How fat is too fat?

[Ooooops]

Why not tell Oopppss to be a woman instead ...

Being a woman I'm way too curious not to come back and check again...       So, let me tell you - I am a woman all right.   May be a bit too much of the woman for you to feel comfortable with.   But who cares?   You are just a VR.    

And here is me.   44 yo and almost 10 kilos heavier then 15 years ago, when I said I Do.   Eat your shorts, man! (c)  

[Gator]

Oooops,

I like your style, and I think you look great.   As my wife tells me, "You were too skinny when we married."

Regardless of how much weight you gain or what else the years will do, your upbeat and outgoing personality plus your wit and intellect will prevail.

What's a VR?

[Ooooops]

Regardless of how much weight you gain or what else the years will do, your upbeat and outgoing personality plus your wit and intellect will prevail.

What's a VR?

Gator, you are one of the kind.   I'm sure you wife knows that.   

VR - Virtual Reality.   Internet.   All of us here.   

[Turboguy]

I voted based on initial attraction.  However, I refuse to reveal how I voted out of fear that it may be used against me later. 

Wise move Show Time.   We are all sitting here like starving attack dogs waiting for you or someone else to say something wrong so we can rip your throat out.   

I do think it is hard to put a number on how much weight is too much.  20 pounds on a woman who is 5 foot tall is a lot different than on someone 5'10".   

[Ooooops]

We are all sitting here like starving attack dogs waiting for you or someone else to say something wrong so we can rip your throat out.   

 

20 pounds on a woman who is 5 foot tall is a lot different than on someone 5'10". 

I'm 174 cm tall.    So it's easy for me to talk to men eye to eye.   

[Turboguy]

I'm 174 cm tall.    So it's easy for me to talk to men eye to eye.   

Personally I always thought if I could find a really cute midget, about 3' tall,  it might be wonderful.  I realize that is not quite eye to eye but maybe the second best thing.

This thread has had me flirting with temptation to say something that could get me in trouble.  When I first saw my wifes profile the numbers would make someone think she could use to lose a few pounds yet the photo I saw showed a slender woman.   I considered that there could be a mistake in the numbers or an old photo.  It was neither.   She was thin but I guess just solidly built with good muscle mass.   She has been back in Russia for the past 5 weeks with 3 more to go and has taken off about 15 pounds and now is in the thin catagory even with numbers that might not sound like it.

[Ooooops]

Personally I always thought if I could find a really cute midget, about 3' tall,  it might be wonderful.  I realize that is not quite eye to eye but maybe the second best thing.

There is a pretty bad Russian joke about it ...

- What's the perfect woman should be? 
- 3 feet tall and with square head.
- Why square head?
- So you can place you beer mug safely... 

[Daveman]

Being a woman I'm way too curious not to come back and check again...       So, let me tell you - I am a woman all right.   May be a bit too much of the woman for you to feel comfortable with.   But who cares?   You are just a VR.   

And here is me.   44 yo and almost 10 kilos heavier then 15 years ago, when I said I Do.   Eat your shorts, man! (c)   

Well, that must be a 10 kilo camera.  I'm still in lust.     

What exactly is so antagonistic about this thread?  It touches on a real issue that many couples do face.  The side effects of weight gain can be as or even more detrimental to a relationship as any physical attraction aspect.  It gets quite complicated.  At least some people go through a drastic personality change after gaining a lot of weight. This new attitude also works to make them less attractive.  They can become absolutely different people completely. That's much more of a challenge than any physical aspect.

Some people carry extra weight well, both physically and emotionally. Others absolutely do not.  How does one deal with a situation where one winds up married to a stranger because of such a change?  A rhetorical question really as there are no clear cut answers because it takes both people to find a solution - and often times *both* are not willing to do so.  I do know that I would never stay with a woman who makes me miserable in life because of a crappy attitude. I'd try my best to get a handle on the situation, find new ways to intimacy, etc etc etc, but there comes a point where enough is enough and you have to make a change one way or another. 

I really don't see what is so controversial.  It happens.

[Blues Fairy]

How does one deal with a situation where one winds up married to a stranger because of such a change? 
I do know that I would never stay with a woman who makes me miserable in life because of a crappy attitude.
I really don't see what is so controversial. 

The controversy, I guess, is in how we approach our loved ones when they suddently become not so lovable.  I simply cannot imagine treating my partner as a black box with an in and out; I will always try to figure what's going on inside that makes him behave so.  In 99% cases, the problem will be curable with a little help - from doctors or therapists or even simple internet research and heartfelt talk.  People do not behave in a self-destructive fashion for no reason; and if I truly love someone I will work hard to identify that reason; not reject him or scold him or do any other similarly useless things. 

[Misha]

How does one deal with a situation where one winds up married to a stranger because of such a change? 

I would wager that she was a stranger before the wedding and remained one after the nuptials.

