Why I want to marry a younger woman...

[Taz]

I think he just wanted to see if you were paying attention Lily.  

Unfortunately as people get older, they tend to become more cynical about life, relationships and the opposite sex. Perhaps he thinks RW become jaundiced more quickly. Of course we all know you are exempt from that Lily!!!  

My interpretation is that he thinks all the good ones get take by 23 and only the more difficult leftovers remain. I can say that the unmarried 30 year old (or older) RW I met were definitely unmarried for a reason...

[AramisLux]

Taz:

in your interpretation, you expressed quite well what i was trying to say. i guess i was attempting to be tactful about it (something i am trying to do more and more when women are 'around').

Lily: the fact that you asked what i meant with the word 'difficult', almost gives me some encouragement. i like to think that there are places in the world where women might be found who are not too worldly or experienced and have not learned all of the destructive games that lots of aw play when they are dating.

[Taz]

Tact often is a quality that is lost/wasted on many RW I hate to say. Not all of course but many. So now I err on the side of the direct approach. I say what I mean and mean what I say! I don't see anything rough or uncultured but I do get to the point very directly as much as the situation will allow. No point in beating around the bush!

Now Lily is one of our more "experienced" RW members. Since she has more experience, the data I presented doesn't exactly fit as well with her particular stage in life. So does that mean a younger man shouldn't consider a more experienced woman like her? Of course not. You might not live as long but maybe you will be even happier!

Then again most men would rather take their chances with a 20 year younger hottie than one closer to their own age. I never much thought about the age difference for the most part. It wasn't a major thing once the woman was at least in her mid 20's. At least by 25 or 26 they typically have had the character and personality develop so that it is closer to WYSIYG than something that will change over the next few years. So while I never specifically searched for a substantially younger woman, I didn't rule them out. I had a very wide age range of women that I would consider. One major consideration for me initially was a woman be young enough to safely bear a child without high risk of undue complications.

[Mir]

i like to think that there are places in the world where women might be found who are not too worldly or experienced and have not learned all of the destructive games that lots of aw play when they are dating.

Well women and men from any part of the world learn to play games, only the games may be different from what you are used to and you may be-fooled into thinking that they have not learnt to play games.

If you are take this in the context of FSU environment women certainly have a more difficult life there then in the West.
So logically to survive in that environment they need to be smarter and more worldly then in the West.
Maybe it is not the right choice of words but finding a so called innocent woman in FSU is less likely to happen.

[Lily]

the fact that you asked what i meant with the word 'difficult', almost gives me some encouragement. i like to think that there are places in the world where women might be found who are not too worldly or experienced and have not learned all of the destructive games that lots of aw play when they are dating.

Of course I encourage you

The thing is that every woman is different. What would work for one, may not work for another, and someone may show a totally different reaction than the previous two did. There are for sure some common things in their perceptions at the same time, though.

This is not about different places in the world. It happens to be that different even within one community of people.

I wish it would be simplier than that.

[Taz]

What?!?!?!?! All RW are not the same? Even all RW of Moscow for example are not the same?!?!?!?!?!!! OMG, I will have to learn to think on my feet and assess each woman as an individual. I am doomed!

If I understand your words correctly, it means the instruction manual I was writing about how to understand RW/UW will now need millions of chapters. I will have to meet each woman individually and write a chapter dedicated to each one. My life's work is crushed! How dare you Lily ruin my life's work! Shame on you!!!

The heck with it. I'll just write a book about stereotypes. Pick the RW/UW stereotype your wife, girlfriend or potential girlfriend most closely matches and start from there...

Book available soon. At least on a few women. 

[Missouri-Hunter]

Well women and men from any part of the world learn to play games, only the games may be different from what you are used to and you may be-fooled into thinking that they have not learnt to play games.

If you are take this in the context of FSU environment women certainly have a more difficult life there then in the West.
So logically to survive in that environment they need to be smarter and more worldly then in the West.
Maybe it is not the right choice of words but finding a so called innocent woman in FSU is less likely to happen.

That is very appealing to me. I've always hated it when a woman wouldn't form or voice her opinion, and just fell back on things like "Whatever you want to do" or "Whatever you think." I would expect a spouse to be a true partner, and not just leave it all on my shoulders. 

[Turboguy]

Based on this part of the study

The study found that if a man marries a woman who is between 15 and 17 years their junior then his chances of dying at an early age is cut by a fifth.

It looks better to err on the side of closer to a 20 year age gap than a 5 year age gap...

