College Educated v. Non College Educated Women

[pitbull]

How do you think BC sees the Doktor Nauk?

I am not sure about BC per se, but I know that MIT sees Doktor Nauk as a PhD. As far as I know, it depends on where and who evaluates a degree. Therefore I was really surprised to get a PhD for my "Kandidat Nauk". I can only speculate that it is because I have both BA and MA, and then PhD, and have enough credits/years of education to justify such generous evaluation.

[Hub]

Soviet and Russian Kandidat Nauk status is equal to western Ph.D.

Not true.  Soviet, Russian and Ukrainian Kandidat is like someone in west who is pursuing a PhD as a candidate.  He/she is working on or has completed the coursework and maybe even completed final written and oral exams, but has not presented, defended and had accepted a dissertation.

As ecocks said, in the west we refer to such as ABD; All but dissertation.
Many thousands of ABDs in USA who never finish an acceptable dissertation.

[jdk1963]

Ambach, repeating something does not make it true. As I keen noting, highly educated RW can find jobs in their professions in North America. It simply takes time and occasionally some extra training. I can attest to the fact that a woman who was competent and driven in her country of origin, will eventually succeed in her new country. She won't usually have a job waiting when gets off the plane, but within five years or ten years, she will be doing fine, usually no worse than back home. The biggest barrier is language.

You're absolutely correct.  I would add that the key is being driven.  I know of at least one woman who is not exactly competent in her profession and after ~20 years still struggles with basic English.  She managed to land a government job in her field.

[Taz]

Ambach- it would interesting if at some point you would elaborate about the women you met in the past 3 meetings. What actually happened. Each women seemed like she was going to be the ONE and that you had such a good connection.

It would likely be interesting to many here to understand what went wrong so they could learn from your experiences.

I wouldn't place too much emphasis solely on education and how it might relate to the suitability of the woman as a housewife. I dated a very highly educated woman who would have been a great housewife and another woman who wasn't so well educated who wanted nothing more than a serious professional career. It really comes down to the desire of each woman. It is obviously something you should speak with her in initial communication to get a feel for what she wants to do. It is very tough to discern this from just what is written in a profile.

[Sculpto]

Ambach- it would interesting if at some point you would elaborate about the women you met in the past 3 meetings. What actually happened. Each women seemed like she was going to be the ONE and that you had such a good connection.

It would likely be interesting to many here to understand what went wrong so they could learn from your experiences.

I wouldn't place too much emphasis solely on education and how it might relate to the suitability of the woman as a housewife. I dated a very highly educated woman who would have been a great housewife and another woman who wasn't so well educated who wanted nothing more than a serious professional career. It really comes down to the desire of each woman. It is obviously something you should speak with her in initial communication to get a feel for what she wants to do. It is very tough to discern this from just what is written in a profile.

Not only that, but, if Ambach would step up with some transparency and sincerity I for one would stop picking on him.  Probably others feel the same.

[ambach123]

Taz you asked a question very politely, so I will try to answer briefly. Though my experiences are not all that important and may or may not be carried over to others.
I met with three women, two Ukrainian and one Russian. At least I thought that there were differences but that is for another day. I met with them for about ten days each, one I met twice.
They were all about thirty or so, highly educated with Masters's degrees. Two were business majors, and one in Russian history which she teaches in a University. They were attractive, elegant and could communicate in English. They all claimed that they were head over heels in love, though I did not believe that. I think the allure of good life in USA that may have colored their behaviour. All of the three were admantly opposed to doing menial jobs in USA, and since they did not have to with me, that was a clear positive for them.
We all also know that a RW can make you feel very good. Without going into details, those who know them, know what I mean. And they all did. The way a RW treats her lover is nothing like an American woman does. Those are pleasantly etched in my memory.
About financial matters, they asked probing questions, even when I did not answer, the way I treated them was self evident; they could put two and two together.
One thing I have learned on this board, that marrying a RW is easy, keeping the marriage is the difficult part. Somehow I have trepidations that I have not been able to shake.
So it is not that I have any lack of choices, I am jittery and fearful of unknown.
I still hear from two of them regularly, they plead for " One more meeting ", one has given up .  Part of me thinks, that I should end the search, the other part says decisions made in haste are repented in leisure.

