Going down memory lane

[Ooooops]

Oh yeah, days without Internet...   I don't know how did we survive back then...   Thanks to Mr. Gore for inventing it!       I left in January 1993, so for the next few years it was snail-mail communications with my family in friends back there.   Chances of them getting my letter by mail were pretty much the same if I just threw that letter out of the window - 50/50.       But we were younger and that's still better than Instant Messaging.   

[kievstar]

I think Turboguy made some good points of it being more difficult 10 years ago as ability to find hotels / apartments, airline flights, and obtain visa was more difficult.  Also, the ability to contact women cheaply with skype is a big advantage.  Another thing is the knowledge people can learn from others successes and failures.  How many men would know about odd number of flowers without the internet.

Regarding Ambach he is not a bad guy.  He does want to get married IMO.   I think he is important to RWD as he does provide interesting views and approaches.  Do I like his approach no.  But people did not like my approach either.  How many people fly to a foreign country for a 6 hour meeting and flew home the next day.  A meeting with no personal emails or phone calls exchanged in advance.  Only a couple emails through an agency before hand.  But as we all know girls do not read emails in the agencies.  My email was more to learn about any non negotiable I have which an agency worker will know about their girl.  This is how I met my wife.   I even posted a pre trip report on RWD before meeting her.  Not much interest in my report so I did not continue it. 

Hi Ambach, it does not surprise me that many RW divorce, K-1's cancelled, and RW on EM in USA looking for men.  IMO 90% or more of AM who marry RW are out of their league or loser men.  I also think 90% of AM who marry AW are loser men.  This gets into why it is easy to marry a RW and have a longterm marriage.  The quality of RW to quality foreign men visiting is great.  It is in the man's advantage.

I see to many men trying to rush into marriage with a RW.  This process can take between 0 and 10 years. Need to makes sure the marriage smells, feels, and looks right for the man and woman before marriage.  There is no rules on when this can happen.  But need to make sure it happens.

[ambach123]

Thanks Taz, Turboguy and Kievstar for sticking up for me. I may have different opinions but we all do, and that is what life is about.

Ours is a society built on mutual trust; I don't claim that we are all honest people but majority of us are. You trust the other guy unless proven otherwise, that is how our system works. In FSU, I found out soon enough that it is the other way around. You don't trust anyone unless proven otherwise. The FSU women told me themselves that this is the way they are raised.

Look at the prepondenrance of divorces among the AM and RW marriages, and the EM full of divorced RW looking for men. I think it is unethical and immoral of RW to use an AM for the purpose of coming here and then upgrade, but that is what they do, at leat a large number of them.

As we all know RW are experts in showing you love. Can you tell if it is real or for ulterior motives?

Kievstar, do you mean 90% of the people here married to RW are losers? I don't think they think that way.

[Ooooops]

I'm sorry, guys, but sometimes when I read advises given here I think that they are addressed to mentally challenged people...         If a man is so naive or so stupid that he can't figure out that "All Russian women are family oriented" or "The RW are devoid of any moral or ethical dilemmas about it. Their upbringing teaches them that there is nothing unethical in life" is a broad generalization then how can he be successful in his future family life?   Will he have to run to RWD for advise every day? 

[kievstar]

Hi Ambach, my 90% is only for men that I have met in person or could make a reasonable judgment based on other information.  RWD men could be the 10%.    Ambach, your not in the 90% or 10% as I do not know you.  Because I have a feeling your different in person than how you write.  Most of us are. 

[ambach123]

Americans are very trusting of each other, that is a broad generalization, but that is true. ( Bernard Medoff took in 50 billion dollars from people who trusted him). Our society is built on this. In general we have a conscience, if we do something wrong to someone. I am not saying that we are all angels, but some of these things we grew up with. Most choose to adhere to them, of course some don't.

In FSU, it is the opposite, people don't trust each other, women don't think anything in using AM as stepping stone for their goals. Of course there are exceptions but that does not change the general impression.

