Hello All...

[bigdeg]

 Hope everyone is doing great! I used to lurk around here and read some good information way back when this was called Russian Women Guide. That was a few years ago. Since then have traveled some more in the orient (mostly Singapore and Indonesia). Alot of that time I have spent devoted to my job....or changing employers as such.
 That brings me to my problem, what do you say to a RW/UW about being a union member. I do not know how to explain the concept of negotiating wages.

[Simoni]

Yes, unions are common in Ukraine.  Organizations that protect workers are what they are, and they have labor day (May 1) to celebrate workers.

[Simoni]

Oh, I forgot to say
WELCOME TO RWD!!!

~Simoni

[bigdeg]

thanks for the info about unions! Carry-on All!

Yes, unions are common in Ukraine.  Organizations that protect workers are what they are, and they have labor day (May 1) to celebrate workers.

Thanks Simoni!!!

[acrzybear]

If it came up I would just tell her that you are part of an organization that helps workers get better wages and benefits and therefore better lives.

[Taz]

If it came up I would just tell her that you are part of an organization that helps workers get better wages and benefits and therefore better lives.

And I'd add quite often corrupt and don't worry about their members enough so the only people that get the better wages are the union bosses (IMHO). Been there, done that, got the "I've been screwed by my union contract t-shirt" but I digress.

Welcome to the forum! The concept of a union is not foreign to them as in some ways a collective is like a union. Next to impossible to get fired from a collective, same goes for a union job. The person at the top, gets most of the rewards... same as a union. The little folks are the pawns... same as a union. I could go on with the comparisons.

She'll likely be more interested in the type of work you do rather than what group memberships you have. Unless of course it is something bizarre. So I'd say being a union member isn't a "problem" to RW. Your personal experience will dictate if it is a problem for you.  Hopefully your experience is much better than mine in that area. I got tired of paying dues to not have them used in an effective manner. Spending money on lavish trips for the union bosses. Can't opt out of the union once in, being told who I should vote for, etc. etc.

So just gloss over it. I don't see how it would really come up in most conversations. Just describe what you do for your profession. She'll likely have some question about salary at some point. The concept of benefits is somewhat foreign to most RW so that may take some explaining in the future. Concepts like medical and dental insurance, 401k plans, etc.

[GQBlues]

That brings me to my problem, what do you say to a RW/UW about being a union member. I do not know how to explain the concept of negotiating wages.

Welcome.

Actually it's fairly easy to explain. Just tell her it's like the Russian Mafia, except in the US it (they) can actually determine the presidential election.

[Gator]

Welcome Bigdeg!

So you were around when RWG was a happening place.  Actually, RWD was never part of RWG.  RWD was started as a separate, independent forum.  Upon RWD's start, RWG declined in proportion to RWG's ascent to the top.

Having participated in both forums, it is my guess that RWD today is bigger than RWD at its peak.

Do you plan to meet some RW this year?  If so, what approach are you using to search for some lovely ladies?

[Simoni]

And I think the sale of RWG to an agency had a lot to do with it's decline...

[Dave13]

Welcome Bigdeg to RWD, My wife's Grandmother was a teacher in Russia and she was in a union. I've been a strong union activists for over 20 years and my experiences are totally different from Taz.

Dave

[Tamara]

That brings me to my problem, what do you say to a RW/UW about being a union member. I do not know how to explain the concept of negotiating wages.

The concept of Unions should be familiar to a RW/UW as unions is something like a Soviet legacy to many organizations. The mining and air transport industries as well as the state sector are highly unionized.  However, the major differences are in union's operations here and in Russia.  So simply explain the way it is.

The concept of benefits is somewhat foreign to most RW so that may take some explaining in the future. Concepts like medical and dental insurance, 401k plans, etc.

Taz, I need to disagree with you. It is not the concept RW/UW are not familiar with, it's the terminology used in US. For example, instead of 401k just say it is a retirement plan and explain how the system works. It certainly works differently, but the concept is easy to understand and is not completely foreign.  There are jobs with and without benefits in Russia, with or without medical or dental insurance, retirement plan, etc. Despite the fact that technically public health services are free, one needs to pay for quality medical services and many get special insurances from work. Some jobs hire according to Labor Code of the Russian Federation while others do not, which means that there are no benefits. When job hunting any Russian will be checking if the job offers any benefits.

Welcome Bigdeg to RWD, My wife's Grandmother was a teacher in Russia and she was in a union.

