Contraception in the FSU

[Admin]

I look at this topic a little like the obligation to properly inform and advise a budding teen of the 'birds and the bees.' Consider this as an International Dating 101 Topic - something for us all to learn from, and important to be informed about.

In the course of many years participating on boards such as this, I've read all sorts of accounts and experiences on the topic of contraception - some believable and some not.

Here is what I have found, from my own experiences and from talking with many others.

Abortion as a means of contraception. Unfortunately, there is some significant truth to this. In Soviet times, contraceptive tablets were not produced in the USSR and were expensive to import - whereas the labor of an abortionist cost little or nothing. Economics played a role in the practice of abortion being used as a form of birth control - sadly. There remains some legacy of that practice even today. I know of one young woman (less than 30) who is VERY attractive, has one son, and has had multiple abortions - probably into the double figures now. The practice still persists - though, hopefully, it has begun to abate with other measures available.

Birth control pills are now widely available in the FSU - though still produced elsewhere (Germany IIRC) and relatively expensive. It seems unusual to find women who are 'on the pill,' hence, WM should be aware of this. If you become involved with a woman, however, this is an option which is now readily available for you and your gal to consider.

IUD's. I have met several women who used IUD's - called a "spiral." I do now know the particulars or the efficacy of their devices - only that they seem more common than here in the US.

Diaphrams and Sponges. I have never spoken to a single person who has mentioned the use of diaphrams or sponges as forms of contraception. I assume they are available in the FSU, but are not widely used for some reason.

Contraceptive Creams and Gels. I recall there being a pretty common gel called FarmaTex which is widely available and commonly-used. Again, I would expect the efficacy to be relatively poor as compared to IUD's and the pill - but better than nothing.

Condoms. As in the pre-1950's America, condoms are probably the single most popular form of contraception - with the additional advantage that most will provide some protection against STD's. I have read many reports from men on the boards that a lot of women in the FSU prefer to NOT use condoms - but I think those reports are exaggerations. Remember that these women are generally quite highly-educated, and many are obviously quite concerned with their appearance and overall health. It would be out of character for them to break from that concern and be irresponsible with their health insofar as condom use is concerned.

Responsible Dating. Guys, you need to remember that these women are currently living in economic conditions that are far below what we men from western countries can even begin to appreciate. For a young couple in Ukraine today to afford having a single child, is like a luxury. They are privileged indeed. For a single woman with a child, life can be almost unbearable, and the future for that child is clearly quite bleak.

It would be totally irresponsible for men from the west to be travelling to the FSU and impregnating the women with giving no regard for the ongoing responsibilities of child-rearing.

At a minimum, you MUST give consideration to the possibilities of an unwanted pregnancy, and take steps to insure its avoidance. And that, of course, does not even consider the life-threatening issues of HIV/AIDS and other incurable STD's.

Other comments/experiences about options for contraception are welcome.

Please do NOT allow this to deteriorate into a values debate on the merits (or not) of abortion. The topic is designed to offer a mature exchange on the important issue of preventing unwanted pregnancies in these relations WM are having with FSU women.

- Dan

[MandM]

Great post, Dan.

I would like to add my two cents. A lot of women in FSU use 'biological calendar' contraception, where they calculate 'safe' and 'dangerous' days of their cycle. Not very safe method. Diaphragm or sponge are not well known. And, unfortunately abortion rates are very high. The most busy time for clinics carrying out terminations is autumn; all these women coming back from their holidays with memories of a holiday romance and an unwanted consequences of it.....

[Son of Clyde]

Whatever happened to abstainance before marriage? Does any country preach this?

I think our parents preached it but it was rarely practiced even by many devout Catholics. Probably not even in primarily Catholic countries.

When puberty hits there is little to do to contain those rampant hormones.  

[Admin]

[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:

Whatever happened to abstainance before marriage? Does any country preach this?

I think our parents preached it but it was rarely practiced even by many devout Catholics. Probably not even in primarily Catholic countries.

When puberty hits there is little to do to contain those rampant hormones.

Yeah - I should have mentioned abstinence in a similar vein with abortion.

While I may tell my children that I prefer them to remain abstinent, I feel it would be irresponsible to fail to equip them with the necessary information to allow them to protect themselves.

That is how I see this topic. Rather than proselytize on the merits (or not) of abstinence and/or abortion, I felt it appropriate to encourage an open exchange of options which recognize the realities of what adults are going to do irrespective of the values/morals/principles they may be violating in doing so.

In other words - let's put aside the moral arguments for a time, and focus on the more pragmatic issues of preventing unwanted pregnancies. If your point is that abstinence is one of the legitimate options - I concur. From a pragmatic standpoint, I think we need to look beyond only abstinence.

