Life Changes

[BillyB]

   Life Changes. I hear this a lot from FSU women after I ask them how they could think about moving to a different country and leaving everybody and everything they've ever known even for a good man. They usually say "I seek life changes".
 
  I've sought life changes too. Late last year I broke off the engagement with my fiancee Natalia. As many of you know Natalia didn't pass the interview early last year and I applied for a waiver getting help from an immigration attorney and my congressman's office. Our wavier was approved and visa needed to be picked up at the embassy but Natalia got symptoms of culture shock before even coming here and had to be hospitalized for a couple of weeks as she struggled with the situation. Natalia had been hospitalized at least once a year every year I've known her. The first time it happened freaked me out since I couldn't talk to her for a few weeks to find out what's going on. She has high blood pressure and occasional migraines and sometimes life's stresses may cause her mental and physical stress beyond the norm. Her condition is related to the reason she failed the interview. It was never the embassy's fault for failing her but an Uzbek doctor that failed her on a medical exam. A lame reason to fail her but I guess he has to fail a certain number of people to prove to the embassy he's doing his job and not letting everyone through. The embassy interviewer did not have the power to overturn the doctor's recommendation.

  With most foreign women we tend to worry that they want to marry us men because of insincere reasons. With sincere women we need to worry that they may not be able to make the final step to move to a new country for reasons related to their attachment to family or their homeland. That was my only worry about Natalia. She will not be able to come or will not be able to adapt when getting here since being away from everything and everybody she ever knew. We talked many times and she told me it wasn't going to be easy but she's strong enough to make the move. Her mom and brothers liked me a lot and were very supportive of her marrying me but their approval still wasn't enough to get her psychologically ready for life changes.

  Before the interview early last year, Natalia was mentally prepare to make the move at that time and I'd bet she'd be here with me today if she pass the interview. She quit a well paying job and had her bags packed and based on her tone of voice before the interview, she was mentally prepared. Failing the interview was very demoralizing for her and she thought it was a bad sign from God that we weren't meant to be together. I told her give me some time and I'll find a way to get a waiver. I told her even bad things happen to good people but God will help those who help themselves. While waiting for me to do my thing, she then found two jobs that worked her almost twice the hours to make the same pay as the old job she quit. I told her not to stress herself out and to quit the jobs and I'll support her instead. She said she has to work and stay busy and that she couldn't just sit at home all day. She's always been a good woman in the fact she didn't need me for money and isn't lazy. She's also a sweet natured woman and in all the years I've known her, we've never been in an argument.

   After she got out of the hospital last year after the waiver was approved, I talked to her and she was still not ready to come. I asked her if she's breaking off the engagement and she said "no" and wished me to marry her in Uzbekistan and live with her there. I reminded her that I have two kids and a business to take care of and that we both knew early on in our relationship that's not an option. A few day's later I tell her I'm breaking off the engagement because I didn't want to put continuous pressure on her and stress her out further. I didn't tell her my other reason and that by breaking the engagement I also take the stress of the situation off of me and now I'm free to pursue my goal of finding a woman that could be with me where I live.
 
   Although we've broken up, I kept in contact with her occasionally. About 3 months ago she decided she was ready to be with me and marry me here in the States. After talking to her some more, I felt her decision was more to make me happy than herself. I don't want to marry a woman who may be depressed about where she lives. She needs to make herself happy and I wanted to marry the happy woman as shown in the photos in the links below. So I made the decision not to marry her yet until I felt where she lives wouldn't affect her mood but as time goes by, life changes and I get more and more attached to another lady.

  Some of you know I've been absent from the forum for a few months. It had nothing to do with my breakup as I was still posting after it happen. I was busy with work and communicating with lots ladies on the Internet and made 3 trips to the FSU since breaking up with Natalia and I was too burned out to do other things in my life such as participating on the forum. I have more time now and will write about my new recent trips. For some who are wanting to know more about my story for with my ex fiancee and how I got to this point, you can read some of my past trip reports in the links below.  This thread isn't going to focus on the past but more about recent events.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1303.0

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=5066.0

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=7172.0

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=7815.0

[JR]

Sounds like you had to make a very tough decision but perhaps the right one. There is little worse than living with someone who is unhappy with their surroundings.

[GQBlues]

Late last year I broke off the engagement with my fiancee Natalia...<snip>...This thread isn't going to focus on the past but more about recent events.

Hey Billy-

I did wonder about you and Natalia. I can only hope the very best to both of you. I still remember the time you first met Natalia and I had high hopes for you both.

