Where do you draw the line and say enough?

[jdk1963]

Let me first say that I understand an agencies desire to present their ladies in the best possible light.  At some point though shouldn't the agency say something? At least address complaints.  It really is not enough to simply blacklist the obvious evil doers.  And treating the paying customers as though they are stupid is unacceptable.

I have had a continuing bad experience with an agency and the only reason I stuck around was because there was one woman who is quite incredible.  I have no reason to doubt her but when you no longer trust the agency what can you do?

[SANDRO43]

I have had a continuing bad experience with an agency and the only reason I stuck around was because there was one woman who is quite incredible.  I have no reason to doubt her but when you no longer trust the agency what can you do?

Move on to direct communications, if possible, and bypass the agency .

[Sculpto]

and if you can not do what Sandro said.. it means the lady is part of the scam.. I mean if the agency will not allow direct contact..

which agency/site is it?

And guys.. if he is using one of the known "bad ones" lets not jump down his throat over it ok. 

[ECOCKS]

Sandro's remark says it all. This is basic and should happen as soon as you decide the girl is worth beginning to move towards a relationship. If the agency will not pass your info along, then send a message that you will no longer communicate except through emails and internet voice/video calls. Then walkaway if you have to.

Plenty of fish in the ocean.

Best of Luck!

[groovlstk]

I have had a continuing bad experience with an agency and the only reason I stuck around was because there was one woman who is quite incredible.

You've just answered your own question Why do you think other guys stick around? Probably because a little attention from women in those oh-so-beautiful photos is enough to justify the risk and expense.

I have no reason to doubt her but when you no longer trust the agency what can you do?

There are many other ways to meet RW, you should never feel bound to agencies if you're not comfortable with the risk and expense. Even 5 years ago when I was searching there weren't many other options besides agencies, but that has changed a lot recently and will continue to change.

[jdk1963]

I have started down that road.  That was actually the first thing I did.  She is worth the effort and I will ask if they will pass my contact information along.  I am not holding my breath on that however.

I have been wanting to rid myself of the agency for several weeks now but she does not speak much English and I really do not trust the agency.  I have entertained the thought of getting English lesson for her so that we do not have to deal with the agency when we meet.  Unfortunately the only place I know of is the agency.  Does anyone have any suggestions for Kherson?  I have made a contact in Nikolaev and she has said she is willing to help but #1 lady lives in Kherson.

I will say this, if a lady cannot be sincere in a letter why do I want to get on a plane to meet her?  I think that bit of logic evades many of the ladies and the agencies.

I would prefer not to name the agency as I do not want to get into a pissing contest.  I do understand their desire to present the ladies in the best possible ligh and their desire to protect the ladies from creeps but, they would do better to remember who pays the bills.

[Sculpto]

Does anyone have any suggestions for Kherson?  I have made a contact in Nikolaev and she has said she is willing to help but #1 lady lives in Kherson.

I will say this, if a lady cannot be sincere in a letter why do I want to get on a plane to meet her?  I think that bit of logic evades many of the ladies and the agencies.

jdk..

Listen.. I am not going to be critical.. but if you are in Kherson with this girl.. dude.. I have been down that road and I have probably dealt with the same agency.  I promise you I can help.

[jdk1963]

You've just answered your own question Why do you think other guys stick around? Probably because a little attention from women in those oh-so-beautiful photos is enough to justify the risk and expense.

While what you say is true to a certain extent this is most definitely not the case.  She is in fact rather plain looking and the first time we had a video chat she made a point of telling me she made no attempt to pretty herself because she wanted me to know what I was getting.  

[kievstar]

Best way to work with agency girls is to get on a plane for face to face.  Odds are numerous guys are writing to her.  Need to set yourself apart from the crowd and take action. 

Letter writing and than phone call seems to work better on the free sites and Elena Models.  Face to face works better with the agencies.

[Sculpto]

if you are using the site I think you are.. they have plain girls on there too for the purpose of making the whole thing appear more credible. 

[jdk1963]

jdk..

Listen.. I am not going to be critical.. but if you are in Kherson with this girl.. dude.. I have been down that road and I have probably dealt with the same agency.  I promise you I can help.

Thanks that would be great.

