College Educated v. Non College Educated Women

[Hub]

Hub on Yesterday at 03:10:50 PM
Then, what happens is that after PhD or Candidate is achieved (and if the person follows an academic career), they must continue to research and publish articles in refereed journals.

 Lily: No must, they don't have to. Once a Kandidat, for ever Kandidat unless you make a number of considerable efforts to make it to a Doktor. I have not heard of an instance where a person was deprived of his earned academic degree due to zero subsequent research.

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Lily you misread my, perhaps, unclear words.  I never ment to imply a degree would be taken away.
I meant that to continue on to advance in academic rank (in case of PhD) or achieve Doctor of Science (in case of Candidate), the person must continue to research and publish articles in refereed journals.

[Hub]

Perhaps I'm just showing my ignorance, but if one is going to school for so many years how do they survive? I know grants and such are available but isn't it idiocy to run up a huge pile of debt without any type of guarantee of employment? I'm not talking about the medical, engineering or similar fields but fields like philosophy, history etc..    

Rarely a 'guarantee' of anything in life.

For masters degree, there are some grants and scholarships and research assistant jobs.  And many students work part-time off campus.

For PhD students, virtually all who are accepted into programs receive research assistant or teaching assistant positions.  These positions pay a paltry salary, but another benefit is that they generally pay all tuition and fees also.

But, undeniably many PhD students live almost in poverty, unless they have a working spouse or parents who are still kicking in some money.

Unfortunately, when a person completes a PhD in Philosophy, History (as you noted above) and many other fields that are outside the areas of Hard Science, Engineering, Business, anything related to computers, etc., they are likely to continue to live in near poverty the rest of their lives (with notable exceptions of course.)

Many of the best universities now require students in those 'non-demand' fields to sign documents at the beginning of the PhD study acknowledging that no good paying job is likely to exist at graduation time, if ever.  But still, those 'soft' fields are overrun with students.

[OlgaH]

kievstar,

I beg your pardon for my curiosity  but you have written that you told your wife not to work, you would never marry a woman who wants a professional career and you want a bunch of children, so what is a reason to  pay more than 8,000 as a bribe for some kind of notary test if she is not going to work? 

[kievstar]

Hi OlgaH,

The person who was a notaries is a girlfriend of a local Ukraine man I know.  For awhile this man was asking everybody he knew for a 10,000 usd loan to help his girl pass.  I told him I would not give him the money as I do not like when people cheat in school let alone corrupt teachers.  But luckily for him he ran into 8,000 usd - an old claim on two cars stolen 2 years earlier was finally paid by the insurance company.  He is in the business of car rental.  His girlfriend than got his certification or whatever it is called with the bribe several weeks after she told she failed  This is a real good girl who is very smart.  Studied months and most likely passed every part of the test but she was not born of rich parents.  She told me so many rich kids who have no idea what there doing are passing this in Kiev.  You know why rich kids like it is very easy to make a lot of money in this business with corruption.

My wife got a degree in business - she defended her diploma on hotel management.  She has some interesting photos of it but I never could post them here - she would not be very happy. Her bribe was a very small amount.

Regarding work I do not want her working as I want a bunch of kids and she needs to study English.  She is a serious girl who does study all day. I also do not want her bored so she may do a partime job in future. Things change.  When I first met her I told her it is important that sometimes we live in Ukraine, I just got offered a managing director job over a large company in Donetsk but she told me we live in USA.  Ukraine no good for children and you need to stay away from gangster city (Donetsk).  I said OK.  I am actually going to take a normal job in the future and if the right one opens up in Florida will take it.

[ambach123]

I met a girl on  line of course from a small village. She has the basic education, no University, but she can speak and write very good English, almost fluent. She works in a shop. I asked how she knows English, she said " I learnt".
This does not seem right.
She has not asked for any money yet, but I am suspicous.

[Simoni]

Perhaps I'm just showing my ignorance, but if one is going to school for so many years how do they survive? I know grants and such are available but isn't it idiocy to run up a huge pile of debt without any type of guarantee of employment? I'm not talking about the medical, engineering or similar fields but fields like philosophy, history etc..    

You work as a teaching assistant, making 1/10 of the money a professor makes.  Sometimes you work as a research assistant, getting paid with grant money. And you borrow lots of money, meaning you will be paying for your Ph.D. the first ten years you are a professor.

In a crowded field, there is always room for new talent.  That is what drives one to get the degree...

[Misha]

I met a girl on  line of course from a small village. She has the basic education, no University, but she can speak and write very good English, almost fluent. She works in a shop. I asked how she knows English, she said " I learnt".
This does not seem right.
She has not asked for any money yet, but I am suspicous.

You know Ambach, there are specialized schools in Russia for the teaching of foreign languages. I met some young women, even from villages, who were exceptionally fluent because of their schooling (primary school and high school) and their motivation to learn 

[JR]

My ex wife had two Master's Degrees and taught herself English by using a dictionary and a coulple of grammer books. Nothing suspicious about it.

[Faux Pas]

IIRC, member forum Possum's english is self-taught. He commands english better than many natives I know.