I know you've taken great strides to make things happen but there are things in life that is simply destined for other things than our own. I give you credit for even going back to FSU after this.

Good luck to you and do give Natalia our best whenever possible.

[groovlstk]

Billy,

I'm really sorry to hear things didn't work out. You're a good guy and you've got the fortitude to find what you're looking for. Best of luck to you.

[Simoni]

I wish you the very best, Billy.  You were stoic when times were tough, and kept on trying to make it work. It seems this resolution is for the best for both of you.

Good luck!

~Simoni

[Muddy]

Maybe its better to get married there and apply for K1 visa in situations like this, because K1 is a multiple entry visa and if she comes here and misses home after a month or 2, and wants to return to her country for a visit she can do it

[myrddin]

Sorry to hear about this, Billy. 

Sounds like you're handling it.  I hope all works out for the best.

[Admin]

Maybe its better to get married there and apply for K1 visa in situations like this, because K1 is a multiple entry visa and if she comes here and misses home after a month or 2, and wants to return to her country for a visit she can do it

I *think* you may mean 'K-3' visa - not K-1. K1 is definitely NOT a "multiple entry" visa and is not for marriage abroad.

Maybe review the flowchart here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=9067.0

- Dan

[Muddy]

K3

[Blues Fairy]

K3

I still fail to see how this advice is relevant to the OP's situation.

[Chillidog]

Billy,

sorry to learn about the difficulties you had, and hope the future runs much smoother for you.

   Life Changes. I hear this a lot from FSU women after I ask them how they could think about moving to a different country and leaving everybody and everything they've ever known even for a good man. They usually say "I seek life changes".

"Life Changes" (Billy the follow is about this "Phrase" and not about Natalia or your relationship) and the only reason I post is because this is how you began the topic so I thought this is waht you most wanted to discuss

IMO and generalizing of course, if a lady says to me "I am seeking/wanting for Life Changes" my ears perk up and I go "on alert". I was not wanting/searching for a woman who was not happy with her life, a woman wanting change for change sake. I wanted to find a woman who was happy with her life other than she wanted "love" in her life. That for "love" and not for "change" would she consider leaving country, family and friends

again only MO I would suggest staying clear of any "seeking change" to me this just feels like their looking for a "mule"

BillyB again just to stress this is not comments about your past relationship or any current ones you may have, just in response to the "OP Title"

[Aloe]

wow imagine how the woman feels. She quit a great job (one that perhaps takes years and years to get), gets herself health problems, preparing to leave her home, and he just drops her i guess its a good thing, cuz you wouldnt handle her negative phase of culture shock and i hear everybody goes through it, same as the shock before leaving she was having.

[Ade]

wow imagine how the woman feels. She quit a great job (one that perhaps takes years and years to get), gets herself health problems, preparing to leave her home, and he just drops her i guess its a good thing, cuz you wouldnt handle her negative phase of culture shock and i hear everybody goes through it, same as the shock before leaving she was having.

I guess it's easy to be judgemental with this. I'll admit my first reaction to Billy's story was, wtf? I mean, she's stuck with him for 3 years even if half of that was virtual. And it's obvious from all those pictures of them together in the other threads that she is into him in a big way and the fact that she went through the interview process even though she wasn't that keen on leaving home says a lot. On the face of it, he comes across as the bad guy here but it's one thing to read his story and another entirely to live his life. Who knows what I would do in his situation; with my fiancée I would move mountains to be with her and move to another country too, but maybe Billy's relationship with his fiancée wasn't so deep. Also, she must have issues to be hospitalized from stress and I know how bad it can be to live with someone with mental problems; maybe splitting was the best for both of them.

[Billgreen54]

One thing for sure, this ain't easy.  Finding someone to love is the toughest thing anyone will ever do in their lifetime.  I know when I came to live in Nikolaev almost two years ago, I was taking a serious gamble with Larisa and I.  I came here for Larisa.  At the same time, I wanted to know what it felt like to move to a foreign country and in many ways, start life over in many ways.  No person can imagine what another feels until they wear their shoes.  Thank heavens we are still together and anything less than total survival is not an option.

Billy, I feel for you and your situation.  I don't know what I would do if I were in your shoes.  I just know that if a person tries his best and fails because of factors beyond his control, it's time to move on and learn from what life has to offer.

[SteveOR]

Billy-

I'm very sorry to hear that things didn't work out.  I know from reading your posts that you worked hard on the relationship.  Good luck in the future and please keep posting.  I've learned a lot from you.