All the teachers in Russia have to be part of the Union. I used to be one.   And hardly saw any benefits other than paying fees.  :noidea:

[bigdeg]

Thank you all,
 Gator...Yes I have already informed my union hall that I want 3 weeks off in Oct. but it may happen a few weeks later because we will be busy, But I have the "first available slot". I am taking a mixed approach, there is one lady that I am going to see in Mariupol, but will just show up in the city and meet some girls on my own first. It can't be any harder than mainland China was. I'll see her the second week, then the third is open.
 Dave...nobody tells me who to vote for. Though I agree they try.
 Does anyone know what a millwright is??? Probably not, there is very few of us in the U.S.A., more in Canada. Being a small TRADE union has certain advantages.
 All I have told my lady, she has a general idea about what I do, is that we will have our needs met. Oh, and I don't really want her to work, but she wants to. Maybe she will change her mind.
I have good hopes about this lady...but this isn't my first rodeo...
 Thanks to everybody for the warm welcomes!!!

[bigdeg]

 Sorry.. It was Taz that had the bad union experience.

[Taz]

Tamara - my experience so far a single RW has not been familiar with our concept of retirement plans that are typically company sponsored. Not one yet I've spent time with has had health insurance or dental including a woman I dated for many years who was a dentist in Moscow and wasn't even aware of any plans.

Not to say there not out there but unless you are in some of the bigger companies in the FSU, there aren't going to be those types of benefits or experiences. I asked my ex who worked at Nadra Bank. There were no retirement plans or health plans there. Her sister worked for Alfa Bank at a very high level and no benefits such as that either.

Maybe if you go to company that has a branch there from a more Western company such as PWC, Ernst and Young, Deloitte, KPMG, you might have a shot at some of these benefits. I just checked with the company where I work and we offer nothing like that at all in Ukraine or Russia and we are VERY big company in the world.

There is the pension system that is government ran sort of like our social security system but I never encountered a single company sponsored contribution retirement plan. I worked in Moscow at a high level within a very prestigious firm and I never had those benefits either. I was making pretty good money at that time, 35,000 rubles/month. I should had a shot at some of those benefits given my salary.

So we have both government funded and pension plans and private/personal plans. There is a significant difference between the two though. The latter I can live on some day, the former won't even pay my most basic of expenses where I live.

I found that most of my friends paid the doctors even though they had their own governmental health coverage. That is why socialized medicine is terrible for the most part unless you want to pay extremely high taxes. Plus there is no incentive to take better care of yourself. If you live an unhealthy lifestyle, everybody else picks up the price tag for your bad choices rather than you.

I agree that they understand the concept of a pension but there are very important differences between our system in the US and the FSU. Same goes for the medical system. It takes a while to explain the differences as well as the important nuances.

bigdeg- I am familiar with what is a millwright. I came from an aerospace engineering background. I spent my time around quite a few machine shops. I did a lot of CNC work as well as parts on a lathe. I can still can probably weld pretty well too.    I am not dissing your profession, just my experience with unions makes me want to run away. So many of them are as corrupt as the politicians they funnel money to. Clean unions are about as rare as un-corrupt cops in Ukraine. BTW, my experience wasn't limited to just one union or one part of the US but I don't to drift too far OT here.

Enjoy your trip to Mariupol. It has to be the worst city from an ecological perspective I've ever been to save maybe 1 or 2 in China. Keep in mind the possible/likely health effects on any women you might meet there. This is not something to be overlooked and the longer (ie older) they've lived there, the bigger the risk. Enjoy you trip!

[bigdeg]

Hello Taz and everyone on this thread,
 Taz, I agree with you 99% about the unions. I found out the difference between company unions and trade unions. I never had accepted a job with a company that had their own worker union, the trade-off just didnt make sense. A trade union is night-and day different, and I am very glad I jioned. We still have a few little drawbacks. But it is head-and-shoulders above any other blue-collar career.
 The low economic conditions do not give me much pause, but I will keep that in mind. I will look elsewhere on the board for services there. Thanks again all...

[Taz]

Thanks for stopping buy. I hope you'll stick around for a while. Lot of interesting stuff to read here. Check out some of the trip reports (aka TR). Definitely some interesting ones. I'd suggest one the myrddin wrote as well as one I wrote about a friend of mine. Take a look in the RWDpedia section and look for triple trip reports. A lot of content in there about Mariupol but not at the beginning of mine. My TR was more about WHAT NOT TO DO as seen through my eyes as I watched a friend make mistake after mistake.