I believe this may be because of any lack of religious upbriging in FSU. In USA, most people have some kind of faith which they practice. Almost all religions teach you human decency and not harm your fellow man ( or woman).

[Ade]

Americans are very trusting of each other, that is a broad generalization, but that is true. ( Bernard Medoff took in 50 billion dollars from people who trusted him). Our society is built on this. In general we have a conscience, if we do something wrong to someone. I am not saying that we are all angels, but some of these things we grew up with. Most choose to adhere to them, of course some don't.

In FSU, it is the opposite, people don't trust each other, women don't think anything in using AM as stepping stone for their goals. Of course there are exceptions but that does not change the general impression.

And how did you form this general impression of yours?

I believe this may be because of any lack of religious upbriging in FSU. In USA, most people have some kind of faith which they practice. Almost all religions teach you human decency and not harm your fellow man ( or woman).

  Just too funny, extremely naive and simplistic.

[Gator]

Hi Ambach, it does not surprise me that many RW divorce, K-1's cancelled, and RW on EM in USA looking for men.  IMO 90% or more of AM who marry RW are out of their league or loser men.  I also think 90% of AM who marry AW are loser men. 

This is another good post, as I have come to expect from you.  However, your statistics have me scratching my head.


You contend that 90% of married AM are “losers.”  Considering that 58% of white American men 18 or older are married, your statement paints a really bad picture of the quality of American men in general.  By deduction, you contend that half of all adult American men are “losers.”

What are the possible explanations for this statistic:

1.   It is a fabricated anti-American assertion reflecting that Kievstar and Seriously Jaded are one and the same, i. e., a duplicate membership. 

2.   Most AM are “winners” (a reasonable assumption considering our prominent albeit diminishing status internationally); however, the mere act of marrying a woman and giving up one’s independence is such an act of stupidity that “winners” automatically are degraded to “losers.” 

3.   While 90% of married AM are losers, 90% of their wives are winners, thus balancing the equation for the American population.    

So which is it?

[groovlstk]

In FSU, it is the opposite, people don't trust each other, women don't think anything in using AM as stepping stone for their goals. Of course there are exceptions but that does not change the general impression.

Ambach, I'll leave it to others to argue about the substance of your sweeping generalizations, but I have a question. Given your extraordinary pessimism about Russian people, what in God's name are you doing looking for a wife there?

It's amusing to see embittered guys here post about how horrible FSU people are because of Stalin, Soviet upbringing, propaganda, no religion, corruption, endless poverty, etc. etc. - but every one of these guys keeps coming back for more.

Also (and this is not a personal attack), you have a penchant for calling guys who don't subscribe to your views on RW as "naive" - but who is really naive here? If you truly believe these women are all mercenary do you expect to somehow find a needle in a haystack - a virgin living in a brothel?

[Chicagoguy]

Lets go back to what civi68 was saying. When I first went over in 1992 it wasn't for women. I never really saw any who were looking and I know I wasn't. I went back on a somewhat regular basis after that and I never really saw things get moving until the Internet.

Then the agencies and discussion groups added a new and better dimension. People arriving now have no idea how much more difficult it was to travel and arrange meetings in the beginning.

[Misha]

I think by the wrong choices he makes, he keeps meeting the wrong kind of women which gives him a wrong impression. RW are definitely not all angels.

Let's see, what was the alleged reason that Ambach gave for dumping his first fiancée? Oh yes, she asked to go to a local Russian Orthodox church every few weeks in the future when living with Ambach in the United States  Yes, women wanting to go to church are certainly the "wrong" kind of women and certainly no angels  :evil:

[Kuna]

I believe this may be because of any lack of religious upbriging in FSU.

HAVE YOU ACTUALLY BEEN TO RUSSIA OR UKRAINE?

