Life Changes

[Muddy]

 

[groovlstk]

Why don't you find go something to play with donkey man?
groovlstk "the donkey man" is back on my ignore list!
Sorry Billy, its not my fault your topic is going in the wrong direction again!

Not quite sure what I did to fall off your ignore list Muddy, but you can be sure of one thing: whenever you post your bitter little rants about RW, I will be there to put things in proper perspective, so get used to it 

[Muddy]

No, you just cant forget about the keylogger.
keylogger, keylogger, keylogger, ....
I bet you think about the keylogger everyday
at home and at work you think about poster Muddy and the keylogger
muddy, keylogger, keylogger, muddy, keylogger, keylogger, muddy,.... lol

[GQBlues]

BillyB-

Out of curiosity, I'm not sure if what you're writing right now is retro-T/R or is actually happening at this moment, nor am I sure if you covered my query below in this thread so please excuse me if I missed it (them)....

Have you considered searching for RWs (UWs) who are already are here in the US? Singles/Mamba/Love.Rambler/Love.Mail.rus share the same databases and they are all loaded with women already residing in the US. Meeting one who's already here certainly eliminate a lot of uncertainties and angst that normally accompany with pursuing one in the FSU.

Not sure if you're open to this idea or not (?).

[GQBlues]

To tell you the truth Russian women are overrated!

There is a member many old timers know who went by the handle 'iolani' who was married for over 9 years IIRC. I recently heard he just got divorced and one of the things he said in passing was exactly what Muddy said above, or maybe the adventure itself was what he was trying to describe.

I'm sure many members here who's been around a while would know who iolani is...

[Daveman]

No, you just cant forget about the keylogger.
keylogger, keylogger, keylogger, ....
I bet you think about the keylogger everyday
at home and at work you think about poster Muddy and the keylogger
muddy, keylogger, keylogger, muddy, keylogger, keylogger, muddy,.... lol

Key Logger, ain't that in southern Florida?

[Mars]

There is a member many old timers know who went by the handle 'iolani' who was married for over 9 years IIRC. I recently heard he just got divorced and one of the things he said in passing was exactly what Muddy said above, or maybe the adventure itself was what he was trying to describe.

I'm sure many members here who's been around a while would know who iolani is...

- - - -

Yeah, I seem to remember that name.  Wasn't he hooked up with a woman from St Petersburg?

[Mars]

Key Logger, ain't that in southern Florida?

Yes, that was where Humphrey Bogart lived.

[SANDRO43]

Yes, that was where Humphrey Bogart lived.

And Ernie Hemingway used to fish .

[BillyB]

I'm not sure if what you're writing right now is retro-T/R or is actually happening at this moment, nor am I sure if you covered my query below in this thread so please excuse me if I missed it (them)....

Have you considered searching for RWs (UWs) who are already are here in the US? Singles/Mamba/Love.Rambler/Love.Mail.rus share the same databases and they are all loaded with women already residing in the US. Meeting one who's already here certainly eliminate a lot of uncertainties and angst that normally accompany with pursuing one in the FSU.

Not sure if you're open to this idea or not (?).

What I'm talking about now in this thread is stuff happening over 3 months ago and I'll be working my way in this thread to where I'm at now eventually.

I've looked at the sites you mentioned and I think they're excellent to find someone and would consider them. But back then I had plenty of women to communicate with at bride.ru. A guy can only handle so much before he overloads. I've called ladies in the USA, Asia(FSU), England, and Nigeria. Those Nigerian scammers like to call me back! I knew they were scammers but I was curious to see how they played out the scam.  Keep in mind, I'm far from pursuing one woman in the FSU. The one woman who gives me the most sincere attention will get me to visit her. She has the option to see me the whole time and if not or if things don't work out, I can date others in a heartbeat. Things could have gone completely positive with the two women I met so far. If one's parents approved or if the other did not live with her ex boyfriend, I'd probably report a happy story by now.

It's hard to find two women in the same city that will give you sincere and quality correspondence. Unless I can find two quality ladies who invests a lot of time with me and do a VM, I'll dedicate my time to the one lady who invests time in me and do a VO. Keep reading, it's very easy to get dates and make connections in the FSU just by meeting ladies on the street.

