Going to Mexico with my lady

[Aloe]

by the way, you can rent a little villa in thailand much cheaper than hotels

[ScottinCrimea]

I thought the idea was to take her to Mexico to test her out in the environment in which you plan to live with her.  Can you achieve the same goal in Thailand?

[UTRO]

Please note change of Subject Title above 

[Sculpto]

Gator..

thanks for the solid advice.  I might hit you up for more details.  I have been lost in a dizzying array of Thailand travel sites.. unbelievable how many there are and how much information is available.

Right now it looks like a few days in Bangkok then fly up north to Chiang Mai.. Lok airlines is like 20 bucks RT per person!  INSANE..

Do a few days inside Chiang Mai and then see about going to a national park or elephant trek or something along those lines..

Then.. flyback to Bangkok on go west to the Tiger Temple and River Kwai.. 3-4 days for that..

Debating about Pattaya or not.. There is certainly a lot to do around there.. but i am not sure how she would react to the main biz of Pattaya..

Then probably go south to Koh Phangan or Koh Tao to end up the trip..

Really the hardest thing is deciding where to stay.. way way way too many choices..

As far as the 15 day limit.. there seem to be some contradictions about that.. some sites say 15 days.. others say 30.. I guess we need to get that confirmed.. Regardless I am sure there is a way around it.

I am pretty upset with Mexico though.. I will be writing a letter to the consul.. I did speak to him.. sent him a letter 3 months ago asking his help.. and nothing.. perhaps a letter explaining I will be spending in Thailand instead and my writer fiance was planning to write a an article (true) for a travel mag might make them wake up and understand they simply need to remove the visa restriction altogether. 

BTW... in researching alternatives I did discover that Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador and Nicaragua all allow visa free entry up to 30 days.  Venezuela, Colombia and Argentina do also.. Brazil will be soon...

[Sculpto]

I thought the idea was to take her to Mexico to test her out in the environment in which you plan to live with her.  Can you achieve the same goal in Thailand?

Well that would have been ideal, but, much of the same chaos and dynamic exists in Thailand also.  We get to spend a month together.. we will travel to some out of the way places... it should be great!  And, this trip will be no more 5 Star than what was planned for Mex.  We are essentially going on a slightly high end backpackers trip.. and only slightly at that. The only component that is missing are my close friends in Mexico.  I would have valued their opinions but I think I will be fine anyway.

[Sculpto]

by the way, you can rent a little villa in thailand much cheaper than hotels

That depends on the type of hotel and the type of villa..

But I am looking into that for Koh Phangan.. huge party scene there and I don't want to be right in the middle of it.. nice to visit and party on the beach.. but I want some solitude also and a nice bungalow or house would be perfect.

[Sculpto]

I am pretty sure 30 days is the real deal..

Customs formalities

21.01.2009 g.
Thailand temporarily overrides to pay for a visa
Visas for all foreigners in the three months will be free.
Also at three months, significantly reduce the price of access to national museums and parks in Thailand.

27/12/2006
Visas in Thailand canceled
26 December 2006 the Government of Russia approved an agreement with Thailand on the conditions of the refusal of visa formalities. Now citizens of Russia will be able to travel to Thailand for 30 days, having just a passport. However, it should be noted that the procedure for registration of Thai visa and had no particular difficulty: it can be processed or in Moscow or on arrival in Thailand, for $ 25. However, due to the fact that Russia's tourists arrive in large groups, in Airport concentrated solid line.
(RATA-NEWS)

Term
Up to 30 days

Note: check the length of stay, you mentioned in your passport by the Immigration Service. Persons who exceed the term of stay in the country indicated in the visa when leaving the country will have to pay 200 baht for each overdue day.

[JR]

Well.. Mexico has fallen apart.  Not for a lack of effort on our part thats for sure.  The Embassy would not accept "A"s name on my account.  Foolish.. because.. instead of spending my money in Mexico..

We are going to Thailand after all..

So.. this will be a pretty amazing adventure.. I haven't been there.. don't speak a word of Thai.. 30 days though so it will be awesome!

Chiang Mai.. here we come!

WOW, sorry your plans fell thru but it looks like you landed on your feet with a back-up plan. Hope you guys have fun!

[Vaughn]

Indeed, have a great time there. With all the positive comments by Gator and others
about Thailand, it's moved up several notches on my Must See list.

My cousin ran a fabric exporting business there, and enjoyed living in and around
Bangkok for three years - says they were among the best years of his life thus far.

[Gator]

Debating about Pattaya or not.. There is certainly a lot to do around there.. but i am not sure how she would react to the main biz of Pattaya..

No problem if she is indifferent to prostitution and sleaze.

Then probably go south to Koh Phangan or Koh Tao to end up the trip..

Been there too.  The former is famous for full moon parties (20,000 young kids) and the latter for diving.  Stayed at the best hotel on Koh Phangan and it was still dirt cheap. 

