Starting out. The Realities of FSU Women VS American Women

[Ravens9273]

Recently I have seen alot of new members come to RWD with extremely high expections. Reading these posts made me do alot of thinking about separating the Myths from Reality and the difference of FSU Women to AM. It also made me realize as to why many start on this journey.

Personally I feel the differences in Myth many expect of FSU Women from AW are very off.

One of the most famous statements Men have given as to why they search for a FSU Women over an AW is American Women are too Materialistic.

This I feel is one of the biggest Myths out there.
Personally I think FSU Women are more heavy on the wallets.
Their society is based on flash. I especially know from Odessa everything is image. Who wears the best clothes, best cars, etc...
Russian Women want to have the best. They want the name brand clothes. Gucci, Prada, Louis Vuitton etc....
RW feel beauty is power. Many depend on their beauty to get the better things in life.

Most AW no longer hold beauty as top priority or as the means to get a better life. Most AW now depend on themselves alone for that better life and not look for a Man to give it to them.
In a sense they are requiring less from a Man financially.

AW and RW are no different when it comes to the people they will date. As a whole both will date a person close to their own age and within their league.

I think many have false impression that with RW they have better chance of finding someone much younger who is extremely attractive and far out of their league.

Truth is if you could find such a lady in the FSU you could also do so in the USA. It is not a norm but can be done in both places.
Here is why I feel Many believe this and say it cannot be done in USA.

It is an agencies job to build the average middle age Man's confidence that they can meet any lady they want in the FSU no matter age or beauty.
If they did not do this then they would never make money.

If a man had enough confidence to actually approach younger beautiful Women in the USA he would be surprised that his charm will win some over just as he would in the FSU. Problem is the confidence is not there to go after the American young beauties.

FSU agencies give that false confidence.

First when joining an agency site a Man is instantly bombarded with intro letters from Many young beautiful ladies.
This is an instant confidence booster. This is also where the HOOK is set to make the man in a sense Obsessed with FSU ladies.
Little do many know the lady themselves did not send those letters to begin with. However the fact that the man received them gave him the confidence to write the lady back that he never would have had the nerve to approach in the USA.

We all know that joining a USA Dating site you are left out to dry.
It is the Man who will have to write all first letters. These are also sites where no one is getting paid per letter. It is the real deal.
Men do not write to ladies out of their league out of fear of rejection.

Agencies mastered the art of taking away the fear. They know sending those INTRO letters to you only build the confidence.
In a Mans mind he is at ease because he received the letter first and thinks the lady must be interested. This now builds confidence for him to pursue the lady.

I think a Man will learn if he had the confidence to go after the same ladies in the USA he will see the same results.
What I mean by results is final outcome in a relationship.
Writting to ladies on line does not make results as far as I am concerned. Although it is easy for a man to write to ladies out of his league in the FSU when money is involved the question is how many of those ladies led to a real relationship?
In this sense I say results would be the same in USA.

Many Men comment how more beautiful FSU Women are.
USA has just as Many Beautiful Women.
All of us who have visited the FSU know not every lady walking in the street is drop dead gorgeous.
Agencies seek out the beautiful ladies. It is a business and these ladies sell.
Most websites will not put the other ladies on their site. They built a product and fantasy and they will stick to it.
Trust me I could go out and build a website of 10,000 beautiful AW women as well and have the whole world thinking AW are so beautiful because this is only what I presented to them.

I think if many really thought about it they would not start this journey.
It is built on fantasy and myth. But that fantasy and myth was enough to make a Man believe that the same results could not be achieved in his own backyard.

The odds of a Man meeting and marrying a much younger and beautiful Women in the FSU is actually the same odds as doing so in the USA. The only difference is the false confidence built by agencies for a Man to follow through in the FSU.

[Hub]

I agree with much and disagree with some.

Yes, there are many falsehoods about FSU women compared to AW.

In truth:

FSU women are not more beautiful than AW.
FSU women are not more educated than AW.
FSU women are not more intelligent than AW.
FSU women are not more cultured than AW.

FSU women are more materialistic than AW.

FSU women are more family oriented than AW . . . I can't say for sure on this one.

