Out of the blue

[groovlstk]

Bad move. Instead of moving on, you continue to be her backup plan.
If you must, then at least try to contact other women to meet during the July trip, and make sure she knows about it.

I'm always dismayed at how difficult a time many guys have in admitting that a woman is simply not interested in him romantically. Anything but the dreaded "she's not into you" is acceptable - he tried to rush too fast, didn't send enough $, her parents didn't like him, etc. - when to anyone looking from the outside the explanation is simple and obvious.

Aventino, if you go to see this woman again you're setting yourself up for a role as her doormat and ATM.

[HiTech]

Shadow, Faux and groov, you missed his 2nd post.

Provided I don't feel over the hill having hit the 40's I have a reasonable supply of both.  Having decided that there is a RW out there looking for me that I need to find, I will keep looking. Mendeleyev I was always keen to meet her family and get them over here for a holiday, a visa for her brother if he wanted to stay with us and work in Hong Kong, had organised living in her home town for 3 months each year and commuting to Paris for work, and will be more than happy to do so again next time I find another great woman.

Hey, this one was great maybe she just wasn't for me. I was always all about the family.

Where he decided to move on.

HiTech

[Daveman]

Aventino, after reading your latest thoughts and her response to you, I have to go along with the others who indicated that she just isn't all that into you.  I can only speak from my experience, but I can tell you with absolute clarity of thought, reasoning, and now objectivity, that in my experience when an RW is into you she makes a decision and BAM is ready to move on it with action, and act NOW.

If you had only one or two visits, I'd say play it out and see because you are still in the growing and learning phase. But, after 6 visits? This woman is using you as more of a backup plan.  Another point you mentioned was her various options at 25. No, she really doesn't have that many. Yes, many men over there would love to pork her, but she really doesn't have all that many local options for marriage because she has a child.  Having a child severely limits a woman's marriage options in the FSU -- even if she's 25 and gorgeous.

Oooops made a pretty good point about various types of relations, but my question is this, would you really want to be married to a woman who was not head over heels passionately in love with you, craving to be near you, cannot live without you kind of love?  Would you be happy with a woman who is more of a roommate with some sexual benefits, but in all likelihood would move on after a short marriage (remember she's still only 25... and her options even with a child will increase dramatically when she arrives in the west -- not that this would be her plan but more of a natural progression of reality).

So, IMO you made a good decision to move on and find that special woman who is dying to be with you.

Good luck,
Dave

[groovlstk]

Shadow, Faux and groov, you missed his 2nd post.

Where he decided to move on.

HiTech

We'll see, HT - I hope you're right. But from what I see in his posts he's in that vacillate and extenuate stage wherein he'll begin reaching out to other women but if his ex will agree to another meeting he'd be at the Aerosvit terminal in 5 mins.

[Shadow]

Shadow, Faux and groov, you missed his 2nd post.

Where he decided to move on.

HiTech

Hitech,

I reacted on his last post where he states to meet in July and see how they stand.

[Sculpto]

ok here I come along with a diverging view.

You guys all said just about the same to me.  Yet, I just got off the phone with "A", who is sitting with her sister and extending the formal invitation for me to visit Tomsk.. NEXT YEAR AFTER THE MOURNING period is finished.

ok, this thread isn't about me.. so.. Aventino should follow his heart.  yes I agree he seems passive about what has happened.. but.. maybe that is just his nature.  Pilots are methodical and patient from what I have seen.  You know, they go through the check list.. marking off every specific detail.. everything in order.. everything in control.. until they get the darn thing in the air and they deal with controlled chaos and momentum until the the thing is back on the ground.

I learn towards the opinion expressed by Ooooops... the parents and family are important.. but.. "you" are marrying the woman.. not the entire family.  This isn't the dark ages.. However.. on the other hand.. I also agree there is no negative to courting the family.  I think it is especially important when there is limited face time.  

But, Aventino is not suffering this issue.  He has a luxury of visits the rest of us can only dream about.  So, it occurs to me there is a different dynamic at work because of it.