I'll have to make sure my approach factors this in. 

Humm, when I first read this I thought with the age gap my wife and I have that should realy improve my odds of not dying at an early age.   Then I thought about it a bit more and realized my odds off dyeing at an early age are zero.   I already passed that part of my life and missed my chance.

How about this for a suggestion.  If you marry a woman 35 years younger than you the odds are very good you won't die before age 30. 

[AramisLux]

Taz:

i would really love it if you could give me some detail as to what you think keeps some rw over thirty unmarried.

i would guess that it has a lot to do with bad experiences with rm. am i right?

[BC]

Taz:

i would really love it if you could give me some detail as to what you think keeps some rw over thirty unmarried.

i would guess that it has a lot to do with bad experiences with rm. am i right?

.. maybe simple supply/demand?  Obviously the supply of young, good looking women is abundant, or are RM blind?

[Taz]

I wouldn't say RM are blind. They are in a position to cherry pick. In effect, most foreign men get the leftovers that no RM want. That isn't true in all cases but it is a blunt way of looking at it and pretty accurate in my estimation. That doesn't mean there aren't some good women left but they may not be the cream of the crop.

To some extent supply and demand enters into. As you go up in age, there are even less RM that capable of having a family as many might have issue preventing that. They might be alcoholics, drug addicts, unemployed, etc. The ones that are in a better position can more easily pick and choose what RW they want. My personal experience is that RW definitely begin to change psychologically in their late 20's to mid 30's and if unmarried. Many realize that if they aren't married by then, the odds are against them. Of course some person will pipe up and say my woman isn't that way. Good for you mate! I am not saying ALL are.

I think the ones that are left (late 20's to late 30's and never married) definitely have some issues that you will need to deal with. I dated one RW that I lilke alot. Definitely was considering marriage. Never had a major conflict until what turned out the worst possible time in our relationship to have one; when we were going to spend a long period of time together. In the span of about 3 days I was ready to gnaw my arm off to get out of there. Heck, I would have gnawed off someone else's arm too if necessary! I then very quickly saw the part of her character that there was no way I could live with. All thoughts of potential wedlock vanished from my mind. I very quickly understood why this very attractive woman wasn't married already. If you had seen her you'd think I was out of mind for passing her up.

I don't want to besmirch her character but suffice to say, I quickly understood why she was unmarried even though very attractive. For most men she would have been a walking wet dream. In the span of 2 days she became a nightmare for me. I had already met her several times. Prudence told me I should see her one more time before making a final decision about marriage. Thankfully I did that. Everything seemed almost idyllic until one incident and the resulting meltdown. Just another reason to not rush this.

I am going to go out on a limb here with no statistical evidence to back me up. It is SOLELY my personal experience for whatever it is worth. Many RW/UW in that age range I mentioned earlier, have some sort of major issue you need to be aware of. Before the RW here get their panties riding a bit high, this is not about the issues AM may have. For that discourse you have your OWN forums to complain about all the lame, incompetent, impotent, lying, lazy, etc. AM you have met.

This are merely my observations of RW/UW I've met, dated, been involved with, friend been involved with or otherwise observed. They all have some sort of issue that needs to be dealt with. I am not saying the women are to blame just stating that it exists in my experience. There are a lot of women that have severe trust issues. There are women that are very controlling. There are women that have been seriously abused. In general Russian society isn't the kindest in the world with respect to women and by the time they've been beat down, cheated on, taken advantage of, used-abused and thrown away, it takes its toll on them. Again not all are this way but a large portion of the are. I won't even factor in the high maintenance ones. This is not meant as a slam against RW/UW but more of a warning for men to be more observant than they might be because of being distracted by the woman's beauty.

It didn't matter how attractive this woman was I was dating, I couldn't get past her obvious psychological issues while in a relationship. I have no plans to divulge her issues but they were ones I couldn't deal with. We all have our own issues to deal with. After being with her the last few weeks that I was, I really started to appreciate that adage "No matter how beautiful a woman is, there is some man who is tired of ****ing her or dealing with her ***t!"

Again, these are just my observations. Nothing clinical or scientific about it. I'd say about 70-80% of the women I met had something pretty major to deal with. The younger the were, the less issues there were. Or if they had been married definitely less but a whole set of knew ones in addition to having major trust issues too.

[Mars]

There is statistic the married men live longer than unmarried ones. My husband's joke is: it is because life seems longer.