FSU women are more slender than AW

But, it is true that a man can trade up in many categories when he dates/marries a woman from FSU.

I disagree that a man could trade up to a better AW if he gave it a shot . . . on average I mean.

[Ravens9273]

I disagree that a man could trade up to a better AW if he gave it a shot . . . on average I mean.

Hub I will explain what I mean.

I know an agency working with Anastasia.
at present anastasia has over 56,000 Men listed on their site.

Out of that 56,000 Men how many do you think are actually going to get married to an FSU Women?

They all have the dream and that is reason they are there. If all those young hot ladies were willing to marry one of these Men then obviously the numbers would be in the 1000's to marriages.
However we all know this is false.

We all know the real numbers to marriages between FSU Women and Western Men as supose to how many begin the journey and look.

Out of the 56,000 would it be safe to say 10 will marry on that site. Even if we said 100 would marry or 200. With those numbers we all know the 200 out of the 56,000 to marry one of those ladies is very high.

Now you take the same 56,000 Men and have them pursue Younger beautiful American Women.
I think you will find the same numbers as to how many would result in marriages.

56,000 American men pursuing Much younger Beautiful Women in USA could also bring marriages as well.
It does happen in the USA as well.
The only difference is those 56,000 men were not giving the FALSE Confidence to try in the USA.

[SMS60]

FSU women are more materialistic than AW.

Im having trouble accepting this in general. Can you explain?

The American culture is all about material items. 90% of it is not needed to live a comfortable life.

[HiTech]

I tend to agree with hubs list more than ravens description. And we all agree that the hype is very very far from reality.

Raven I believe you have not proven your case, I think I would agree that if the same men put forth the effort into finding a younger good look woman in the USA as they do in the FSU, the same quantity would succeed.

But you have not really connected the reason of confidence. You have also not connected that the 2 good looking woman would have the other same traits.

While I agree that FSUW are materialist in the sense that they like to be showy on the out side. This quality on most FSUW does not go hand in hand with the completely self centric attitude that would be the case of a very materialist good looking young woman in the States.

HiTech

[groovlstk]

Im having trouble accepting this in general. Can you explain?

The American culture is all about material items. 90% of it is not needed to live a comfortable life.

I agree w/Ravens on this. In very general terms, you won't understand what "keeping up with the Joneses" means until you've hung out w/Russian or Ukrainian people for awhile 

[SMS60]

I agree w/Ravens on this. In very general terms, you won't understand what "keeping up with the Joneses" means until you've hung out w/Russian or Ukrainian people for awhile 

My bad, I apparently missed all the houses with 2 car garages packed with cars, boats, toys, exercise equipment, and just plain everything and anything on my trips. I must have been in the wrong part of the city.

[Boethius]

You were a tourist and had the tourist experience.

The reason you didn't see those things is not because of a lack of desire for them, but because of a lack of money to buy them.

[groovlstk]

My bad, I apparently missed all the houses with 2 car garages packed with cars, boats, toys, exercise equipment, and just plain everything and anything on my trips. I must have been in the wrong part of the city.

You're missing my point: it's the DESIRE to have a living standard above and beyond what friends and acquaintances have. This desire is all-consuming in some FSU people and specifically why they seek out foreign men.

I believe a lot of guys get lulled into thinking FSU women are less materialistic because they are forced to live more frugally in their native country. If they had the means to fill their garages up with toys, most would - and they would do it in an ostentatious manner so that everyone who passed by would know they were living a "better" life.

[Ravens9273]

I tend to agree with hubs list more than ravens description. And we all agree that the hype is very very far from reality.

Raven I believe you have not proven your case, I think I would agree that if the same men put forth the effort into finding a younger good look woman in the USA as they do in the FSU, the same quantity would succeed.

But you have not really connected the reason of confidence. You have also not connected that the 2 good looking woman would have the other same traits.

While I agree that FSUW are materialist in the sense that they like to be showy on the out side. This quality on most FSUW does not go hand in hand with the completely self centric attitude that would be the case of a very materialist good looking young woman in the States.

HiTech

HiTech,

The way I meant to present my case is if we take the average middle aged divorced man which most of can agree is the Norm for looking for FSU wife.

