Recent trip to Kharkov, return is booked already

[erudite]

My eyebrow raises when I read this (and the in-between-lines of other things you wrote.
I'm not sure if what you do is good, because I get the impression that you were spending quite a lot more than you would do at home and this can easily give a wrong impression to the women you meet. It can be a disappointing surprise to find out that your day-to-day life is different from what they have experienced in UA. Be careful!

Thanks for the TR!

j.

When I am in the USA, I have a good time period if I can afford it. So that is the way I am in Ukraine. I went to Ukraine as a vacation as much as anything and if you are a man who does not wine and dine a woman you are hoping to develop a relationship with (anywhere in the world), I would hate to see what you wound up with.  If you had read my previous posting to Daveman, you would realize what a bargain I was pointing out to him about the dining and entertainment in Ukraine is compared to the nicer places in the USA.  What works for someone else may not work for you.  There is a McDonalds on Pushkinskaya Street if the better restaurants are not to your liking. The women I met all know when it is time to celebrate with me and when it is time to kick back and lay low. I do not know a woman alive who does not love to be wined and dined, even someone's wife they have been married to for thirty or more years.  

[Faux Pas]

When I am in the USA, I have a good time period if I can afford it. So that is the way I am in Ukraine. I went to Ukraine as a vacation as much as anything and if you are a man who does not wine and dine a woman you are hoping to develop a relationship with (anywhere in the world), I would hate to see what you wound up with.  If you had read my previous posting to Daveman, you would realize what a bargain I was pointing out to him about the dining and entertainment in Ukraine is compared to the nicer places in the USA.  What works for someone else may not work for you.  There is a McDonalds on Pushkinskaya Street if the better restaurants are not to your liking. The women I met all know when it is time to celebrate with me and when it is time to kick back and lay low. I do not know a woman alive who does not love to be wined and dined, even someone's wife they have been married to for thirty or more years.  

My eyebrow raises when I read this (and the in-between-lines of other things you wrote.
I'm not sure if what you do is good, because I get the impression that you were spending quite a lot more than you would do at home and this can easily give a wrong impression to the women you meet. It can be a disappointing surprise to find out that your day-to-day life is different from what they have experienced in UA. Be careful!

Thanks for the TR!

j.

I am in complete agreement with erudite. I try not to spend like a drunken sailor but, I don't like to do meals or entertainment on the cheap either. Life is too short to be counting pennies when you should be enjoying yourself. If the lady you are visiting doesn't know the difference maybe, you are visiting the wrong lady.

[erudite]

I am in complete agreement with erudite. I try not to spend like a drunken sailor but, I don't like to do meals or entertainment on the cheap either. Life is too short to be counting pennies when you should be enjoying yourself. If the lady you are visiting doesn't know the difference maybe, you are visiting the wrong lady.

TOUCHE' !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You and I are on the same thought pattern and lifestyle philosophy.  Not hedonistic but sybaritic.

[Daveman]

I am in complete agreement with erudite. I try not to spend like a drunken sailor but, I don't like to do meals or entertainment on the cheap either. Life is too short to be counting pennies when you should be enjoying yourself. If the lady you are visiting doesn't know the difference maybe, you are visiting the wrong lady.

while in essence I agree as well, Janic does have a point. Even the "good" RW can have a tendency to view situations a little differently than we do, and thus "miss the obvious", or what we think should be obvious.  If one goes over there blowing a bunch of moolah, that gives her an impression of his nature... and one thought she could take away from that is "this will be my life but he is modest so says he's only on vacation"... whether stupid or not, that kind of thought process can be quite real. 

Your trips, your money, your life, erudite, so enjoy them how you want. Just understand that SHE may see/understand situations and actions in an little or even entirely different way than you do. Just something to keep in mind.

[groovlstk]

while in essence I agree as well, Janic does have a point. Even the "good" RW can have a tendency to view situations a little differently than we do, and thus "miss the obvious", or what we think should be obvious.  If one goes over there blowing a bunch of moolah, that gives her an impression of his nature... and one thought she could take away from that is "this will be my life but he is modest so says he's only on vacation"... whether stupid or not, that kind of thought process can be quite real. 

Your trips, your money, your life, erudite, so enjoy them how you want. Just understand that SHE may see/understand situations and actions in an little or even entirely different way than you do. Just something to keep in mind.

Dave is correct, and Erudite you'd do well to tuck this in your back pocket as an FYI. If you check out the discussion forums used by RW in the US you'd be shocked at how many complain that they had no idea what their living standard would be like in the US as before they arrived they thought hubby was going to live and spend in the same manner as he did during their meetings/vacations. Most of these couples are/were one-week-wonders, but if you get serious with a woman don't underestimate the difficulty in explaining to her what your living standards and day-to-day life is like. It seems an easy no-brainer, but it's not.