[groovlstk]

She is in fact rather plain looking and the first time we had a video chat she made a point of telling me she made no attempt to pretty herself because she wanted me to know what I was getting.  

What is it then, that attracts you? You don't share a language and can't communicate w/out a translator. She's part of a scam agency. You haven't met her in person - have you at least talked on the phone?

[Sculpto]

She's part of a scam agency.

via PM what i have learned about the BS this gentleman has put up with.. my impression is the crisis is impacting agencies and they are starting to resort to some aggressive tactics to increase revenue.. be careful out there guys.

[jdk1963]

What is it then, that attracts you? You don't share a language and can't communicate w/out a translator. She's part of a scam agency. You haven't met her in person - have you at least talked on the phone?

Before anyone gets carried away.  Yes the need for a translator is a pain.  What attracted me was her overall attitude.  She was not at all like the other women. Now that could have been a scam but I doubt she would make everything she has said up.  Be sure that I am not even close to sending her money or plane tickets.  Of all the women I communicated with she was the one I would want to meet.  The others, not a chance.

[Sculpto]

How do you know it was her words and not the words of a terp trying to make a buck?

[jdk1963]

I have no way of knowing if those were her words.  And after exchanging notes by PM I am beginning to doubt that they were her words.  What seems strange is how completely unlike the other women they were.  On the other hand a million monkeys will eventually bang out Shakespeare.

[Sculpto]

she might be for real and she might not.  The only way to know for sure is to get her away from the agency and use your own terp who works for you.  Anastasia Ash here on the forum has a great reputation and I am sure she can help you get things dialed in.

[Kuna]

jdk,

I think we're all here to help so try not being too sensitive if someone gives you the advice you didn't want to find.

My impression is that you have far too much emotionally invested in this contact before you've even met.  TO me, agenciesand web sites are just methods of makig contact with someone, the main game is when you get on a plane and go to meet her/them.

There will be no guarantees with anyone you're corresponding with - EVER, so after you've found an interesting contact it's time to get on a plane - with a backup plan in case it doesn't go to plan.

Have you traveled to FSU yet or will this be your first trip?  If this will be your first trip it may seem like a HUGE step to take but the biggest hurdle is buying the plane ticket.

The biggest advantage of flying is that you'll know immediately if what you've found is real.  NOTHING can substitute for face to face time and no matter what happens, the agency is out of the equation after meeting.

btw... if the agency is suggesting the english classes it's probably a scam.  You SHOULD NOT pay for English lessons befre meeting.. that would be a stupid move.  NOTHING is real till meeting.

Good luck!

[jdk1963]

jdk,

I think we're all here to help so try not being too sensitive if someone gives you the advice you didn't want to find.

My impression is that you have far too much emotionally invested in this contact before you've even met.  TO me, agenciesand web sites are just methods of makig contact with someone, the main game is when you get on a plane and go to meet her/them.

There will be no guarantees with anyone you're corresponding with - EVER, so after you've found an interesting contact it's time to get on a plane - with a backup plan in case it doesn't go to plan.

Have you traveled to FSU yet or will this be your first trip?  If this will be your first trip it may seem like a HUGE step to take but the biggest hurdle is buying the plane ticket.

The biggest advantage of flying is that you'll know immediately if what you've found is real.  NOTHING can substitute for face to face time and no matter what happens, the agency is out of the equation after meeting.

btw... if the agency is suggesting the english classes it's probably a scam.  You SHOULD NOT pay for English lessons befre meeting.. that would be a stupid move.  NOTHING is real till meeting.

Good luck!

Yes and no on the emotional investment, more than I should have but not so much that I am cutting my wrists.  I am more angry at being scammed than anything else.  And somewhat surprised though really I should not have been.  All the little signs were there.  The agency has not suggested English lessons though they do offer them.  Given the "quality" of the interpreters I would not pay for them.  Given what I know now I am pretty sure I will not be going to Kherson.

I've been to Poland but this would be my first time to the FSU.  I really wanted to write before meeting because I know if I do not which brain will do the thinking!  Finding common interests and values is important.  If that is there then I am not too worried when the the other brain starts thinking.

I am thinking to give Tver Angels a shot.  I have spoken by email with the owner and he seems very nice and helpful.  I had a question about one of the ladies on his site.  He did not give me any BS and he give his unsolicited impressions of her both good and bad.  Additionally we have the "Double Dealers" list so if that does not work out I have a back-up plan when I am in the FSU!! 

