How to start a conversation...

[Ooooops]

Realizing the problem I tried a different approach and wrote several times in the first or second message quite extensively about me, with the intention to give her some informations she could ask about or comment on. To my very surprise the reply-rate on these messages is WAY lower than with the before-mentioned approach.

Lots of people have a very short attention span.   I'm one of them...       The longer the message the easier to lose main idea that is in it.     So try to keep it short but interesting.    May be a joke interwoven into the letter will also be nice.    But, of course, everybody is different and I'm only talking from my own point of view.   

[Ooooops]

May I kindly ask for your thoughts (rather perception than grammar) about that phrase?:

"Если мода, украшение, домашнее хозяйство и клубы являются приоритетами в твоей жизни, то мы вероятно не гармонируемы, так как я ищу женщину и никакую щеголиху; сам умею хорошо варить и - к сожалению - не умею танцевать. Но, если ты являешься веселой, образованной и независимой девочкой, которой родители всегда сказали что ты сорванец и надеваешь слишком часто брюки, тогда есть хороший шанс, что мы совместимы."

Is it what you writing in your Internet profile?   

[janic]

Is it what you writing in your Internet profile?   

Ahm, I placed it on one. Well, more or less....

Shoot me without blindfolding me first. I'd like to see the bullets....

[Lily]

May I kindly ask for your thoughts (rather perception than grammar) about that phrase?:

"Если мода, украшение, домашнее хозяйство и клубы являются приоритетами в твоей жизни, то мы вероятно не гармонируемы, так как я ищу женщину и никакую щеголиху; сам умею хорошо варить и - к сожалению - не умею танцевать. Но, если ты являешься веселой, образованной и независимой девочкой, которой родители всегда сказали что ты сорванец и надеваешь слишком часто брюки, тогда есть хороший шанс, что мы совместимы."

Thanks in advance for any feedback you will offer me!

The passage could well benefit from linguistic correction. But as far as you ask on perception rather than grammar, I'd point out the following:

- are you sure that домашнее хозяйство (household) is properly placed in this row? Do you want to say that you don't want someone who likes fancy dresses and clubbing? Is this what you mean by щеголиха? They obviously do not like housework

If you place the household among the unwanted qualities, that may mean that you just don't want a feminine person. Your last sentence reveals that you prefer a tomboy kind of girl. If I got you right, your requirements seems to be ok. After all, these are YOUR requirements.

[Ooooops]

Ahm, I placed it on one. Well, more or less....

Shoot me without blindfolding me first. I'd like to see the bullets....

OK   

Если мода, украшение, домашнее хозяйство и клубы являются приоритетами в твоей жизни, то мы вероятно не гармонируемы подходим друг другу, так как я ищу женщину и никакую щеголиху; я умею хорошо варить готовить и но, к сожалению, не умею танцевать. Но, если ты являешься веселой, образованной и независимой девочкой веселый, образованный и независимый которой родители всегда сказали что ты сорванец и надеваешь слишком часто брюки, тогда есть хороший шанс, что мы совместимы."

As I've said before - less words is better.   IMO.

[myrddin]

Dude, if she responds with just a polite "hi" and nothing more after you've introduced yourself and expressed an interest there's a damn good chance it can be interpreted as "sorry dude, I'm not really interested but I'm being polite and at least saying hi".

Seriously, stick to the ones that have a reasonable profile written; if they're too lazy or can't be bothered to write they aren't that serious anyway.

Do women really write "Hi" just to be polite?  I only saw this on Russian sites not directed towards foreigners.

BTW, SJ, nice new avatar.  Better hope your lady doesn't hit the board or she might see you with that other woman! 

janic,
Thinking about it now, I realize I had more "Hi, how are you?"s, which is at least *something* to go on.

I'd typically write a line or two back.  But only a few those ever resulted in any significant communication, and only one meeting in person (though I have to add, it was a "Wow!" meeting.  Until she lost me through some odd behavior later, she was my primary interest.)

FWIW, the women who wrote only "Hi" never lasted more than 3 messages.  Ultimately she's gotta be able to hold up her end of a conversation.