[Taz]

So did you not trust their expressions of interest in you? In other words they said they cared/loved about you but you felt they were more drawn to your wealth? If so, amend your approach and try something different. Don't flaunt your wealth. Downplay it a bit and see what you get. Go fishing with gold and you will get gold diggers!

[ambach123]

Taz, you have never met me, but ask some of those who have met me on this board and seveal people have; it takes you ten seconds to know that I come from a distinct class. ( Greg from Ga met me in Kiev) and there are others. Now I could buy jeans, and look like a bum, but that would not be me. I am what I am. Most of the times I did not answer their many probing questions, but I am sure they figured it out for themselves.
They were unwilling to work in USA in menial jobs, I had to explain them that as my wife they would not have too, because I had the wherewithall to and would support them. I believe if I did not tell them that, the relationship would be over.

I don't call them gold diggers, RW with  Masters degrees do not want to work as a shop assistant, that is quite natural for a woman from any country.
Unfortunately most of USA is a two income society, at least in the cities, and the only job they can get, at least in the beginning are menial jobs. " Eventually " they can get non menial jobs, but some of them are unwilling to go through the drill.

I have said that many times, it happened to me three times, if you make a well educated RW work in a menial job, that is kiss of death for the relationship at any stage.

By the way RW give a lot of credence to the way you dress, and you carry yourself. Never underestimate that.

[Sculpto]

Ambach.. I still don't get it.  You like to flaunt your wealth, yet, you find fault with the women who are attracted to it.  Why not just let them be who they are, pick a lady who makes you happy, and get on with it?

[Taz]

Ambach - I am not saying to be somebody other than yourself but you seem to define yourself more by your wealth than you personality. How can women really see your personality if the first thing that is visible about you is only affluence?

I am not poor but I try to dress down a bit. I don't flaunt what I have. I dress nice but tastefully. I want to impress them with my character, not my possessions. I can assure you that you are not rich enough to compete with the truly rich class in Russia. You are a peon in comparison. Better to impress a woman with your kind and attentive character rather than buy her love. Unfortunately many people here have never seen your kind and attentive character so if you have one, it would help to show it here as well.

If all you have to offer is $$$, then I doubt you will ever receive the love you seek. I suggest you downplay your wealth and be yourself. If yourself is inextricably tied with your wealth, then you have issues. A good man is not good just because he is rich and a man is not bad because he is poor.

If your wealth is preventing women from getting to know YOU, then do something about making a smaller financial impression. I am sure you are smart and savvy enough to figure this out. After all you made all this money didn't you? You should be able to separate the 2 aspects of your life? Is going to kill you to stay in a normal apartment for a few days instead of a 5 star hotel or are you so hung up on it that your wealth is your indentity now? If that is the only way someone can measure your character is by the depth of your wallet, you will only find gold diggers...

[Ade]

Ambach - I am not saying to be somebody other than yourself but you seem to define yourself more by your wealth than you personality. How can women really see your personality if the first thing that is visible about you is only affluence?

I am not poor but I try to dress down a bit. I don't flaunt what I have. I dress nice but tastefully. I want to impress them with my character, not my possessions. I can assure you that you are not rich enough to compete with the truly rich class in Russia. You are a peon in comparison. Better to impress a woman with your kind and attentive character rather than buy her love. Unfortunately many people here have never seen your kind and attentive character so if you have one, it would help to show it here as well.

If all you have to offer is $$$, then I doubt you will ever receive the love you seek. I suggest you downplay your wealth and be yourself. If yourself is inextricably tied with your wealth, then you have issues. A good man is not good just because he is rich and a man is not bad because he is poor.

If your wealth is preventing women from getting to know YOU, then do something about making a smaller financial impression. I am sure you are smart and savvy enough to figure this out. After all you made all this money didn't you? You should be able to separate the 2 aspects of your life? Is going to kill you to stay in a normal apartment for a few days instead of a 5 star hotel or are you so hung up on it that your wealth is your indentity now? If that is the only way someone can measure your character is by the depth of your wallet, you will only find gold diggers...