-Steve

[Gator]

Billy,

I too had been wondering about you and Nataly.  Thanks for bringing us up to date and telling it to us straight.

From being married to a clinically depressed woman for 25 years, I would not wish that on my enemies, much less friends.  I doubt that she would ever feel joyfully happy in America, and if mama ain't happy, no one is happy. 

Marrying her may have been the honorable thing, yet it could have brought years of misery or quiet desperation.

You say that you continue to talk.  If things get better, you could alwyas bring her here on a student visa or tourist visa.  Actually taking the plunge may be less stressful than worrying about it.

Anyone who thinks romancing and marrying a RW is easy has a lot to learn.

[KenC]

Billy,
I am truly sorry things did not work out for you.  I wish you only the best going forward regardless of what you decide to do.
KenC

[GoodOlBoy]

Sorry to hear about you and your ladies troubles BillyB.

It is a sad story and I hope everything will be OK for BOTH of you.

My wife has had nothing but good things to say about the GoodOl' USA, BUT...She NEVER "badmouths" Russia either....NEVER!

I will add one thing that Marina has been griping about lately. Just recently, at her company, the owner has slashed ALL employees paid vacation time in half.

Instead of my wife having 2 weeks, she now has 1 week paid vacation time.

The owner said he had to do this or start laying people off.

The bad thing is, I bought airline tickets back in February (when they were DIRT CHEAP) for Marina to go home to Omsk in September for 2 weeks.

Now, it looks like she will not get paid for one of the 2 weeks that she is there.


GOB

[BillyB]

Thanks for the sympathy guys. I probably don't need it compared to most people going through a breakup. I've always figured if you are a quality person to begin with, you will have no trouble catching another quality person. Maybe by the end of this thread most you guys will be envious instead of sympathetic! Also some people enjoy a life of short term relationships where they go from person to person experiencing a variety of people and life. Of course this is not my goal but it's not the worst thing in life either.

I think they both grew apart during those 3 years of long distance relationship and they just both were torturing each other and if for Billie it might be easy to find another lady, than for Natalia it might take few months to start dating again, that is very sad - they both did not figure it out long time ago....

Though nobody is judging , I wish them both to find their love and happiness and wish that they would not stop fighting for their love and  such things like visa and depression wont stop them from being with the people they love.

Hi Jazzy, long time no see and good to see you back. I've always monitored if there was any "growing apart" since time and distance can separate people. Every man wanting to have a relationship with a woman overseas should be aware of any deterioration of his relationship and continuously nurture it to keep things "growing together" instead of letting things fall apart. Maybe I overlooked something BUT she did want to marry and live with me in Uzbekistan and months after I broke up with her, she did change her mind and want to live in the States with me. She even contacted the embassy on her own to pick up the visa from what the embassy told me. But I felt she still wasn't ready mentally.

I believed she was very into me. Everytime I visited her, she was thrilled I came. She always met me at the airport even if the plane lands at 2AM in the morning. She lived with me in my apartment against her mother's wishes since her mother wanted her to be married first before living with a man. But I still had very strong support from her mother and she was all for me and Natalia getting married. Photos don't lie and the photos in my trip report show she's very happy when she's with me. If some of you can't see the photos in threads, you probably need to sign up and login in on the forum to see photos so do it. I know you're curious to see how ugly I am.

IMO and generalizing of course, if a lady says to me "I am seeking/wanting for Life Changes" my ears perk up and I go "on alert". I was not wanting/searching for a woman who was not happy with her life, a woman wanting change for change sake. I wanted to find a woman who was happy with her life other than she wanted "love" in her life. That for "love" and not for "change" would she consider leaving country, family and friends

again only MO I would suggest staying clear of any "seeking change" to me this just feels like their looking for a "mule"

Well... the truth is most people believe any woman wanting to marry a man from another country that's more proporous is desperate to get out or has insincere motives. They also think of us men doing this as desperate and losers too. It's okay for a woman to want a better life for herself and her kids. I don't want a woman who's satisfied living in a run down trailer park. Don't label a woman who says she seeks life changes. Just question her motives which could be sincere or insincere.

I too want a woman who is happy with her life back home and has a strong bond with her family but the truth is many of those women are less motivated to leave and seek men overseas and list themselves at a dating/marriage site so it's important to find a woman who can also make life changes.


Now on with the rest of the story.