[Taz]

On this topic, I'll take a minute to plug a book by a friend of mine; Wedded Strangers by Lynn Visson. Pretty much gets to the heart of this topic. I can be pretty depressing to read but maybe worthwhile for many of you to read.

[Sculpto]

There is a pretty bad Russian joke about it ...

- What's the perfect woman should be? 
- 3 feet tall and with square head.
- Why square head?
- So you can place you beer mug safely... 

we have the same joke in english.. but you left out one part..  

[OlgaH]

On this topic, I'll take a minute to plug a book by a friend of mine; Wedded Strangers by Lynn Visson. Pretty much gets to the heart of this topic. I can be pretty depressing to read but maybe worthwhile for many of you to read.

Oh, Taz, now I see where your almost generalization and a touch of bitterness about RWs (as mistrust, having bad life experience, being abused and etc) comes from.  

But Lynn Visson being an intelligent woman also wrote regarding such examples: "It would be wrong, of course, to see these examples as typical of Russian women generally - it all depends on the woman's education, social class, profession and lifestyle"  

Though the book is written 10 years ago I should admit that it is very useful book and very interesting to read. Of course it is just my opinion. I also think that men who had experience with RWs will apprehend and summarize the information according their experience        

[Taz]

Unfortunately that isn't the case. My first contact with Lynn was about 25 years after my first trip to Russia. I had already gone numerous times before talking with her and ultimately reading her book. I read it to just have an additional viewpoint. It is written in both Russian and English versions. Sort of unique in that respect. While I don't agree with all she wrote, she does make some good points.

I don't form my opinions typically by reading a book. There is no substitute typically for personal experience. I have always tried to approach dating any woman like dating, not as a penpal or virtual relationship. I prefer as much face time as possible.

[OlgaH]

While I don't agree with all she wrote, she does make some good points.

Here I agree with you 

The point is the name of her book.    You, of course probably will not agree with me, but what I have noticed in your posts about your Russian ex-wife it seems that you married a stranger

[myrddin]

I’ve struggled with my weight my entire adult life.  I know exactly how hard it is to lose weight; it’s harder for me than for most people.

Even when my (AW) ex was gaining weight (no medical conditions involved) I felt I was the one with the real problem.  I had absorbed a notion that if I was concerned with her weight, it could only because I’m so mind-bogglingly shallow.  And I didn’t want to be shallow because that would make me a Bad Person.  I constantly beat myself up with that.

I tried to get us both to exercise more and eat better.  Failure led to more weight gain.

On a purely physical basis I became less attracted.  My weight gain didn’t bother her but hers bothered me.  I beat myself up even more. 

No one goes through that without other issues, of course, and eventually she initiated the divorce.  Since then she has remarried and gained more weight.


About new relationships:
Before and after my marriage, many women interested in me were overweight but otherwise very attractive.  Because of my own struggle, I felt hypocritical if I allowed weight to be a problem but I couldn’t pretend that it did not matter.  Sometimes I’d find or exaggerate other problems to prevent a relationship from going forward. 

People can and will argue many differences between FSUW vs. AW, but a quick look at self-described “average” body type on dating websites reveals an undeniable difference (and never mind “a few extra pounds” regularly means 50+ in the US). 

I’ve lost over 50 pounds so far and have maybe 20 or 30 to go (bit of a plateau recently).  My weight at any point has never been an issue with any FSUW, which is good but can intensify my internal dialogue about being a Bad Person if I worry about her weight.  But I do worry about it.


I think for women, the equivalent issue is a man’s financial security.  It is a legitimate concern.  Different women have different standards, but it can be a minefield of a topic.  If you’re obsessed with it, you’ve got problems.  If you ignore it completely, you’re lying to yourself.

[GQBlues]

What exactly is so antagonistic about this thread?

  Considering historical tendencies, I wondered about that, too. To note, I'm not siding with either side of the debate but...

Over the years in reading a lot of beaten down, drawn-out testimonials from would-be RW suitors from the US, one of the primal (ad nauseum) complaints they had about why they are searching in FSU is the fact that, according to them, AWs are just downright fat /obese. The endless tiring string of confessions (protest) about walking away from relationships, marriage or otherwise, because their ex’s had put too much weight (pun) in their respective relationships then to only be faced in having to choose a potential mate supposedly from a social buffet tables thereafter.

More times than not, regular posters hail their cries, validate their concerns, confirm their aspirations with numbing high-fives and assurances they’ll do everything they can to help them through the process towards success in landing a loving slimmer version of love.

Is it possible that maybe this was a simple case of the messenger v message?

[Sculpto]

I think pretty much so GQ.. the presentation was thoughtless in my opinion and diminished the value of the idea.  Same deal in the age thread.

[Taz]

So start your own thread. Easy to be a critic. Much hard to be productive.