Most have been out of the dating scene for a long time and the results of a divorce do not always help ones confidence level.

Most Men in this situation are not comfortable with the dating scene and also inside feel who would want to date them. Especially they lack to confidence to pursue a much younger beautiful Women.
With this that man is not going to go out in the USA to pursue a Women. He is already set in his mind it is not going to happen and fear or rejection will keep him from trying.

Take this man and put his profile on any USA dating site. We are on a real world site where no money is being made by letters. Also most american Women will not pay for a dating site. They will wait for Men to write to them.
So now this Man gets no messages from ladies. He is also lacking in confidence to write to a lady out of his league afraid of rejection. Many here know the ordeal on American Dating sites.

Now show this Man Anastasias website.

he sees all the eye candy beautiful Young ladies. Then he sees the famous selling pitch and the biggest part of that pitch is how these ladies do not care about age or looks etc....

This is enough to make him join.
Once he joins he is flooded with letters from young hotties. So many letters from ladies that he did not get on the American Site.
Many here may not want to admit it. But this is what got them hooked to begin with. This was a major confidence booster when seeing all those letters in their inbox from such attractive ladies.

This Man now feels he has a shot and is obviously not afraid to write to one of these ladies because he already received contact from her. He is comfortable, he is confident and the journey begins.

The difference here is the sales pitch and the first contact is from ladies. That is all it takes to get a Man going and he is on a journey he normally would not have taken with Women he never would have had the nerve to make first contact with in USA.


However I feel if the same Men had that inner confidence these websites give them to actually pursue American Women we would see the same results in actual marriages.

The only difference is nothing is giving Men that confidence in the USA to start. These agencies have mastered the art of hooking Men in and keeping them by building the false fantasy this is all real.

I hpe that explains my case a little better.




 

[Ravens9273]

My bad, I apparently missed all the houses with 2 car garages packed with cars, boats, toys, exercise equipment, and just plain everything and anything on my trips. I must have been in the wrong part of the city.

SMS60

I fully believe if they had the same incomes as Americans do you will see alot more toys and designer clothes with mercedes etc in Ukraine and Russia then Americans.
Reason they do not is because of lack of income. It does not change the want factor though.

[Missouri-Hunter]

I believe a lot of guys get lulled into thinking FSU women are less materialistic because they are forced to live more frugally in their native country.

That's what I thought.

[Dave13]

How many of the 56,000 guys listed on the site, get their butt on the plane. Most of them are just keyboard Romeo's.

[Ravens9273]

How many of the 56,000 guys listed on the site, get their butt on the plane. Most of them are just keyboard Romeo's.

Dave13

How many of the 56,000 guys talk to the equivalent of an American Women as they do FSU Women?

Getting on the the plane is not the point. This is all a numbers game. My point is if the same 56,000 Men tried to meet the same type of American Women as they do FSU Women we would see the same end results in relationships.
If getting on a plane is a fator end results are still the same.

My point in this thread is the myths to RW are so outragous and they are not Better then AW as a whole.

The point of this thread is the BUSINESS around RW gives Men more confidence to pursue this journey then they would have on their own to pursue AW of equal value. I believe fully that this is where the additction to RW start for most men.

However my point is their odds are the same in marrying both AW and RW of equal quality. Just one side gives a false sense of security that helps Men go more in that direction to find something he normally would not pursue.

[Dave13]

Your right, it's all in the numbers, thats my point if you have 56,000 guys listed you have to take into account the actual number who travel to Russia.  Another point with the education, in 2007 only 28% of AW 25 years old have a Bachelor Degree, 32% only have a high school degree.

Dave

[GQBlues]

I agree w/Ravens on this. In very general terms, you won't understand what "keeping up with the Joneses" means until you've hung out w/Russian or Ukrainian people for awhile  

Based on my personal experience and what Ive seen so far, I can agree with this.

The truth to this I believe has more to do with the Impression of Wealth syndrome, and it's not necessarily isolated in FSU. They are fairly prevalent anywhere. However, they are much more pronounced on most impoverished societies, sectors, communities...etc. We see a lot of these behavior even in our inner city neighborhoods.