[Faux Pas]

while in essence I agree as well, Janic does have a point. Even the "good" RW can have a tendency to view situations a little differently than we do, and thus "miss the obvious", or what we think should be obvious.  If one goes over there blowing a bunch of moolah, that gives her an impression of his nature... and one thought she could take away from that is "this will be my life but he is modest so says he's only on vacation"... whether stupid or not, that kind of thought process can be quite real. 

Your trips, your money, your life, erudite, so enjoy them how you want. Just understand that SHE may see/understand situations and actions in an little or even entirely different way than you do. Just something to keep in mind.

I dunno Dave. I think I read erudite correctly. He likes, appreciates fine food, fine dining and doesn't mind paying for it. I'm the same way. I could spend 5 bucks at MickeyD's and get p!ssed and by the same token I don't mind spending $3-400 on a great meal for two and be completely satisfied. As for the lady's perception, that is going to depend on the lady. By all means explain the situation.

I do understand Janic's and your point as well but any woman thinking such happens everyday and every meal probably isn't a woman that should be pursued IMO. For many of them it can be a first experience for such a treat and does need to be discussed but, not over discussed. I do eat and enjoy in Russia the same as I do at home. I do find that the bang for the buck is bigger in Russia at some finer restaurants as opposed to home. I enjoy that. I also don't mind spoiling her and treating her to a fine meal or two during each of my visits. I do that at home too.

I don't spend like a drunken sailor on any of my visits but I don't hesitate to spend for our pleasure and enjoyment. It never hurts to pamper your woman. I've done it all my life. 

[Daveman]

I dunno Dave. I think I read erudite correctly. He likes, appreciates fine food, fine dining and doesn't mind paying for it. I'm the same way. I could spend 5 bucks at MickeyD's and get p!ssed and by the same token I don't mind spending $3-400 on a great meal for two and be completely satisfied. As for the lady's perception, that is going to depend on the lady. By all means explain the situation.

I do understand Janic's and your point as well but any woman thinking such happens everyday and every meal probably isn't a woman that should be pursued IMO. For many of them it can be a first experience for such a treat and does need to be discussed but, not over discussed. I do eat and enjoy in Russia the same as I do at home. I do find that the bang for the buck is bigger in Russia at some finer restaurants as opposed to home. I enjoy that. I also don't mind spoiling her and treating her to a fine meal or two during each of my visits. I do that at home too.

I don't spend like a drunken sailor on any of my visits but I don't hesitate to spend for our pleasure and enjoyment. It never hurts to pamper your woman. I've done it all my life. 

here's the difference as I see it.  The bulk of the information an FSUW has about life in the west is what she sees on TV whereas with an AW, she will understand your lifestyle almost immediately by your occupation and where you live. 

Combine that lack of any real knowledge, or point of reference, with the absolute fact that many (if not all) of these ladies view many situations entirely differently than we do, i.e., draw conclusions based on some logic which doesn't exist anywhere in the known universe outside FSU and you have a recipe for serious misconceptions.  IMO, unless she can get a tourist visa to come over and see exactly where/how a man lives, each one will have a varying degree of mismatch between her dreams of life with a specific man and what that reality would ultimately be.  That discrepancy is the problem, leading to her being pleasantly surprised or to her disappointment. 

During the dating/courting process, she is creating dreams of and drawing conclusions about the future - from her perspective which most likely will not coincide with her future experience.   I can't count the times that I've had the thought in my head "Where in the world did you come up with THAT??"  about an array of topics. This topic isn't much different in that regard.   The conclusions they will draw from seemingly innocuous events, words, whatever, can be astounding and almost unbelievable -- from our perspective.  There's a little more to the puzzle here than the normal mars/Venus differences between men and women.  It can be as minor as "Men are from Mars, Women are from Planet X", to "Men are from Mars, Women are from a super massive black hole where western logic and reason are sucked inside, destroyed against the singularity and cease to exist". 

Over time, she will learn his system and understand the western mindset much more clearly, but in the beginning, not only will they (man/woman) sometimes be on different pages, but often in different books entirely.  That truly can't be stressed enough -- and I'll add that I've only dated highly intelligent ladies.  It's ain't about the intelligence, it's about the common sense of perspective.  What is common to us, is not always to them, and vice versa.

erudite, and any other guy new to all of this really, really, really, needs to keep that in mind.

Now, all that ramble being blathered, I like to blow some money on the finer things too. 

[JR]

An old truism:

What it takes to her is what it'll take to keep her.