[Aloe]

I met a girl on  line of course from a small village. She has the basic education, no University, but she can speak and write very good English, almost fluent. She works in a shop. I asked how she knows English, she said " I learnt".
This does not seem right.
She has not asked for any money yet, but I am suspicous.

very funny ambach. In modern day and age you dont need any kind of education to speak english fluently, all you need is the internet (full of free movies you can watch in english, people to talk to and teach you and games you can play, and books of course, all that at your disposal for free)

[Billgreen54]

Education has nothing to do with who a real person is inside.  However, just like in any society, having a formal education of any kind, is a good thing as far as earning income and helping support fun and family.  A woman moving to another country will have doors opened for her that should pay her a higher wage.  That said, I can tell you that for me, while teaching English in Nikolaev over the past year and a half, I've noticed people with a higher education seem to be more goal oriented and driven to make things happen.

[2tallbill]

Is education important to you? Or is well read your kind of thing?

In the early pages, it explains some of the Russian levels of education
which I think are educational for those not familiar with it.

[japtats]

Neither , someone that actually moves . Maybe education is a part of it , as achieving academically is not always easy to do. But too many Socrates and Confucius wannabes dropping quotes but are lazy. Mental masturbation

[I/O]

Undecided on this one. My Ol' lady has 2 degrees and is working on a 3rd one now - she's just as much of a pain in the arse as an uneducated person so......🤔

[ML]

Which is best for the man depends on his own level of education.

Men with college educations, and particularly masters and doctoral level, will rarely be happy spending much time with a woman who does not have at least a bachelors degree. 

On the other hand, men with little education will likely be happier with women of the same level.

It is very dangerous, with respect to a long-term relationship, for a man to marry a woman with significantly higher level of education (and intelligence) than themselves.

While men can 'marry down' a little bit in terms of education, a woman will not be happy for very long if she does so.

I have seen numerous such situations in my lifetime (woman marrying less educated man) that almost invariably fall apart.

Most recent example:  About 2 years ago, wife and I went to party given by a professor and were introduced to a young couple.  The woman was starting PhD in math and husband was a blue collar worker who mostly grunted answers to questions and looked terrified at the surroundings.  Don't know how they came to be hooked up.  On drive home, I immediately told wife that the couple would not last.

Flash forward to last Spring.  Wife said she saw the woman who was telling another woman she was on campus to visit with her boyfriend.  Wife is never nosey (like I would be) so she never inquired how this married woman (at least when she was at party) was visiting a boyfriend.

Forward more to current:  Wife talking with a professor who tells her that he and new wife (the same woman) were expecting a baby next June.  This was the same professor who gave party at which we met the woman and her then husband. 

Women are drawn inexorably to men of power, wealth and/or intelligence.

Yes, I know education doesn't prove intelligence level; but rarely are college educated persons stupid, dumb or whatever;  whereas stupid, dumb, low IQ persons are rarely college educated.

And yes, I know there is a difference between educated smart and street smart.

[2tallbill]

Which is best for the man depends on his own level of education.

Men with college educations, and particularly masters and doctoral level, will rarely be happy spending much time with a woman who does not have at least a bachelors degree. 

On the other hand, men with little education will likely be happier with women of the same level.

It is very dangerous, with respect to a long-term relationship, for a man to marry a woman with significantly higher level of education (and intelligence) than themselves.

While men can 'marry down' a little bit in terms of education, a woman will not be happy for very long if she does so.

I have seen numerous such situations in my lifetime (woman marrying less educated man) that almost invariably fall apart.

Most recent example:  About 2 years ago, wife and I went to party given by a professor and were introduced to a young couple.  The woman was starting PhD in math and husband was a blue collar worker who mostly grunted answers to questions and looked terrified at the surroundings.  Don't know how they came to be hooked up.  On drive home, I immediately told wife that the couple would not last.

Flash forward to last Spring.  Wife said she saw the woman who was telling another woman she was on campus to visit with her boyfriend.  Wife is never nosey (like I would be) so she never inquired how this married woman (at least when she was at party) was visiting a boyfriend.

Forward more to current:  Wife talking with a professor who tells her that he and new wife (the same woman) were expecting a baby next June.  This was the same professor who gave party at which we met the woman and her then husband. 

Women are drawn inexorably to men of power, wealth and/or intelligence.

Yes, I know education doesn't prove intelligence level; but rarely are college educated persons stupid, dumb or whatever;  whereas stupid, dumb, low IQ persons are rarely college educated.

And yes, I know there is a difference between educated smart and street smart.

True story about a girl named Melinda graduated as valedictorian from
Ursuline Academy of Dallas, she earned a bachelor's degree in computer
science and economics from Duke University and an MBA from Duke's
Fuqua School of Business. Her guy was a College dropout and they
eventually got married and lived mostly happily ever after.

95.478% of the time I totally agree with ML, but there are exceptions
to the rule. Bill and Melinda Gates were the exception.