[BillyB]

After breaking it off with V, I called up O, who was the no show lady during my last visit. She did not answer the phone. She calls back later but it's noisy outside and I'll be at my apartment in a few minutes anyway. I'd call her back. I get to the flat and check who call the flat's phone and O had called there to my surprise. She has both my rental phone and flat phone still stored in her phone. She remembers me and knows it's I calling after 2 months of no communication.

I call her up and we talk and she asks me why I'm in Kiev. I told her the truth but it didn't work out with the lady. I sense in her tone of voice she was upset and jealous. I reminded her what happened last time and she could've had me all to herself if she wanted. I told her lets go out as friends and that's all. She agrees and she needs a few hours to prepare and to call her later. She is still unemployed I learned and it's not easy finding a job with the bad economy.

I call back later and she tells me she can't go out and hangs up the phone. She was a jealous one after all.

I went to a cafe in a mall that is across from a jewelry store. A good looking woman working in the jewelry store was occasionally looking at me and smiling and I did the same when I was on a previous visit to Kiev. On my previous visit I walked into the store and asked her name. She told me her name in a timid and soft voice obviously flattered. But she had a boyfriend. On my second visit back 2 months later she sees me sitting at the same table in the cafe again and smiles. She remembers my face. I make the phone signal with my hand and put it to my ear but she shakes her head no. She still has a boyfriend and she's a good woman for staying devoted to him.

One of the dates I had was with L from bride.ru. She's 22 and just moved to Kiev a month ago and she had her profile up for two weeks but that was enough for her to want to remove it after dealing with the crappy men who write her she said. I convince her to go out although she didn't because her sister's birthday party is in a few hours. She told me Ukrainian women need hours to prepare for a date.

I take a taxi and we drive to the edge of Kiev which is a long drive to where she lives. As we drive further from the center of Kiev, I notice the people were on average shorter, dressed poorer and in black, and there were much less % of blondes in the crowds. Some people were selling stuff on the sidewalk like they do at a swap meet/flea market. A few guys sold only a few items such as 3 used door knobs. Sitting out there all day with a lack of merchandise to make any decent money doesn't make sense but what else are they to do?

I seen L standing on the sidewalk as we drive closer and she seems stressed and smoking a cigarette. Women who smoke turn me off. But the rest of the date went great and the more I talked to her the more she liked me and began to think good men can be found on the internet. I tell her not to lose hope. She's seemed stressed out most of the date as if she has a lot of worries in life. Living alone in a new city with a new job away from family and friends for a month now can do that to a person.

I met another woman in a cafe. M is her name. She occasionally smiled and locked eyes with me. I knew she was attracted to me and I had to get her number. The only problem was she was sitting with two older people and I thought they were her parents. They weren't later I found out. I figured the best way to get her number was not to be rude and interupt them while they were eating. I waited till they left and had to pass by my table. When M did, I said "Excuse me, what is your name?" She replies and I ask "Could I call you sometime?" She said she didn't speak English well and I said "It sounds good enough to me." at the same time pulling out a pen and paper for her to use.

The next day I text her "I'd like to see you at the coffee shop tonight" and she text back "I not that type of woman! Do you have a wife?" She misunderstood but she couldn't make it because she was leaving Kiev to visit her grandmother. M is the best prospect I am left with leaving Kiev.

I find it very easy to get a RW's phone number after they give me "the look" that they are attracted to me. I've approached RW who did not give me "the look" and they would sometimes ignore my question or turn their back to me. Some of these women are extremely cold or just staying true to their man but still a little on the cold side.

Most women will tell you they are attracted to a man's intelligence but if you're not physically attractive to them, you won't get to talk to them enough to show your other fine qualities. Don't underestimate physical attraction. You may not have movie star looks but you can do other things such as exercise, improve your personal hygiene and improve your attire but don't overdress. I once seen an American in tennis shoes, jeans, and a shirt that was basically a tee shirt with an iron on pattern on it, go out with a nice looking slim woman with a nice summer dress and high heels. He had a beer belly and long hair that wasn't combed but held together in the back with a rubber band. I don't think she will be thinking of him as the man who will father her children. While us men would sleep with most any woman who's willing, women are more choosy when looking for good genes for her future kids.

