Where to meet - Russia or Ukraine?

[MatryoshkaMan]

Hi all,
I am planning to go to FSU in late September to meet with my #1 ("L") who lives in Novosibirsk, Russia. At first I was thinking to go to her city because I wanted to meet L's  parents. But she said that is probably not possible as they live in Yukutsk which is quite far away. So free of the parent issue we decided to meet in Moscow. BUT I have been thinking of other possibilities due to the hassle of Russian visas.

A couple of questions:
1) She does NOT have a travel passport. Can she fly into Kiev without a foreign passport? I think so but want to confirm.
2) Is Kiev cheaper than Moscow for say a 10 day stay? I have been to both cities before but was staying with family so I was shielded from the normal tourist costs. I am assuming Kiev is a LOT cheaper? I would rent a furnished apartment in either city.
3) Any disadvantages to meet in Kiev? For her it would mean 2 flights as there is no direct flights from Novo to Kiev.

Thanks!

[Faux Pas]

Russian visa is not "THAT" much of a hassle. It's just another travel requirement and step to take as well as an expense. I have never been to Kiev but, I understand it is quite expensive. I have been to Moscow and I know it is quite expensive but not unlike most major cities.

Don't let the visa hassle scare you. I would suggest going ahead to Novosibirsk. The fact alone that it is Siberia (the biggest city in Siberia if I understand correctly)  should make it an interesting place to visit regardless. I have been to Siberia several times and highly recommend it. It does seem to be a "different" Russia in many respects than Piter or Moscow but a more earthy and less touristy place to visit

[kievstar]

Meet her in her home city.  If things do not work out, easy for you to bail.  But if things work out you meet her friends and get closer to what your looking for.  You may even jump on a plane to  see her parents.  Go to her home turf. 

[JR]

Home turf is good idea. Moscow would be much easier for you from a "get there" point of view. Someplace like Odessa might be fun for the both of you. Do what seems like the most fun for you. The visa is only a matter of $200 and a couple of weeks to process.

I used gotorussia.com, they have little concept of customer service but they got the job done and I got my visa back a few days earlier than promised.

[Gator]

Some women from small cities prefer not to have the first meeting in their home town:

-  They are concerned that you will be weary from the added travel required for you to get to her city.
-  The added travel would reduce the number of days with you.
-  They want to spend all of their time with you, and this is not always possible because of family and work.
-  They want to have fun and there is not much to do or see compared to Moscow.
-  They want to enjoy their time with you and this is easier in front of strangers than in front of friends and family.
 -  They do not want to be embarrassed if you are not the man of her dreams.

[GoodOlBoy]

A couple of questions:
1) She does NOT have a travel passport. Can she fly into Kiev without a foreign passport? I think so but want to confirm.

Hey MatryoshkaMan.

Obviously she IS a Russian citizen?

Does she have an "internal" Russian passport (she must)?

What you are saying is she DOESN'T have an "international" travel passport?

If the answer is NO she doesn't have an "international" travel passport from Russia than NO she can't travel to Kiev (Ukraine).


GOB

BTW...My wife says it use to take about a month for a Russian citizen in Siberia to get an "international" travel passport.   

[MatryoshkaMan]

Hey GOB - since I posted this I have done some more research and have confirmed that Russian citizens with only their internal passport CAN travel to Ukraine without having the international one. I got this infor here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_passport
Makes sense. It would be crazy to think, given their common history, that Russians would have a hard time entering Ukraine. If Ukraine ever pulled this stunt on Russia you can bet Putin will blow up! He is already pissed at Ukraine under Yuschenko's "leadership".

Well I am torn, there is a lot of advantages to going to her city:

1) There is lest risk of having a botched meet-up (flights cancelled, can't find each other, mis-communication on where/when to meet, etc.)
2) Certainly would be cheaper. Yes it will cost me more for the Moscow to Novo leg and add 1 more flight for me BUT this cost is offset by the fact that I do not have to pay for her flight to Moscow or Kiev (which I would do naturally). Also I could (note could) stay in her place for some portion of the trip (ie things are going well). This will save on accomodations and meals.
3) Can see her apartment/life/job/friends/Hang-outs, etc.
4) COULD have the potential to meet her parents although Yakutsk is a LONG way from Novo. I think the flight must be 5-6 hours?
5) She has not asked about time off her job for the late September time frame. If she had a hard time taking the time off she could go to work and I could just play tourist during the day while I wait for her. I know not optimal but better than nothing of course!

