this country.  Hardly any of them see themselves as Americans, even those who have achieved citizenship.    Many of them never really learn English, same as my great grandmother didn't learn English.  So, I don't really buy what you are saying. 

Now, Natasha and Lee's situation is very different.  They live in an area that is not full of immigrants, so, her American experience is going to be completely different than a Russian who arrives into Brighton Beach...

[possum]

Low-paying jobs are also in US and everywhere as well. And the Tomsk Department of Labor offers jobs and vacancies from 4500 rub to 300 000 rub (if you look their website) and the commercial recruitment firms offer the same.

And just how low paying are those jobs you speak of?. Somehow I doubt there are many jobs paying less than $200 a month in the US.. Let me guess, the 300,000 ruble job is the highest executive position at a multi-million DOLLAR corporation?. Yeah, I've this kind of thing before.. I'll let you figure out why they advertise their opening all over the internet..

About the program I guess you tell by your own experience  

No, I have no first hand knowledge of THIS particular program, but I do know our regional government and how they like to praise small business owners in front of the camera while extorting them behind the scenes.. Does the name Aleksandr Makarov sound familiar?.

Several of my friends have their own business they don't complain.

Then I'm sure you've heard about "inspections" and what they typically entail..

Regarding corruption: other side is if people prefer give a bribe than to report there always will be corruption. Demand and supply.

That's been the government mantra for some time now.. It's not the corrupt statesmen who are to blame for corruption, it's the poor schmuck who gives the bribe to get ahead in life.. If the government were serious about ending corruption, there'd be cameras and recording devices in every government office, as well as portable recorders for Fire Department officials and militsia

OK, I get, America is bad.. the great Satan that wants to conquer the world and has no consideration for it's own citizens.. There's no freedom, no hope for any improvement, and the only way to save it from total collapse is Revolution!

Товарищи! Революция, о которой так долго мечтали большевики, свершилась! Ура!

[Ronnie]

am not trying to pick a fight Ronnie.. but aren't you the same guy who in another thread told us that the Mexican guys you were working with all wanted to stay here in the USA?  Or was that GOB?  

Wasn't me.  Maybe GOB, dunno.  As to San Francisco.  Many immigrants light there as it's a city they have heard so much about all their lives.  Ditto for NYC.  Ultimately they venture out to raise families.  Not sure what you find hard to believe about my experiences, though.  I think I gave a fair picture of both sides of the the question.  My point is that my question to Natasha was not, what did JC say, "inappropriate and nonsense?".  Well, she may see it that way and it understandable, but immigrants come in more than one variety.  

Here's a word of advice to anyone immigrating to America, Canada or any other country:  You will find yourself very warmly received and people will find you the most interesting person in the room.  That is, right up until the time you start expressing negative views of your new country.  So if you want to make yourself more miserable than you already are, go head, exercise your right to show poor taste.

[Sculpto]

Possum.. I very much understand your perspective, but, before you idealize life in the states lets dispel some myths from the other side...

And just how low paying are those jobs you speak of?. Somehow I doubt there are many jobs paying less than $200 a month in the US.. Let me guess, the 300,000 ruble job is the highest executive position at a multi-million DOLLAR corporation?. Yeah, I've this kind of thing before.. I'll let you figure out why they advertise their opening all over the internet..

No there aren't 200 dollar a month jobs in the US.. but, there are LOTS of low paying service jobs.  I have seen many people recently go from being software engineers to burger flipping or espresso making engineers.  Thats what the economy will support at the moment.  At any rate, my point is things are relative to the economy one lives in.  If you happen to be unemployed and want to take advantage of the worker retraining programs available through the government you have the choice of janitor or cabinet maker.  The later is really a joke personally for me as I could be teaching that course rather than begging to be enrolled in it.  This ain't France over here in the good ole US of A.

No, I have no first hand knowledge of THIS particular program, but I do know our regional government and how they like to praise small business owners in front of the camera while extorting them behind the scenes.. Does the name Aleksandr Makarov sound familiar?.

Why do you think it is any different here?  In fact, right now with the budget crisis there is NO MONEY available from the government to help small businesses, at least in California.  On the contrary businesses are closing all over the place because they can not get loans and people aren't buying.  Sales tax just went up.  The government mandates that if a business provides health insurance to one employee they must provide it to all.  Then there is workman's compensation insurance so if your employee slips and breaks his toe while on the job he can be paid for time off.  And there are lots of other ways in which the government retroactively taxes small businesses who are ultimately powerless to do anything about it.  In some ways there is something to be said for the "black" economy that exists in some countries...

