Out of the blue

[Doll]

 Just thinking (again))))))- what a woman is looking for in a international marriage? Stability! I can't see how it works in this situation. Everything seems to be unstable.
I hope we are talking of a true love here.

[aventino68]

Doll are you kidding? My heart stopped when i first bumped into her on the stairs in Kiev. For me it was true love for her maybe not.  It was about stability in Hong Kong (I've been here 10 years already)  and convincing her of it. With a nice house, a cook and cleaner, basically she can spend her time with friends or the kids or doing travel and stuff with me. No need to work unless she really wanted to. And I would have been happy to move back to Europe in a few years when the kids are older and we could live near her parents.

Still, hard to compare with a greencard. I think I need to keep looking for the right woman anyway.

 

[kievstar]

Hong Kong is a nice city which is very expensive and great shopping for the ladies.  It is listed as one of the top 5 cities in the World to buy expensive clothing.  That being said I work in HK a lot and all the UW I have ever met who have been there do not like that city to live.  

Giving money to a woman to keep any future relationship going is not a good thing to do unless you want shallow love and to be taken for a fool later.  I would encourage you to take some classes on improving yourself on being a better man in a relationship. Most men need improvement.  

[SANDRO43]

I would think Hong Kong is too exotic for a Caucasian woman.

Ooooops (Oksana), you're too exotic , get a grip on yourself .

[Faux Pas]

Doll, if she had said yes to me when i asked her to marry she would have had permanent right to live in Hong Kong or anywhere my passports allowed. If she didn't want to marry until visiting Hong Kong then she needed a visa to do so that's why i offered it.

I wanted her to marry me, on a beach in Phuket, flying all her family out to be there. No visa required.

Yes I am learning that she might have been too young but finding someone with a young child in their late twenties or thirties has been impossible so far.

aventino, what is this deal with finding someone with a young child? Why not childless or an older child? It seems to mean from your descriptions that you've taken the purchase a puppy approach and she does have other options and is playing them out before giving you the final final solution.

She must be noticing your bizarre attachment to her child and child situation than you are to her. You are obviously much more taken with her than she is with you. You can't buy her love. Forget the insinuation from Doll about support.  Support should be considered much later after you have developed a loving relationship and an engagement.

She has given you the "dear john" and you really should move on. You may even change her mind eventually but I foreseeing that only leading to bigger problems in the future. It seems there are worlds of differences between the two of you and I don't mean just geographically and financially.

[Ooooops]

Ooooops, you're too exotic , get a grip on yourself .

I know...   

Got a grip.   Let me know when I can let go...   

[I/O]

aventino68: Honest thread. You're on a learning curve and I think that curve needs to turn vertical immediately.

Ok so what I have learn't so far for next time?

Not much by what I can see.

The relationship isn't ever sure until she is settled at you place and is happy

Get a clue.

Nothing wrong with paying to support her in the Ukraine but it is an interim thing until she is with you in your country

Everything wrong with that, not least of all, whether intentional or not, it is painting all the wrong pictures. In these cases a man should foot the bill for extra ordinary costs she incurs BECAUSE of the relationship together with special occasion gifts or whatever. Anything more is for idiots IMO.

If I am going to get involved with someone in their early 20's I need to expect that this "abrupt change in the relationship direction" might happen a few times before I find the right one

If "abrupt" means having your butt handed to you a few times then I agree.

I may need to put some work in explaining Hong Kong is warm and sunny and close to a zillion great holiday destinations and though it isn't the USA it is quite nice

What has destination got to do with love? You need to get focused on the real deal here or you'll be back posting the same things over and over.

I should meet her family and parents early on or the relationship is probably going nowhere

Meet her parents WHEN the relationship is going somewhere. That may be early on and it may not.

What can everyone add?

You're focused on all the wrong things IMO. The peripherals (location, parents etc) will fall into place once you find the right girl. You met and decided you wanted to marry immediately. Very few decent Russian women in their right mind will come into that, she didn't either. Learn that and you might be a chance next time around. This one has gone for reasons you'll probably never really know.

I suspect you're probably quite a decent guy but from what I can glean here (I admit it is only a few lines of text), you're nowhere near ready for marriage, particularly and international marriage. Great though your job maybe (Obviously it is or you wouldn't be there), you should get out of the office more and get your "woman skills" a bit more up to speed and then you may see this sort of crap coming before you get whacked upside the head with it.