Rather than the Gulf of Siam, I think the Adaman Sea has better water quality and beaches.  The best in my opinion is Railay, just south of Krabi.  From there you can take inexpensive long tail boats to uninhabited islands (don’t miss Chicken Island).  Lonely Planet agrees and has Railay at the top of the beach list:

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thailand/travel-tips-and-articles/42/1139

BTW, I think Lonely Planet is the best guide even though its largest followers are backpackers perhaps.

Other popular and acceptable beaches in the area:

- Phi Phi Island (pronounced 'pee pee') – has lost much of its appeal after Leonardo DiCaprio filmed  The Beach there) .   

- Koh Lanta  - okay, but height of mediocrity IMO.

- Phuket – perfect if you like big hotels, a variety of nightlife, etc.

There are other places if interested.   What is your budget?

[Sculpto]

Great tips Gator..

I have been going back and forth between the Gulf of Siam and Andaman Sea islands/beaches.. I dont think there is really time for both.  Not sure if I want to endure the full moon party or not.. I have heard people leave a big mess and that would probably bum me out.  But, I think it is really worth it to experience island life so Koh Tao is probably the better destination where we can locate a bit away from the party but its there in a smaller scale if we want it.

Budget would be something like enhanced backpacker.. not staying in hostels but by no means high end luxury either.. I personally prefer to travel as close to "going native" as my sense of hygiene and comfort will allow.  If I was going alone I would be completely in the budget backpacker range looking to get by on under 25 a day.  What appears interesting at this stage of research is the myriad of options available.  Compared to Mexico there is a lot bigger choice in the budget range for what appear to be better quality lodgings. 

If I was going alone I would not make any plans at all and just float with the wind.. I am debating whether or not to take that approach with a first timer.. it might be a bit intense to not know where we will be staying in advance.  Right now in reading about Bangkok it is clear we could just arrive and search around for a hotel, but, I think that would freak her out.  Might reserve a place for the first two nights and then move to better digs after I have had a chance to hook into the "network" and find some inside tips.  It is also clear that it might be a softer landing to base in Bangkok and spread wings from there as opposed to zipping out of the big city asap.  There is an amazing array of easy to do day drips from Bangkok or even 2-3 day trips.. so.. I could see the first two weeks being like that.. then head up north for a week and then down south for the final week..

The most challenging thing really is figuring out which of all the amazing things there are to do there to select.  I don't want to miss any must see things.. yet.. I am typically expert at getting off the beaten path.. sadly it appears most of the path in Thailand is heavily beaten.  That is the only perceived downside at this point.

As for Pattaya.. I have no idea how she would react to the visual reality of that place.  We have discussed it briefly conceptually, but, to actually see it I don't know if her reaction would be indifference or revulsion.  I know the journalist will want to see it, I have no idea how the girl will react... if you know what I mean. 

[SANDRO43]

I made an overnight stay in Bangkok on my way to Phuket many years ago, and there was plenty to see in the time available - Buddhist temples, floating market, etc.

[Sculpto]

I am getting a bit overwhelmed with the hotel choices.. way way way too many options.

Interesting development today.. apparently she sold an article.. and has decided to pay for her own ticket.. "Ereek.. you spend too much on this trip, I can to pay my ticket"

We book the flights on Monday... I cant wait to see her!  Just about two weeks now.. tictoctictoc

[Sculpto]

ok, finally verified if its 15 or 30 days.. this is from the offical TAT site in Russia.. 30 days!  No cost entry.. free for Russians until March!

http://www.tourismthailand.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47&Itemid=57

Moscow round trip.. $700 to bangkok on emirates.  12+ hours fly time with a stop over in Dubai.  (I am a little jealous of that.. would love to see Dubai from the air)

Will see her on the 12th!

[Taz]

Hope this all works out for you. I told you before though it would take a long time to get a visa to Mexico regardless of what the consulate claims. In practice or on the website it seems simple but IRL proves otherwise.

On the upside, Thailand is an amazing place. I definitely plan to go back again. I spent quite a bit of time there. It really is an amazing country. Speaking of amazing countries, don't overlook Turkey as a great destination too! Get away from Istanbul (worth seeing but not the best the country has to offer in my estimation) and you can have an incredibly romantic vacation and see a lot of interesting ruins or scenery depending on your tastes. Nothing quite like a hot air balloon ride at sunrise in Cappadocia. Very easy for Russian/Ukrainians to get a visa at the airport for about $30US. Rent a car and drive around and see the country. Very short flight for her as well and not expensive.

[JR]

We book the flights on Monday... I cant wait to see her!  Just about two weeks now.. tictoctictoc

KEWL Eric, I'm sure your grin must be ear to ear! Hope you two have a GREAT time.