[Ade]

Do women really write "Hi" just to be polite?  I only saw this on Russian sites not directed towards foreigners.

I've had women on all sorts of dating sites respond with a "Hi, thanks" to my initial mails and compliments but they disappear immediately after never to respond again. Who knows, maybe they respond then take a look at the profile of the guy that's messaging them and decide he's not the one for them.

BTW, SJ, nice new avatar.  Better hope your lady doesn't hit the board or she might see you with that other woman! 

She's awesome and the best thing that's ever happened to me. Should I gush more?

[janic]

The passage could well benefit from linguistic correction.

Hi Lily!

Yes, most certainly you are right. It's more using my native grammar but applying Russian words. I should really work on my Russian but unfortunately I'm traveling too much for being able to regularly take 101 lessons. 

But as far as you ask on perception rather than grammar, I'd point out the following:

- are you sure that домашнее хозяйство (household) is properly placed in this row? Do you want to say that you don't want someone who likes fancy dresses and clubbing? Is this what you mean by щеголиха? They obviously do not like housework

If you place the household among the unwanted qualities, that may mean that you just don't want a feminine person. Your last sentence reveals that you prefer a tomboy kind of girl. If I got you right, your requirements seems to be ok. After all, these are YOUR requirements.

Ok, let me explain...
There are three types of girls or women I'm really not interested in:

• The ones who see their main purpose of life in being 'eye-candy', spending their times in malls, jewelry-shops, beauty-salons, etc.
• The I-want-fun-and-every-day-is-a-party-day type is also a NO-WAY!
• A woman who finds her fulfillment in being a house-wife, ensuring a cosy home, spending each day hours in the kitchen and saying all the time "Yes, my dear".

None of them could stand me and neither could I live with them. I would dry out emotionally and intellectually like a flower in the desert. What I'm looking for is a intelligent, cordial woman who has a life of her own and generally gives a dam' about what other people think about how she dresses or behaves. Not a Lady.

As for the сорванец (it took me more than half an hour to find that word in some dictionary... ):
Yes, a tomboyish woman would fit my agenda much better. In fact most of my steady GFs had no dresses in their closet and one with whom I spent several years didn't even owned a lipstick...

I feel in a classy hotel comfortable the same way as I can feel comfortable in a lower class motel or on a camping-site. I have/had hobbies like parachuting (shouldn't do it anymore bcause I damaged my spine some years ago ); Off-road driving and camping in the wilderness. Also I visit or work in countries that are by most people and some governments considered unsafe. Of course I hope that 'my' wife will share at least some of these activities and for the rest she shouldn't be scared to death that possibly smth might happen.

But there are many shades of gray and that's what kind-of worries me: I'm completely unaware what type of woman in the FSU would be considered to be tomboyish. ...  A woman who spends most of her time in some shirt and some trousers can very well be able and inclined to put a stunning, elegant dress on, when she goes to a party or a theater and afterwards welcome sitting together with me somewhere in the docks, instead of complaining that the dress could get dirty and there is a smell of tar in the air. Similar a woman who works as a lawyer/engineer, has many interests, and is intellectual can still enjoy cooking or keeping the home nice and more-or-less tidy. And I definitively don't want to unnecessarily send such woman away!

I wanted to get some unprejudiced reactions and therefor just asked about perception. But I assume now I've made clearer what I try to find out.

OK   

And I'm still alive. Thanks!

As I've said before - less words is better.   IMO.

Sorry, I know I talk too long-winded and speak even more... 

[janic]

Do women really write "Hi" just to be polite?  I only saw this on Russian sites not directed towards foreigners.

Since my primary 'hunting ground' are such Sites its a interesting information for me. Thanks!

janic,
Thinking about it now, I realize I had more "Hi, how are you?"s, which is at least *something* to go on.

Many don't even ask that. Just "Hi", "Привет" or "приятно познакомиться" or smth like that.

I'd typically write a line or two back.  But only a few those ever resulted in any significant communication [...] FWIW, the women who wrote only "Hi" never lasted more than 3 messages.

I've had women on all sorts of dating sites respond with a "Hi, thanks" to my initial mails and compliments but they disappear immediately after never to respond again.