[Daveman]

I cast my lot with most of the comments you've received thus far. You can speculate and question the agency situation until the end of time, but if you are interested in this lady, you have to go visit her in person.  Then you can get her completely away from the agency, get a better feel for her, see if she tries to milk you for money, see if her interest is reciprocal (truly - you will know, if you have to ask about that - she isn't interested).

Set up a back up plan because even in the case that she's real and sincere, you may be surprised how quickly your meeting fizzles into nothingness quickly -- even after months of wonderful communication.  Try to keep completely objective and emotionally detached until after you have your first few real dates -- same as if you were dating someone near you.

Set up a B/U plan, then go. 

If it is the agency to which Sculpto refers, or a similar one, you really won't know jack unless you go see for yourself.  SHe could be a plant, or could be a real girl in on a scam, or a real girl caught up in the process that you could actually date and marry after you get her away from the agency.  Again, I think there is little chance to get her away from there without a visit because these leech agencies don't want to (will not) turn loose of those fees involved.

[ECOCKS]

For the life of me, I don't see how these agencies stay in business. Then again, I have had people swear to me that I was "guaranteed" a 25% return, quarterly on an  investment and know that some people keep on believing in these things.

Anyway, read the agency list and pick a good one.

Hang in there!

[Daveman]

Yes and no on the emotional investment, more than I should have but not so much that I am cutting my wrists.  I am more angry at being scammed than anything else.  And somewhat surprised though really I should not have been.  All the little signs were there.  The agency has not suggested English lessons though they do offer them.  Given the "quality" of the interpreters I would not pay for them.  Given what I know now I am pretty sure I will not be going to Kherson.

I've been to Poland but this would be my first time to the FSU.  I really wanted to write before meeting because I know if I do not which brain will do the thinking!  Finding common interests and values is important.  If that is there then I am not too worried when the the other brain starts thinking.

I am thinking to give Tver Angels a shot.  I have spoken by email with the owner and he seems very nice and helpful.  I had a question about one of the ladies on his site.  He did not give me any BS and he give his unsolicited impressions of her both good and bad.  Additionally we have the "Double Dealers" list so if that does not work out I have a back-up plan when I am in the FSU!! 

Weird.. I know the above post wasn't in the thread when I replied up there.. no warning of "new replies", or I'm losing my mind.. which is quite possible... so, you've determined that she or that agency is not your cup of tea.  Good for you. Tver Angels is a good agency to try. The owner is definitely a straight shooter in this endeavor.  The double-dealer back-up plan is probably the best one I've heard yet!     :evil: 

Good luck with it.  would you be comfortable meeting more than one woman?  some have excellent luck that way.. don't write much ahead of time and just go and meet. More like viewing profiles in person, and when you find someone with whom you really click, then focus on her and go back to visit only her. 

I've always gone to visit one woman at a time, and I really have not had any bad luck with that (had that "chemistry" with all of them), but just nothing has led to actually being married.  I did communicate with only ladies who speak English relatively well (with one notable exception of short span brain malfunction), and with about a gazillion prior to finding ones who knocked my socks off with desire to meet. 

What I'm getting at, is that either way there's a lot of leg work involved.  Focus in on what you think will work best for you and then put in the time.

[kievstar]

One thing helping agencies in Ukraine right now is office rents are coming down in price and there is a big supply of girls to translate / write letters in German, Italian, English, and Spanish. So there costs to operate are decreasing and the supply of revenue is up.  Number of women in agencies is up.  Men are writing letters at a high rate. 

The people I know who work in agencies say times are the best ever for profit.

But why men write letters with no immediate plans to visit still amazes me.  Women prefer face to face and telephone over email. 

[jdk1963]

My first choice would be to travel but I've hit a few bumps that have limited my ability to travel.  I do enjoy talking on the phone and chatting online via web cam and prefer that to writing.  I really do not like to write so for me I use that as a test of my interest and also hers.  If I do not like writing her I am certainly not going to maintain interest after we meet regardless of how well we hit it off.
A mans got to know his limitations. - Harry Callahan

[JR]

Accept your limitations and they are yours. Unknown

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