Now that was an excellent post although I think you are pissing against the wind when it comes to talking any sort of sense into Ambach.

[facetrock]

Quote from Ambach:  it takes you ten seconds to know I come from a distinct class.


Sadly, Ambach tells everything about himself with that statement.

[Lily]

Not true.  Soviet, Russian and Ukrainian Kandidat is like someone in west who is pursuing a PhD as a candidate.  He/she is working on or has completed the coursework and maybe even completed final written and oral exams, but has not presented, defended and had accepted a dissertation.

As ecocks said, in the west we refer to such as ABD; All but dissertation.
Many thousands of ABDs in USA who never finish an acceptable dissertation.

Hub,

The Kandidat Nauk degree is awarded only after a successfully written, presented and defended dissertation before a commission of scientists.

May I explain a typical FSU way to this degree. When a University graduate feels a potential to complete and defend a dissertation, he or she finds himself a scientifical supervisor (probably in Germany it is called a' Doktorfather' ) and enters in Aspirantura, being then considered as an Aspirant of certain renouned scientist in the field, usually a Doktor Nauk himself. The Aspirantura usually lasts 3 years. During these years, the Aspirant is supposed to make his investigations, to write and complete his Dissertation, to get published here and there, to pass a few exams called Kandidatsky Minimum (specialty exam, one foreign language , smth else) and arrange for the state commission of scientists in order to present and defend his Dissertation. A few time after the defense, he heards good news that the state commission approved his efforts, and receives a Diploma Book informing that a degree of Kandidat Nauk was awarded to him. Now he is a proud holder of first scientifical degree of Kandidat Nauk in the FSU.

Up to you to decide whether this process is similar to getting a Ph.D. in the West and whether they may be considered equivalent.

If you feel confused by the words 'aspirant' and 'candidate', I can quote an anecdote from my childhood. When I was little, I knew that I will pursue a career in linguistic and would strive to promotion. I asked my mother, 'Why people are called aspirants? What they aspire to became?'
 'It's simple', she replied. 'Every aspirant aspires to get a Kandidat Nauk' degree the soonest, so they work hard for it'.
 'But Mama, why a Kandidat Nauk is called Kandidat? If this is already a degree, what is he up to with his candidacy?'
'Hmm, Lily, the Soviet scientific world is ambitious and assumes that every Kandidat Nauk is in fact a candidate for becoming a Doktor Nauk later.  Hence the word. However, only very few among many Kandidats really can make it to a Doktor Nauk.'

All but dissertation would translate Aspirant in Russian, apparently.

[Hub]

Hub,

The Kandidat Nauk degree is awarded only after a successfully written, presented and defended dissertation before a commission of scientists.

May I explain a typical FSU way to this degree. When a University graduate feels a potential to complete and defend a dissertation, he or she finds himself a scientifical supervisor (probably in Germany it is called a' Doktorfather' ) and enters in Aspirantura, being then considered as an Aspirant of certain renowned scientist in the field, usually a Doktor Nauk himself. The Aspirantura usually lasts 3 years. During these years, the Aspirant is supposed to make his investigations, to write and complete his Dissertation, to get published here and there, to pass a few exams called Kandidatsky Minimum (specialty exam, one foreign language , smth else) and arrange for the state commission of scientists in order to present and defend his Dissertation. A few time after the defense, he hears good news that the state commission approved his efforts, and receives a Diploma Book informing that a degree of Kandidat Nauk was awarded to him. Now he is a proud holder of first scientifical degree of Kandidat Nauk in the FSU.

Up to you to decide whether this process is similar to getting a Ph.D. in the West and whether they may be considered equivalent.

If you feel confused by the words 'aspirant' and 'candidate', I can quote an anecdote from my childhood. When I was little, I knew that I will pursue a career in linguistic and would strive to promotion. I asked my mother, 'Why people are called aspirants? What they aspire to became?'
 'It's simple', she replied. 'Every aspirant aspires to get a Kandidat Nauk' degree the soonest, so they work hard for it'.
 'But Mama, why a Kandidat Nauk is called Kandidat? If this is already a degree, what is he up to with his candidacy?'
'Hmm, Lily, the Soviet scientific world is ambitious and assumes that every Kandidat Nauk is in fact a candidate for becoming a Doktor Nauk later.  Hence the word. However, only very few among many Kandidats really can make it to a Doktor Nauk.'