Thanks for that too! - So I see now that it's not smth that only happens to me. Nice to know!

Who knows, maybe they respond then take a look at the profile of the guy that's messaging them and decide he's not the one for them.

It comes down to "Who cares", now that it's clear that it's not uncommon.

[Gator]

It's not about the 'Hi, would you like to...' but about what follows immediately after it.
So let me give you a better example:
Profile: http://freepersonals.ru/profile?id=318991;

I write her....She replies: ["Hi"]...Yeah, that's a real answer I got. And it's not the only one that is so dam* short.

I send her smth in reply...

She: drops off. Never heard of again.

Well, possibly I should just assume that such short contacts just show that the woman is even more incapable of starting a conversation than I am and therefor not worthy to spend a single thought on. But should I assume so?

WRONG.  You should assume the following: 

-  No other man has written Natalia because only one man added her to "favorites" - presumably you. 

-  Thus, you are her only chance to correspond. 

-  However, Natalia speaks zero English (She wrote her profile in Russian and she can not even spell her name correctly in English). 

-  She sent the "Hi" as a hint to keep it short and simple.

-  Your second email was a wall of English words and it discouraged her.

The only other explanation is that she had just started typing a long letter to you, and just after typing "Hi" her boyfriend came in and made fantastic love with her, making her forget about her silly plans to find a foreign man.

You like to gab.  So join Elena's Models and write the women with good-excellent English.  Forget the rest. And focus on those who write a lot about themselves in their profile.

Also, I question your choice of women.  No offense intended - if you are going to attempt this difficult journey, make the prize something special.

[Misha]

Do women really write "Hi" just to be polite?  I only saw this on Russian sites not directed towards foreigners.

No. On Russian dating sites, if a woman is not interested, she simply won't reply. My wife's first reply was "privet" (hi) to my first message (also hi). Three years later we are still together and happily married.

[myrddin]

No. On Russian dating sites, if a woman is not interested, she simply won't reply. My wife's first reply was "privet" (hi) to my first message (also hi). Three years later we are still together and happily married.

I think that applies to any woman, at any point in the communication - no reply means no interest (may not know why, but if it's not there, it's not there).

 I'm guessing your communication got a bit more involved pretty quickly after that 

[janic]

-  However, Natalia speaks zero English (She wrote her profile in Russian and she can not even spell her name correctly in English).

Gator, you don't get it right. If some woman shows signs that she could have trouble with English I write in Russian. Language-barrier is IMO not the major problem here.

The only other explanation is that she had just started typing a long letter to you, and just after typing "Hi" her boyfriend came in and made fantastic love with her, making her forget about her silly plans to find a foreign man.

That's a very reasonable explanation!  

Also, I question your choice of women.  No offense intended - if you are going to attempt this difficult journey, make the prize something special.

I see nothing offensive in your statement!
If I find somewhere on this planet some nice, somehow tomboyish woman who has moral, family values, education and seriously wants lifetime-commitment with some weirdo like me than it would be my TOP-SPECIAL-#1-PRIZE.

Chances to find someone like that in Western-Europe or the US are imo not far from ZERO. S/W Europe maybe or maybe Latin America, but 'civilized' countries? No way!

No offense on my side, but different ppl have different preferences. What I would like to find might be for you smth like a booby-prize but that's fine with me.

[Gator]

Janic, the beauty of the Internet is have access to hundreds of thousands of women who may be just right for you.  The question remains, Is Russia the best place for you to look?

There are three types of girls or women I'm really not interested in: The ones who see their main purpose of life in being 'eye-candy', spending their times in malls, jewelry-shops, beauty-salons, etc.

Be careful – many RW are exactly this way, particularly the pretty ones who have been spoiled by RM.

 The I-want-fun-and-every-day-is-a-party-day type is also a NO-WAY!

Some RW can have fun (and enjoy it) doing nothing eventful and without having to go to clubs.  These are the best IMO.

A woman who finds her fulfillment in being a house-wife, ensuring a cosy home, spending each day hours in the kitchen and saying all the time "Yes, my dear".