[erudite]

My philosophy is not about "splurging". It is about having fun and enjoying oneself. I think any woman in the world can understand that philosophy, especially when we eat pizza at home and watch TV as often as we go out on the town. I never met a woman who did not like to be treated "special" as she understood the term. Doesn't matter what you spend, it is how you are with her and how you are towards her.

[Sculpto]

The bottom line is if Erudite can reliably afford the same lifestyle he has on display when he traveled whats the problem?

But, I also agree with everyone else with guys that go wild spending beyond their normal habits are creating a false impression that probably will lead to disappointment. 

[Daveman]

My philosophy is not about "splurging". It is about having fun and enjoying oneself. I think any woman in the world can understand that philosophy, especially when we eat pizza at home and watch TV as often as we go out on the town. I never met a woman who did not like to be treated "special" as she understood the term. Doesn't matter what you spend, it is how you are with her and how you are towards her.

And I agree with you. Your philosophy is perfect for an AW who sees the world similarly to the way you do.  If you go into these FSU situations with this philosophy guiding you, and also expect her, by some natural osmosis of the universe, to see the situation the same as you -- your chance of a pretty rude awakening increases.

There are FSU ladies who are more open minded, grounded, yet also share romantic dreams... and you may have met, are now communicating with one of these.  Time will tell -- just don't blind yourself with assumptions.

[Misha]

My philosophy is not about "splurging". It is about having fun and enjoying oneself. I think any woman in the world can understand that philosophy, especially when we eat pizza at home and watch TV as often as we go out on the town.

Fortunately for me, I found a woman who defines having fun to including going for hikes in the forest, biking along a great trail and camping next to a pristine lake.

I never met a woman who did not like to be treated "special" as she understood the term. Doesn't matter what you spend, it is how you are with her and how you are towards her.

Treating her as "special" often entails things that do not cost money: listening attentively to what she has to say and simply being there for her when she needs you.

[Faux Pas]

Fortunately for me, I found a woman who defines having fun to including going for hikes in the forest, biking along a great trail and camping next to a pristine lake.

Treating her as "special" often entails things that do not cost money: listening attentively to what she has to say and simply being there for her when she needs you.

True. But, treating her special ALSO includes spending money on her. Showering attention and affection, listening is also complimented by a small gift or a night on the town or a fine dinner. When one includes all the above it could be defined as romancing. I haven't personally found a woman who does not love to be romanced. Most women will allow someone they are interested in to not initially spend any money but, over time she will wonder what she sees in that cheap bastard. If you continue to avoid spending money on her she will coin you with that or some similar term

You can romance without spending money but only to a point. You can buy a woman's affection but only to a point. You can listen to gain her trust but only to a point. It's when you can display all these and other qualities and they recognize it, that you can win her.

Some women (like some men) want nothing but money and that is all that matters and is important to them. They should be avoided at all cost. Those people require you to recognize them for what and who they are. If you proceed, you deserve what you receive.

[Misha]

You can romance without spending money but only to a point. You can buy a woman's affection but only to a point. You can listen to gain her trust but only to a point. It's when you can display all these and other qualities and they recognize it, that you can win her.

I spent very little "romancing" my wife. Our first date was at a cafe. Spent 1000 rubles if memory serves me right. We did not go to any fancy restaurants. Did go to Moscow, but stayed in a modest hotel charging 2000 rubles per night. I spent a few thousand rubles on a ring for her birthday two months into our courtship. All told, wooed her with my wit and charm and not my wallet  :evil: Will be celebrating three years of marriage in October.

[Faux Pas]

I spent very little "romancing" my wife. Our first date was at a cafe. Spent 1000 rubles if memory serves me right. We did not go to any fancy restaurants. Did go to Moscow, but stayed in a modest hotel charging 2000 rubles per night. I spent a few thousand rubles on a ring for her birthday two months into our courtship. All told, wooed her with my wit and charm and not my wallet  :evil: Will be celebrating three years of marriage in October.

WOW! 2000 rubles per night? I only spent 1000 per night on each of my trips but of course I do stay in an apartment. Most of our meals outside the apartment are at the lower end cafes and less than 1000 rubles each time. Does that make my fiancee a better woman than your wife on the cheap bastard scale? Don't answer that, I am being facetious. We also enjoy a fine meal a time or two each visit that reaches 5-7000 rubles. I spend the same way at home.

There has been a line of thought in this thread that such spending or behavior is bad and has a negative effect on a FSUW. My contention is don't spend any different than you usually do. When the relationship progresses explain spending habits. I was not above wining and dining a AW at a fine dining establishment. Not everyday, but regularly. That is my lifestyle and I don't shy from it or apologize for it.

Like erudite, when on vacation I do tend to splurge more than everyday life. The idea that FSUW don't know the difference is absurd. Thats the same idea that they are stupid and can't understand. I don't know about your wife Misha but, my fiancee certainly does understand. 

