Out of the blue

[Ooooops]

eeeeeeeeyup and they get extra drugs to keep the kid from strangling him

Be nice to your kids - they will be choosing your nursing home!  (c)   

[I/O]

(c) 

 

I/O

[mies]

Be nice to your kids - they will be choosing your nursing home!  (c)  

nice one

Aventino - you made a right choice. If she indeed wrote you what you've quoted - i am now convinced this woman keeps you as a milk cow. My parents were always eager to meet men I was acquainted with. If men expressed interest in meeting my parents (frankly speaking - nobody ever did LOL) I would refuse the man only if i had ABSOLUTELY NO PLANS of common future with this man, if i was ashamed of knowing this man. Even friends got introduced to parents. If she isn't sure about you - she should not be taking your money/support.

Let me tell you a story from my past. I was interpreting for a nice AM. He came to Ukraine to meet a woman from.. let's say Kherson. Woman had a child. Man specifically wanted to marry a woman with a child. Child was adorable, woman was very beautiful - not the model beauty, but very feminine and soft beauty. "Ideal wife" type. College instructor. Child had asthma or something like that. Man was not significantly older than a woman - in the 15 years bracket. Woman was around 25, he was around 40. He was completely sure she was sincere - primarily because she had a child, she appeared as a good and caring mother, and he thought she is looking for good father for her child. Also because her child liked him a lot and they spent time together. Woman asked him money for trip x5 of what her trip was worth, she asked money for health resort for her sick child, she asked money for her not so healthy mom. And he kept giving her money even though i gently warned him. The day before he left this woman talked to me, and she appeared as very calculative and indecent woman, she was referring to the man in sarcastic manner - no signs of love or affection. She viewed him as a way to get financial support for herself - not even for her child, and she had no plans to marry him. My impression was that woman was very spoiled with love of her parents, and she was completely selfish and narcissistic. She didn't care much about child because her mom was mostly looking after child, she didn't care about man, she didn't care about her mom - she only cared about herself. She thought nobody was good enough for her. Of course I told the man in milder terms our dialogue with her. He did not quite believe me. He said i must have misunderstood her. When he was leaving Ukraine he proposed to her, woman said this is too early to make such important decision and she isn't sure. Man anyway started a fiancee visa process. Then few months later he wrote me e-mail that woman disappeared after he sent her package for her visa application and she refuses to talk to him. Why do i tell this story? Not every mom of a young child is an honest and sincere woman. And not every woman with a young child is looking for husband. Some want money.

As for Hong-KOng - I have an Asian colleague originally from there. He told me he would be happy if he can get a job back in Hong-Kong comparable to the one he has in USA. He said his lifestyle would be at least as good as in USA, better than in Europe, and he will not have to face racial issues. Slavic women might be afraid of a "reverse" racial issues - living around people of different race, or she might know nothing about the place - hence look down at this option. If you are European though, with decent income, and offer her marriage - the only explanation i have - she does not love you.  

[JR]

nice one

Aventino - you made a right choice. If she indeed wrote you what you've quoted - i am now convinced this woman keeps you as a milk cow. My parents were always eager to meet men I was acquainted with. If men expressed interest in meeting my parents (frankly speaking - nobody ever did LOL) I would refuse the man only if i had ABSOLUTELY NO PLANS of common future with this man, if i was ashamed of knowing this man. Even friends got introduced to parents. If she isn't sure about you - she should not be taking your money/support.

Let me tell you a story from my past. I was interpreting for a nice AM. He came to Ukraine to meet a woman from.. let's say Kherson. Woman had a child. Man specifically wanted to marry a woman with a child. Child was adorable, woman was very beautiful - not the model beauty, but very feminine and soft beauty. "Ideal wife" type. College instructor. Child had asthma or something like that. Man was not significantly older than a woman - in the 15 years bracket. Woman was around 25, he was around 40. He was completely sure she was sincere - primarily because she had a child, she appeared as a good and caring mother, and he thought she is looking for good father for her child. Also because her child liked him a lot and they spent time together. Woman asked him money for trip x5 of what her trip was worth, she asked money for health resort for her sick child, she asked money for her not so healthy mom. And he kept giving her money even though i gently warned him. The day before he left this woman talked to me, and she appeared as very calculative and incident woman, she was referring to the man in sarcastic manner - no signs of love or affection. She viewed him as a way to get financial support for herself - not even for her child, and she had no plans to marry him. My impression was that woman was very spoiled with love of her parents, and she was completely selfish and narcissistic. She didn't care much about child because her mom was mostly looking after child, she didn't care about man, she didn't care about her mom - she only cared about herself. She thought nobody was good enough for her. Of course I told the man in milder terms our dialogue with her. He did not quite believe me. He said i must have misunderstood her. When he was leaving Ukraine he proposed to her, woman said this is too early to make such important decision and she isn't sure. Man anyway started a fiancee visa process. Then few months later he wrote me e-mail that woman disappeared after he sent her package for her visa application and she refuses to talk to him. Why do i tell this story? Not every mom of a young child is an honest and sincere woman. And not every woman with a young child is looking for husband. Some want money.

