The Dreaded WOVO

[KraftSport5034]

Ok, in a few months I am planning to head to the FSU. Not sure when, but probably fall. Anyway, I have a question ( sorry for all of the dumb ones) for you experienced travelers out there. Let's say you have been ( as I have) "mining "a certain area in the Ukraine or in Russia and have been communicating with 3-4 women in each area. How on earth do you go there and not LIE ( I'm a lousy liar) about not seeing other women? I have no pending "business" in Siberia or the Ukraine and I speak all of 15 words of Russian.  Surely these ladies, as pragmatic and sensible as they are cannot expect one to drop a few grand on the CHANCE that the one woman they meet will be "the one" without having some backup. ( Like they are putting their eggs into one basket anyway). I'm sure we have all had our "Whoops" experiences at Starbucks or similar- where after a bunch of emails, phone calls, chats etc you finally decide to meet ( at Starbucks) and Whoops! The pictures are a ...little outdated ( by 30 lbs or so) or Whoops! No Chemistry ( and therefore, no biology!)or Whoops! Things simply didnt work out. No harm, no foul, you both drink your lattes ( or juices) and politely wish each other well ( and leave!). Whats the downside- not much- a few bucks for coffees and bagels, maybe. Some gas, and yes some time. but generally little or nothing to stress on.Now....  Imagine going through all of this , spending a small pile of cash ,  breaking your gluteus travelling across the world and ...Whoops?
Not for me, but like I said Im a crappy liar. One would have to be crazy to take that kind of chance, but it seems on this board a lot of guys do that. ( Brave Souls)
Maybe I oughta just show up and give a call" Hi I'm passing through , would you like to have dinner...?"
Whoops...

[Blues Fairy]

Your best bet is not to volunteer this information and hope they won't ask.  If they do, however, do your best to lie with a straight face, unless you sense intuitively that they won't be offended by the truth (and you 100% trust your intuition), or you simply don't care if they be offended (i.e. the "whoops" moment has already taken place).  It also helps to plan your trip logistically so that your dates have no outright suspicions. 

[Mars]

In pre-meeting e-mails, I tell the women that I simply will not talk about other women whether past, present or future and that I similarly won't ask them about men. 

So far it has worked perfectly in that no woman has asked me about other women . . . although I am sure they know other women are being met.  But I am dating the over 40 women, so it might be a different situation with younger ladies; I can't speak to that.

I did have a terrible experience just this evening however, when one of my favorite ladies overtook me from behind (walking) and squeezed my elbow when she passed me.  Unfortunately on my other arm was another woman!!  I suspect it is finished with lady one and I am pretty disheartened by it.  Don't know if I should send her a message and try to BS around it, or just flat out say I was sorry she saw me, or just gracefully say goodbye - - - or what!!

I had spent the morning and early afternoon with lady one and now was with lady two in the evening.

This was a quite unbeliveable experience in a city of nearly 3 million people.  What are the odds of this happening?

[Chicagoguy]

Kraft,

A few times I would meet in Moscow and then travel to another city then return to meet another.

Mars,

Unbelievable !

[Sculpto]

Your best bet is not to volunteer this information and hope they won't ask.  If they do, however, do your best to lie with a straight face, unless you sense intuitively that they won't be offended by the truth (and you 100% trust your intuition), or you simply don't care if they be offended (i.e. the "whoops" moment has already taken place).  It also helps to plan your trip logistically so that your dates have no outright suspicions. 

BF.. totally not picking on you.. but seems I took a big ration of crap for advocating the same thing.  So, I am curious, if you feel it is ok for the man to do so.. why should a man expect anything less than lies from any woman he dates?

[gemini]

Your best bet is not to volunteer this information and hope they won't ask.  If they do, however, do your best to lie with a straight face, unless you sense intuitively that they won't be offended by the truth (and you 100% trust your intuition), or you simply don't care if they be offended (i.e. the "whoops" moment has already taken place).  It also helps to plan your trip logistically so that your dates have no outright suspicions.  