Russia/Ukraine, like many countries with the same economic state, at one point did not have a middle-class. The aspiration to impress as someone coming from a well-to-do sect have a direct correlation with some form of insecurities and are more prone to indulge in materialistic behavior. I think this trait is prevalent in all of us ~ in varying degrees.

Additionally, many will state that RWs are well-dressed and have a knack for fashion. IMO, that's arguable. One only simply surf the profiles on dating sites and you'll see some of the clothes these women don on their photo profiles. Left within their own resources, these profiles display more fashion faux than any other.

[Ravens9273]

I will add one other thing to this.

We all have seen many couples who have married (WM RW).

As of yet I would have to say 95% of the pictures of couples I have seen are evenly matched. The Women they married looked like Women they could have married in the USA. I have yet to see the trend that is handed to Men of finding much younger beautiful Women.

If 95% are evenly matched this adds to the myths.

In USA 95% of couples are evenly matched to each other with the 5% off odd couples. That could be May December relationships, or what ever.

The odds are the same.

This site is not full of married couple pictures of older Men with young models.

But the above statment is what is presented as what can happen if joining one of these sites.

Point being. Your odds are the same in USA as they are in FSU to marry the younger beautiful lady.
Odds are probably better to marry equally matched AW.

Those Men who did manage to Marry a much younger beautiful lady from FSU could have done the same with an AW had they put the same effort into doing so as they did an FSU Women.

[myrddin]

Most Men in this situation are not comfortable with the dating scene and also inside feel who would want to date them. Especially they lack to confidence to pursue a much younger beautiful Women.
With this that man is not going to go out in the USA to pursue a Women. He is already set in his mind it is not going to happen and fear or rejection will keep him from trying.

So now this Man gets no messages from ladies. He is also lacking in confidence to write to a lady out of his league afraid of rejection. Many here know the ordeal on American Dating sites.

Many here may not want to admit it. But this is what got them hooked to begin with.

OK, I admit it.  Some of it.   

My story was a little more complex.  I actually did approach many AW who I figured were probably out of my league, and many who I though weren't.  My confidence boosts didn't come from FSUW letters, but from my actual trip.

While starting to set up a profile on the dreaded Anastasia International, something clicked my internal Reality Check button. I thought, "maybe I can date out of my league a bit in Russia, but these are all supermodels!" 

So I went back to the Google search window and looked past the first few results.  That's how I discovered this forum and began to actually research the idea.  I learned that a lot of the hype was just that, but it seemed there were kernels of truth in there.  At the least, I thought about going to find out for myself.

However I feel if the same Men had that inner confidence these websites give them to actually pursue American Women we would see the same results in actual marriages.

Certainly confidence is a prime factor in attraction.  Confidence builds dating success, but the best thing to build confidence is dating success!  If I had as much positive dating experience in the US in one year as I did on my first trip in Ukraine, I likely wouldn't be involved in this pursuit.  Maybe I was lucky   

I do get the sense now that AW look at me differently.  Perhaps my US dating experience would be different if I re-entered the scene now, but I doubt my UW girlfriend would approve. 

I think a lot of your reasoning is sound, but I don't think agencies really care if they boost men's confidence.  Most of their money comes from the dreamers.

[Misha]

This desire is all-consuming in some FSU people and specifically why they seek out foreign men.

I am so happy that I dated women who weren't looking specifically for a foreign man.

If they had the means to fill their garages up with toys, most would - and they would do it in an ostentatious manner so that everyone who passed by would know they were living a "better" life.

Pretty much the case for many (most?) people there and here.

[GQBlues]

Those Men who did manage to Marry a much younger beautiful lady from FSU could have done the same with an AW had they put the same effort into doing so as they did an FSU Women.

I chalk this up to these older gentlemen as those who were once players in their heydays. I hold the belief that there's an underlying truth that playboys and players eventually have a better chance, or handle, in making lasting relationships if and when they do decide to zip-up someday.

[HiTech]

Getting on the the plane is not the point. This is all a numbers game. My point is if the same 56,000 Men tried to meet the same type of American Women as they do FSU Women we would see the same end results in relationships.
If getting on a plane is a fator end results are still the same.