BTW RU and UA are littered with mid to late 20's women with young children. Avoid the Sumburg desperates and you might find a keeper.

I/O

[Doll]

Doll are you kidding?

No, I am not. There was no true love on her side.

[SANDRO43]

Got a grip.   Let me know when I can let go...   

[Doll]

what is "Sumburg desperates"?

[Shadow]

Aventino when I first asked you the questions it was to find you the answers you were looking for. Do not be embarrassed to answer, as it will give a picture that is less clear. Most guys here made their share of mistakes and foolish behaviour, and if you follow the discussions here we still continue.

So let me recap the situation. You met her in Kiev, and on the second trip proposed. She decided she needed some time, but as you met her daughter you started to send the $400 a month for her daughter the last 4 months, apart from making further visits.

The red flags we have already discussed. Not meeting her friends or her parents, meeting her outside of her home town constantly. To this add her 'wanting more time'.

In my opinion you have been in denial too long about her true feelings for you. What complicated this was that you were for her a source of good income, which means that she would have an extra treshold telling you she was not interested to be your partner.
It is very possible that she has found someone she cares for more when she was away, and the mail  that cam after might just have been a way for her to keep a backup.

While men have the instinct to provide for those who they care for, the next time you should suppress that and not send money until there is a mutual commitment. You might find that a woman who wants to have a future with you will actually not accept you sending her anything. Remember that the women have managed to survive until they met you, and would survive without you. That does not mean you are to be greedy and not spend anything on a woman or her children, just do not become their 'sponsor'.

[Doll]

Never got the answer- how long did it last? 6 trips during what time?

[aventino68]

Doll, I answered, I visited every month and was last there for 2 weeks in May.

Faux Pas, it is really simple. Anyone single with a child will understand how I feel about my son and the effort it takes to be away from him while dating. Plus it is very difficult to fit in an older child with the 6 year old, difficult for the language, difficult for getting a place at school.

I simply found someone who I cared about and grew to love and with whom I thought the relationship would succeed. Maybe others on here with blended families, and I am not referring to having the kids on weekends, can chat more about getting differing aged kids to live together. I wasn't looking for a puppy in a window at all, just trying to find a relationship that would be good for everyone.

I have no idea about teenagers and older children, the whole idea of adding them into my life right now doesn't feel right. Sure though, I take your point and will see who is out there for me.  

I/O thanks for the comments, what does get a clue mean? I read lots of threads on here where the woman decides at the last minute that she doesn't want to leave her family and the RU or UA. BTW I chatted with her since October and met in Jan so we are looking at 10 months so far. I'm not doing 2 or 3 years of flying back and forth before she decides she might visit me. She should make some effort to visit me too, I'm happy to throw some tickets in the mail.

Half the posters on here say I asked for a serious relationship too soon and half say it wasn't soon enough.

Thanks everyone.

[Doll]

it is very difficult to fit in an older child with the 6 year old, difficult for the language, difficult for getting a place at school.

Why does anybody need to fit with the child? Does he or she live with you?
Why is it difficult to get a place at school?

[aventino68]

I don't want to spear off on a tangent about blended families or dating as a single parent but it's way different to be single and yes the child lives with me.

[Doll]

Does this girl work at all?

[Doll]

Who can explain  me how it is possible for a 25 y.o woman with the kid to leave her town for 2 weeks every month? It is only possible if she doesn't work at all.
Can be the case of a professional dater. I said- possible! Don't take all my thoughts as a sin- money, age, location,whatever! She dumped him and there has to be the reason. If the guys here are happy with the explanation like " she dumped him because she is a b---tch" then what ever make you happy, gentlemen! 

[Faux Pas]

Doll, I answered, I visited every month and was last there for 2 weeks in May.

Faux Pas, it is really simple. Anyone single with a child will understand how I feel about my son and the effort it takes to be away from him while dating. Plus it is very difficult to fit in an older child with the 6 year old, difficult for the language, difficult for getting a place at school.