[Sculpto]

Hope this all works out for you. I told you before though it would take a long time to get a visa to Mexico regardless of what the consulate claims. In practice or on the website it seems simple but IRL proves otherwise.

On the upside, Thailand is an amazing place. I definitely plan to go back again. I spent quite a bit of time there. It really is an amazing country. Speaking of amazing countries, don't overlook Turkey as a great destination too! Get away from Istanbul (worth seeing but not the best the country has to offer in my estimation) and you can have an incredibly romantic vacation and see a lot of interesting ruins or scenery depending on your tastes. Nothing quite like a hot air balloon ride at sunrise in Cappadocia. Very easy for Russian/Ukrainians to get a visa at the airport for about $30US. Rent a car and drive around and see the country. Very short flight for her as well and not expensive.

Actually it was more a question of my sweetheart paying attention to details which she neglected to do and then me not being able to persuade the consul to make an exception.  Oh well..

One thing that occurred to me with the change in plans is.. in Mexico.. I have a pile of memories.. with other women.   In Thailand.. WE will be creating brand new memories that belong only to us.  That in the long run might be better.

Turkey and Cappadocia are certainly on the list.  I have known about Cappadocia long before I ever thought about going to the FSU.. my sculpture teacher WALKED there in the 1950s on his WALKING trip from Moscow to Bangkok via Kabul... yes.. in the 50s.. he told some great stories about having to wrestle villagers for a bed and dinner.. he played defensive end at Michigan State so I guess he held his own.  But.. I think it will be easier to initiate "A" into budget backpacking in Thailand than it would in Turkey.

BTW.. I have been reading a lot of Thailand forums and Pattaya is FULL of Russians.. Hookers, sex tourists, mafia.. and travel agent tour package types on Jomtien beach..  We will NOT be going to Pattaya.    link only not embedding on purpose.  Also not posting that to in any way insult FSUW.  Just a very small piece of reality worth knowing about.  The FSUM in Pattaya are also obviously there for a particular not very pure reason.

Our itinerary is based on a combination of nature, cultural locations, candle and lantern festivals, VISITING HILL TRIBES, trekking with homestays, waterfalls, hot springs, white water river rafting, lakes, elephants, monkeys, and finally ending up on the beach where we will do some snorkeling and rock climbing.  I have designed it to be just left of the beaten path.. not way the heck out in the middle of nowhere, but, also not right in the middle of the "lonely planet" crowd of faux hippies and flashpackers.  Essentially the exact same thing as had been planned for Mexico.  But.. I am a good researcher and btw.. Gator did provide and absolutely perfect suggestion for the beach.  I will tease you all with some photos in 6 weeks.    Maybe.. if you are all nice to Gothman. 

[Gator]

We will NOT be going to Pattaya.   

Glad to read that.  Pattaya is comparable to Tijuana and I doubt you would take your woman to Tijuana.  When I saw the word 'Pattaya' it was clear that you needed some help.

Our itinerary is based on a combination of nature, cultural locations, candle and lantern festivals, VISITING HILL TRIBES, trekking with homestays, waterfalls, hot springs, white water river rafting, lakes, elephants, monkeys, and finally ending up on the beach where we will do some snorkeling and rock climbing.  I have designed it to be just left of the beaten path.. not way the heck out in the middle of nowhere, but, also not right in the middle of the "lonely planet" crowd of faux hippies and flashpackers. 

The important goal is to build your relationship by spending time with your woman in a warm, pleasant and interesting place.  Thailand is such a place.  The people are gentle, the land of smiles.  I stress that point because I think you will find Thailand very commercialized, even when you get away from the Sheratons and Hyatts. You will not get the travel experiences that might be conjured in your mind.

You put this in caps: "VISITING HILL TRIBES." This is something you really want to experience.  It likely will disappoint you in Thailand because of the politics and  the sheer number of tourists.  Even if you contact the limey I suggested above who does venture away from the beaten path, the experience will be better but not the same as what I saw in Laos.   

Thailand is not Joseph Conrad country, not even Graham Greene. Let's face the fact that today nothing is like the past.  While Laos is closer, it still is not what I recall from the 1960s (hill tribe men now have shotguns rather than bows).  In Laos you ride elephants bareback while in Thailand you have a comfortable platform seat for two.  The Laotian hill tribe people will shy away from you while the Thai hill tribe kids are begging for money.

OTOH, if you want nature, Thailand is better than Laos.  I did not see one beautiful bird in Laos except those killed and being sold in the market for food.  Laotians have clear cut almost everything within an hour of the Mekong except for steep mountainsides where I did not venture.

I wish you a good and safe trip, and I hope all continues to progress with your  FSUW.