I agree, every woman wants to be unique. To guess about other women is different from to know. It is acceptable and understandable to say: I don't want to talk about other women. It is unforgivable to  say: You are just one of the many. It is the same situation if a guy go to a first date with AW and tell her about all the women he had before. Would  you consider it is honesty or foolishness? You just press in time in FSU and all things occur faster but feelings are the same.  

[Blues Fairy]

BF.. totally not picking on you.. but seems I took a big ration of crap for advocating the same thing.  So, I am curious, if you feel it is ok for the man to do so.. why should a man expect anything less than lies from any woman he dates?

There are lies and lies. 
Would you despise a woman for not telling you if she's meeting with other guys on a trip to your country? Especially if you foolishly pry for this information?

[Sculpto]

There are lies and lies. 
Would you despise a woman for not telling you if she's meeting with other guys on a trip to your country? Especially if you foolishly pry for this information?

I can not say how I would feel about it now because it hasn't happened.. but back in my college days I had a GF from Chicago.. we weren't serious during the school year but over the summer decided to be.. she came to visit, and i had to make all kinds of promises to her parents, and after she arrived when she told me she was going to visit some other friends that happened to be guys and disappeared for three days.. well.. that was the end of it.  If she had told me before she came I never would have invited her.  It was a betrayal. 

so, I think the bottom line really has to depend on what expectations a guy has created with the lady.  If she thinks he is only coming to see her.. then thats what he should do.. but if that is not his plan and he has given her no reason to think the she is his exclusive interest I don't see any reason to hide it.  But then again even before I went to see "A" I told her that if we didn't click I would still hope we would be friends and that she could help me with getting around and so on.. and if we were just friends she could help me find a GF.  She agreed to all that before I even bought my ticket.. in the end we clicked so it didn't get tested.  But, I think she would have if we ended up not clicking with each other.

I told the back up ladies I was going to Moscow for business and IF I had time I would call them.  They usually replied if they weren't busy they would meet me for a chai, which I took to mean.. don't hold your breath.  Afterwards I did send messages apologizing for not calling and I am still in contact with one of them.. trying to help her find a man.. she is lovely.. 27 with a 6 year old boy and she does know now my whole story and said she suspected it but understood why I said what I did.  Its easy to use that excuse in Moscow or St. Pete.. would be a lot less so in smaller more remote places.

[Gator]

How on earth do you go there and not LIE.

Don't LIE.  Just say you do not want to talk about it, and change the subject.  If she questions you again, say you do not want to talk about it.  If she questions you a third time, ignore her and instead ask "How's your mama?"  By now, she knows.  If she questions you a fourth time,  I suggest that you move on. 

These women know the game.  Always be a gentleman.  Do not ask her about other men.  Just say, "A woman as beautiful as you has many men trying to meet you!  Thank you for giving me some of your limited time.  After we meet, everything could change.  I hope so, and I believe it will.  However, for now, I do not want to celebrate before it happens."

Then add, "If all goes well I plan to return to meet you and only you.  Perhaps we can take a trip to Turkey or Morocco together?!  That would be wonderful.  Have you been to Morocco?"

BTW, do not expect a lot of sex if she knows you are meeting other women.

Ok, in a few months I am planning to head to the FSU. Not sure when, but probably fall. Anyway, I have a question ( sorry for all of the dumb ones) for you experienced travelers out there. Let's say you have been ( as I have) "mining "a certain area in the Ukraine or in Russia and have been communicating with 3-4 women in each area.

Forget everthing I have just wrote.  It won't work.   Why?  You have too much time before you travel.  Conversations will become more serious.  Expectations heighten!  Some RW will expect you to see just one RW.  And some RW will drop out - your decision sometimes.  Hers the other times.

In the end, everything is sorted out. 
 