Before I jump into the international dating scene again, I check out the local dating sites and I'm quickly reminded of why I don't want to go there. I wrote to a bunch of seemingly decent looking ladies on Craigslist and most profiles are fakes used to collect your email info and send you spam. Always use an email account you don't care about when doing this.

The majority of the real ladies there I don't care to write to. I'm not into overweight women and I don't care about women who brag they have tattoos, piercings and are into drugs. Where have these women been all their life? Seems like they're clueless on how to attract good men and will continue to wonder why they can't find a nice guy.  They're probably still looking for that good man in the wrong crowd. Not smart. Those fake profiles, probably written by men, know how to attract men a lot better than many of the real women in Craigslist.

I then try an international dating site once recommended by a lady posting here. Big mistake. Most of the international profiles are scams. I do correspond with a few women from all over the World. I made calls to England, India, Romania, and Nigeria besides emailing back in forth to women in France, USA and of course the FSU. Of course the calls to Nigeria were scams but I was curious on what they had to say. Their bad accent gave them away although most ladies from Nigeria claim to have been born in England. The scam is usually they need a ticket back home and at the mercy of some Nigerian men unless they can get out of country. They(scammers) would even call me back. They were persistant. They were trying to capitalized on men who are blinded with love based off a photo they seen on the internet. Don't be one of those men blinded by love and wanting to rescue women who's problems are solved with money.

I was calling a woman from India for a while and she had the hots for me. She invited me to visit and I said I would but I'd like to know more about her and I wanted her to send me more photos. After seeing her photos I told her she was not the woman in her profile and I won't be calling again. She begged me in many emails that it's not good for women in her country to put their actual photos in the internet for all men to see and she used Miss World/India, as her photo. I said "if that's true, why'd you use another woman from India?". She was not the only Miss World/Universe I was communicating with either. I communicated with Miss Universe/Russia who had the hots for me too but quickly learned it was a fake too.

I then talked to a woman from Romania. We talked all the time on the phone and she seemed a family oriented person and always asked about what I do with my kids. Good sign. Family oriented women tend to do that if she's trying to size you up as a potential father for her current or future kids. We planned on meeting and I was ready to jump on a plane but then she said she lost her cell phone and the heat in her apartment went out so she asked for money, through Western Union and through email, for a phone and a deposit for my rental apartment ahead of time and told me she was going to stay with me in my apartment while I'm in Romania since the heat in hers doesn't work.  My little head says "yes!" but my big head says "no!".....

[Simoni]

I then talked to a woman from Romania. We talked all the time on the phone and she seemed a family oriented person and always asked about what I do with my kids. Good sign. Family oriented women tend to do that if she's trying to size you up as a potential father for her current or future kids. We planned on meeting and I was ready to jump on a plane but then she said she lost her cell phone and the heat in her apartment went out so she asked for money, through Western Union and through email, for a phone and a deposit for my rental apartment ahead of time and told me she was going to stay with me in my apartment while I'm in Romania since the heat in hers doesn't work.  My little head says "yes!" but my big head says "no!".....

Oh, my.  Bless you, Billy. I'm SO GLAD I'm done with that junk and have a wonderful wife!  You can, too.  Just be patient and hang in there.

And I know a vet does not need advice, but I'll give some, anyway! LOL

Just go to a big FSU city and meet girls in real life and bypass the letter stage.  Letters can come after you find someone you like.

Good luck!

[Chillidog]

Thanks for the sympathy guys. I probably don't need it compared to most people going through a breakup. I've always figured if you are a quality person to begin with, you will have no trouble catching another quality person. Maybe by the end of this thread most you guys will be envious instead of sympathetic!

Well... the truth is most people believe any woman wanting to marry a man from another country that's more proporous is desperate to get out or has insincere motives. They also think of us men doing this as desperate and losers too. It's okay for a woman to want a better life for herself and her kids. I don't want a woman who's satisfied living in a run down trailer park. Don't label a woman who says she seeks life changes. Just question her motives which could be sincere or insincere.

I too want a woman who is happy with her life back home and has a strong bond with her family but the truth is many of those women are less motivated to leave and seek men overseas and list themselves at a dating/marriage site so it's important to find a woman who can also make life changes.

Before I jump into the international dating scene again, I check out the local dating sites and I'm quickly reminded of why I don't want to go there. I wrote to a bunch of seemingly decent looking ladies on Craigslist and most profiles are fakes used to collect your email info and send you spam.

but my big head says "no!".....