BTW - if someone is genuinely interested in finding a lady who is a virgin prior to marriage (the ultimate in abstinent behavior), I have met a couple of Ukrainian women in their early-20's claiming to be virgins - and I believed them. On the whole, however, if this is a core value for someone, they probably need to take up their search in a Muslim or Hindu country where those values remain sacred. In any case, this would be a separate topic.

- Dan

[Aleksia]

I agree with Dan. Just to add some.

99% of women in FSU are using pills or IUD's

Never heard about women who are using Diaphrams and Sponges or Contraceptive Creams and Gels.

To buy pills is the easiest way - you do not need the doctor's prescription. Just buy any in the drugstore. So, most of the women prefer this way. Also because it's easy to stop/begin this method.

[Bruno]

My ex-wife have use spiral in Russia....

But our Belgium gynecologue was surprised when she have remove it here... it was a very old model no more used in Western country, only with copper... current modern version have a thin spiral in copper and a some special hormone ( help against extra uterine foetus )

Second problem see by our gynecologue was the size... normally, a radio from the uterus is needed to determinate the needed size... to small, it is not working 100%, too big, it hurt... it seem that when my ex-wife have receive it in russia, they have not care about the size...

A other method used in the early stade of our relation is the use of something called "ovule"... inserted 15 minutes before relation, it full the fagina with some bubble who are a very strong spermicide... these product is so strong, that men can feel fire sensation in the intimate place... we have fast change to condom...

In anycase, take your own condom with you... several of these find on the market in FSU are overdate, who me that the spermicide product ( lubricant on condom ) will not more work...

[BC]

Spiral seems preferrable over pills if the higher one time cost is tolerable.

Condom? what's that abbreviation for apartment??

[Jet]

Whatever happened to abstainance before marriage?  

BTW - if someone is genuinely interested in finding a lady who is a virgin prior to marriage (the ultimate in abstinent behavior), I have met a couple of Ukrainian women in their early-20's claiming to be virgins - and I believed them. [/quote]
 

Not to continue heading off topic, but to try to put the topic to rest:

The wife and I have discussed this at some length and the insight she gave was that up until a woman's early 20s abstinence before marriage is taken very seriously as far as intercourse goes. This is not to say that they totally refrain from any sexual behaviour, but they find other ways to satisfy those urges. Her contention is that this is why an exponentially larger crossection of FSU women genuinely enjoy oral pleasures (given as much as recieved) than women from the US and western europe.

[Jet]

Condom? what's that abbreviation for apartment??

 

Last I heard it was slang name for cops

[BC]

Jet,

Maybe this is why when we had our (more or less serious) age difference discussion before getting married we agreed that the deciding point would be reached when my tongue gave out...

[Dan, feel free to delete.. I'm in a wierd mood tonite]

[Albert]

Sorry Dan, but I know from my own experience that FSU women DO object to my using condom.  I was quite surprised at this attitude at first, but now have come to expect it.  It is hard for me to understand the reason for this given that it implies some ignorance on the part of the women regarding STDs.

It is a  touchy subject, because if you have to start explaining to the woman about STDs then they will become incensed that you are suggesting that they have some sort of STDs.  They seem to not comprehend that it is just as much for their benefit as for mine.

Of course many of these women are using birth control, so they say there is no need for condoms.

They would really get peeed if I told them I had vasectomy, so I don't tell that.

Regarding the pill, I have had several of them tell me that the pill will lead to an increase in weight.  Not sure of the truth of this.

Also, the use of pills is subject to the same concerns that FSU people have that westerners take too many medicines compared to FSU people.  I arrive for my trips with a small suitcase full of various prescription (Lipitor, Cipro, etc.) and non-prescription drugs (anti-histimines, decongestants, etc.) .  This freaks them out, so I try to keep this cache under wraps.

Quite funny that after ridiculing my drug stash, they then ask what I have when we are on trips to Turkey, etc., and they have constipation problems or the opposite, upset stomachs, etc.

Back to the birth control pills, one thing that is pretty neat with them that the FSU gals do no seem to know is that the pills can be used to 'move' the dates of their monthly periods.  i.e. The periods will not start while taking the pill.  So if they plan a get together with you during a time the period is due, they can just skip the placebo pills and take the active ones for an extra week or so until the visit is finished.  Then, when they stop the pill, the period will start within a couple of days.  When I explained this to a few of them, they thought it was greatest idea and readily adopted this plan.

[Albert]

M and M.  Do you know what they call people who practice the cycle method of birth control?

Answer:  Parents.