Disadvantage of going to her city:
1) Maybe not that exciting for her. She might be sick of the place!
2) Novo does not seem that interesting from what I have read & pictures I have seen (Flickr, etc.)

Based on the Russian visa BS I have decided that I will NOT meet her in Moscow. The costs will kill me. I have been looking at the private apt`s and the hotels and wow they are more than Vancouver`s prices! Way more. So IF I go to Russia I will go to Novo.

I have been thinking a week in Kiev then maybe 4 days in Odessa, going there by train.

I have also been thinking Turkey BUT this seems logistically complex. I know SHE could book an all inclusive to Turkey on the `Russian Riveria`` but I am wondering how I would do the same from Canada as most of the Turkish all-inclusives coming from the west are through London, etc.

Have any of you met a woman in Turkey? Is it a good idea? One thing, she would be super excited as she had never been out of Russia. And pretty hot-to-trot I would think at the whole concept.

[Faux Pas]

Ask her what city and why her preference. If it is acceptable to you, then do it.

[JR]

Sculpto has an in on a private apartment in Moscow for $400 usd a week.

[Kuna]

Go to her home town.  You'll learn a lot more about her in her home environment that you will in another city.

Meet her friends...  visit places that are important to her.  If her city isn't very exciting for her during your trip maybe YOU WILL BE EXCITING ENOUGH FOR HER. 

God knows why you want to impress girls with holidays away from home when you really should be getting to know her in a natural environment.


MatryoshkaBoy...  I've seen enough of your posts to know you'll cherry pick the "easy way" through this journey. It seems you're determined to make this hard for yourself by creating BS excuses like "visa expenses"...

Let me promise you... if the cost of a visa makes an impact on your travel decisions you're simply not well resourced enough to even start this journey!

Stay home buddy... you're dreamin!

[GoodOlBoy]

Hey GOB - since I posted this I have done some more research and have confirmed that Russian citizens with only their internal passport CAN travel to Ukraine without having the international one. I got this infor here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_passport

I understand your point MatryoshkaMan.

I am just passing on information provided to me by my wife (and she is pretty accurate).

According to my wife, it is not a good idea to try and travel ANYWHERE outside of Russia with an "internal" passport.

She says there will be big "stress" for your girl, probably with many arguments along the way.

She was curious as to why your girl has not gotten an "international" passport?

Is she young?

Anyway, my wife says the "international" passport is not expensive.

Good luck on whatever you decide.


GOB

[boaterguy]

Another vote for go to Novosibirsk! It's the 3rd largest city in Russia. The geographic center of Russia is also in Novosibirsk(gives you an idea how big Russia is). I doubt you will run out of things to see or do!

[MatryoshkaMan]

Looks like I am being strongly encouraged to go see her in Novo. Never said I didn't want to do it. In fact there are far more pro's than con's. Since I have been to Moscow and Kiev already Novo is interesting to me by virtue of the fact that I have never this "deep" in Russia before. It was HER that seemed to be suggesting to meet in Moscow. Maybe she thought it would be easier for me to reach than her own city? She is actually on a plane right now to Moscow to go visit a friend there - her first time to Moscow. So maybe this trip will change her mind in any case as she will have had a taste of the big city life. As far as the expense of the trip, I can afford it no problem (although not chump change for me by any means). The desire to avoid paying $200 for the Russian visa is not about the money its about not feeding the sharks and encouraging their ridiculous system. I would say that her and I will have some serious discussions and my plans will firm up in the next month. I'd like to buy my ticket in August so I have lots of time for the visa process. She does not have an international passport because she has never been out of the country before..she lives in Central Siberia after all and there is nowhere close at hand...I don;t think Mongolia or China are high on her list...