For the rest of us peasants.. a lady knows our ability to visit is highly limited.  She knows she has to make a decision and take a risk that if she were being courted by a local she would not have to make.  But, Aventino's situation is different.  For the lady it may feel a lot more like a normal local relationship where the guy may work in another location for part of the month.  The down time between visits is pretty minimal, and so her schedule and sense of urgency may be different.  he has spoiled her with attention.. not with a little bit of money to live on.  BTW Aventino.. if you decide to continue with her.. DO NOT send more money.  This does give you the chance to test her on her cash versus sincerity ratio.  Seriously, not a single penny, for anything.. no matter what..

With her latest offer of "reconciliation" I am more convinced than before that her breakup was a ploy to test the seriousness of Aventino.  That he just accepted it and didn't beg her will probably play well in chemical town and even if he goes back with her he retained his power because he didn't beg and he didn't try to convince her, rather, she came back to him.  If he decides to see her again I would put money on it that she is more possesive than ever and goes out of her way to rock his world.  

So.. Aventino.. I say.. follow your heart.  If your heart says go to see her, do it.. if your heart has been mashed up and you have let go emotionally.. move on.  Just keep in mind that if you do see her.. there have been some serious flags and it now goes to the time of actions speak louder than words.  You ARE in the position of power.. so you need to act like it going forward.  

[groovlstk]

ok here I come along with a diverging view.

You guys all said just about the same to me.  Yet, I just got off the phone with "A", who is sitting with her sister and extending the formal invitation for me to visit Tomsk.. NEXT YEAR AFTER THE MOURNING period is finished.

And the OP should keep in mind that Sculpto is NOT MARRIED to a Russian woman and his experience w/his significant other is limited to a few VERY TURBULENT weeks of vacation time with her.

Sculpto, I hope that you will succeed in this, but you are still at sea and far from shore. You may consider yourself a success story but until you've settled in with her the jury is still out.

[kievstar]

Run from this girl.  Never look back.  Testing someone by breaking up with them is not normal.  There is a reason this girl's previous husband left.  Some girls are just bad.  Maybe this girl is not really divorced and is the family's source of income.  Does not matter.  You should stop all forms of communication.  You have a son to think about.

[Sculpto]

Groov.. I know.. but its progressing.. papers are filed.. we are going to meet n Mexico in the fall.. even if long distance there is a life integration taking place.. things are going REALLY well.

[Sculpto]

Run from this girl.  Never look back.  Testing someone by breaking up with them is not normal.  There is a reason this girl's previous husband left.  Some girls are just bad.  Maybe this girl is not really divorced and is the family's source of income.  Does not matter.  You should stop all forms of communication.  You have a son to think about.

Kiev.. what if she just freaked out?  what if the "test" wasnt a conscious "what will he do if I break up with him" but just an impulsive reaction to fear and the feeling of pressure?  I have noticed over and over that FSUW do NOT respond positively to pressure of any kind.  For that matter.. who does from anywhere in the world?

[facetrock]

  If a woman is really into you she will love the pressure and attention you will give. By breaking up with him for the hell of it like Sculpto says is really immature and high schoolish. Mature intelligent women dont do that. I say move on and dont look back.

[Sculpto]

  If a woman is really into you she will love the pressure and attention you will give. By breaking up with him for the hell of it like Sculpto says is really immature and high schoolish. Mature intelligent women dont do that. I say move on and dont look back.

in GENERAL you are probably right Facet.. but.. "in general" are the keywords.. i know my girl did not respond to the pressure but when i backed off a bit she came around to exactly what I was pressuring her about.. everyone is different.

I am not saying Aventino SHOULD get back with the girl.. just that he should follow his heart.. with eyes wide open.

[Gator]

I left home when I was 17.   

Oooops,

Maybe it was the other way - having had enough, your parents pushed you out of the nest.    Sorry, couldn't resist.

Russians are considered adults at 17.  I do not know how many still live at home, but in America it is so common (25 million over 18) that we have websites on how to cope with adult children living at home.

http://www.adultchildrenlivingathome.com/blog/

Now we have a new term - boomerang kids - children who left and returned because of the economy.  As bad as it is in the US, I understand it is even more prevalent in Spain and Italy.

[Faux Pas]

Shadow, Faux and groov, you missed his 2nd post.

Where he decided to move on.

HiTech

HiTech no actually I did see his second post and I hope he took mendy's post to heart. From his earlier post it looks like he has the window wide open for her to change her mind. If she does and he gives it another go then good for him. But the scenario with this lady doesn't look like a good outcome with this lady for him either way. Just words of caution and hopefully encouragement

[Gator]

Aventino,

Move on means to move on.  Past is past.  Don't plan your next trip around her.  Instead, plan your next trip around the new RW you wish to meet.