All I can say my experience was slightly different. I contacted more woman of close to the same age group on Match.com as I did on the FSU sights. The big difference if found was.

1. The odds of getting any response was much greater on the FSU sights.
2. I was always shocked that even if I got a response on match, the odds of the woman saying yes to dinner/drinks/coffee what ever to meet was very low.

But I am not the norm of the men venturing to the FSU, because I have never been divorced.

But your theory could very well be valid.

HiTech

[Sculpto]

Talked to a buddy today in Chicago.. he broke up with the AW he was dating.. for just two months.. for revenge she told her appaently numerous creditors that he was her fiance and would take care of all her problems.  He is getting daily calls.

He is now considering finding a FSUW.

[Ravens9273]

Actually I would like to use KenC as an example.

KenC is one of the very few I have seen who did marry a much younger beautiful Woman.

I would not say this marriage occured because Lena was Russian.
I would also bet Lena did not set out to marry someone like Ken before meeting him.

Yet. The way KenC presented himself to Lena. How he carried himself to her is the reason she fell in love with him.
Her being Russian had nothing to do with it.

For this I would say KenC could have also met and married a much younger AW had he sought to do so.
How KenC presented and carried himself is reason he acomplished this. Has nothing to do with Lena being Russian.

In 1995 I worked with a Man who was 43 years old. He was married. His wife was overweight and you can tell the two were not really married anymore other then finally filing for divorce. He on the other hand took good care of himself. He ran daily and was in good shape. He also had a taste for much younger Women (early 20's) and managed many affairs with them. Recently I joined facebook and something made me look him up. After searches I did find him. At first I did not know if I found the right person. Additional searches led me to myspace profile as well. The person i found was him. He divorced his other wife and is now married to a 25 year old with a new child. He is now 58. She is an AW.
He always had the taste for younger Women and knew how to get them when I knew him back in 1995. It can be done in the USA as well.

My post is by no means putting any Man down and hope no one takes it that way.
My post is saying that in reality we all could marry just as easy in the USA.
My point is for the many who came here believing the hype and their reason to go the FSU route for a wife is false.

Many here just have an attraction to FSU Women over AW. To those. I say go for it!!!
It may be the accent, culture difference etc...

But there are some that come here because of the hype and they believe it is easier to find a spouse in the FSU.
I am simply implying it is not easier and they can have same success in USA if the same effort was put into it.
Many have written limited financial situations. In this case I hope they know that the FSU is not their only option. All they need is the little boost and they can also find there special someone right here in the gold ole USA.
Not to mention saving alot of $$$ on the way.

[Misha]

My post is saying that in reality we all could marry just as easy in the USA.

Why don't they?

But there are some that come here because of the hype and they believe it is easier to find a spouse in the FSU.

The fact of the matter is that dating in Russia was a lot easier than dating in my city. I could date and marry a woman in Russia that I could not have easily found and married in my city.

[ambach123]

Quote "The odds of a Man meeting and marrying a much younger and beautiful Women in the FSU is actually the same odds as doing so in the USA. The only difference is the false confidence built by agencies for a Man to follow through in the FSU. "

You should tell this to Turboguy, who at 66 married a kockout girl of 27. The examples abound of men marrying 15, 20 or more years younger wives. And please don't tell me that " Turboguy's marriage would not last "; yeah right, and the guy with two nickels, who married his own age, would last a lifetime.
Do you know what is the number one cause of divorces in USA? Do a search, here is a hint, it is not age discrepancy.

Do a search on EM, many women specifically ask for older men.
Here is a link for your perusal.
http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/792/792443P1.html?il=3233388
It is absolutely naive to believe that an AM would go six thousands miles away for what he can find right here.

Money and power has always bought youth and beauty since the advent of time; this is not my line, it has always been that way.
I have known three RW well, they were all different; those from the cities are usually very  materialistic, those from the villages not necessarily so.
Many people in this pursuit have nothing to do with agencies, for them Anastasia or whatever is irrelevant. The fact is that RW are not any BETTER than AW, but they sure are a lot younger and prettier.