[Faux Pas]

Looks like I am being strongly encouraged to go see her in Novo. Never said I didn't want to do it. In fact there are far more pro's than con's. Since I have been to Moscow and Kiev already Novo is interesting to me by virtue of the fact that I have never this "deep" in Russia before. It was HER that seemed to be suggesting to meet in Moscow. Maybe she thought it would be easier for me to reach than her own city? She is actually on a plane right now to Moscow to go visit a friend there - her first time to Moscow. So maybe this trip will change her mind in any case as she will have had a taste of the big city life. As far as the expense of the trip, I can afford it no problem (although not chump change for me by any means). The desire to avoid paying $200 for the Russian visa is not about the money its about not feeding the sharks and encouraging their ridiculous system. I would say that her and I will have some serious discussions and my plans will firm up in the next month. I'd like to buy my ticket in August so I have lots of time for the visa process. She does not have an international passport because she has never been out of the country before..she lives in Central Siberia after all and there is nowhere close at hand...I don;t think Mongolia or China are high on her list...

You'll have just as good a time in Novo as you would anywhere else in Russia although, she may not. It's nothing against you, it's likely more the case of her being unsure about you in case things do not work out. Saving herself some embarrassment of family, friends and the neighboring babushkas. Very valid points for her. For the first trip don't make her city mandatory but, I'd suggest if she desires another city do not offer to pay her transportation. If she wants to go elsewhere that bad she will pay for it. I am in no way suggesting you be cheap. But it is an indicator of whether she is looking for a vacation or seriously wanting to meet you.

Don't think for a minute this lady hasn't traveled to some degree. Many to most Russians have and Siberians are no different. She can obtain her international passport relatively easy and she will if she is serious and wants to meet you. She's gotten this far hasn't she?

[Chillidog]

You'll have just as good a time in Novo as you would anywhere else in Russia although, she may not. It's nothing against you, it's likely more the case of her being unsure about you in case things do not work out. Saving herself some embarrassment of family, friends and the neighboring babushkas. Very valid points for her. For the first trip don't make her city mandatory but, I'd suggest if she desires another city do not offer to pay her transportation. If she wants to go elsewhere that bad she will pay for it. I am in no way suggesting you be cheap. But it is an indicator of whether she is looking for a vacation or seriously wanting to meet you.

Don't think for a minute this lady hasn't traveled to some degree. Many to most Russians have and Siberians are no different. She can obtain her international passport relatively easy and she will if she is serious and wants to meet you. She's gotten this far hasn't she?

I agree with Faux Paus, as to if a woman is serious about meeting you and she wants to go elsewhere to meet you (rather than her home town) she will find a way to pay for it.

my GF wanted for our last meeting to take a "Family vacation" which consisted of Her, her 9 yo son and myself to Thailand. Even though we had already had 2 personal meetings prior she would not accept of even allow me to discuss covering her transportation AND hotel costs (she lives about 3 hour care ride outside of Moscow).

Our first & second meeting did take place in her city Kaluga. For her it WAS important that I see her city, her life and meet her friends and especially to meet her mother. Now granted not every woman will view a "1st meeting this way". So each has to take into consideration the woman's wishes but also not put himself into a position where it becomes a "vacation for the woman" instead of "wanting to meet the man"

I think Novosibirsk has more in the way of attractions such as museums, points of interest, nightlife than Kaluga so don't let "attractions" determine where you will meet, because if you are serious you should be going to "meet the Lady" everything else should take second place

[Ranetka]

Russian sitizen can enter and leave Ukrain using only their internal passport. This is 100% legal, there will be no questions and no hussle. I have done it last year. If your girl is worried she can phone Borispol border (passport) control. (Borispol is the airport in Kiev). You can google their number up. (I did it, they answer).

Pro Kiyv

1. Kiyv is amazingly beautiful, you will both be tourist here exploring sites together.
2. Novosibirsk can be quite depressing in the end of September due to bad weather. It could, again be stunning in the end of September if the weather is good but to predict the weather is not possible.

Pro Novosibirsk
1. She will know where to go and Novosibirsk with its over 1 500 000 population (Gator, smaller city?) has a lot to offer!

Everything else was pretty much covered by everybody else.

[Ranetka]

What is involved in a Russian or Ukrainian getting an International passport? Are there fees? Is it a problem as in do some people get denied like the old days?

Having a photograph taken, paying a fee of approx $3, going to the appropriate office, queing (excuse my spelling), filling up an appropriate form and wating...Then going tothe place again to pick it up.

Passport can be denied if the person is under criminal investigation or serving suspended prison sentence.

Refer to your words of "the old days" that was another State with different laws.