 

[MatryoshkaMan]

I am grappling with this very topic now. I have 5 women all running in the parrallel corresponsance lineup right now. 4 in russia and 1 in ukraine. The russian women - 1 in rostov, 1 in st. pete, 1 in Novosibiirsk, 1 in Vladivostok - talk about a challenge! I have no idea how I am going to sort this out. I think the meet many thing works if you have just had a few casual emails like hey you are kind of cool, next time I am in russia I will look you up type. Then its no problem to tell them straight up that you are also meeting other women, it would be totally understandable BUT the problem is (as I find it) after a few weeks of correspondence feelings start to creep into the dialogue, a kiss here a hug there, and pretty soon you are crossing into WOVO teritory but you don't know who the "O" is yet! My god it would be so cool to be able to spend time with each one without worrying about the ramifications of the other womens feelings. If only! This is the classic challenge and soon I am going to have to figure out how to deal with it. Hopefully I shorten my list BUT I have now learned that until you meet you virtually know nothing about the girl! So how is it possible to make a trip just for her!!! You either have a back-up plan or you don't. If you do and have to deploy it there is a lot of fanncy footwork to be done, like hey guess what I just happened to be in russia and want to see you. Can you fly to Moscow tommorrow? Talk about a excersize in mental gymnastics. I guess if this eas easier the planes headed east to the FSU would be jam packed with men looking for love.

[MatryoshkaMan]

Damn Gator just popped my bubble land fantasy thoughts...see there is this certain lady in Minsk with an out freaking rageous body that I cannot live another second without and she is teasing me with it everytime we chat. I ask "are they real" and she replies "you wiill know only when you get here"...stuff like that. Queen of tease. Well the point is I don't see a future with her but would love to drop by Minsk and say "hi" if you know what I mean!! This is getting more complicated by the moment!

[Gator]

I am grappling with this very topic now. I have 5 women all running in the parrallel corresponsance lineup right now. 4 in russia and 1 in ukraine. The russian women - 1 in rostov, 1 in st. pete, 1 in Novosibiirsk, 1 in Vladivostok - talk about a challenge!

You must be using Elena's Models.   

It is worse than you can imagine.  Just count the number of time zones between these four.

Sounds like two trips to me.  1 - Ukraine and St. Piter.  2-  Siberia and East.  I suggest that you focus on women in one of these.  Or pay for 1-2 to fly to meet you for a few days in Moscow.

see there is this certain lady in Minsk with an out freaking rageous body that I cannot live another second without

When you make it to the FSU, you will realize that such bodies are everywhere.  You do not have to go to Minsk.  One of the reasons why we do this.

[Lee08]

I would agree with a couple of things by two different posters.
Don't volunteer this information, but don't lie about it either if a woman asks. If you try to change the subject a clever woman will know the truth anyway so it's best to be honest from the very beginning. I think a woman would have more respect for a honest man than one that lies or runs around in circles.

I feel fortunate that I was never in this situation. I narrowed my choices down to one woman before I made the trip and I went without any kind of "backup plan". If it didn't work out I was just going to do some sight seeing and then come home.
We hit it off and now she is my wife.

Good luck!

[GQBlues]

I'm not really sure what the problem is...

You either have it in you to visit different women in FSU without having to lie as to your intentions and plans, or you don't. Why complicate things more than they need it to be? If planning on meeting multiple women and having to resort to any type of lying, why start a  relationship, potentially a marriage, based on lies and deception?

If you are affording everyone, yourself included, a chance to meet in person just to personalize the acquaintance and find out in real time and real world if there's a potential for growth ~ how can that be anything but an equitable opportunity for all? I'd rather doll out the extra dough and grind through this exercise, than make a mistake, or worst, invest more time and money because I committed myself based on photos, faith or guilt.

Dating in FSU is really no different than dating here. RWs no more like competition than AWs do ~ BUT, you aren't exactly dating anyone YET right now - you haven't met, you haven't made promises (at least hopefully anyway - how could you?). If I travelled to NY to meet women to potentially explore a relationship with ~ I would rather do it and meet as many women as I can, than meet only one.

Have any of you gone out with anyone on your first date with the expressed intent of diving straight into a deep commitment in your lives before? How is doing this in FSU any different? Or, are you a one-date-long-term relationship kind of guy?

If you're the type that can hone into one woman you don't know and determined she's the one for you sight unseen, then don't even begin contemplating 'backups' and WMVM. Backups to me is a cop-out. Unless the 'back-up' is taking in sights and enjoying the country if things didn't come right with the one woman you came to meet. The very least these women deserve are respect and honesty, and guess what ~ so do you. I know this runs counter to what many advocate, nor does it mean it doesn't have its supporter's merit, but that's just me and just another perspective to this whole thing. Just one opinion/method/perspective in the sea of plenty.