[BillyB]

Over 3 months ago, I get back home from my second trip to Kiev since the breakup with Natalia, my ex fiancee. I usually don't sleep well my first day back since I  have to adjust to a 10 hour time zone difference.

I had a dream about Natalia happily wanted to marry me and will come live with me in America and life was great after that. At the time, I didn't call Natalia for 3 weeks slowly creating more distance between my calls to her as I was moving forward with my life. I wake up and think "crap" it was a dream and not true.

I call Natalia that morning and she has a major change of tune and was happy to hear my voice and wanted to marry me and come to America! We had a good talk and we were both thrilled and happy. I think about the prospects I left Kiev with and weighed my options. It's better to have a bird in hand than two in the bush. I call up friends and family to tell them the good news and call the embassy to release the visa.

There is a problem. The embassy needs my phone records to make sure there was no breakup and they will release the visa. My phone records will not give them what they want. Sometimes I wouldn't call Natalia for weeks. My phone records would also show I've made calls all over the FSU too. The possibility hit me that we would have to start the k-1 all over again.

Another issue that bugged me was in the next few days I talked to Natalia, I did not like her answer to a question I asked. I asked her why she now decided to change her mind. She said it's because she's doing it for me and it's what I want. With the embassy taking the wind out of my sails and with the reasons why Natalia changed her mind, I was not going to marry her with answer like that. I want her to marry me and live in America based off a strong desire of her own.

Not only can I marry Natalia in Tashkent, that option was never off the table, but I can now marry her in America again but instead I now focus on M after my last trip to Kiev and our communications are going great. I don't ask her age and she doesn't ask mine until 3 weeks later. It's almost if many of these FSU women don't care about things like that. Agency hype is not all hype after all. I estimated her age to be in the mid to late 20's. My mom thought she was 30 years old based off the photos I have of her.

My son was watching a video on Youtube and the main woman in the video looks very similar to M in looks. It blew my mind away. M had dark tone skin and is a brunette too with the same hair style. Same bone structure and facial features but with a touch of the Slavic look. She's all woman and could stand in a room full of blondes and be the center of attention. She smiles and has fantastic charisma when she talks and walks just like the woman in the video. Start the video at 53 seconds into it to get an idea on how M looks except M does wear more clothes than the girl in the video.

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWCpfRZfVEc[/youtube]

[Muddy]

Natalia has problems, mental problems, sometimes you did not talk to her for weeks because you could not reach her

Her answer to your question was not good either

If M is not the girl who lived with her ex boyfriend and if you like her then take your time

For get the girl who lived with her ex boyfriend, she is not good, lied already, who knows maybe she is banging the man she living with and the guy is nailing her every night, some night if she could not meet you is because her boyfriend asks questions and its hard to make excuses every night, like she told you "its her body" means she can f-ck whoever she wants, forget her.

If I were you I would forget about Natalia too, too many problems with her already

[Muddy]

For Billy ONLY:
http://www.loveme.com/invar/services/women/women_extraphoto.php?wid=105604&wname=4_Liliya

http://www.loveme.com/invar/services/women/women_extraphoto.php?wid=104462&wname=6_Irina

http://www.loveme.com/invar/services/women/women_extraphoto.php?wid=104367&wname=6_Irina

[Muddy]

I dont know if you are in Kiev now or in the US, you are doing a good job of meeting girls on the street but it does not hurt to look at catalogs on the internet elena models, kiev connections,...
Lot of girls from Kiev on these 2 sites

[BillyB]

I going to finish what I started. I took another break from the forum because I've been busy....very busy with RW. It takes work to maintain a relationship with woman but it takes lots of work chasing women too!

Natalia has problems, mental problems,

It's in most people's nature to insult someone when things don't go smooth with them. Muddy, you weren't around on the forums when I spoke highly of Natalia. She's kind, generous, got a big heart, caring, elegant, charming, classy, a wonderful family woman and I've mentioned much much more. I take nothing back. She is still that great woman. She has so many great qualities that she makes most people look like they have the problems. She's one of the finest ladies in the World. If you truly knew the fine person she is, it would be hard to hate her based on any flaws she may have.