1. An aspect of Moscow that I LOVED on my recent trip was seeing so many people in church on virtually any day and at virtually any time of day.  I'm not just talking about old babushkas about to knock on heavens door - I was also surprised to see many young men AND women in church at lunchtimes etc.

2.  In my church here in Oz (RU Orthodox) we still see Russian immigrants getting baptized as they have lived life without receiving the blessing of baptism (for whatever reason) but have lived life with faith.  Now they are in Australia they choose to confirm their faith through baptism (young and old people btw).

3. Most people I know in Ukraine have a lifelong faith in their religious beliefs, including my wife.  A lasting memory for me of my wife came from a casual comment I made when passing the Golden Dome Cathedral in Kiev (first trip).  I noticed her hesitate slightly as we walked past and I asked if she wanted to go inside.  The lasting memory was her reaction, energy and distinct change in attitude whilst inside and for the rest of the day...  I guess she isn't one of the unwashed masses you were referring to???

4. The suppression of the all religions during the communist years obviously didn't "stamp out" Christianity - in case you missed all the RU Orthodox Churches virtually every town and city.  

5. Have you actually seen RU Orthodox Churches outside of Russia???  Have you noticed the congregation tend to be Russians, even those strange Russian who immigrated 30, 50 and more years ago?  

Mannnn... you're in la-la land.  You have no idea!  

I thought you were looking for victims in Budapest next anyway???




Misha,  don't forget the first fiance was "too religious" for him... but the next one was "the one" because they worshiped in a mosque together.  I've lost count of the instances of exploitation this guy has implied...  but one thing is for sure, for one of the "mega-rich" he's one of the dullest knives in the draw!

[Misha]

Misha,  don't forget the first fiance was "too religious" for him... but the next one was "the one" because they worshiped in a mosque together.  I've lost count of the instances of exploitation this guy has implied...  but one thing is for sure, for one of the "mega-rich" he's one of the dullest knives in the draw!

Yes, I had almost forgotten about Ambach's religious epiphany. And, did Ambach ever give a reason for dumping the second one? Or the third?

[Simoni]

1. An aspect of Moscow that I LOVED on my recent trip was seeing so many people in church on virtually any day and at virtually any time of day.  I'm not just talking about old babushkas about to knock on heavens door - I was also surprised to see many young men AND women in church at lunchtimes etc.

2.  In my church here in Oz (RU Orthodox) we still see Russian immigrants getting baptized as they have lived life without receiving the blessing of baptism (for whatever reason) but have lived life with faith.  Now they are in Australia they choose to confirm their faith through baptism (young and old people btw).

3. Most people I know in Ukraine have a lifelong faith in their religious beliefs, including my wife.  A lasting memory for me of my wife came from a casual comment I made when passing the Golden Dome Cathedral in Kiev (first trip).  I noticed her hesitate slightly as we walked past and I asked if she wanted to go inside.  The lasting memory was her reaction, energy and distinct change in attitude whilst inside and for the rest of the day...  I guess she isn't one of the unwashed masses you were referring to???

4. The suppression of the all religions during the communist years obviously didn't "stamp out" Christianity - in case you missed all the RU Orthodox Churches virtually every town and city.  

Good post, Kuna.  My experiences and observations were the same.

[KenC]

I hope no one minds me addressing the OP instead of following the sidetrack of analyzing Ambach.  

It seems infinitely easier to follow this pursuit now than it was 10 years ago.  The prevalence of Russians with computers is the key in my mind.  Ten years ago very few RW had their own computers so any communications needed to be directed through an agency computer.  Today even if the RW does not have her own computer, direct communication is usually provided by some means via the agencies.

The other key element which makes it much easier today than before, is RWD.  The sheer wealth of information that can be gathered in this one location is amazing.  The exchange of ideas (both good and bad) is so much more helpful than trying to figure everything out on your own has opened up so many more possibilities and options.