As for Hong-KOng - I have an Asian colleague originally from there. He told me he would be happy if he can get a job back in Hong-Kong comparable to the one he has in USA. He said his lifestyle would be at least as good as in USA, better than in Europe, and he will not have to face racial issues. Slavic women might be afraid of a "reverse" racial issues - living around people of different race, or she might know nothing about the place - hence look down at this option. If you are European though, with decent income, and offer her marriage - the only explanation i have - she does not love you.   

Nice take on it Mies

[aventino68]

Yes, I agree mies. Amongst all this travel and meeting someone from far away you forget it is just dating and it doesn't always work out. So I'll keep on looking and find someone else and it doesn't matter to me if they have a child or not so long as they are interested in having children since I want more.  For most, Hong Kong isn't where they were expecting to move to so I try to tell as much about the place as possible. If they love me and they can see it is a good lifestyle then for the right person it won't be a problem.

[Daveman]

Be nice to your kids - they will be choosing your nursing home!  (c)   

Heh, yes indeed.   :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:


Great post Mies,
What can you do for a guy who lives in his dream, actively participates in self delusion and rationalizes any common sense away?  Not much I guess.

I used to say quite frequently something like "guys throw common sense out the window in the FSU", but really, I'm not so sure anymore. I think many of these guys, perhaps all, are just as ridiculous in their approach, behavior, rationalizations, etc., with women in their own country.  The only real differences would be the addition of the "cultural difference" or "different language" excuses, and probably the inability to get such attention at home, but the same guys would lose their minds at the slightest attention of any attractive woman... from anywhere.

[JR]

Heh, yes indeed.   :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:


Great post Mies,
What can you do for a guy who lives in his dream, actively participates in self delusion and rationalizes any common sense away?  Not much I guess.

I used to say quite frequently something like "guys throw common sense out the window in the FSU", but really, I'm not so sure anymore. I think many of these guys, perhaps all, are just as ridiculous in their approach, behavior, rationalizations, etc., with women in their own country.  The only real differences would be the addition of the "cultural difference" or "different language" excuses, and probably the inability to get such attention at home, but the same guys would lose their minds at the slightest attention of any attractive woman... from anywhere.

It's almost always more about the "me" than the "they." Thinking with the little brain knows no geographical boundaries. The only thing about the FSU is that the pool of women available to you will consist of younger, more attractive women than the ones in your back yard. If some young, smoking hot American Babe gave you the come on your little brain would tie up and chain down the big brain just as quickly. And you'd rationalize away everything which came next just as you would in the FSU.

[UTRO]

Good choice Aventino.......... and don't you dare send anyone an allowance unless there is full commitment. If the Woman you find is working and is supporting herself, then why would you? If there hasn't been an Aventino in her life, she has assumably/presumably been doing so on her own.
Assure your FSU Woman that you support her both emotionally and financially if there is crisis, as you would any Woman. That, as a real Man, you support and love her. Assure her that these are not simply words. Gifts, travel tickets, hotels, etc... being the exception. If she has a child then a small amount here and there is quite thoughtful. Especially if her ex is a deadbeat.
Take Note: If she is into you 100%, she will want you to meet her parents as any Western Woman would. Just ask Sculpto

[aventino68]

Yes Utrobina, that's what I am hoping. I see the family as pretty important and most of the women I am chatting with do also so I am keen to keep looking until the right one comes along. 