When she asks if you are coming to meet her again, say, "Maybe,  dependent upon how long I stay in Russia."

If she says she wants to get married, congratulate her and say, "Can I come to the wedding?"  And then ask,  "By the way, who is the lucky man?"

Stop the money.  

Again, past is past.  

[HiTech]

Faux,

But the scenario with this lady doesn't look like a good outcome with this lady for him either way. Just words of caution and hopefully encouragement

About this , we are in total agreement.

HiTech

[I/O]

say Joe Schmuck is marrying a girl who is traditional and very close to her parents, and they expressly disapprove of Joe Schmuck.  Should he invest into courting their good opinion?  I think not.  I think he should take a long hard look at his future wife.

Girls (or boys) tied to mamas apron strings are usually fairly easy to spot. If Joe Schmuck had a clue, IMO he shouldn't be thinking marriage.

If the parents always know better what's best for their daughter and are arrogant enough to openly express their disapproval of her choice, it may well be that they simply disrespect their daughter and have always done so.

Agreed, that is very possible.

Any ideas how that might have affected her self-esteem and decision-making skills?  Any ideas how she might be equipped for coping with other people's disapproval, be it her employer or even her future children?

The only workable solution IMO is to spot and avoid such women (or men). Look for "Mama dids" and "Papa dids". Too many "Mama saids" or "Papa saids" tend to set off warning bells with me.

Take a long hard look at mama. Morinlikely you're seeing your future . Best done at close range IMO.

I/O

[JR]

A dog will soon return to his vomit.

Walk away from her. Do you really need this behavior for the rest of your life? Or a very nasty divorce in front of your son? You may treat the two children eaually but will she?

Do not meet her again. What is the point? You need some more abuse?

Find someone who'll treat you right. Someone who loves you for who you are, where you are and for the man that you are.

[Ooooops]

  If a woman is really into you she will love the pressure and attention you will give.

Huh?   

[Ooooops]

Oooops,

Maybe it was the other way - having had enough, your parents pushed you out of the nest.    Sorry, couldn't resist.

I wasn't an easy teenager, I have to admit it...       No, I left for college.   Same was for my husband - he left for college right after school as well.   

 The only reason I see for parents intervening with adult children's life is a bad housing situation in FSU when few generations have to share an apartment, that's why it's suggested wooing the family as well as the woman herself, I guess...    Otherwise her life may become unbearable if the Western suitor isn't accepted by Mama-Papa...   

[Sculpto]

Oooops you actually bring up an interesting issue.  I, like you, moved out at 17.  Its not uncommon in the US.  I think most of us however have the impression it is not common or "normal" in the FSU.  So, would you say that the main reason adult children stay at home is economic?  Or, like it is in Mexico.. good girls don't move out until they are married?  (and even then not always if the couple is young and can't afford their own place)

[Ooooops]

  So, would you say that the main reason adult children stay at home is economic?

I'd say 99% is economical reason.   1% may fall under parents needing physical help but if we are talking about 40-something old parents then it's rarely the case.   Later, when parents get older, they may want to move in back with grown children for health related reasons...   

[Sculpto]

I'd say 99% is economical reason.   1% may fall under parents needing physical help but if we are talking about 40-something old parents then it's rarely the case.   Later, when parents get older, they may want to move in back with grown children for health related reasons...   

I think that should dispel another myth.  I think a lot of guys are under the impression adult kids stay home cuz they love their parents so much. 

[Daveman]

I'd say 99% is economical reason.   1% may fall under parents needing physical help but if we are talking about 40-something old parents then it's rarely the case.   Later, when parents get older, they may want to move in back with grown children for health related reasons...   

eeeeeeeeyup and they get extra drugs to keep the kid from strangling him

[aventino68]

Hi all,

Yes I got a reply and decided to call it quits. She wants to maybe look ahead to July but when she was on skype last night wouldn't even reply to my "Hello how are you". Big difference I felt between a timeout pondering a relationship versus putting someone on the backburner for convenience.

Out looking,  started chatting with someone again and will see if we can meet up in the UA and chat over coffee in July.

You have all been a big help. Thanks