In the little bit of dabbling I have personally experienced, I see little difference in the make up of the RW seeking a foreign relationship.  There were just as many scammers and insincere women then as now.  If anything, the RW listed with agencies today are just much better informed than before.  They are more knowledgable about AM and specifically AM in this pursuit.  They seem to be less inclined to accept "key board romeos" and cut through the BS and want to know when the man will actually visit the fsu.  Of course this is bad news for the men that are less than sincere in this pursuit, but that is a positive thing in my mind.

Of course the Russian economy was in the dumper ten years ago, but it seems that there are the same financial struggles in the fsu now as there was then.  A poor economy will always make people open to changes and more thinking outside the box.  I have a suspection that things were much different when the fsu econmies were thriving for the little while that they did.  But now it seems as though they have gone full circle and are back to where they were ten years ago.
KenC

[Blues Fairy]

I have a suspection that things were much different when the fsu econmies were thriving for the little while that they did.  But now it seems as though they have gone full circle and are back to where they were ten years ago.

Except that ten years ago there was some hope of reformation and departure from the Soviet-style economics and government.  Now, all such hope is gone.  I predict that more educated, career-minded, politically literate RW will try to flee in the next few years. 

[Misha]

Except that ten years ago there was some hope of reformation and departure from the Soviet-style economics and government.  Now, all such hope is gone.  I predict that more educated, career-minded, politically literate RW will try to flee in the next few years. 

My wife just came back from Russia. It seems that reality still has to sink in. She was saying that there is the belief that this is only a setback and that somehow Putin & Co. will magically find a way to make Russia an economic superpower. The party is over and the hangover still hasn't kicked in yet IMHO.

[GoodOlBoy]

They seem to be less inclined to accept "key board romeos" and cut through the BS and want to know when the man will actually visit the fsu.

I like your post KenC.

Any newbie contemplating this (dating an FSUW) should already have the answer to this question, BEFORE he even starts.

GOB


PS....My opinion: 3-4 months (emails, Skype, etc.) and then jump on a plane and go for a visit!

[Ooooops]

After reading this thread I had an urge to watch one of my favorite Russian movies which I did last night - Покровские Ворота - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083465/     Sometimes I wish I could have lived during those times - there was lots of hope for the bright future of USSR...   

[OlgaH]

After reading this thread I had an urge to watch one of my favorite Russian movies which I did last night - Покровские Ворота - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083465/     Sometimes I wish I could have lived during those times - there was lots of hope for the bright future of USSR...   

Ooooops, I love that movie.

На улице идет дождь, а у нас идет концерт. Барометр у всех Советских людей показывает "ясно"!

[Ooooops]

На улице идет дождь, а у нас идет концерт. Барометр у всех Советских людей показывает "ясно"!

 

Whole movie is full of catchy phrases that now are used all the time...   

Высокие!   Высокие отношения!  (с)

But I'm not sure how well they sound in translation, I never watched it with English subtitles.

[OlgaH]

Высокие!   Высокие отношения!  (с)

Нормальные! …для духовных людей… 

Whole movie is full of catchy phrases that now are used all the time...

But I'm not sure how well they sound in translation, I never watched it with English subtitles.

I agree about catchy phrases.  "Это у тебя в руках всё горит, а у него в руках всё работает!"

I have not seen it with English subtitles either, but would be interesting.

[Ooooops]

Нормальные! …для духовных людей… 


I have not seen it with English subtitles either, but would be interesting.

 

Yep...  I hope it's nothing like "Lost in translation"...   

[Turboguy]

After reading this thread I had an urge to watch one of my favorite Russian movies which I did last night - Покровские Ворота - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083465/     Sometimes I wish I could have lived during those times - there was lots of hope for the bright future of USSR...   

Well hopes of a bright future don't count for much.  My parents probably looked at me with hopes of a bright future and look how I turned out.   :selfharm:

[Ooooops]

My parents probably looked at me with hopes of a bright future and look how I turned out.   :selfharm:

You ain't the only one...