Marriage with her was never off the table but I didn't want to do it in Uzbekistan. Now, as I mentioned in a previous post, marriage in America is back on the table but I need time to learn if she's truly ready and not just doing this for me but for her and for us. Although marriage is my goal, but it has to feel right. It's nice to marry a beautiful lady, thump my chest here and be one of the go to guys for marriage advice but I'm not going to use Natalia as a trophy to show off here or to family and friends. I'm concerned about her well being and I don't want her to be in environment that she may not be able to handle.

Sometimes people don't know how a life change can affect them until it's in their face. It does not mean they are mentally ill. Before I and other would be soldiers went into basic training in the Army, there was a week of getting documents processed and getting immunizations that happened before the actual training started. Some guys talked about about their previous lifestyles such as being in a gang and how tough they were. The drill seargent quickly figured out who they're dealing with. I was promoted squad leader and some nights those previous gang members wanted to talk to me about how they're going into shock and can't take it anymore because of the change they are going through now. They'd be wiping away tears as they asked me to talk to the drill seargent about letting them go home. They thought they were strong to face changes in their life. Natalia thought she was strong enough but it doesn't mean they have mental problems because they thought wrong.


4 weeks home after meeting M during my second trip to Kiev she ask me my age. I quit talking about age with RW I meet on the streets because they don't seem to have a problem with it as much as their American counterparts. The agency hype isn't all hype. More evidence to come later. After I tell M I'm 39, she tells me she's 19 and she's still young. She says it in a way that seeks my approval. She looks like the spitting image of the woman in the video I posted a few posts ago. She could pass to be 27 easily.

After 3 weeks communicating with her I learn she has similar beliefs as I in many things. I always let the women speak their mind on issues before I. I don't like to be played. I talk to her about hot topics such as religion and abortion. She has the same faith and same stance on abortion as I in that people should be responsible for their actions and the unborn baby is considered a human life. Sometimes I see posters communicating with each on this forum and I know they have great respect for each other. One day a hot topic comes up that they disagree on and you could watch the respect turn to hate. There are many sensitive topics that are important to discuss before marriage. I know there are many guys tout there hat are probably not wanting to say anything to upset the woman they are trying to catch. If a guy gets married without knowing his woman, he should not be surprised if she starts hating him because a of his beliefs finally comes out that's different from hers or vice versa.


I use the same apartment service and see the same apartment manager Alex again. He tells me I'm staying in a famous building. Soviet star on top and Mercedes and BMW's are parked outside. The exterior of the building is in need of repair though. The mortar is crumbling and mortar is what holds the brick together. Alex knows my what happened on my last 2 trips to Kiev with ladies. He figured out the kind of man I am and knows I'm not a sex tourist or trying to take advantage of sincere Ukrainian women. As we stand on the balcony, he looks down and says "Out of 1000 women who passes on that sidewalk down there, about 400 horny women would be interested in a good man like you". I smile and said "I only need one horny woman to keep me happy."

M and I agree to meet at the coffee shop we first seen each other. I bought roses and brought gifts and stand outside under a tree waiting for her. A 10-12 yo gypsy girl come begging for money but I wave her off. I recognize her from my previous trips and she works the sidewalks full time. She's smart and knowing I got flowers, gifts and I must be on my best behavior. She gets on her knees and holds my leg pleading for me to help. I gave her a few grivna to get rid of her. Minutes later an older woman comes begging, probably her mom, and I give some grivna to get rid of her, then comes a small boy about 7 years old begging and I roll my eyes and I turn and look at a few teenage Ukrainian boys sitting on a bench watching all this and they were smiling. They knew what's going on. I'm getting worked over by the whole gypsy family. I toss a small coin in the boy's cup. I didn't understand what he said after my donation but he wasn't happy. Tired of listening to his complaints I walk off and stand elsewhere while waiting for M.

I meet M and we order drinks. She get the same drink as I but orders different food. One thing I do with all my first dates is try to figure out some body language and if they are somewhat physically attracted to me. If the woman orders a different drink, I would offer her a sip of my drink. Almost all RW I've gone out with accepts my offer and then offers me a taste of their drink. If she orders different food, I would offer her a taste of my food and most of the time she would accept and offer me a taste of hers, usually feeding me with her fork. If a RW isn't going to let you put your lips and tongue on her fork or glass, she's probably not thrilled about letting you put your lips or tongue on her body at any time in the near future.