   
Don’t worry, RW are incapable of saying “Yes, my dear.”  They are far from being compliant women.

What I'm looking for is a intelligent, cordial woman who has a life of her own and generally gives a dam' about what other people think about how she dresses or behaves. Not a Lady…. Yes, a tomboyish woman would fit my agenda much better.

Confusing.  You do not want a lady?  If so, I suggest that you stay in America where there are plenty of unfeminine women.  RW will go “Off-road driving” in the mud without any makeup and piss behind a tree without complaining, yet they will still want to dress up and have some fun that evening (and go to the mall the next day).

[I/O]

Janic: Keep your first letter to 3 paragraphs maximum, those paragraphs shouldn't contain more than two sentences each.................and those sentences should be 12 words or less. Have you heard, "If I had more time I'd write a shorter letter"? Put some time into it and write a short letter.

Humour? Yeah maybe. I've always thought any fool could laugh his/her way through the icebreak but it took a bit of talent to do so without humour and get a result which was pleasing to all. Not saying it should be dower, just saying I don't think humour is the whole answer. BTW, all these comments about what sort of sense of humour Russians have is a bit speculative IMO. I've seen anything and everything. For the most part though, they don't seem to mind throwing off at themselves but make sure you leave that to them.

Google is a handy BS tool. Research her location a little and ask a few questions on subjects/locations which a foreigner shouldn't know about. Face to face, RW can be quite clever in extracting more out of you than you will out of them. RM are far more predictable. They usually want to know how much Vodka or Cognac you can drink and what your monthly payment is on your home. If you down them on their own brew (as I've had the pleasure of doing a few times) and inform them you own your home thus you don't have a monthly payment, for the most part they'll lose interest in you and the women around the table will lose interest in them which is the result you're looking for.

Tongue plant: Russians don't understand American humour? LOL, for many of them Americans ARE humour.

I/O

[Ade]

Tongue plant: Russians don't understand American humour? LOL, for many of them Americans ARE humour.

Yes indeed,

[janic]

Janic, the beauty of the Internet is have access to hundreds of thousands of women who may be just right for you.  The question remains, Is Russia the best place for you to look?

I don't know if Russia [or the FSU] is the best place for me to look. But I think it's a very good place to look. The time I've stayed in UA might total up to something well over a year and I felt so good and comfortable like I haven't felt since my time in Central America. I very very much like the people and the mentality there. Of course not every aspect of the mentality is 'pure sunshine', but when I add it up, the figure is extremely positive.

I can sincerely imagine to live in UA, even if some things there are quite annoying. But nothing stops me to eliminate most of these annoyances. I can buy and install my own heating/warm water, I can get heavy duty filters for the water, etc. And even the landlord who might show up and tell you that you have to leave in 2 weeks or agree to 700USD higher rent, even if your contract is still good for another 5 months, can be handled or eliminated. :evil: Every time I have to leave UA I'm really sad, because it's one of my favored countries. And let me tell you further that during the last about 4-5 years I haven't been for more than maybe a total of 4 months to Mid-western Europe. And I miss? Not much. I'm very relieved that I don't have to endure all the sh*ty aspects of the overregulated, decadent and political correct western civilization. I think I can very well understand why somebody like Sculpto wants to live in Mexico instead of the US.

So having written that you can see that I have some insight into what I try to achieve or what I would get. Is the FSU the only place I look? No, it isn't, but yes, I do concentrate on this region, especially UA.

Be careful – many RW are exactly this way, particularly the pretty ones who have been spoiled by RM.

I know. But I've met several woman there who were very much what I'm looking for. But none of them 100% or they were happily married... 
And I'm still not sure if I'm happy with my text... 

Some RW can have fun (and enjoy it) doing nothing eventful and without having to go to clubs.  These are the best IMO.

If I get you right, then I would agree with you. But pls mind the "If", because there are several options how to interpret your sentence.

Don’t worry, RW are incapable of saying “Yes, my dear.”  They are far from being compliant women.

Whom have you met?!  - It's not what I experienced...

Confusing.  You do not want a lady?  If so, I suggest that you stay in America where there are plenty of unfeminine women.