I simply found someone who I cared about and grew to love and with whom I thought the relationship would succeed. Maybe others on here with blended families, and I am not referring to having the kids on weekends, can chat more about getting differing aged kids to live together. I wasn't looking for a puppy in a window at all, just trying to find a relationship that would be good for everyone.

aventino some (most) will ask pointed questions in an effort to give you some useable advice and not for disparaging your situation. I am one of those. Keep in mind the advice is worth what you paid for it. Use it, forget it or keep it in the back of your mind for future use.

I can understand if you are a single parent and you hope to find a woman who can relate on that level. Finding someone with your same interests and concerns certainly play into any relationship and are a starting point however, you seem to be skipping completely over learning about her on an inner emotional level because your personal situations appear to match.

Just some advice, find the "woman" without all the  baggage of having a child this age or having a child at all, or the woman being that age. You seemed to have first reached your conclusion and then trying to build the scenario to get there. You are 40 something years old. Finding a woman closer to your age, she may more understand the requirements you have concerning your child than a woman 15 years younger that has a child of her own.

Before I start rambling off too much I'll finish with this, concentrate on finding your love and mate. All of those other concerns are things that can be overcome with the right lady. She may or may not have children and she may be 25 or 45 but, she is the one you should focus on finding IMO

[Gator]

Aventino,

Contrary to the opinion of the wise and crusty I/O, I think you are learning rapidly.  Perhaps I/O did not read the initial posts that showed you knew absolutely nothing in the beginning.      However, you still have a way to go, particularly about money. 

The married and experienced Kievstar and I/O (and me) are telling you not to pay until both of you are totally committed.  If you had not given $400/mo to this woman, she probably would not be interested in seeing you again.  That would be the end of your story with her and you now would be well on your way with a more compatible RW.  Instead you have wasted your time and some money, your heart hurts, and you are hanging on to a fantasy.

Giving her $400/mo is what the UM with money do.  The difference is that the local men get to boink her every day, don't have to support her in Hong Kong, and can discard her without notice (which they do when she turns 30).

Giving her $400/mo for monthly visits allows her to to line up other foreign men, add a part-time UM, and suddenly she has a nice lifestyle, making over $1000-1500/mo.  Maybe some rich idiot from America will give her that much just by himself. 

Why should she move to Hong Kong!  She can wait until the man of her dreams arrives.  Meanwhile you are grasping at a fantasy that she loves you and will be the perfect mother for your child.  If this woman felt any love for you, she would not be a mystery.

[aventino68]

Doll thanks for that. I never asked, to be honest but she was living at home with her parents. In hindsight I thought my approach made sense, we chatted for a few months Oct-Dec and then met. When we were both comfortable and got on well she introduced me to her daughter and we also got on well. Next up would have been my son and her daughter meeting. Obviously if the kids didn't like either parent then the relationship would have to end, the kids come first.

I/O mentioned leaving location etc til later but I think from day 1 she has to be open to the idea of Hong Kong and also of having more kids. I think it is alot to ask someone who had their heart set on living somewhere such as the US to come to Hong Kong just because they want to be with me, as it might have been in this case.  Or Doll might be right. There could be a dozen plausable reasons why she dumped me and she doesn't have to say.

Anyway, time to move on and find someone more similar and most likely older.

[Doll]

Giving her $400/mo for monthly visits allows her to to line up other foreign men, add a part-time UM, and suddenly she has a nice lifestyle, making over $1000-1500/mo.

Is this what you really think?

[Doll]

Giving her $400/mo for monthly visits

What do you mean- FOR?
Are RW or UW prostitutes to be paid for visits?

[Ooooops]

I never asked, to be honest ....

How is possible to propose to somebody you know so little about? 

[Doll]

How is possible to propose to somebody you know so little about? 

He never asked what?

[Gator]

What do you mean- FOR?
Are RW or UW prostitutes to be paid for visits?

In Aventino's case, this is exactly what he created IMO.  I assert that without the money she probably would not have shown continuing interest in him.  What else did he get other than a monthly visit? 

-  I don't read of constant communication saying how much she misses him. 

-  She avoids introducing him to her parents who she lives with. 

-  She kept her profile active on the Internet so that she could find another man. 

-  Without any warning signals (hence, "Out of the Blue") she vaporizes. 

Where is the love?  What else was Aventino getting if nothing more than a monthly visit?

In the typical case of a UM giving a UW money, what is the intent of the UM?