[kievstar]

faux pas, I would agree with your last post and my Russian wife knows vacations we spend more than normal. 

[ECOCKS]

I love how this question of "maintenance" always seems to come up about women, no matter what their nationality.

Like FP and (I think) Misha described, I consider myself lucky to fall for a woman who enjoys "good" things more than she enjoys "expensive" or "ostentatious" ones. A fun afternoon for her is a Barnes and Noble bookstore where she can sample two or three books while enjoying a double shot of expresso and a Granny Smith Apple pastry. We have been there at least a dozen times in the last couple of months, once for seven and a half hours. She thinks our BBQ can produce better grilled salmon than anywhere we could go out to and two weeks of tent camping ended with asking if we could camp at Yellowstone.  

Camping at Yellowstone Park is higher on her list than Seattle although she is looking forward to spending two weeks there in August - ferry rides, bookstore coffeeshops, Long Beach and the Olympic Penninsula are things she's planning.

If you klnow what you want in your woman, be patient, you'll find her.

[Misha]

Like erudite, when on vacation I do tend to splurge more than everyday life. The idea that FSUW don't know the difference is absurd. Thats the same idea that they are stupid and can't understand. I don't know about your wife Misha but, my fiancee certainly does understand. 

Of course, my wife understands, but the question is how you get to know your wife/husband. If you only know them on "vacation" it can be hard to understand what the person may be like in real life, daily life, when not on vacation. I was fortunate in that my wife had relatives in Germany and had probably spent close to two years living in Germany over the past decade. She already had a very good idea as to what typical middle-class life was like in the West and the challenges that immigrants face adapting to their new countries.

[Daveman]

There has been a line of thought in this thread that such spending or behavior is bad and has a negative effect on a FSUW.

If I came across that way, it was not my intent. I don't think it is bad to spend money on a woman. I think it is bad to assume that she interprets any behavior the same way we do.  Money is just another topic of many where assumptions can cause problems, and not necessarily in obvious ways.

[Faux Pas]

If I came across that way, it was not my intent. I don't think it is bad to spend money on a woman. I think it is bad to assume that she interprets any behavior the same way we do.  Money is just another topic of many where assumptions can cause problems, and not necessarily in obvious ways.

Is that because she is an FSUW or because she is female?

I see the direction you and Misha have been going and I even agree to a point but, what we are discussing is human nature and not a cultural difference. FSUW tend to splurge when they are on vacation too. Granted many times their budgets are more limited and their restraint is much stronger but it is the same. Just on a different scale. An intelligent woman is going to understand this and it doesn't really matter where she is from, does it?

[kievstar]

I think it is good that a couple have common interests (hiking, Barnes and noble etc).  But people need to remember everyone has different levels of comfort and interests and a woman who wants a 5 star vacation compared to a woman who wants a hiking trip does not mean the 5 star woman is bad and high maintenance nor the woman wanting the hiking trip.  What is important the couples are both happy and doing something they both enjoy.  Cocks and Daveman probably do not want to spend 10K on a week long  5 star vacation just like I would not want to spend a week in the woods in a tent. 

Find a wife who matches the lifestyle you both want.  Seems like Ecocks has and is very happy. 

I do think guys who meet women without writing have an advantage you can learn a lot on a 1st meeting when a woman is not prepared with months of letter writing.  Very easy to see if chemistry exists.  The real chemistry - not the physical stuff.

[erudite]

It looks like my September trip to Kharkov will be postponed a short time. But I will be going ASAP after the SNAFU gets worked out with the delay. I cannot wait to get on the plane to go. I can feel the air and smell the city already.  Thanks for all your comments and replies.

[erudite]

I will be going to Kharkov in mid March and will make a trip report when I get back to the USA in April. Mila Lobunko and her husband Anton will be my guides and translators. I have about 8 (as of now) prospects I have been writing and calling and Mila has some women for me to meet as well. I expect they will start shaking out pretty quick once we start meeting face to face.

[Faux Pas]

I will be going to Kharkov in mid March and will make a trip report when I get back to the USA in April. Mila Lobunko and her husband Anton will be my guides and translators. I have about 8 (as of now) prospects I have been writing and calling and Mila has some women for me to meet as well. I expect they will start shaking out pretty quick once we start meeting face to face.

Sweet! Look forward to reading it

[JR]

I will be going to Kharkov in mid March and will make a trip report when I get back to the USA in April. Mila Lobunko and her husband Anton will be my guides and translators. I have about 8 (as of now) prospects I have been writing and calling and Mila has some women for me to meet as well. I expect they will start shaking out pretty quick once we start meeting face to face.

I wonder if we're writing to some of the same women