All but dissertation would translate Aspirant in Russian, apparently.

Lily, thanks for your excellent presentation of facts and the process as you understand it.  Concerning your words:  "Up to you to decide whether this process is similar to getting a Ph.D. in the West and whether they may be considered equivalent."

Let's think of this in a logical way.  In USA, the PhD is the highest and final academic/scientific degree.  In the FSU system, Doktor Nauk is the highest and final academic/scientific degree.  Thus Kandidat is something less than a PhD and Doktor Nauk.  If the PhD weren't considered as high level as the Doktor Nauk, rest assured that the academic community would have long ago introduced a new degree program higher than the PhD.

Many, but not all, masters degrees in USA require a dissertation or thesis; and coursework and thesis in such a program are usually completed in one and a half to two years.  It seems that Kandidat is somewhere between masters degree and PhD.

[Gator]

Ambach,

Thanks for revealing more about the three women you met.  By opening up, you may connect better with your antagonists and stop being a lightening rod.

Although we now know more, I still do not understand WHY you dropped these women.  The only reasoning based on what we know and can infer is that each professed love too soon (which would bother me some coming so soon in the relationship), each refused to work in a menial job (meaning they would depend upon you for a long time), each were impressed by your show of wealth, and each consented to sex.

What are you looking for that is different?  The polar opposite of these women is someone who expresses no affection, wants to work at a menial job as part of her adjustment and enlightenment, is more interested in spiritual rather than material parts of life, and refuses to have sex with you.  Is this your dream woman?

Without any more information it appears that:

- you do not know what you want, or

- all you want is a sex filled 10 days with a RW under the illusion of a GFE, or

-  you are lining up as many different candidates as possible and will select the best one for Stage Two when you are ready for Stage Two.

Each of these is a reason why some men here are attacking you at every opportunity.  They are serious about RW and they infer that you are not serious.  Do you now understand the source of their disapproval?

You claim to be a businessman.  If so, you understand mission statements.  What is your mission statement about this pursuit?  


  

 

 

[ambach123]

Gator, your assessment is fairly accurate; you know about this pursuit more than most people or at least I would ever know.

I have jitters before signing on the dotted line, I mean the K-1.

It is all the bad experiences I have read on this board. I wish it was not so, but they are here, the archives are full of them.

At some point and time I will get over my jitters, and go to stage two.

The method I have used is WOVO, that in itself is very risky, however luckily, all my experiences were terrific. RW are excellent company, they are attractive, intelligent, sexy among other things; at least that is my experience, I am just not sure, if they would remain the same, long term. I am surprised myself, that having never met any of them beforehand, we had such a good time, three times.

They can show so much joy just talking on the phone, sometimes I would call them after I returned, just to hear the boundless joy and enthusiasm in their voice. You can imagine, how much joy they showed in person.

Some people here have claimed that RW are cold and calculating. I don't know enough about them to make that judgment. It did not appear to me, but what do I know.

FWIW, I plan to see the one I have seen twice, one more time, end of the month.

[NJ]

Let's think of this in a logical way.  In USA, the PhD is the highest and final academic/scientific degree.  In the FSU system, Doktor Nauk is the highest and final academic/scientific degree.  Thus Kandidat is something less than a PhD and Doktor Nauk.  If the PhD weren't considered as high level as the Doktor Nauk, rest assured that the academic community would have long ago introduced a new degree program higher than the PhD.

Doctor Nauk in Russia equivalents professor in the USA. Usually in Russia a person that gets doctor nauk degree gets a professor position. Getting a doctor nauk requires monography printed, very serious scientific results, and much more publications then Phd.

All the professors from Russia that came to the USA during 90th i know got professor positions in American universities as well.