[japtats]

It is to do with women tend to marry men that earn more than them , and men marry women that earn less than them . Also degrees imo are not the best sign of intelligence, a lot of people are getting degrees in easy subjects, it is also a lot of memorising facts , unless someone studies stem , and not everyone wants to take time off working to pursue a degree , spend a great deal of money on it .

I looked at the math of astrophysics, looked bit complex, but nothing too hard, I did it in engineering, and scored one of the highest in my class for engineering math . But I cannot take the time off working to pursue a master's in astrophysics

[DCCowboy71]

Which is best for the man depends on his own level of education.

Men with college educations, and particularly masters and doctoral level, will rarely be happy spending much time with a woman who does not have at least a bachelors degree. 

On the other hand, men with little education will likely be happier with women of the same level.

It is very dangerous, with respect to a long-term relationship, for a man to marry a woman with significantly higher level of education (and intelligence) than themselves.

While men can 'marry down' a little bit in terms of education, a woman will not be happy for very long if she does so.

I have seen numerous such situations in my lifetime (woman marrying less educated man) that almost invariably fall apart.

Most recent example:  About 2 years ago, wife and I went to party given by a professor and were introduced to a young couple.  The woman was starting PhD in math and husband was a blue collar worker who mostly grunted answers to questions and looked terrified at the surroundings.  Don't know how they came to be hooked up.  On drive home, I immediately told wife that the couple would not last.

Flash forward to last Spring.  Wife said she saw the woman who was telling another woman she was on campus to visit with her boyfriend.  Wife is never nosey (like I would be) so she never inquired how this married woman (at least when she was at party) was visiting a boyfriend.

Forward more to current:  Wife talking with a professor who tells her that he and new wife (the same woman) were expecting a baby next June.  This was the same professor who gave party at which we met the woman and her then husband. 

Women are drawn inexorably to men of power, wealth and/or intelligence.

Yes, I know education doesn't prove intelligence level; but rarely are college educated persons stupid, dumb or whatever;  whereas stupid, dumb, low IQ persons are rarely college educated.

And yes, I know there is a difference between educated smart and street smart.

Well said. I have my Masters (I did while working full time), does not make me smart though! lol. Personally I would not have a problem with someone with a Doctorates, But I could see your point above with little to know education and the lady having her PhD. Several of the women I have communicated with are MD's or working on becoming. They say that their partners education level would not matter, but once again I have my Masters. But think if someone did not have any secondary education, they would have to be rich or extremely good looking.

[ML]

Personally I would not have a problem with someone with a Doctorates,

That is the wrong direction to be thinking about.

It's the higher educated woman who would have the problem with the man . . . eventually.

[ML]

Several of the women I have communicated with are MD's or working on becoming. They say that their partners education level would not matter . . .

But remember, many of these gals also say that a partner up to age 80 would not be a problem.

[ML]

More on education vs intelligence.

These concepts are not the same, but the correlation between the two is positive with (as always with statistics) some outliers.

And, they can compensate for each other, somewhat.

Big Bill gave the example of Melinda Gates being happy (as far as we know) with a less educated man.
But Bill Gates is reported to have an IQ of 160.

The opposite can also occur.
Assume a high IQ woman with high education.
She could be somewhat happy with an average IQ man who has a bachelors degree.
Assuming a broad education, the average IQ bachelors degree person can often keep up in interesting conversations about art, music, world events, history, etc.

What I will always reject is non-university educated people claiming that those with such education are less intelligent than those without.

Yes, there are always outliers who slip though, and there are numerous bachelors degreed (and higher) persons who have no common sense and/or are not streetwise.

But the latter group is very well represented by non-university educated persons also.

[DCCowboy71]

That is the wrong direction to be thinking about.

It's the higher educated woman who would have the problem with the man . . . eventually.

I would surmise that the higher the degree'd man is, the less likely this scenario would play out.

[DCCowboy71]

But remember, many of these gals also say that a partner up to age 80 would not be a problem.

Very, Very true, But the broader the parameters, the more likely a scammer.

[2tallbill]

I have noticed in some posts in the archives that non college educated women with regular jobs like
hairdressers, bookkeepers, shop assistants, etc. make better wives.

My question is do they? Or it does matter?

Generally speaking, I would recommend that you stay in your lane. If you are a microbiologist seek out
the physics professor not the aerobics instructor. If you are a welder, go after the aerobics instructor
rather than the physics professor.

The race doesn't always go to the swift nor the contest to the strong, but that's the way you should bet.

[ML]

Generally speaking, I would recommend that you stay in your lane. If you are a microbiologist seek out
the physics professor not the aerobics instructor. If you are a welder, go after the aerobics instructor
rather than the physics professor.

The race doesn't always go to the swift nor the contest to the strong, but that's the way you should bet.

Good advice in general.

However, it is well known that men will marry down whereas women generally won't.

Over the past 20 years or so, I have been almost 100% correct when I opine that a particular marriage will not survive when I observe that the woman has married down.

Just last year I was a party where faculty and graduate students were in attendance.  For awhile I sat near a female doctoral student (near graduation) and her seemingly dumb as a post fairly new husband.  I told my wife that marriage would never last.  We heard just last week that she left her husband and moved in with one of her former professors.