America? I think you are talking about the USA... (Sorry, had to mention it. I'm a bit sensitive when it comes to the point that somebody equals the US with entire America. It's not meant offensive! Ok?)
But back to topic: Possibly from the outside. Not from the inside.

RW will go “Off-road driving” in the mud without any makeup and piss behind a tree without complaining, yet they will still want to dress up and have some fun that evening (and go to the mall the next day).

Ahm... To some extent you are right. But a significant part will refuse to go in Jeans on a sightseeing-tour of the city because "It's not feminine and Lady-like". 

[Ooooops]

RW will go “Off-road driving” in the mud without any makeup and piss behind a tree without complaining, yet they will still want to dress up and have some fun that evening (and go to the mall the next day).

Sorry to disagree with you, but it's not true with all of us.   I can "piss behind a tree"  for months on a row without dressing up and malls in the evenings.    So I think it's very possible for Janic to find a Russian tomboy (I don't even own a hair dryer, how about that for being a сорванец?    ). 

[Ooooops]

Don’t worry, RW are incapable of saying “Yes, my dear.”  They are far from being compliant women.

It must be this time of the month, but I disagree with you again!      Me personally is a very much “Yes, my dear.” woman most of the time.    I know how and when pick my battles.       Don't you know that common Russian idiom that husband is definitely the head of the family, but wife is the neck that turns that head around.   

[Daveman]

Sorry to disagree with you, but it's not true with all of us.   I can "piss behind a tree"  for months on a row without dressing up and malls in the evenings.    So I think it's very possible for Janic to find a Russian tomboy (I don't even own a hair dryer, how about that for being a сорванец?    ). 

No hair dryer? not even a curling iron? (GASP)

You and gator reminded me of a story from Crimea from a few years ago.  We were visiting that castle with the several lion sculptures. I can't remember the name or even the city/town at this point... Maybe Alupka?  Anyway, we were strolling along the path when all of a sudden she hand me her bag and says "wait me" and jumps over the little stone retaining wall.. "What are you...." "WAIT ME!!!" and she disappeared into the woods. Then it kinda dawned on me what was happening... I had to laugh.  I guess everyone wondered what the nut was laughing at, standing alone on the path gazing off into the wilderness..

Yep, quite a shocker the first time it happens...


But another one took me to the Catacombs near Odessa and after strolling through and seeing the small museum at the end, I requested the lady to ask the location of the restroom... this was my first visit so my Russian was nearly non existent..  she said something to the guy there, and I remember hearing.. blablalalalal blalallalablablalalala za museum blalalalla.. I didn't really understand "za" but I had an idea..  she kinda went off on the guy...  then turned to me "you want to go pee behind museum like some animal? then go.. be an animal... I think this one would have burst entirely before even going into a dirty bathroom, much less behind a tree.  

Russian women are..... quite varied....

[Ooooops]

No hair dryer? not even a curling iron? (GASP)

Look at my hair.    Do you think I need one?  

PS.   Oh, and to finish the picture of "no curly iron" - when we were driving our Yellow Fellow RV for couple months in the row I used to cut my own hair while propping a little mirror on van's bumper.   See what I'm saying about tomboys?    

[Gator]

I can "piss behind a tree"  for months on a row

Wow!  Up to now I thought the record was 90 seconds.  That's a loooooong pee.  You can really hold it. 

[Gator]

So I think it's very possible for Janic to find a Russian tomboy (I don't even own a hair dryer, how about that for being a сорванец?    ). 

I think the "Ooooops" mold broke after God made you.  I have not met any RW like you. 

[Gator]

Me personally is a very much “Yes, my dear.” woman most of the time.   

Doesn't show around here.  I'll ask Taz and a couple of others what they think.

I know how and when pick my battles.   

Shhhhhhh! That's the secret.  Don't tell the other RW.  A wise man knows to let his woman prevail in almost all differences of opinion, that is until a big one needs to be made.

 

[Ooooops]

I think the "Ooooops" mold broke after God made you.  I have not met any RW like you. 

 

We all made of clay...  and some ribs...