Ukraine may have a different set of rules since it is a different country. (I know it can be a hard consept to grasp )

[ECOCKS]

Thank you for the information. That's a good question.

Someone else then, is it any different in Ukraine regarding fees or process?

[Ranetka]

Having a photograph taken, paying a fee of approx $3, going to the appropriate office, queing (excuse my spelling), filling up an appropriate form and wating...Then going tothe place again to pick it up.

Passport can be denied if the person is under criminal investigation or serving suspended prison sentence.

Refer to your words of "the old days" that was another State with different laws.

Ukraine may have a different set of rules since it is a different country. (I know it can be a hard consept to grasp )

My apologies, checked, fee for a new international (travel) passport at the moment is 400 roubles which is approx $12.
There are also agencies who can help with this procedure (no need to queue, waiting time is shorter), they will charge for their service, dunno how much, depends on the town and time.

[GoodOlBoy]

Passport can be denied if the person is under criminal investigation or serving suspended prison sentence.

Exactly what my wife said to me last night.

This is why she said visiting countries "discourage" the use of an "internal" passport from another country and "encourage" the use of an "international" passport.

They don't want any criminal elements "visiting".

Obviously things worked out OK for you.


GOB

[BillyB]

Looks like I am being strongly encouraged to go see her in Novo.

Go to Yakutsk and save the romantic vacations later for your girlfriend/fiancee/wife. I wish you'd invite everybody who you've never met to a free vacation too! Send my invitation by PM! Oh the things men will do for a woman! Ask yourself, are you giving her a free vacation because of what's between her legs or you'd do this for anybody regardless of gender?

If your gal is a family oriented woman and serious about serious relations, she'd want to introduce you to her family and friends if she enjoys your first few meetings together. If that's really you in your avatar, you are not going to embarrass her walking down the street together unless you don't know how to act or talk. Gator has some excellent points up thread on why a woman doesn't want to meet in her hometown first but ultimately it's your choice on where to go and she should be happy to see only you over some tourist attractions. Believe it or not, if you got the tools and talent, you don't need Paris, Rome, Kiev, or Moscow to win a woman's heart.

If you got time, you could compromise with her and meet in Novosibirsk and if things go smooth in the first few days, take a train/plane to her hometown to meet the parents. Novosibirsk, although a very big city, is very boring with no major tourist attractions. After a few days there and you should be eager to leave.

[MatryoshkaMan]

Sounds like I should ask her to get a foreign passport just in case we decide to meet in another city. I am going to leave it up to her. If she really wants to meet in a city other than her own I will do it. After all the trip is about HER and the place is secondary. If the chemistry is there I will not give a hoot where I am. Maybe for her it is double exciting to be away from her city AND meet me. Everyone gets bored with where they live. Travel adds to the spice of life! If I did go to Novo I would like to go to Tomsk and also spend a couple of days on the trans-siberian rolling accross Siberia in a locked 1st class room...

[JR]

Go to Yakutsk and save the romantic vacations later for your girlfriend/fiancee/wife. I wish you'd invite everybody who you've never met to a free vacation too! Send my invitation by PM! Oh the things men will do for a woman! Ask yourself, are you giving her a free vacation because of what's between her legs or you'd do this for anybody regardless of gender?

Billy, I really wish you'd stop pulling punches LOL!

MM, let me be perfectly clear here.... What in the hell do you mean it's all about her?!?!?!?!?! It's YOUR life, YOUR adventure! She's along for the ride! And if she is fortunate enough to win the prize then she gets equal say. Right now you are doing the approaching and paying. It's your ticket, don't give it away! If you go in it with that attitude she will walk all over you. Your trip is about you. It's your journey of discovery, you are learning about yourself. If she fits into your puzzle then that would be wonderful. If she goes to Canada on her dime to meet you that's a whole different story. But right now it's gotta be about you.

Don't waffle on this! It is your adventure, take the reins and drive the wagon.

[Simoni]

The best advice is what people are giving you.  Go see her where she lives first. Save the romantic hot spots for later, and in the event that you two do click big time.

[MatryoshkaMan]

Ok guys the nail is driven home, I will go to Siberia and see her there. It is the right way to do things - 1st meet and 2nd romantic vacations second. And yes that is my recent picture as my avtar.