[Ooooops]

As for Hong-KOng - I have an Asian colleague originally from there. He told me he would be happy if he can get a job back in Hong-Kong comparable to the one he has in USA. He said his lifestyle would be at least as good as in USA, better than in Europe, and he will not have to face racial issues. Slavic women might be afraid of a "reverse" racial issues - living around people of different race, or she might know nothing about the place - hence look down at this option. If you are European though, with decent income, and offer her marriage - the only explanation i have - she does not love you.   

Hong Kong is very expensive comparing to most of USA.   And there are quite a lot of Western people here, including Russian.   

[Aloe]

If an American man send her 10 SMS per day and expects that she will answer on every SMS he should consider that for example MegaFon SMS will cost her 19 rub each, so 10sms = 190 rub. Month of SMS in such amount of SMS every day will cost her 5700 rub and for some women it will be more than half of their monthly wage and fore some women it is their whole monthly wage.

are you sure? i smsed my fiance all the time and it cost me 2,5 rubles each using MTS, i specifically checked how much it costs. I doubt megafon charges that much more

[I/O]

And there are quite a lot of Western people here, including Russian.

Western? Relatively speaking I guess? 

I/O

[Ooooops]

Western? Relatively speaking I guess? 

Everything is relative.      But if we take Greenwich as West (and Moscow as well) then China (and HK) is pretty much East.   

[Aloe]

My husband never sent me any money, even when i complained how i had a very bad tooth ache and couldnt afford to go see a doctor, and frankly it bothered me A LOT that he wouldnt offer to help considering we were already engaged, so i dropped all the hints and told him directly i need money, then he said ok, how much u need, then i felt much better and didnt take his money, it was just the fact that he wasnt offering to help that bothered me lol.
but anyway, dont send money unless you are 100 percent sure of the person.  

[boaterguy]

My husband never sent me any money, even when i complained how i had a very bad tooth ache and couldnt afford to go see a doctor, and frankly it bothered me A LOT that he wouldnt offer to help considering we were already engaged, so i dropped all the hints and told him directly i need money, then he said ok, how much u need, then i felt much better and didnt take his money, it was just the fact that he wasnt offering to help that bothered me lol.
but anyway, dont send money unless you are 100 percent sure of the person.  

Boy! That hit the nail on the head with me. After our 2nd meeting(total of 6 weeks face time together) my wife hit me with almost the same. Really caught me off gaurd. Took a couple of days for it to pass through this thick head of mine amongst her silence! She told me she would get a job and pay for the work herself if I would not. My final deciscion was to have her have all of her dental problems taken care of if she had any. I spent $700 on her teeth over the next month. If she had the work done here it would probably have cost more than $3,000!

[Sculpto]

I agree 100% with the two previous posts.  the hint was  "You not listening to me" which really meant.. I need some money why dont you offer it, dumbass, a real man will offer.    Once I offered it she didn't want it but then I was listening and she felt better.

[OlgaH]

are you sure? i smsed my fiance all the time and it cost me 2,5 rubles each using MTS, i specifically checked how much it costs. I doubt megafon charges that much more

Aloe, thanks you have noticed. My bad. I'm sorry. I confused with international roaming.You pay 19 rub for SMS if you send Megaphone SMS from Europe or USA to Russia. Recently I was talking to one of my friend. She was going to go to Germany, and said that Megaphone raised prices. From Russia Megaphone charges 3,50 rub and BeeLine 5,50 rub.

[groovlstk]

Boy! That hit the nail on the head with me. After our 2nd meeting(total of 6 weeks face time together) my wife hit me with almost the same. Really caught me off gaurd. Took a couple of days for it to pass through this thick head of mine amongst her silence! She told me she would get a job and pay for the work herself if I would not. My final deciscion was to have her have all of her dental problems taken care of if she had any. I spent $700 on her teeth over the next month. If she had the work done here it would probably have cost more than $3,000!

Sorry to take this topic off on yet another tangent. It's been said before, but be really, really careful in terms of dentists in Ukraine or Russia. Last year we were hit with $15k in out-of-pocket expenses to have the shoddy dental work my wife received in Moscow corrected. We went to three different dentists to get confirmation, all said we should sue the original dentist (good luck with that one). Others here have written that they received excellent care w/FSU dentists, so just be careful who is performing the work.