Another version.  Married men live longer than unmarried ones; but they are more willing to die!

[Mars]

I can say that the unmarried 30 year old (or older) RW I met were definitely unmarried for a reason...

I will second this.  And, of course, I realize it probably applies to men as well.

[Sculpto]

.. maybe simple supply/demand?  Obviously the supply of young, good looking women is abundant, or are RM blind?

I think you kinda hit the nail on the head BC.. why would a RM want to get married when there are so many women available?

[Mars]

I wouldn't say RM are blind. They are in a position to cherry pick. In effect, most foreign men get the leftovers that no RM want. That isn't true in all cases but it is a blunt way of looking at it and pretty accurate in my estimation. That doesn't mean there aren't some good women left but they may not be the cream of the crop.

I concur.  Most here are brain washed into the idea that RW/AW are considering men from abroad because they don't like the local choices they have.  But it seems more likely that they simply aren't being chosen by the local men. Exceptions, of course, including all women who post here or are married to men who post here.  :-))

[Sculpto]

Taz.. EVERYONE has issues.  If you love someone enough you deal with them.

[Blues Fairy]

Before the RW here get their panties riding a bit high

I guess I'll be the first one.  :angel:

This are merely my observations of RW/UW I've met, dated, been involved with, friend been involved with or otherwise observed. They all have some sort of issue that needs to be dealt with.
The younger the were, the less issues there were.

Actually the age of 30 is, on average, the time when emotionally intelligent people are more or less done sorting out their childhood issues and getting their act together, psychologically.  I'd say if they have not been married by that time, it's their wisdom, not shortcoming.  My case: a rather difficult and bruising childhood; never married before 33 (a few rocky relationships); meanwhile, a lot of hard work done cleaning out the hangups and transforming myself into the kind of person I wanted to be.  I did not feel ready for commitment and kids before that work was completed.  I suspect there are many people like me, who did not/ do not want to use their partner and kids to compensate for their psychological issues and traumas.  Marriage must be started on sounder foundations, and they take time to build.  

[Taz]

Sculpto - I think you missed the point. I know someone would and you were the first to respond. It is not about people being without issues, these are merely my observations. It is not saying it is BAD or you should IGNORE women that have issues. My point is that you are best to look out for them rather than assume there are none. You may not have encountered them yet or you are too blinded by the (insert whatever tricks your trigger) view of her bumpers, headlights, ...

While lust is important, I don't let it overcome my judgment. I've dated enough "hot" women in the US and abroad that I don't have a "kid in the candy store" mentality. A key differentiator for me is NOT her physical beauty. It will typical whither with time. I want a woman that is at least reasonably attractive but with a wonderful personality who happens to think I am the best man in the world(for her) and not too jaded to believe she has actually found me. Fortunately my experience has shown there are more of these type women in the FSU than in the US or Canada. I am not a loser and the people from this board that know me in IRL know that. I am well educated, articulate, caring, loyal and definitely appreciative and respectful of the RW/UW I meet. I am not hideous ugly and I take good care of myself. I have the financial ability to continue this pursuit without issue and take good care of my future woman.

I have just tired of the US dating scene and being told I should worship a BBW like she is a goddess. Sure, I'll worship her as a goddess, the goddess of PORK! I am not a chubby chaser and never have been. Fortunately there are not a lot of chubs in the FSU. Quite honestly I feel very sad for the chubs there. They look so out of place. Nothing against them, just not my type. Maybe I am shallow as I don't want a chub. That is my choice. When I was larger due to almost dying in the FSU, no normal sized AW where interested in me when I was a BHM! BHM - is a term I've coined to counteract the BBW. BHM= Big Handsome Man! I should worship her largeness but it wasn't a 2-way street. I was simply fat but she was a BBW! Never mind I was fat because of an illness... She was fat because she couldn't stop stuffing food down her pie-hole!

If you love someone enough you will deal with a lot of sh!t. I know that I was married but some stuff you won't deal with. Sometimes what you see when you are first dating is the tip of the iceberg. I don't need to see the whole iceberg to know that I don't want to deal with it. For me there are key issues that I won't tolerate. For example I won't tolerate the following:

Smoking
Alcoholism
Drug abuse
Infidelity
In-law meddling
Terrible stepchildren

Those force an immediate DQ! Other are not immediate but I will reflect upon them and decide if they are something I can truly tolerate. Usually if there is one issue from one of my lower tiered concerns, it won't be an automatic DQ, combine a few of them though and I'll really need to reflect on what the overall relationship means to me. For example combine nagging, lazy and sarcastic and it is a sure bet I won't stay with here. Either one of them on their own I could deal with to some extent but combine them and they create a potent cocktail of doom for the relationship.

An additional point is love can't always conquer all. I am too realistic for that. It goes a long way but it can't do everything. Additionally your eyes need to be wide open until you get to that point of deep love and don't close them even then. I am very tolerant of the women I love and their faults. I can accept a lot but somethings will drive me away. I want a woman I can love up close, not from a distance. I want a woman I can love every day, not just from time to time...

Mars- I think you meant to say RW/UW but you typed RW/AW... AW don't want anybody but Brad Pitt and his checkbook!

So I'll look for the better RW that are leftover. Sure, were down to the dregs but better than some of what is floating at the top in America. You know what they say dontcha? The cream float to the top but so does $#!t...

[Taz]

I guess I'll be the first one.  :angel:

Actually the age of 30 is, on average, the time when emotionally intelligent people are more or less done sorting out their childhood issues and getting their act together, psychologically.  I'd say if they have not been married by that time, it's their wisdom, not shortcoming.  My case: a rather difficult and bruising childhood; never married before 33 (a few rocky relationships); meanwhile, a lot of hard work done cleaning out the hangups and transforming myself into the kind of person I wanted to be.  I did not feel ready for commitment and kids before that work was completed.  I suspect there are many people like me, who did not/ do not want to use their partner and kids to compensate for their psychological issues and traumas.  Marriage must be started on sounder foundations, and they take time to build.  

So by your own admission (and I respect that by the way) you had issues as described earlier. The difference is you actually took the initiative to change yourself. Many women men don't. I was once 370 lbs. I didn't set on my arse and complain about the crappy hand I'd been dealt thanks to an illness. Heck no! I bounced back and I am much slimmer than I was before I got sick. I have lost over 150 pounds! Weight was my biggest issue to some women, but not many RW. They saw inside that roley-poley guy and appreciated who I was and what I had to share.

I agree marriage must be on a firmer foundation. I applaud you for working out your problems. The rocky relationships didn't help and that is my point. The more bad relationships people have, the more issues they have to deal with. People need to be ready to get married. Many aren't...

[Blues Fairy]

I applaud you for working out your problems. The rocky relationships didn't help and that is my point. The more bad relationships people have, the more issues they have to deal with.

On the contrary, they did help a great deal since they gave me insight.  My point is, time makes one an emotional wreck and another a stronger, more mature person.  But it takes time to evolve either way.  Not married by 30 does not automatically mean there are issues - it may mean that there have been issues but the person took time to deal with them.  And kudos to her(him) for not burdening other people, especially kids, with her issues and sorting them out on her own.

[Sculpto]

Blues..   

Taz.. if I was as judgmental as you I would totally rip you a new one for your post.  I will only say one thing.  If I was a woman, and had any clue about what you just revealed, I would classify you as damaged goods and someone with some real problems.  Best of luck mate. 

[Taz]

Show me where I am judgmental? Observations are different from being judgmental. I know what is important to me. I know exactly what I am looking for. I am not ashamed to show any woman I've dated (or will date) anything I've ever written on this board. I am pretty balanced person. I don't have knee-jerk reactions. I don't think of people as stereotypes. I treat each person as an individual and I am cognizant of their likely similarities to people of their same culture, age, sex, etc.

BF makes my point at the same time she tried to say it is counter. If you subscribe to people starting from a position of purity, then negative encounters can create issues were there weren't any before. Of course it will require time to heal. If you have a man that beats you every day or cheats on you every day, of course you will need time to heal from that. If you didn't encounter these situations, then most likely wouldn't need time to heal. I think that is a reasonable assumption.

I don't think people need to be into their 30's for their character to be formed. Most of the woman I have been involved with, as well as my male friends, their character was pretty much defined by their mid 20's. Very little evolving took place after that EXCEPT in the face of a traumatic experience.

If we accept BF's premise that people aren't mature until their 30's, then nobody should marry until their 30's. Unfortunately nature says otherwise. Pregnancy is a much greater risk for women in their mid 30's. If people don't mature until their 30's, there is very little time to find a mate, create a stable relationship and bear children.

Also did I say AUTOMATICALLY or anything like that, that a woman in her 30's has issues? If you read carefully I said that the risk goes up. I said many, nor did I say it is a rule. I also said it is my personal experience. Sure a tough experience can make a person stronger or wreck someone else. Given a choice, in many ways I'd rather my kids not have that kind of experience any more than necessary. Some people are crushed by adversity, other rise above it. I am the latter, not the former. I still don't want my kids to deal with it nor do I want a woman who had to live through it all her life either even if it didn't crush her. The effects are typically she will have lost a lot of her softness and tenderness. I've met enough women like that in my life. I've managed to retain my tenderness and kindness in spite of what I've experienced in my life. Most women wouldn't be that way if they experienced what I have. Neither would most men.

As some of you might have read my posts about JD. He is a perfect example of an AM who definitely has issues that most women would find a hindrance to having a relationship with him. Men in their 40's who have never been married are that way for a reason. It is pretty normal for people to be married in their early 20's in the US and FSU. If it is much later than that, it is important to find out why. JD was continually asked by EVERY RW/UW why wasn't he ever married. He started looking for RW when he was in his late 30's. Even then it was a very strange thing. Most RW who haven't been married by their 30's are considered old maids. Definitely not a positive thing and there is obviously a reason for that stereotype in Russia. While I don't generally follow stereotypes, they are often based in some sort of fact even if not to the extent the stereotype might lead you to believer. There was a large enough representative group of people with those similar traits for the stereotype to evolve. Does it apply to all people in that group. Likely not BUT it might be worth understanding the implications of that stereotype.

Sculpto - I didn't attack you so I don't appreciate your comment about me being "damaged goods". I just said you missed the point. Nothing bad about you or any attack you on. People can attack me all they want. I have a thick skin.  As the old adage says "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". I know my faults but being judgmental or intolerant isn't amongst them. As for luck, I've never relied on it. Luck is a very fickle mistress. I prefer talent, perseverance, education, experience and planning instead. Of course having a few good friends isn't a bad thing either. 

I was married to a RW so I am not coming from a position of no experience. The reason we are divorced has nothing to do with my character. She still holds me in very high esteem. Unlike most men do after marriage, I didn't just kick her to the curb when we divorced. I stood by her and helped her with her education. I helped her when she was down. Almost anytime she had a real need, I was there to give her a hand or financial support. Gosh my character must be terrible... We still respect each other and have a good relationship. Not a lot of men can say that about their ex's and even fewer can say that about their Russian ex's. Just for the record, we've had discussions about the psychological problems of RW and AW. Her experience pretty much matches my own. Not all RW have issues but a lot do. Take it for what it is worth. YMMV.

[ambach123]

According to what psychologists tell us, ones personality is developed by early teens, and it is very difficult to change anything after that.

Psychothrapists for adults don't change personalities, they make the person accept the person's personality, whatever it is.

Just like Taz I have also found that RW have major trust issues.

Just a small example, my telephone has blocked caller ID; I called a girl in Russia after exchanging many emails. After the conversation she wanted to call me back; why? she wanted to make sure that I was calling from USA. She did for ten seconds.

I can give so many examples when these women have major trust issues. There was a thread here that one RW wanted a written agreement that the AM will financially support her duing her 90 days on K 1. The advice given to him was that he should pass on her; I am not sure the next one he finds would be any better.
I thought that they will eventually learn to trust, I did not see any evidence of that.

[Misha]

Just like Taz I have also found that RW have major trust issues.

Well, in some cases, I would say the lack of trust is warranted and has nothing to do with trust issues 

[Sculpto]

Taz.. I threw the stone of judgement at you because of your rant about overweight women in the US.  Its not that I don't agree with you, in fact I do, especially the goddess thing.. its gone too far.  But, its not something that needs to be verbalized.. just makes a guy look bad.

There are some real sweet ladies that happen to be fat.  My Mom is one of them.

Now, if we are going to talk about trust issues.. that is definitely another story.. it does seem those issues are real and very powerful.  I just spent the weekend in Tijuana with friends going to a concert.  The conversation eventually wound its way around to relationships.  The women totally went off about the men.. as they were doing it.. I felt like i was back in Ukraine listening to my friends there use exactly the same language about men.  Liars, drunks, cheaters, lazy etc...

So, why should WM expect that ladies are suddenly going to change their views on how men behave just because we come along?  Its ridiculous to even consider.

Ambach.. I can't stop myself.. we ALL KNOW you haven't grown since your teens, you have made that really obvious many times.. but please don't try to include the rest of us in our generalizations.  some people spend their whole lives growing and evolving.