[MatryoshkaMan]

Gator says "When you make it to the FSU, you will realize that such bodies are everywhere.  You do not have to go to Minsk"

Ummm...this is what could be waiting for me in Minsk...



And I am a vetran of 3 trips. I had to go to a chiropracter when I came home from 3 solid weeks in Moscow. My head was like that girl in the excercist, it had 360 degrees of rotation by the end of the trip...all without my wife suspecting a thing...

[JR]

Everyone says they want honesty...so I say be honest. If they can't handle honesty then perhaps they are not for you. Their response will have a lot to do with how you have interacted with them up to that point. If you have "lead them on" telling them "how special" they are then they would have a good reason to be pissed at you. But if you have only exchanged general info and are setting up a first "coffee" date then what do they have to be upset about?

[ambach123]

I am grappling with the same thing.

I chose one city, Ekaterinburg, somewhat out of the way, they don't see many foreigners there. I have four women there that I am communicating with. I want to keep it light until we meet, which should be in August. Ekaterinburg has no agencies; it appears there is no bridal business there.

It is very difficult to arrange a trip into different cities in one visit.

If you don't become too thick, neither party would have much expectations. The problem may come in if you lead them on before the meeting.

Another problem, each of them wants to " show " me their city. I don't know if I have much interest in the city.

[Gator]

I chose one city, Ekaterinburg, somewhat out of the way, they don't see many foreigners there. I have four women there that I am communicating with.

Chapter IV?  Anything different in your Act this time?

It is very difficult to arrange a trip into different cities in one visit.

I found that the easiest way to go WMVM. 

If you don't become too thick, neither party would have much expectations. The problem may come in if you lead them on before the meeting.

You are getting smarter.  Talk about marriage and prenups before you meet someone can exaggerate expectations.

Another problem, each of them wants to " show " me their city. I don't know if I have much interest in the city.

You will visit the same venue 2-3 times.  The babushka collecting tickets  will snitch on you. 

[MatryoshkaMan]

Love those darling babuskas in the museums who ask you for the ticket for taking pictures, priceless

[Gator]

And I am a vetran of 3 trips. I had to go to a chiropracter when I came home from 3 solid weeks in Moscow. My head was like that girl in the excercist, it had 360 degrees of rotation by the end of the trip...all without my wife suspecting a thing...

Without more info, this is open to interprataion.  

One possibility is that you were not considering marriage and misled the RW you met.  If so, that makes you a First Degree ST.  Good Ol' Boy will have some choice words for you.

Another possible explanation is that you were on business and just looking.  Now that you are divorced, you will become serious (except for going 4 days out of your way to meet a prickteaser).  I don't have experience with professional daters and scam artists, yet I would think they tend to be teasers.

[Mars]

If you don't become too thick, neither party would have much expectations. The problem may come in if you lead them on before the meeting.

Far from the truth.  You only have to exchange one e-mail with many of these women; and then they will become peed if they suspect you are meeting anyone else.  It is just an unreal situation with them.  It is all made worse by WM who glorify these women.  Even the almost ugly ones think they are beautiful after reading the groveling and defending that goes on with WM trying to woo them.

There are very good reasons why most of these women cannot find husbands in their own countries.  The local men don't want them; beautiful or not.

[ambach123]

That is true that most of these women, at least those over thirty years old, freely admit that they are not marriageable in their own country. They have no other options but to look for a foreign husband. Even those without any children.
Why that is, I would not know.

[kievstar]

Hi Ambach,  I wish you good luck.  I am happy to see you did not go Czech agency. 

[facetrock]

  Ambach my experience is different from yours. Beautiful women over 30 in the FSU dont seem to have any trouble finding a man to marry. They also dont have a problem with finding a man to date. But some will tell you this when you communicate with them. I prefer not to believe them. Hope you dont either.

[ambach123]

As it often happens, at least two of these women have offered to meet me at the Airport, and book hotel for me.
At this time I would decline, I want to go there without any preference to anyone until we meet. Low expectations.