[Sculpto]

Gator,

Pattaya is a confusing place.  On the one hand it is the whorehouse to the world and from what I have seen on youtube and read it makes Tijuana look tame.  On the other hand, TAT is making a huge effort to clean up the reputation and attract family tourism, specifically to Jomtien beach on the other side of the hill.  Oddly, in reading the Thailand forums, one very persistent complaint is the Russian invasion in Pattaya.  Apparently the tour packages sold by Russian travel agents have Pattaya as the primary destination and it appears, from a lot of what I have read, that a lot of these Russians have not behaved very well as guests in the land of smiles... lots of drunken brawls and that kind of thing.

So, anyway.. Pattaya is absolutely out of the question.

Now.. as far as getting the authentic experience I would have been able to achieve in Mexico.. you are absolutely correct... it does not exist anymore in Thailand in any place that is not a real pain in the butt to get to.  Issan appears relatively untouched, but, its flat and de-forested.  Chiang Mai has grown to over a million people.. there are hundreds if not thousands of hotels and guest houses.  So, the main thing from a travel perspective is to try and get away from the throngs and figure out where the Thais themselves go.. that shouldn't be too hard.. I am good at that.

I am expecting some very interesting experiences with my girl.  I am really looking forward to her reactions to the backpacker scene in Bangkok, how she digests the Bhuddist culture, her ability to be flexible as a traveler, how she deals with the heat and other discomforts.. all of those things will tell me a lot about our long term compatibility.  From our most recent conversations I think we will be fine.  I cant wait!

[Sculpto]

Well.. everything is finalized.. tics purchased.. cash and credits cards procured (on her end for Thai tourist entry) first hotel in bangkok reserved.. rough itinerary planned..

Picking a hotel in Bangkok was a surprisingly difficult task.  The sheer number of properties is staggering.  The cheapest bed I found was .67 cents a night.. the most expensive.. $10,000 a night.. the place I finally decided on is a private guest house right on the river not far from the palace.  It looks like someones actual home and has what could be termed "folk architecture" and there is an art gallery and workshop on the premises.  Its a little rustic without being rough, just homemade.. cost.. $9 a night for a private cabin made of teak and hidden in the tropical garden.  Should be lovely.  There are two other places in Bangkok we will stay during other parts of the trip when we have to come back.. One is a famous old hotel where western artists and writers have been staying for decades.  It has a unique colonial architecture and supposedly an amazing art collection.  The other is a brand new guest house, also made of teak, that is filled to the brim with antiques and tribal arts and crafts.  Each room is unique.  I would have probably opted for this one for our first stop, but, their online reservation system isn't working properly so it will be better to just walk in and make a reservation for later in the trip.  Both of those places are around $20 a night and include western buffet breakfast.

I have a 9 hour layover in Taipei.. at first I figured I would just sit it out in the airport, but, a friend challenged me to do a bonzai into the center of Taipei.. I am looking into it though after a 13 hour flight I am not sure I want to be bothered.. lol

Well. final countdown time.. 8 days to go..

[SANDRO43]

a friend challenged me to do a bonzai into the center of Taipei..

What's that, a hybrid, bellicose bonsai, or a ground-rooted banzai charge ?

[Sculpto]

What's that, a hybrid, bellicose bonsai, or a ground-rooted banzai charge ?

LOL the latter.. do customs.. get on the train.. take in one major site and get some food.. back on the train to the airport.. not sure if I will do it though.. seems an invitation to a Murphy's law situation and I don't have time for that...

[UTRO]

Wishing you all the best Sculpto! 'A' is seemingly more legit the more this goes on.

[Gator]

Fiction,

You mentioned that your woman wants entertainment.   I am a traditionalist yet enjoyed the modern clubs atop tall buildings.  The Oriental Hotel has an excellent jazz bar.  One splendid evening the singer was a large black American woman singing the Blues, and the band was comprised of Russian men.
 
In Bangkok be sure to go to Somboom for dinner, a short tuk tuk ride from the Oriental.  It is a popular place among the locals and moderately priced. The fish and crustaceans are kept alive in tanks that you can watch while dining.   My future wife had little exposure to food with chili peppers, so Thailand was the place to lose her virginity.   She ordered one of Samboom's specialties – crab curry, which is not mild.  She took a bite and her eyes got big, yet she somehow smiled.  Although she sweated like a stuck pig, she finished her tasty dish with the help of two beers.  We had spicy food throughout our travels.

When you go from Wat Pho to the Palace, ignore the people who tell you that the palace is closed and they have a better place to see.  They are attempting to drag you to a jewelry shop – so don’t accept the myth that Thai speak only the truth. 

Another must see being that you are an artist – Jim Thompson’s house.  You can reach it easily using the  metro in the sky.  Suggest to your woman that she select a silk something from the retail shop there.


Bon Voyage

[Gator]

When in Bangkok, talk to an agency about Laos for the reasons I discussed earlier.  I did not have good photo equipment, nor am I a good photgrapher, yet here are some photos from Laos: