Life Changes

[Gator]

90% good relationship so far, but 10 % of the time....impossible to live with.

I would consider 90% remarkably high based on my years of experience.

It is one thing to become annoyed with the other person or to have a disagreement.  It is another matter to withdraw and shut the person off.  The latter is unacceptable to me.

My wife and I disagree frequently, yet we do not go to sleep without having reconciled it.  Then we forget about it.  Such an attitude is both healthy and productive.

[AnastassiaAsh]

Wow, so many long relationship break-ups lately, Mishenka, you too?

[Muddy]

I went through something similar with Galina from Tashkent. When her brother moved to Seattle, she went into deep depression and stopped talking to everyone, including me. She lost her job and was broke. She would not accept any financial help from me at all. She was to proud. One day she just stopped talking, stopped answering my calls, didn't write me back, etc so after waiting from February through May for some kind of answer from her, I ended it with a short phone call. I never heard another word from her since. She did not want to break up, but for me 4 months with so little communication was not acceptable. If this was indicative of a marriage with her, I didn't want it. I needed to move on so I did.

Sounds more like no communication than little communication.
How do you know she stopped talking to everyone? maybe she just stopped talking to you, you are not there so how do you know?
I cannot believe you waited from Feb to May, do you really think she did it just because her brother moved to antoher city? You waited all this time and did not even call her??? just waited and waited and ...
It seems she borkeup with you before you broke up with her my friend:)
How do you know she did not meet another man??

I cannot believe some of the posts I read here, its sad

[BillyB]

Hi Mishenka, sorry to hear you broke up with your fiancee Galina. I remember you two looking very happy together in photos. After she lost her job and refused any money from you, did you send money anyway? If you didn't, could be the reason she went silent. It's up to you to be the man and pick her up when she's down. Sometimes the hard life over there can break people's spirits. Ever look at young children in the FSU who are as happy and full of life as the children here and then you look at their parents and grandparents and see the toll of what a hard life can do to a person mentally and physically?

I have not done such a search in years.  What is the difference between FSUW's attitude of today vs. a few years ago when you last cast your net into the FSUW sea?  

You seem to suggest that the percentage response rate is lower.  Of those who respond, what are they saying?

The attitudes seemed the same. In both writing campaigns, I noticed the ladies who are new on the internet and just started this process have a different attitude than those who's been doing this for weeks, months and even years. New ladies seem optimistic and think this adventure is romantic and has lots of promise that will make their dreams come true. Ladies who's been in it a while tend to be more pessimistic after dealing with too many keyboard romeos and wackos.

The response rate is lower this time I feel is due to me writing to my top 300 favorite ladies instead of over 600 last time. Everyone could agree my top 10 ladies are beautiful but my favorites from 300-600 may look average in other guy's eyes although the women are still good looking to me. The average woman in a group of the top 300 is more appealing than the average woman in a group of the top 600. So the group of 300 being more attractive has more attention from males and these ladies have more choices to choose from than just me. They are more likely to get attached to a man quicker and have made themselves unavailable. If I wrote to 600 ladies this time, it's possible my response rate would be the same as last go around due to the fact I would have been writing ladies that receive less attention and of course still available.

One reason I was not happy with the email correspondence was because I did not have the high quality of communication I had with my ex fiancee. I have higher standards now because of her. She was sincere, genuine and genuinely interested in me. Wrote me everyday and I knew she was into me 100%. That's why I moved on to trying something new by calling up the ladies who did not respond to me in email yet to give myself more options.

Although a few ladies hung up on me when I started a phone campaign, most were very happy I called. Sometimes sisters and mothers would answer the phone and were happy I called. Sometimes the woman would be out of town for work or school and they tell me to call back. One policy I had was to never speak when a man answered. If the woman I wanted to call had a boyfriend or was married, I didn't want to get her in trouble. I would stay silent until he hung up and make him believe it was just a bad connection. If I spoke or hung up first, it could make him become suspicious.

Sometimes there was no answer but 5-30 minutes later I would get a call back. One ring and they would hang up. It's some type of phone tag these ladies like to play. If you want to call her, it's on your dime. I suspect they did not answer initially because of the strange phone number listed on their phone and/or they were not in the best situation or place to talk to someone new. Before calling I'd flip through over 100 printed out profiles to make sure I know who called me. Once I got her name, I called.

My calls usually start out saying "hello" and introducing myself and letting them know I sent them an email and to read it. Some of the ladies have not read their emails in weeks or months. If things sound good, we talk more.

I'll give you some descriptions of my talks with the ladies.

One gorgeous lady who was 4 years older than me(I'm 39) was very interested in me and we talked for over 30 min. She had a business in Ukraine and when getting to the subject of our experiences after I told her I've seen her on the international dating scene years ago, she told me she was previously involved with American men. One disclosed he was married after they got engaged and she dumped him although he promised to divorce his wife soon. The other she actually got married to but when she got to California, she found out he was still married and she got an annulment. All through this she was still optimistic to find her man. After talking to the ladies, I send them an email to check it and they can decide if they want to continue with me or not. This lady enjoyed talking to me but she said I was not her man. I understand I'm not going to be attractive to all ladies and I know that not all ladies are interested in a man that is not Caucasian. I'm half Vietnamese and half American. I don't let things like that bother me. I know there's someone out there for everyone.

Another woman I talked to, 22 yo, was thrilled to talk to me but then this man would answer 4 calls in a row. After determining he was older and could be his father, I broke my policy of not speaking to men and talked with him to ask if M was home. He was the father and told me "no" but he enjoyed talking with me in his very limited English. Mikhail was his name. We had a few good conversations in the next few calls but one day his wife picked up the phone and said in a stern voice "M does not need you!" That was my last call to that number.

One lady told me she married a Japanese man and currently living in Japan but I happened to call her on a short visit back to her family. She and a few others were married or acquired boyfriends since posting their profile. Amazingly many of the gorgeous women I called were still single.

Not all FSU women I called lived in the FSU. Some were living in Europe. Most who lived outside the FSU were divorced from the man who brought them to their new home country.

One lady who owned a business told me she would only consider me if I'd consider living in St. Petersburg. She was open to marrying a man from a different country but had no desire to leave Russia.

One young lady told me she was never interested in finding a foreign man but her parents put up her profile as a joke to see all the strange men that would write her and laugh about it. After talking with her 15 min, I knew I made a good impression and I'm sure she then believed that not all men finding love on the internet is crazy.

One lady who looked stunning and described herself as elegant and classy in her profile shocked me when I called. I had high hopes for her. She occasionally used the words Sh!t and Fuc and talked about her city of Novosibirsk as a sh!thole. She was the only FSU woman to use bad language with me. She told me she has a child by a man from England but he left her soon after and bad mouth him about a few other things. She did not disclose the child in her profile. Her excuse was that people don't need to know certain things in her life on the internet. I told her to read the email I sent her and that I'm certainly a better man than her last boyfriend. The more I talked with her, the less I respected her and I felt she was not happy that I didn't speak her kind of language with the occasional garbage coming out. She also didn't want to live in Russia. I felt she is ripe to use a man to get out. She is also ripe to be used by a man who'd promise her what she wants. If she's not careful, the rest of her children will all have different fathers.

One lady who's profile was up for a year was so bewildered I called after all this time accused me of being a desperate man and hung up the phone.

Every other woman that were surprised that I called over a year after they put up their profile on bride.ru were very hapy to talk to me. They gave up hope, especially those who have been wasted much time being victims of broken promises and/or being sent nude photos of men or requests for nude photos from strange men. Many ladies enjoyed initially talking to me but later did not see me as her man or after they seen my photo even though they considered me a good man or I did not feel we were a match and stopped calling them myself. Although I was not their man or she was not my woman, I gave some of the ladies renewed hope there are good intelligent men they could find on the internet and sometimes days later I would see them post a new profile and giving this internet thing another shot to find their happiness.

One thing I noticed is the city women on average spoke English better than women in smaller towns. If a town and a city girl says they both speak fluent English in their profile, I'd believe the city girl's profile is truth and a town girl speaks intermediate English instead of fluent. No big deal on how they rate themselves but just my observation and evidence the education in the big cities is better than in the small towns when it comes to teaching foreign languages.

[BillyB]

Out of the remaining ladies I was regularly talking to on the phone, I did not find one that gave me what I wanted. Sure it's nice to be talking to a beautiful woman and listen to her giggle as she's excited to talk to you but I needed to find more of a match. Some of the ladies asked me to visit them and I told them I had the means to do so but I needed to know more about them as a person first. We continued to talk but I needed to look further but if I didn't find exactly what I wanted, I'd probably settle for one or more of these women to visit.

 

I called new ladies as their new profiles came out and I went back to my "do not call again" folder and called some ladies that I felt hesitated before hanging up the phone on me. Maybe I caught them at a bad time and/or off guard previously.

 

Some ladies from the do not call list hung up on me again. Some talked and told me they're not available for reasons they are in a relationship or gave up on the Internet. Some where happy to talk to me and the reason they did not before was because I called at a bad time.

 

One lady, on my do not call list, I clicked with real well. I called her at work and although I didn't want to make a habit of it she said it was okay. She worked in a law office as an attorney's assistant and sometimes I hear someone walk into her office and speak with her and she'd tell me in English "one moment" and then talk to them and after continue her conversation with me. Another time she said "one moment" and I could hear her high heals walking down the hall then talking to a co-worker and then getting back to talking to me. This is a good sign she's not trying to hide me from co-workers and values my calls.

 

At home she acts more peppy when talking to me instead of having a more serious tone at work. She'll talk to me in front of her friends too. Good sign she's not hiding me in front of her friends. Once she was at her friends house while her friend was on the Internet and she said "Oh Oh!" I asked her what's going on an she told me her friend was on bride.ru too and a man in his 80's wrote a letter to her friend who is 30.

 

We had many similar beliefs and I felt she valued me, serious about serious relations and could relocate, earned my trust, genuinely into me, and was a quality woman. Many other good things I could say about her but you guys get the point. She was definitely worth visiting and my destination was going to be Kiev, Ukraine.

 

I told my friends I would be out of town and they were shocked I was going back. They think of this endeavor as risky. Two of them are single but don't have the will to look beyond 20 miles of where they live. They've seen the FSU dating sites I used and all agreed the women there were gorgeous. After seeing the photo of the lady I was going to visit, the words they used to describe her was that she's smoking hot. She was 172 cm tall with long blond hair and a slim build. 29 years old and university educated.

 

Tickets are bought and apartment reservations made. This was going to be a visit one(VO) trip, a very safe one, but I had a lot of backup. I was prepared to give her all my time or call back up ladies if things didnt work out. One reason I didn't have a true #2 was because my other favorites did not live in Kiev. On the forum I usually recommend a guy to visit many but that's because of the circumstances the he hasn't communicated thoroughly with the ladies to make a good determination of a one woman visit. It takes tons of communication to figure out another person and to filter out who is or isn't right for you. The more communication, the less chance to make a mistake.

 

A guy or girl may have to communicate with dozens or hundreds of people to find a winner. Those of you who wrote one, found your love, married and are happy don't know how lucky you are. Those of you who are currently communicating with one, shunning all others don't know the risk you're facing. Limiting your choices will limit your chance to find who's the best match for you. Choosing one photo off the Internet and believing he or she is the one is borderline insanity.

 

[Muddy]

Those of you who are currently communicating with one, shunning all others don't know the risk you're facing. Limiting your choices will limit your chance to find who's the best match for you. Choosing one photo off the Internet and believing he or she is the one is borderline insanity.

 

I agree, trying again is insanity too, there is so much that can go wrong just like the first time, getting on the plane 3+ times for 10+ hours is just too much if things dont work out AGAIN.
Maybe its not a bad idea to try to find a girl in your area.

[KenC]

BillyB,
Nice thread with many hidden gems of advice on how to tell a sincere woman from one not so sincere.  Most of your advice (or descriptions of your actions) is rather analytical and pragmatic which is very helpful in separating the wheat from the chaff in your potential dating pool.  But don't you think that in the end, it all boils down to chemistry or how the two of you fit together emotionally?

It is important to follow your criteria and do your due diligence, but in the end, all you can really accomplish is to provide yourself with the best possible candidates to fall in love with.  And like all affairs of the heart, doesn't it all boil down to fate or luck in the end?  Either the two of you find what it is you are looking for in each other or not?
KenC

[Bruce]

I too am sorry when I things not working out for long term internet friends.    Everything happens for the best.    Hang in there, keep your head up, enjoy life and keep a lot of poles in the water in a variety of locations.   Remember, "you've got to be in it to win it."

[AugustD]

BillyB,  I don't know what is more impressive - the way you handle your process or the way you explain it here.  What an incredible persistence you have.  I really enjoyed reading it and I am not one that likes to get caught up in details.  I read each and every detail you presented.

A man that truly does the numbers as you have has a better understanding than one that does not of course.  I wrote many women but my processes paled in comparison to yours.  I am very impressed.

Could you give some sort of breakdown in percentage within your experience please when you started to "cold call" women?  Maybe some correlation to beauty or age in comparison to your getting an interested "live" person on the phone?  Did you see an interesting tendencies?

I felt sorry for you when I first read the start of this thread but it is hard to pity a man that grabs "the bull by the horns" as you do and goes and gets results.  I am very confident that in the end it will all work out quite well for you.

[Faux Pas]

I agree, trying again is insanity too, there is so much that can go wrong just like the first time, getting on the plane 3+ times for 10+ hours is just too much if things dont work out AGAIN.
Maybe its not a bad idea to try to find a girl in your area.

Muddy, I am not trying to bust your chops here but, your attitude is defeatist and dogmatic. If 3 trips and 10 hours per trip is "just too much" for you, then you really shouldn't try again and stay locally. The entire process, cradle to grave, of one woman can take much more than that. Some guys get lucky and everything falls into place, some guys don't and as Billy can attest, through no fault of their own. It takes dogged determination added with a dose of luck and the willingness to see it through. FWIW

[GQBlues]

I forgot who chimed it, but someone said 'luck' is nothing more than " preparation and opportunity colliding!"

Of course that doesn't always equate to having to go to FSU to chance 'luck'. Still, I give BillyB a lot of props. I, for one, couldn't see myself doing this (FSU) over again if my life takes a different turn from this point on.

[Misha]

No big deal on how they rate themselves but just my observation and evidence the education in the big cities is better than in the small towns when it comes to teaching foreign languages.

An alternate explanation is that women who speak English well have a much better chance of finding a good job in a bigger city, so they have much greater motivation to move to a bigger city.

[Simoni]

Misha, you didn't cite the source so I don't know who made the comment about foreign language offerings being superior in big cities.

But my experience is that big cities deal with a diverse population that makes the overall educational offering challenging.  And if you are a mixed language couple, as most of us here are, then I'd be more concerned about the broader academic program than the language program. Our kids will already be fluent in two languages, and can add a third quite easily.

[Misha]

Misha, you didn't cite the source so I don't know who made the comment about foreign language offerings being superior in big cities.

Sorry, it was from Billy's post.

But my experience is that big cities deal with a diverse population that makes the overall educational offering challenging.  And if you are a mixed language couple, as most of us here are, then I'd be more concerned about the broader academic program than the language program. Our kids will already be fluent in two languages, and can add a third quite easily.

There are a number of other factors that come into play. I met one young woman in a small Russian town (population 5,000 or so) who spoke close excellent English and she attended a local school. How did she learn? Motivation and one good teacher as well as parents who supported and encouraged her.

I am biased, however. I grew up on a farm an my favorite "toy" as a child was my microscope and I was reading Scientific American in a house that did not have running water. Did better than many peers who grew up in big cities with all of their educational advantages.

[Simoni]

In the US, the better schools do tend to be in the richer suburbs.  Also, small towns that are an hour's drive from the city tend to be strong.

Quite honestly, I don't know what we will do when our child turns five.  I think we will have to move to an area where the education is stronger.  The best teachers flee city schools.   And the key to a good school is having the best teachers.

I also agree with you that it's important for kids to be motivated and in essence, self-taught.

[Simoni]

It is important to follow your criteria and do your due diligence, but in the end, all you can really accomplish is to provide yourself with the best possible candidates to fall in love with.  And like all affairs of the heart, doesn't it all boil down to fate or luck in the end?  Either the two of you find what it is you are looking for in each other or not?
KenC

This is a really good post Ken, and an excellent point, so I thought I would repost it and comment.

Personally, I experience a girl that appeared to be a soulmate via our letters.  But something was missing when we met in real life.  That experience taught me to meet the girl before investing months in letter writing.  And if I had "connected" with that girl when I met her?  Like you say...Luck.

I have heard the quote GQ provide many times, mostly about creating fumbles or turnovers on the football field.  But in the game of life, even though you can try to "make" your luck via preparation, I still firmly believe it is usually outside the hard work of the individual, and is an element of fate.

[Muddy]

   Natalia had been hospitalized at least once a year every year I've known her. The first time it happened freaked me out since I couldn't talk to her for a few weeks to find out what's going on. She has high blood pressure and occasional migraines and sometimes life's stresses may cause her mental and physical stress beyond the norm. Her condition is related to the reason she failed the interview.

A few weeks is too long, you mean she did not even have her mobile in the hospital with her?
No contact at all for a few weeks, if this is the case if I were you the first time this had happned I would have forgotten her and moved on.

[Misha]

A few weeks is too long, you mean she did not even have her mobile in the hospital with her?

Russian hospitals often don't allow patients to keep cell phones with them, if I am not mistaken.

[ambach123]

Billy someone already said it, you have incredible persistance.

Nonethless, as I see you made hundreds of cold calls, with zero results. Is this the best use of your resources?

At bride.ru, where you got their telephone numbers, they specifically ask NOT to call. I am sorry I don't see any wisdom in what you did.

You seem to be an articulate and knowledgable young man, so what is the problem that you have to resort to cold calling?

[BillyB]

BillyB,
  But don't you think that in the end, it all boils down to chemistry or how the two of you fit together emotionally?

It is important to follow your criteria and do your due diligence, but in the end, all you can really accomplish is to provide yourself with the best possible candidates to fall in love with.  And like all affairs of the heart, doesn't it all boil down to fate or luck in the end?  Either the two of you find what it is you are looking for in each other or not?

You are correct Ken. Chemistry in the end is important. Communicating with ladies is important before a guy goes to the FSU too. It won't guarantee he finds the right woman but he can weed out those he's not compatible with less risk of heartache, wasted time and money. Fate and luck is needed but with preparation, a guy doesn't have to rely on luck as much.

[BillyB]

I agree, trying again is insanity too, there is so much that can go wrong just like the first time, getting on the plane 3+ times for 10+ hours is just too much if things dont work out AGAIN.
Maybe its not a bad idea to try to find a girl in your area.

I do keep my eyes open everywhere. At home, Europe, Asia, and of Course the FSU. Trying again isn't insanity. Giving up is. I enjoy courting and the pursuit of women. In some ways I understand why Playboys have so much fun. I also enjoy traveling and the plane ride probably doesn't bother me as much as others.

[BillyB]

Could you give some sort of breakdown in percentage within your experience please when you started to "cold call" women?  Maybe some correlation to beauty or age in comparison to your getting an interested "live" person on the phone?  Did you see an interesting tendencies?

I'd say 75% were happy to talk to me on the phone. 10% hung up and 15% never answered. Some phone #s had a new owner or not in service. Calls were blocked and I suspect it was done on purpose from previously bad experiences from the wackos calling.

Age and beauty weren't a factor in getting an interested person on the phone. If they were looking for a man and liked how I talked, they were interested in listening to what I had to say.

[BillyB]

A few weeks is too long, you mean she did not even have her mobile in the hospital with her?
No contact at all for a few weeks, if this is the case if I were you the first time this had happned I would have forgotten her and moved on.

Natalia never owned a cell phone except the time she brought her brother's to St. Petersburg in which it ended up getting stolen at the metro.

If a woman didn't take my calls purposely for weeks, I have no problem moving on. I'm not desperate. After my last trip to the FSU, my mom told me some of the concerns of hers that I might be meeting insincere women. I showed my mom photos of all the ladies I've dated to show her they aren't trashy. The words that came out of her mouth was "These women look like their out of your league and some look like models". I told her "you're just looking on the outside". These ladies are University educated or currently going to the University, don't smoke, drink or cuss. Most the ladies have parents that are still married and they wish the same and come from strong families. Some of their parents own businesses. They are classy, have good manners and they have a lot going for them in life. They don't need me and they have lot's of options when it comes to men but some of the ladies hands are shaking when they write down their phone number for me. Maybe they think I'm out of their league?

[BillyB]

I see you made hundreds of cold calls, with zero results. Is this the best use of your resources?

Zero results? Lol. I'm not finished here. Whether or not calling phone numbers is considered the best use of my resources, it is a resource and it's certainly better than emails. You'd be surprised how many men go to the FSU without ever talking to the ladies on the phone. They shouldn't be surprised if a woman is a different person from what they imagined.

At bride.ru, where you got their telephone numbers, they specifically ask NOT to call. I am sorry I don't see any wisdom in what you did.

Sometimes when a woman says "No", she means "Yes".... to the right man. The main reason the ladies don't want unknown people calling is because the weirdos and perverts may bother them all day everyday.  If they are still looking for good man, they most likely aren't going to hang up the phone throwing away opportunity, especially if you sound intelligent and they like your tone of voice. You also might be surprised how much a woman admires a man who'd chase her a little harder than the standard keyboard romeos that dominate her emails.

You seem to be an articulate and knowledgable young man, so what is the problem that you have to resort to cold calling?

I didn't have to resort to cold calling. I had women inviting me to see them through email but I wasn't entirely happy with my options so I gave many ladies a wake up call that I'm interested in them. Also I learned many women quit reading emails or don't read as much because they gave up finding a good man on the internet usually because the men aren't so serious, make false promise or tired of dealing with crazy men I told the ladies with that view not to give up and there are a few good men still out there. Calling woke them up to go back and read the mail I sent earlier. Some of the ladies probably didn't like the way I looked after seeing my photo but they enjoyed talking to me and some of those ladies would renew their profile and give it another chance to find love. Good for them.

[BillyB]

Spoke to my ex fiancee Natalia this weekend. At the end of our conversation, she told me to say "hello" to my family and friends. She still wants me to circulate her name with the people I know. She doesn't tell me directly but I know she assumes I need to make the next move but I can't until I feel she is mentally ready. It's her move. It's not completely over but based on current events I'll talk about later in this thread, it's almost over.

My first visit to the FSU since we broke up was to visit a woman I'll call O. A week before my visit her tone of voice changed. I asked her what's wrong and she told me she just lost her job. Of course the thought of scam crossed my mind but it didn't affect the way I talked to her on the phone. I was sympathetic and asked her if there was anything I could do to help. She told me "No". If she told me "yes" she needed money. I wouldn't speak to her again. I would think scam. Even if it wasn't a scam, if a woman doesn't have friends and family to help her when she's down, she may have more people problems that I'm willing to deal with.

I get there and she's not in Kiev but in Vinnitsa visiting her parents. I knew she went to see her parents out of town after losing her job but she said she'd be back when I arrived. She now tells me she'll be back in a couple of days. Not a good sign and I begin to think I should start calling other ladies.