[Lily]

Lily, thanks for your excellent presentation of facts and the process as you understand it.  Concerning your words:  "Up to you to decide whether this process is similar to getting a Ph.D. in the West and whether they may be considered equivalent."

Let's think of this in a logical way.  In USA, the PhD is the highest and final academic/scientific degree.  In the FSU system, Doktor Nauk is the highest and final academic/scientific degree.  Thus Kandidat is something less than a PhD and Doktor Nauk.  If the PhD weren't considered as high level as the Doktor Nauk, rest assured that the academic community would have long ago introduced a new degree program higher than the PhD.

Many, but not all, masters degrees in USA require a dissertation or thesis; and coursework and thesis in such a program are usually completed in one and a half to two years.  It seems that Kandidat is somewhere between masters degree and PhD.

Hub, your explanation is very logical and understandable. However,

http://education.stateuniversity.com/pages/1653/Uzbekistan-HIGHER-EDUCATION.html

quote
'In 1998, almost 300 educational and research institutions employed over 25,000 scientists and researchers. Most talented graduates from the university or institute enter aspirantura (postgraduate training—first level). After three years of study, two to three exams, and the writing and Defending of a dissertation, a Kandidat Nauk degree (Candidate of Sciences, which is equivalent to a Ph.D.) is conferred by the Cabinet of Ministers. Kandidat Nauk (unlike the Ph.D. in the United States) is not a terminal degree. The highest scientific level is the Doktor Nauk (Doctor of Sciences) degree, which is approximately equal to the postdoctoral level in the United States. Because this degree is highly honored and influential, the government places significant requirements on those pursuing it. To apply for this degree and/or to enter doktorantura, an individual must:

become a distinguished researcher in their chosen field
provide a very broad generalization for the field of study,
patent and implement a very important (revolutionary) invention
discover or establish a new field of research or new science.
To obtain this degree, the scholar must also have many years of experience and publications in major scientific journals. Such a scholar either enters a doktorantura (no exams, only a competitive dissertation proposal and the highest credentials), or writes the dissertation during his or her free time. There are no formal classes or exams because the student is practically the first "specialist" in a particular field. The dissertation (two times longer than the Ph.D. dissertation) is formally and publicly defended in the presence of the scientific council with 10 to 20 specialists of the Doctor of Sciences level. So after two to three years of doktorantura, if the dissertation is accepted and successfully defended, the scholar earns the Doctor of Sciences degree conferred by the Cabinet of Ministers (not by University authorities as it is traditionally done in the West). His or her contribution opens new areas of research for future Ph.D. candidates, and the scholar becomes a scientific mentor in their research or establishes a school. Government requirements, defending procedure, and conferring authority are what differentiates the Doctor of Sciences degree from Western postdoctoral studies. This former Soviet system-based degree, which is required to get a full professorship, is available in Uzbekistan (as well as in many other European and Asian countries, including Denmark, Latvia, and so on).

 All top administrators and rectors of universities and colleges, deans of schools, and heads of departments have a Doctor of Sciences degree. Finally, in order to become a full member of the Academy of Science, this degree is a must. In very rare cases when the quality of research and dissertation is exceptionally high, a Doctor of Sciences degree may be awarded right after the Kandidat Nauk dissertation. From 1994 to 1998 the number of Doktor Nauk (Doctors of Sciences) in Uzbekistan grew by 8 percent and has reached 2.5 thousand, while the number of Kandidat Nauk (Candidates of Sciences) grew by 9 percent and reached 155,000.' unquote

Uzbekistan is used here for exsmple.In other FSU countries, the system is same.

Hub, the SU could not use the same logic as you did, because FSU was a totalitarian state after all that denied free market. Your logic and western approach for degrees seem to be practically driven, where professionalism and specialization are on the service of business needs. But the SU did not recognize business. For the SU his prestige on the international scene was paramount. They knew that in order to gain international recognition, development and promotion of science was very important. Therefore, SU indeed made some beneficial conditions for their scientists but at the same time, SU established a very, very high local standards for the degrees. Look at the Soviet Doktor requirements. Could you think they match the Ph.D.'s? See the ratio of 2,500 Doktors and 155,000 Kandidats. Is the ratio of Masters or ABD's and Ph.D's about the same? My guess is that the numbers are more for Ph.D.