Then I'm sure you've heard about "inspections" and what they typically entail..

There was an interesting article in todays SF Chronicle regarding street food vendors.  Apparently in the current economy a number of restaurant owners and chefs have bought themselves carts and are selling creme brules and other delicacies from the intimacy of a street vendor cart.  Most of these guys are doing it without permits.. why?  Getting a permit from SF for this kind of business costs, are you ready?  About $20,000.  To be a freaking street vendor you must invest $20,000 just in permits.  then there are the inspections from the police, fire department, health department etc.. you think those inspectors don't have their hands out?  I get into this same battle all the time with building inspectors.  I design kitchens.  The code says the directly above the source of heat there may not be a flammable material within 30 inches of the source of heat.  The code says nothing about the rest of the cabinets height above the counters, but, the inspectors in SF have decided they are going to arbitrarily enforce 18 inches as a standard.  Contractors are flipping out about this and some have been forced to remove cabinets from the wall or pay a "fine" to get their jobs signed off.  Ironically the American with Disabilities act does specify a dimension.. 14 inches above counter for wall cabinets so someone in a wheel chair could reach the wall cabinets.  So, these freaking jackarses are just looking for "grease".  When I have encountered this problem on my jobs I have been fortunate enough to know the damn code and I just go over their heads.. but anyway, you get the point.  I will also mention that I have been witness to payoffs from contractors to city workers in the tune of tens of thousands of dollars to "help" get jobs approved in an expedited fashion.

That's been the government mantra for some time now.. It's not the corrupt statesmen who are to blame for corruption, it's the poor schmuck who gives the bribe to get ahead in life.. If the government were serious about ending corruption, there'd be cameras and recording devices in every government office, as well as portable recorders for Fire Department officials and militsia

wouldn't that be nice.  

OK, I get, America is bad.. the great Satan that wants to conquer the world and has no consideration for it's own citizens.. There's no freedom, no hope for any improvement, and the only way to save it from total collapse is Revolution!

Товарищи! Революция, о которой так долго мечтали большевики, свершилась! Ура!

hahaha.. in theory our system allows for improvement.. the problem is the political parties are so entrenched that nothing ever really seems to change.  The system here is just a more perfectly evolved form of screwing the little guy and making him say thank you for the privilege.

[Sculpto]

  You will find yourself very warmly received and people will find you the most interesting person in the room.  That is, right up until the time you start expressing negative views of your new country.  So if you want to make yourself more miserable than you already are, go head, exercise your right to show poor taste.

Things must be really different where you live.. or maybe people just talk to me differently.  You would lose it if you heard some of the crap I hear regularly.

[Ooooops]

I think I mentioned in the same post that my wife wants to BE American

What do you mean by "BE American"?   I'm not exactly sure...

[Sculpto]

What do you mean by "BE American"?   I'm not exactly sure...

Good point Ooops.. what is an American anyway? 

[possum]

Possum.. I very much understand your perspective, but, before you idealize life in the states lets dispel some myths from the other side...

No there aren't 200 dollar a month jobs in the US.. but, there are LOTS of low paying service jobs.  I have seen many people recently go from being software engineers to burger flipping or espresso making engineers.  Thats what the economy will support at the moment.

Yes, there are plenty of low paying jobs in the world, that was not my argument.. I simply pointed out the inefficiency of a specific branch of the Russian Department of Labor, and it's notoriety for pushing low paying unskilled jobs to professionals, regardless of the state of the economy..

Why do you think it is any different here?  In fact, right now with the budget crisis there is NO MONEY available from the government to help small businesses, at least in California.

I don't think California is representative of the entire US, but anyway my point was that most small business in Russia would just like the government to leave them alone as much as possible and not invent a new way to fleece them every year.. Because with each new regulation, the amount of bribes to be paid goes up exponentially..