The positive body language with M is there. She likes me and feeds me with her own fork throughout the meal.

[Faux Pas]

Hey Billy

Good to see you back on the forum and adding to your thread. Muddy has been banished to the island of lost and unwanted toys.

[Shadow]

BillyB, I have always followed your stoy with interest. However I think that you are making a mistake that might an obstruction in your future.

You say you wish Natalia (and probably any other woman) to come to America not for you, but for herself. This indicates that you feel the woman must be willing as much to live in America as she mustbe willing to marry you.

While I do agree that a woman who is constantly homesick would put a lot of stress on a relationship, even to a breaking point, it would not be wise to seek a woman who has America on her list of priorities.

A true partner will want to be with you, no matter where in the world you are located and will leave the country and surroundings she knows to be with you. Not to be in the land of movies, milk and honey.

[Zmejka]

If a RW isn't going to let you put your lips and tongue on her fork or glass, she's probably not thrilled about letting you put your lips or tongue on her body at any time in the near future

I don't know if you're serious about that, should be your experience, but i think not all women would agree to feed a man from their fork or glass on the first date not because they don't like him but because it's just not in their nature. I'm talking from my own experience and i think i'm not alone here. I think this feature is called "selectiveness" and it's the same that i for example won't feed a dog or a cat from my fork or glass though many people could do so. But it doesn't mean i don't love that dog or a cat. I hope i could express my point clearly.

[Gator]

Billy,

Good to see you at RWD again.  Hope all goes well for you.

I tend to agree with Zmejka.  RW might sooner give you a deep French kiss rather than eat off your fork.  Then there is swine flu!  :hairraising:

[BillyB]

 Muddy has been banished to the island of lost and unwanted toys.

Too bad. I'm going to miss his signature hand picked RW just for me. I was waiting for the time he'd provide me with some marriage minded RW that wore some real clothes!

 I think that you are making a mistake that might an obstruction in your future.

You say you wish Natalia (and probably any other woman) to come to America not for you, but for herself. This indicates that you feel the woman must be willing as much to live in America as she mustbe willing to marry you.

While I do agree that a woman who is constantly homesick would put a lot of stress on a relationship, even to a breaking point, it would not be wise to seek a woman who has America on her list of priorities.

A true partner will want to be with you, no matter where in the world you are located and will leave the country and surroundings she knows to be with you. Not to be in the land of movies, milk and honey.

I could also make a mistake bringing Natalia here and her having an emotional breakdown that does not end. Remember, she was hospitalized right after her visa was approved. I never had to worry about Natalia coming here to America for personal gain. She is not that type of woman. I greatly admire her for that. If she is to move to America, she needs to do it for herself and get over a psychological hurdle. In a way I think she feels guilty and will move to America because it's what I want. She does want me and I could've move to Uzbekistan but I told her a long time ago this is not an option because I got kids I want to be close to.

Another big problem as I mentioned earlier is that because Natalia stalled on picking up the visa at the embassy. For her to pick up the visa now, I would have to provide phone records to prove there was no interuption in our relationship otherwise the visa is void. My phone records would not show that. We would have to start over. Basically I'm not sure I can do this again when I'm not confident she will not have another breakdown. If Natalia can give me the confidence I need, then I may give it a second go around.

I don't know if you're serious about that, should be your experience, but i think not all women would agree to feed a man from their fork or glass on the first date not because they don't like him but because it's just not in their nature. I'm talking from my own experience and i think i'm not alone here. I think this feature is called "selectiveness" and it's the same that i for example won't feed a dog or a cat from my fork or glass though many people could do so. But it doesn't mean i don't love that dog or a cat. I hope i could express my point clearly.

Zmejka, you are right. One reason I used the word "probably" in the sentence you quoted is because there are no guarantees. A woman may not let me drink from her cup but may want a roll in the hay with me after dinner! Just because a woman shares her food with me doesn't mean it will result in a fantastic love affair either!