[Lily]

Doctor Nauk in Russia equivalents professor in the USA.

NJ, I hope my big previous post with quotation explains about Doktors Nauk in the FSU.

But may I correct you in the above citation. As far as I know, a professor in the U.S. is an university teacher, irrespectively of his or her degrees. In Russia however, a Professor is a scientifical title, that should not be confused with scientifical degree.

Since Soviet scientists were also university teachers for the most part, besides researching, they carried two types of teaching titles. A title of Professor was usually conferred to a holder of Doktor Nauk degree. A title of Dozent was usually conferred to a Kandidat Nauk.

The teaching titles were also conferred honoris causa, but that was rather an exception; usually the above rule took place.

[Gator]

I have jitters before signing on the dotted line, I mean the K-1.

It is all the bad experiences I have read on this board. I wish it was not so, but they are here, the archives are full of them.

At some point and time I will get over my jitters, and go to stage two.

What this says to me is that you are not rushing into marriage.  I find that very reasonable.  Getting to know someone takes time for which there is no substitute.  Time is also needed to reconcile and resolve the differences and imperfections between two people.

Surely all of us have felt some jitters.  When you meet the right woman, your jitters will slowly dissipate over time.

Perhaps you already have met her, but by leading with a prenup and a show of wealth you have added another level of confusion.

The right woman will be attracted to you and consider your wealth as frosting on the cake.  She will forgive you for being so stupid as to start with a prenup.

It took me six years from the time that I met my lady before we married. There is no need to wait that long.  In fact, I admit it is absurd, yet that is how life unfolded.

Some people here have claimed that RW are cold and calculating. I don't know enough about them to make that judgment. It did not appear to me, but what do I know.

There are all types of RW, and given their history there may be a higher percentage of RW than AW who are exactly that.


 

FWIW, I plan to see the one I have seen twice, one more time, end of the month.

I don't understand this.  IF I REALLY LIKED A WOMAN, I SPENT MY TIME WITH HER AND NOT WITH OTHERS.  If something did not click, I went on to others. What you are doing is comparison shopping, when instead you should focus on the "best" woman and get to know her.  If she is not good enough to be considered "best," why see her?  If she is, why see others?  No one is perfect.

[ECOCKS]

Revision 4.

American                                               FSU
Middle School (no diploma)                     6th, 7th and 8th year of school
                                                           9 year program leading to tech school (not finished)
High School (12 year program w/Diploma) Middle School (11 year program - finished)
Union orTrade School (varies by trade)     Teknikum (3 years)
Community College 2 year (Associates) 
4 Year College                                      4 year degree (Certificate or Bakalavr)
University                                             5 or 6 year degree (Magistere <sp?>)
University + 1-2 years (Masters)             
University + 3-5 years (ABD*)                 Kandidate Nauk
  Doctorate awarded                               Doktor Nauk


It increasingly sounds like the FSU has a status for finishing the PhD level of classes but not doing your dissertation to actually become a Doktor Nauk.

Remember that professors in the US can be PhD's, DBA. EdD's or have Masters degrees. It is a rank for determining senioroty and pay level from the college or university you are at, not an academic diploma or award.

I appreciate all the feedback.

[Lily]

ECOCKS,

For the FSU:

it is npt possible to study in the school less than till 8th grade, therefore please delete 6th and 7th grade.

A Magister is a separate degree in the FSU, not very popular. Usually it follows a 5-6 years of University diploma. Also, a number of Russians obtained their Masters directly in the West , therefore here no comparison needed. Magister is not a scientific degree.

FSU Kandidate Nauk is equal to Ph.D., please see my quote above. You can google for diploma evaluation organisations online.

For a Doktor Nauk there is no Western equivalent. For what it takes to became one, pls also read the above. It is a sort of post doctorate. Perhaps it could be equalled to a Western Ph.D., if a western evaluation would be needed. However, due to the difficulty to obtain, the Doktors are very few, and they are in rather advanced age. They are the researchers and scientists of Nobel prize level, which are not many in every nation.