To add insult to injury, when my wife told her Russian friends about this, their first suggestion was to fly to Russia to have the work done because it would be much less expensive   :seething:

[kievstar]

All the dentists I go to are female born Ukraine dentists in the USA.  They have told me male dentists are not very good in Ukraine as they tend to cut corners and pay bribes to get their certifications.  Seeing a new dentist in Chicago area tomorrow so we will see if the trend continues but I do not know where she is from yet (could be Russia and not Ukraine). Ostanina, Tatiana is her name.

One thing to be careful is if your are having major surgery on your teeth in Ukraine.  They do not clean the instruments like other countires do.  You may end up with a disease.  They have had major issues in the past which have been posted in the paper.   

[Daveman]

My husband never sent me any money, even when i complained how i had a very bad tooth ache and couldnt afford to go see a doctor, and frankly it bothered me A LOT that he wouldnt offer to help considering we were already engaged, so i dropped all the hints and told him directly i need money, then he said ok, how much u need, then i felt much better and didnt take his money, it was just the fact that he wasnt offering to help that bothered me lol.
but anyway, dont send money unless you are 100 percent sure of the person.  

Yes I agree.. once the relationship has developed, it's more natural and normal to take care of someone you love, in both directions.  I'd have a tendency to be very suspect of any woman who developed costly problems very soon after an initial meeting.  I guess what I am trying to get at is that there is a natural point on the relational growth time line where this would become absolutely normal.  I still don't get guys wanting to put their ladies on the monthly payroll, but to each their own.  Taking care of a woman you love is one thing, but paying her to be your girlfriend is entirely different.

[mies]

what a world i'm living in.. giving hints to man that i need money for dentist? oh my....

i got severely sick few times while dating my current husband. First time - he came over immediately and took me to the hospital - i was afraid to call the ambulance because it could have ended bad. The other time we were vacationing and I again needed urgent medical care. He went searching for it in the middle of the night at the tiny resort village - without any directions or knowing local area, and found - a doctor and medication. I guess this was the major indication for me that he cares about me. In both cases he spent very little money, but he clearly shown that he is the most reliable man I ever seen.
It would never cross my mind to ask money from a man - for any purpose. Man's eagerness to give you money at your request IMHO does not equate to his eagerness to help you when you need it. I know many men who give money to women when women ask them, and these men don't give a sh-t about those women. In some cases - they can barely remember the name of the girl they gave money to.

[JR]

My husband never sent me any money, even when i complained how i had a very bad tooth ache and couldnt afford to go see a doctor, and frankly it bothered me A LOT that he wouldnt offer to help considering we were already engaged, so i dropped all the hints and told him directly i need money, then he said ok, how much u need, then i felt much better and didnt take his money, it was just the fact that he wasnt offering to help that bothered me lol.
but anyway, dont send money unless you are 100 percent sure of the person.  

Your husband is young and inexperienced. Your needs went right over his head Aloe. Why? Because you were apporaching him like a woman, which is logical because you are. However he is a man and can't read between the lines. When you approached him like a man, "I need money for my toothe." he responded like a man and gave you what you needed.

This should be a lesson to many women and men. Don't approach each other on a same gender basis. If you want results you should try communicating in a way the opposite sex understands and can respond to. I know it sounds silly and many women get very frustrated with men because we can't "read" you. But when it really matters you should try to be direct with a man. The results will almost always be much better. And of course the same goes for men. All the time we go around acting like men when we're trying to interact with women and we are continually amazed that women don't "get' us.

[boaterguy]

LOL! I guess the topic has been swayed to the teeth! The work my wife had was done by a female and it was done well! The funny part is after she came here. Got socked for 2 K. My wife had a sensitive tooth. They thought it was one of here old root canals with "red jacket" in it. Some serious Russian filler. Turns out it was the tooth she had just had fixed...which naturally would be sensitive. At least the dentisit we were referred to was honest. Told us that it was a different tooth but could cause probelms later. ARRGH! Went ahead with the reconstruction under the camera for big bucks. No way to explain this to the wifey so just made her feel better.

[kievstar]

JR, depends on the country.  RM tend to know what a woman needs and they also are better than foreign men in not paying for something they do not want to do.  AM and Belgium men tend to be weak compared to RM when it relates to women.  Most AM and Belgium men tend to be clueless around women.  RM may have faults but they also have positives as well.    

[JR]

There's another country besides America? When did this happen and why wasn't I informed? Sheesh!!!!