I do what I do with the food and drink to get a good read on the woman I'm with. Maybe she's reserved or just plain cold. Maybe she's got the hots for me. I wouldn't want a dog licking the glass I'm drinking from. I wouldn't want my best friends drinking from my glass either but it's okay for a woman who I'm attracted to to drink from my glass.


Zmejka, it may be abnormal or even gross to you and other women to share a drink with a man on a first date. Nothing wrong with how you feel but I think you and other women clearly understand that even a fine gentleman of integrity that you are dating would someday like to put his tongue on more places than just your glass. Nothing wrong with that either.

RW might sooner give you a deep French kiss rather than eat off your fork.

   
I WISH but that happening at dinner on a first date is asking too much! I've had great success getting RW to share her glass and eating utensils with me so I'll stick with that program.

[Mars]

A large percentage of the FSUW I ate with on first date readily shared their food with me; sometimes off of a common fork or spoon, sometimes not.

[Mars]

Billy, most of the time your writing is very clear and easy to understand.

However, this particular thread of yours is an exception to your norm.  It is completely confusing in a couple of aspects.

First, it jumps back and forth between your previous gal (Nat) and some ladies you met on more recent trips.

Second, even when you are writing about more recent trips, the flow is very jumbled with just some smattering of unconnected comments about your meetings with some of the women.

Since you are generally a very good writer, could you do us all a favor and pull out all of your comments about your most recent trips and put them into the trip report section and leave this thread for comments on past relationships and Nat?

Thanks much.

[BillyB]

Billy, most of the time your writing is very clear and easy to understand.


 could you do us all a favor and pull out all of your comments about your most recent trips and put them into the trip report section and leave this thread for comments on past relationships and Nat?

Thanks much.

Sorry Mars for the clutter. I will admit my writings in this thread was done during busy times and I didn't put much thought into it on making it more enjoyable to read. I think I even forgot to use spellcheck a few times. I don't want to break up this thread because I don't want to spend too much time to write a full trip report of each of my trips. I do want get to the point of each of my recent trips and talk about current events. I also discovered some things that changed my way of thinking and maybe I can also provide a few tips to help other guys in this endeavor.

As I mentioned in my first post, I never wanted to make this thread about Natalia but recent and current events. People are free to ask me questions pertaining to Natalia and that is part of the reason topics get bounced around. It's better not to think of this thread as being written by an award winning novelist but a discussion of friends sitting at a cafe over coffee.

[BillyB]

 I went out with a couple of local RW this weekend.

I had a first date with a Belarussian woman who's been here 1.7 years. Her ex husband is Russian who she met on the internet. He visited her for two weeks and proposed in Belarus. This type of behavior is not unique to American men I've learn. She divorced him because he would not enroll her in classes to learn English and didn't let her out of the house. She admitted she didn't know how to cook well and has no experience on how to behave as a wife but she asked him for time to learn and adapt. Her husband was never verbally or mentally abusive but he was a different man than he shown her in Belarus. She now lives in an apartment paid by the government and living off government allowance. She doesn't know how to drive, doesn't have a car, doesnt' have any American friends, yet she does not want to go back to Belarus.

I have more to learn about her but I suspect she does not need a man or me to stay in America. I'm sure she's got a free immigration attorney, help from women's groups and got a permanent ticket here already. I was not happy with her choice of restaurants on a first date. It was a place that she alone could not afford to eat at.

The other date I had is with a Russian woman who I've been out with multiple times. She came to America 16 years ago on a tourist visa. Her friend told her to see an immigration attorney which she did and thus she's never returned to Russia. She seems very nice, didn't take me anyplace expensive, and even paid for some dinners and invited me to her home many times. I'm confident she is not insincere and using me. One of my goals in life is to find a woman I can spend my life with in a marriage. I do not think this is one of her goals but like most people she needs some form of companionship in her life. I do not think we will end up in marrying but I'm not going to reject her as a friend either.

With both women I was surprised how easy it is for them to get a free ticket in America although the rules state you must go back home with a tourist visa and if in a marriage you can stay permanently only if you stay married to your husband for a certain amount of years before you divorce unless there is domestic violence involved. I don't believe either one scammed their way here but I can't blame them for utilizing the system we have in place to their benefit.