I am almost sure that among RW we don't find Doktors Nauk. The diploma evaluation authorities probably also did not get many Doktor Nauk's diplomas to evaluate.

[pitbull]

ECOCKS,

For the FSU:

it is npt possible to study in the school less than till 8th grade, therefore please delete 6th and 7th grade.

A Magister is a separate degree in the FSU, not very popular. Usually it follows a 5-6 years of University diploma. Also, a number of Russians obtained their Masters directly in the West , therefore here no comparison needed. Magister is not a scientific degree.

FSU Kandidate Nauk is equal to Ph.D., please see my quote above. You can google for diploma evaluation organisations online.

For a Doktor Nauk there is no Western equivalent. For what it takes to became one, pls also read the above. It is a sort of post doctorate. Perhaps it could be equalled to a Western Ph.D., if a western evaluation would be needed. However, due to the difficulty to obtain, the Doktors are very few, and they are in rather advanced age. They are the researchers and scientists of Nobel prize level, which are not many in every nation.

I am almost sure that among RW we don't find Doktors Nauk. The diploma evaluation authorities probably also did not get many Doktor Nauk's diplomas to evaluate.

I agree with Lily here. Kandidat nauk is equivalent to a PhD in the USA. The purpose of this degree is pretty much to prove that one is capable of serious academic research and is suited for the career in academe.

There is no equivalent DEGREE to the Doktor Nauk in the West. The equivalent however may be described as a leading researcher in the field (nationwide), who has established his/her "school of thought". A good example is Noam Chomsky in linguistics (his approach dominates on the East coast).

The dissertation for Doktor Nauk requires a very high degree of generalization and often theorizing , in most cases a new theory/ school of thought or a very significant discovery. Please read Lily's post above.

For the lack of two separate degrees in the west, both Kandidat and Doktor are evaluated as PhD.

[ECOCKS]

"All top administrators and rectors of universities and colleges, deans of schools, and heads of departments have a Doctor of Sciences degree. Finally, in order to become a full member of the Academy of Science, this degree is a must. In very rare cases when the quality of research and dissertation is exceptionally high, a Doctor of Sciences degree may be awarded right after the Kandidat Nauk dissertation. From 1994 to 1998 the number of Doktor Nauk (Doctors of Sciences) in Uzbekistan grew by 8 percent and has reached 2.5 thousand, while the number of Kandidat Nauk (Candidates of Sciences) grew by 9 percent and reached 155,000.'"

2,500 for Uzbekistan doesn't fit the Nobel Prize level identifier and 155,000 seems high for that population as well. Need to look for more numbers on these awards. Has anyone seen numbers of awards?

Middle School in the US is defined (in most school districts) as 6th, 7th and 8th grades. There is no diploma, it's an organizational element only.

The switch to Teknikum after the 9th year is also something that is not recognized or equivalent in the US system.

Rev 4.1

American                                                      FSU
Middle School (no diploma)                         6th, 7th and 8th year of school
 N/E                                                               9 year program leading to tech school (not finished)
High School (12 year program w/Diploma) Middle School (11 year program - finished)
Union orTrade School (varies by trade)     Teknikum (3 years)
Community College 2 year (Associates)  N/E
4 Year College                                            4 year degree (Certificate or Bakalavr)
University                                                    5 or 6 year degree (Magistere <sp?>)
University + 1-2 years (Masters)            
University + 3-5 years (ABD*)                 N/E
  PhD                                                            Kandidate Nauk
  N/E                                                             Doktor Nauk

* Remaining ABD is not a long-term recognized status in the US although it is somewhat represented on pay scales for teachers. Thinking about what my friend from Columbia said this sounds like some of the reason that equivalences might not be fully accepted in the selection (hiring process) at many Universities.

N/E = No Equivalent

[Misha]

There is no equivalent DEGREE to the Doktor Nauk in the West.

The difference is that in North America, you will have to rise through the ranks from assistant to associate and finally full professor. To reach full professor, you will have to demonstrate a high level of academic output, research that is of an internationally high quality. In Russian academia, a кандидат наука is usually a доцент and a доктор наука will have achieved the rank of профессор.