Hoping that "we" all will be jealous by the end, or better said "happy" and "joyful" for you

we can't concern ourselves with "what others will think" though how you describe the type of woman (her life goals) are probably what we all are looking/hoping to find, BUT it takes time and communication to discover/weed-out the sincere from the "less than sincere". with my first statement and yours here I think we are on the same page on this aspect

Did the same back in 2006 but didn't "hit Craig's list" (was it around then?) hit Match, Eharmony both are as much of a joke as Craig's list, side note looked at Craig's list recently (because a friend of mine is using it) and I thought "what a load of CRAP what a JOKE!!!"

Big head saying "no"
 is the only way to keep you focused on what your real goals are, but gosh I hate when that happens

[Daveman]

Hey BillyB, glad to see you posting again, though I do wish things had not taken that not so good (temporary) twist for you which hopefully will soon prove to be nothing but a stepping stone in finding what you're looking for.  You do seem to have come out the other end of the tunnel and have a new positive direction. Cool deal.

I wish you the best.
Dave

[BillyB]

My big head won out and I go back to what worked for me before with a few changes. I used just bride.ru an FSU dating site where a guy can get the contact info of the ladies without dealing with an agency. I printed out over a thousand profiles of ladies I was interested in. The main criteria was that she had to be good looking at least to my eyes. Yes, I'm shallow like most men but the I wouldn't recommend anyone to hook up with someone they aren't attracted to physically. The best thing about writing to so many beautiful ladies is that you won't put up with any crap that sometimes accompany them. If she's rude or stuck up, there's another beautiful lady out there to take her place. When men limit their options and have only one, they tend to make excuses for their woman's bad behavior and that it's not a red flag. They find themselves looking for reasons why they should stay with a woman of poor character when the reasons to leave are right in his face.

I'll readily admit I'm not smart enough to judge a woman's character based on her photo. For those guys who write only one woman after looking at her photo is towing the line of insanity and playing Russian Roulette. When you communicate with a lot of women, you give yourself more choices and a better chance to make a good choice. It's better for you and better for her when you both make good choices and are a good match. Chances are a high quality woman inside and out isn't going to just show up. She isn't likely going to be the first person you meet or see in a photo catalogue. You need to make some effort to find her.


At first I thought I'd send out emails to the thousand ladies I was interested in but didn't have the time at the time for a monstrous task so I reviewed all profiles and picked about 300 of my favorite profiles. After a week sending out the emails, I was not happy with the few good prospects that emailed me back. I suspect some of these ladies are popular and already have a lot of attention or got attached to another man or some of the profiles are a year old and the women gave up and not reading at her email much anymore.  I did something different this go around. I called around 150 of the ladies located all over the FSU. I did not sleep much during this time because of the ideal time to call some of these ladies wasn't my ideal time. A few ladies did not like me calling out of the blue and promptly hung up after they heard my voice. Those ladies went straight to my "do not call again" folder.

[Mishenka]

Hey Billyb,

Sorry to hear of your break up but clearly it was the best choice for you in your situation. It was the right choice for me a few months ago. Best of luck in the future, and keep thinking with your "big head" as you said.

I went through something similar with Galina from Tashkent. When her brother moved to Seattle, she went into deep depression and stopped talking to everyone, including me. She lost her job and was broke. She would not accept any financial help from me at all. She was to proud. One day she just stopped talking, stopped answering my calls, didn't write me back, etc so after waiting from February through May for some kind of answer from her, I ended it with a short phone call. I never heard another word from her since. She did not want to break up, but for me 4 months with so little communication was not acceptable. If this was indicative of a marriage with her, I didn't want it. I needed to move on so I did.

A few days later a woman contacted me through a Russian Language meet up group here in San Diego asking if I'd like to get to know her better, I said sure. We have been together over 2 months now with many hours of daily face to face time. 90% good relationship so far, but 10 % of the time....impossible to live with.  Time will tell.

Mishenka

[Gator]

....I reviewed all profiles and picked about 300 of my favorite profiles. After a week sending out the emails, I was not happy with the few good prospects that emailed me back. I suspect some of these ladies are popular and already have a lot of attention or got attached to another man or some of the profiles are a year old and the women gave up and not reading at her email much anymore.  I did something different this go around. I called around 150 of the ladies located all over the FSU.

I have not done such a search in years.  What is the difference between FSUW's attitude of today vs. a few years ago when you last cast your net into the FSUW sea? 

You seem to suggest that the percentage response rate is lower.  Of those who respond, what are they saying?