There was an interesting article in todays SF Chronicle regarding street food vendors.  Apparently in the current economy a number of restaurant owners and chefs have bought themselves carts and are selling creme brules and other delicacies from the intimacy of a street vendor cart.  Most of these guys are doing it without permits.. why?  Getting a permit from SF for this kind of business costs, are you ready?  About $20,000.  To be a freaking street vendor you must invest $20,000 just in permits.  then there are the inspections from the police, fire department, health department etc.. you think those inspectors don't have their hands out?  I get into this same battle all the time with building inspectors.  I design kitchens.  The code says the directly above the source of heat there may not be a flammable material within 30 inches of the source of heat.  The code says nothing about the rest of the cabinets height above the counters, but, the inspectors in SF have decided they are going to arbitrarily enforce 18 inches as a standard.  Contractors are flipping out about this and some have been forced to remove cabinets from the wall or pay a "fine" to get their jobs signed off.  Ironically the American with Disabilities act does specify a dimension.. 14 inches above counter for wall cabinets so someone in a wheel chair could reach the wall cabinets.  So, these freaking jackarses are just looking for "grease".  When I have encountered this problem on my jobs I have been fortunate enough to know the damn code and I just go over their heads.. but anyway, you get the point.  I will also mention that I have been witness to payoffs from contractors to city workers in the tune of tens of thousands of dollars to "help" get jobs approved in an expedited fashion.

Point taken.. But how would you feel if everything you did was up to code, whatever it may be at the time, and were still asked for a bribe to make sure you stay up to code or to keep the inspector away for more than one day at a time?. My gf is a business owner, and trust me this is exactly what has to deal with.. it's either you pay or they keep coming back until they find something they can fine you for, and then you pay anyway.. You can't go over their heads every time unless you're well-connected, in which case you probably wouldn't be a small business owner in the first place.. you'd be the head of a multi-million corporation.. And this has been going on since the fall of the Union.. The current economic crisis is only a year old..

hahaha.. in theory our system allows for improvement.. the problem is the political parties are so entrenched that nothing ever really seems to change.  The system here is just a more perfectly evolved form of screwing the little guy and making him say thank you for the privilege.

But but you just GOT change!. The tall smooth taking guy on TV, isn't he all about change?.

[possum]

Good point Ooops.. what is an American anyway? 

To most Russians, Americans are a nation without an identity..

[Ooooops]

To most Russians, Americans are a nation without an identity..

What is an identity for a nation?   Vodka & seledka?       

[possum]

What is an identity for a nation?   Vodka & seledka?       

I'm not the right person to ask.. You should talk to someone who moves to the US only to complain about how bad AmeRRika is compared to <insert person's country of origin> 

[Faux Pas]

But but you just GOT change!. The tall smooth taking guy on TV, isn't he all about change?.

Hope and change!
 

[Ooooops]

I'm not the right person to ask.. You should talk to someone who moves to the US only to complain about how bad AmeRRika is compared to <insert person's country of origin> 

To tell you the truth I prefer not to talk to those people at all...   

[possum]

To tell you the truth I prefer not to talk to those people at all...   

Good for you!.

[Blues Fairy]

But but you just GOT change!. The tall smooth taking guy on TV, isn't he all about change?.

Yep it's all we'll have left when he's done taxing us.

[OlgaH]

possum, I did not live in Tomsk, but I know story of Alexander Makarov.

I was dealing with inspections and my friends are dealing with inspection and as I already said they don't complain.   But it doesn't mean that I don't know other side stories.

Regarding corruption in US you can find examples as below  

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081211161741.htm

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-corruption-louisiana_wittmar27,0,2957672.story

http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel09/highlight_052009.htm

OK, I get, America is bad..

No, possum, you did not get. You as many Russians, probably, have some myths about life in US   But US as any other countries has its own problems   Yes, life in US in comparison with Russia or other counties of FSU much better, but it is not just the US Government who makes such life but also people of US  

[Faux Pas]

possum, I did not live in Tomsk, but I know story of Alexander Makarov.

I was dealing with inspections and my friends are dealing with inspection and as I already said they don't complain.   But it doesn't mean that I don't know other side stories.

Regarding corruption in US you can find examples as below  

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081211161741.htm

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-corruption-louisiana_wittmar27,0,2957672.story

http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel09/highlight_052009.htm

No, possum, you did not get. You as many Russians, probably, have some myths about life in US   But US as any other countries has its own problems   Yes, life in US in comparison with Russia or other counties of FSU much better, but it is not just the US Government who makes such life but also people of US  

Olga, corruption is prevalent everywhere and there are plenty of examples. I can understand your defensiveness when one points out and speaks negatively about Russian corruption but, are you of the belief than Russia is more, less or the same corrupt as anywhere else?