[Albert]

Told to me by FSU woman.

Igor says to wife Natasha:  Natasha, you should talk to our daughter Sveta about sex.

Natasha:  What should I say to her?

Igor: Oh you know . . . the birds and bees and such.

Natasha to daughter Sveta:  Sveta, you know when you have sex with your boyfriend Sergei?

Sveta:  Yes.

Natasha:  Birds and bees have sex also.

[Admin]

Sorry Dan, but I know from my own experience that FSU women DO object to my using condom. I was quite surprised at this attitude at first, but now have come to expect it. It is hard for me to understand the reason for this given that it implies some ignorance on the part of the women regarding STDs.

It is a touchy subject, because if you have to start explaining to the woman about STDs then they will become incensed that you are suggesting that they have some sort of STDs. They seem to not comprehend that it is just as much for their benefit as for mine.

Not to mention the fact that you are literally making life-or-death decisions by agreeing to have unprotected sex with them - thereby risking your life (or health) and the lives (or health) of those whom you have later unprotected sex with.

I don't mean to be puritanical here - only pragmatic.

I wonder if there is an age segmentation in terms of condom acceptance. For instance, do you suppose it is possible that women in their 20's would be more educated about birth control AND more aware of the consequences of single parent households, hence, they might be more inclined to accept and/or encourage use of condoms? Whereas maybe women from a slightly older generation pool grew up without the information/urging to form a priority on protection? Just a thought.

- Dan

[BC]

I wonder if there is an age segmentation in terms of condom acceptance. For instance, do you suppose it is possible that women in their 20's would be more educated about birth control AND more aware of the consequences of single parent households, hence, they might be more inclined to accept and/or encourage use of condoms? Whereas maybe women from a slightly older generation pool grew up without the information/urging to form a priority on protection? Just a thought.

- Dan

I doubt it. The consequences of a single parent household is an easy choice since very little stigma is associated with abortion.  Condom use is probably more accepted by adult industry professionals than the general public where completely unhindered sex seems to be viewed as being healthier.

-all fwiw..and based on a very small sample.

[Bruno]

I wonder if there is an age segmentation in terms of condom acceptance.

In some way, YES... from my personal experience, the situation in FSU is the reverse of these in Europa...

In FSU, young women don't like the use of comdom... somme have say me that they don't like "eat meat with plastic"... they don't really realise the problem of aids... they say that they are healthy so it is not problem... several don't know that 6 month is needed between the first infection and the detection of the first anticorps...

Usualy, older FSU woman accept the use of condom... not because of a better knowledge of possible diseasse but more for the birth control... and in some case, they enjoy the special one model like these "glow in the dark", the "exotic fruit flavored" one... and i don't speak about the stimulating one

I am very surprised about these open discussion over "sexuality" on a "American" forum... i find sometime FSU woman not so much open minded over sexuality but in the case of US, several are really closed mind... and i find these closed mind really a big problem, specially about education... i have see the statistic over adolescent who are pregnant in US... not far from the African level ...

Previously, in FSU, sexuality was not really a taboo... but with the new power of church, think are changing... the young one seem not so much good educated that the older one...

PS : it is my own meaning based on my own experience... i have not "test" enough FSU woman for make a rule of this...

 

[Albert]

Bruno and others.  My experience with FSU women is restricted to those over 35 years of age.  It is these women who have objected to my use of condom.

I usually have to end up explaining to them that if they had sex with only two guys and each of those two guys had sex with only two women, each of whom in turn had sex with two guys, ad infinitum, then to have sex with one person is to have sex with thousands or millions of people.

Then they say something like:   here in Russia/Ukraine we get blood tests with our regular medical checkups.  Then I have to note to them that (1) the blood tests only tell about what happened before the blood tests, not what has happened since last blood test, (2) that some problems do not show up in blood tests for several months or years, (3) that they might not really be getting the actual tests, only a faked report, (4) that the tests themselves may be faulty, etc., etc., etc.

But, of course, once we have to get this far into the discussion . . . the desire for sex has disappeared.

 

[Bruno]

But, of course, once we have to get this far into the discussion . . . the desire for sex has disappeared. 

Like i say before... problem of education... of puritanism...

Here in Europe, we are not specialy sex maniac but sex is not some kind of taboo... it is something really normal between two people... course of sexual education are starded very early, at the 5-6 grade of the basic school ( 11-12 year old )... and certainly not with story of bee and flower

But in all case, it is not a problem of school but more a problem of parents... a lot of parents fear to speak about sexuality and the risk with own children... hidding a problem don't resolve it :cool:

[Michelangelo]

My experiences are like those of Alberts.