So it seems the standard here on this board is one of 2 things:

Kill the messenger because of the message

Kill the message because of the messenger

Wow, what a stunning way of doing things. So shallow, judgmental people, have the audacity then to declare that other people are shallow and judgmental all the while sitting in their ivory towers. Sounds like a petty elitist attitude to me.

Sadly too many of you get caught up in attacking whatever is convenient. If you continue to attack someone and they finally defend themselves, then they are "defensive" if they don't sufficiently worship the RW that post here, then they are shallow, judgmental, (insert your favorite pejorative here) or heaven knows what.

A lot of the RW that post here may not be in the age group of women some of you might be considering. There are definite differences in RW based on their age. Not because of the obvious maturity level but because of the marked changes the FSU has undergone in the last 30 years.  The longer they are outside the FSU, the less like they are like the RW you might meet there. Is that better or worse, I'll leave that up to you to decide.

[Faux Pas]

So start your own thread. Easy to be a critic. Much hard to be productive.

So it seems the standard here on this board is one of 2 things:

Kill the messenger because of the message

Kill the message because of the messenger

Wow, what a stunning way of doing things. So shallow, judgmental people, have the audacity then to declare that other people are shallow and judgmental all the while sitting in their ivory towers. Sounds like a petty elitist attitude to me.

Sadly too many of you get caught up in attacking whatever is convenient. If you continue to attack someone and they finally defend themselves, then they are "defensive" if they don't sufficiently worship the RW that post here, then they are shallow, judgmental, (insert your favorite pejorative here) or heaven knows what.

A lot of the RW that post here may not be in the age group of women some of you might be considering. There are definite differences in RW based on their age. Not because of the obvious maturity level but because of the marked changes the FSU has undergone in the last 30 years.  The longer they are outside the FSU, the less like they are like the RW you might meet there. Is that better or worse, I'll leave that up to you to decide.

Taz,

I didn't participate in the poll for the simple fact, I have never been in that situation. The boundaries were too rigid for me to even begin to try and guess which way I would lean (no pun intended)  . I've only dated one plump (not fat) woman in my life and there is a reason for it. I, like you simply am not attracted to overweight women. Never have been and likely never will. I feel, because I know me, that I would not dump or divorce a woman because she gained weight. Again, I have no high water mark in which to judge from. This was never an issue in any of my previous relationships.

 

[Kuna]

So start your own thread. Easy to be a critic. Much hard to be productive.

So it seems the standard here on this board is one of 2 things:

Kill the messenger because of the message

Kill the message because of the messenger

Wow, what a stunning way of doing things. So shallow, judgmental people, have the audacity then to declare that other people are shallow and judgmental all the while sitting in their ivory towers. Sounds like a petty elitist attitude to me.

Sadly too many of you get caught up in attacking whatever is convenient. If you continue to attack someone and they finally defend themselves, then they are "defensive" if they don't sufficiently worship the RW that post here, then they are shallow, judgmental, (insert your favorite pejorative here) or heaven knows what.

A lot of the RW that post here may not be in the age group of women some of you might be considering. There are definite differences in RW based on their age. Not because of the obvious maturity level but because of the marked changes the FSU has undergone in the last 30 years.  The longer they are outside the FSU, the less like they are like the RW you might meet there. Is that better or worse, I'll leave that up to you to decide.

Taz,

I don't think I posted earlier in this thread even though I wrote one, I think I ended up canning it.

I didn't see your original exchanges that motivated this thread but you appear to be demonstrating stubbornness on this topic which is unhelpful for everyone.  You obviously have some personal experience which has formed your views and it appears you just can't accept other people not sharing those same views.

Let me promise you one thing about marriage to a RW.  If you demonstrate similar stubbornness with your future wife, you're in for a world of pain.

Sometimes people will just not agree with your views and there's a point at which you need to let it go.

In this case you appear to be forcing people to eat dirt and when they refuse you persist.  If you like dirt, dig in...  but accept others are different.

All the best to you.

Kuna

[Taz]

Kuna - A few quick things. I was married to a RW. There are 2 standards here, one for RW and then everyone else. If a RW is stubborn, then it is admirable and we should respect it. If someone else is stubborn, then it is bad.

I am not trying to force anyone into my viewpoint. As I've mentioned before, many times in many threads, to each their own. Nobody has to eat dirt. I am not the one attacking anyone here. Read back a few pages and you'll see. I accept that others are different far more than most here. Read a wide variety of my posts and you will see that.

If you are not at least a little stubborn with RW, they'll easily roll over you. They are not well known for compromise. They may tolerate, but they don't compromise that much.

Best of luck to you as well.

[Ooooops]

we have the same joke in english.. but you left out one part..  

Well... 3 feet tall was a clue...   

[Ooooops]

Well, that must be a 10 kilo camera.  I'm still in lust.     

 

Yep, I earn my bread with sweat in the brow...       And it's just a little baby lens!   

[Ooooops]

I'm all thumbs today...      double post again...