I always take condoms, but 9 out of 10 times the girl does not want to use them and we use nothing. (Note--I speak of girls who I have known in advance through letters and usually have sex about the third date.  The only girl who allowed me to use a condom had sex with me on the first date and it was a blind date from an agency)

Several girls on trips with me have told me they simply take an abortion type pill afterwards, but hate it becasue it makes them ill.

It casts a shadow on FSU dating given the problems of unsafe sex, but it's the truth based upon what has happened to me and I think men on their first trip need to know this information...

And dispite best intentions, it's easy to put aside the condom in the heat of the moment.

But it's not wise...

[Ste]

The best form of contraception without doubt is to give her a false name and address.

Nadia thinks my name is 'jb' and I'm from Corpus Christi, Texas..........

jb

[andrewfi]

Women in the FSU seem to have a fairly adult approach toward contraception. It is a joint responsibility and thus, if a woman chooses not to use a condom, then it is her responsibility to deal with the consequences.

Abortion is still very common as contraception with about 60 abortions per 100 known pregnancies. There is opposition, both medical and public to hormone based contraception and it could well be with good reason, but that is an issue for another place...

Use of condoms for health reasons is really the major purpose for condom use and here, again, pragmatism rules. HIV is well known to people hereabouts, but also they know that even though rates in some places are high, the risk of an ordinary, non-injecting woman contracting HIV from a heterosexual man who does not use injected drugs is vanishingly small, especially if from the same social circle. The fear culture that has been built up over the past 30 years in the US and much of Europe does not exist.

I have not checked all the stats, but my assumption, based upon experience and abortion rates is that as a form of contraception abortion is probably still more common than any other form, with condoms following behind and hormone based products and mechanical devices at the rear. (average woman in Russia had about 2.5 abortions during her reproductive years i the late 1990's)

For myself, I always offer to use a condom but do not always end up doing so. When with a woman of unknown background (which is pretty rare when one lives here and has a social circle), I do not ask but assume that I will use.

[acrzybear]

The best form of contraception without doubt is to give her a false name and address.

Nadia thinks my name is 'jb' and I'm from Corpus Christi, Texas..........

jb

JB

So that's what you look like without the beard and all the silver gone from your hair!!!:shock:

[Todd]

I'm not sure if this is useful information, but here are a few bits of general bc information and observation:

1.  Blood tests for AIDS:  Initial tests in the US in the 90's-pre 2002 were NOT based on PCR.  I believe that everyone in the US now uses PCR based blood tests.  (Polymerase Chain Reaction)  PCR essentially eliminates the 6 month lag from exposure to testing positive.  Theoretically, a blood test with PCR a week after HIV exposure should give a positive test for HIV.  I'm not at all certain about what is presently being used in the FSU.

2.  Birth control pills ARE widely available and used among single 20 somethings in the FSU.  In general, if someone finds a pill that works well for them, they should stick with it.  A change in RX could create a great deal more problems than anticipated.  Side-effects CAN include weight gain among other things, also mood changes, and irregular menses.

[andrewfi]

I don't think anyone suggested that contraceptive pills were not widely available, but as to usage, have a look at this:

http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/7254-20.cfm

Essentially, '...according to data from the deputy health minister, Olga Sharapova, the number of Russians using birth control has almost doubled in the last decade. Now 7.8 percent of women of childbearing age use contraceptive pills, and 16.3 percent use sponges.'

That was in 2003.

IME, but not in Russia, sponges are more commonly used by Russian women in order to make sex whilst menstruating a less messy affair than they are for contraception.

It is not likely that you will see, anywhere in the FSU, concerted advocation of contraception - little in the way of outreach or school level education. Most of the countriews of the FSU are suffering with low birthrates. We are more likely see, as in Estonia, programmes that pay mothers to have children. Such a programme is under consideration in Russia now. The country needs kids and the conflicting interests of repopulation and education about contraception will leave an obvious loser.

[Admin]

It is not likely that you will see, anywhere in the FSU, concerted advocation of contraception - little in the way of outreach or school level education. Most of the countriews of the FSU are suffering with low birthrates. We are more likely see, as in Estonia, programmes that pay mothers to have children. Such a programme is under consideration in Russia now. The country needs kids and the conflicting interests of repopulation and education about contraception will leave an obvious loser.

You raise a VERY interesting point - and that is, with Russia and Ukraine both suffering negative population growth - what steps will government take to reverse the trend? Left without intervention, both economies could collapse under their own weight in a few decades.

I hadn't considered the prospect that the government might subsidize childbirth - but there may be some logic to doing exactly that.

- Dan