Get a few more miles under your belt and post your own TR in our section of the forum here:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?board=6.0

The RWDpedia is found here:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/mwiki/

[dokrog]

Hi Bigdeg and welcome aboard, ( i think i'm supposed to say that now that i've posted a  half dozen times or more *grins*)

Taz! You are an incorigible you know that don't you? I laughed my ass off on your posts. You should go to st pete and talk to the union members there. too funny. A lot of truth to what you say having been a member of 2 of the largest unions in america in my younger years. Damn I miss the bar in the mens locker room. shi* (ahhh. can we swear as long as we put an asterik in there somewhere?).

Personally Bigdeg I wouldn't even bring up the whole union thing with any lady you meet in Russia or the Ukraine (disclaimer* I know almost nothing of ukraine other than I've spent 2 whole days there). I honestly don't think they care one way or the other. All they really want to know is if you can support them when you bring them over to the good ol usa or if your going to immediately make them start working to support the 2 of you. Most if not all want to get to know the U.S. before they get a job. You need to make getting a job exciting. ie., making new friends, something to do, etc.

I would just have fun with your lady and tell her "no worries".

[Tamara]

Taz,

I appreciate your detailed response to my post and it was definetely interesting to see your point of view.  Like some of your friends, I also worked at a Bank, called Menatep Bank as well as for Russian government and international corporations, such as Siemens and Fluor in their offices in Russia.  

I do encourage you to do more research and learn about "Добровольное медицинское страхование"/VHI/Voluntary Health Insurance, which is common and constantly growing in Russia. For example, one of my friends worked for BeeLine, telecommunications company, as a salesperson. It is in no way a high level job. They were offering VHI to all of the employees of the branch, so she was able to do all of the dental work in a private clinic at the expense of her VHI.
  
Companies providing VHI for their employees have additional tax benefits in the amount of 3% from gross payroll.  According to the latest data of the Center of Analytical Research of recruitment company Ancor, more than 50% (52%-64%) of Russian companies include VHI as part of the benefit package. At the moment most of them are big companies and corporations. Please keep in mind, that VHI has many packages, some are minimum while others even include fitness clubs as part of the program.

Here are a couple companies offering VHI to their employees, I am also going to mark the city where they are located to show that we do not only speak about Moscow or Saint Petersburg: AvtoVAZ (Tolyatti), Uralhimmash (Ekaterinburg), Daltransugol (Khabarovsk), Tehnostroyeksport (Moscow), Donenrgo (Rostov on Don), Rosmorport (Murmansk) and many others. There are too many to list here.  Please note that these companies are not "western branches".

I am not sure if you know any Russian. If you do, I would love to send you some links on the subject, but I was even able to locate a little bit in English: http://www.ingosstrax.ru/en/news/releases/printable.php?print=1&id4=3644, which states: "The Branch of Ingosstrakh IJSC in Khabarovsk won a tender for the right to provide voluntary medical insurance (VMI) to employees of OOO Daltransugol for 2008. The insurance amount totals RUB 130’290’000. Ingosstrakh insured 101 employees of ООО Daltransugol under the VMI package programs. The program covers polyclinic, dental services and planned and emergency hospitalization in Khabarovsk medical facilities, Vanino and Sovetskaya Gavan.  The insured amount per one person totals RUB 1’290’000."

I hope this does show you that there is additional medical insurance provided by employers to supplement Compulsory Health Insurance offered to all Russian citizens.

In my initial post I also talked about Labor Code: "Some jobs hire according to Labor Code of the Russian Federation while others do not, which means that there are no benefits." I tried to show that some people work and get money "under the table", while officially they are listed either unemployed or working part-time only, which means that they do not acquire "length of service"/выслуга, which is so important for a decent pension in Russia. It also makes it next to impossible to get a mortgage under these conditions. So not being hired under the Labor Code gives them no benefits at all, whether they are mandatory or corporate.

There is a special retirement plan as well. If one applies and decides to make pension contributions (not the mandatory ones), the government will sponsor additional 100%. Isn't the concept similar?! It's not the government in the US, but in addition to contribution person makes, the company or in our case government, adds to the contribution. Here is the name of the law for you to research: О ДОПОЛНИТЕЛЬНЫХ СТРАХОВЫХ ВЗНОСАХ НА НАКОПИТЕЛЬНУЮ ЧАСТЬ ТРУДОВОЙ ПЕНСИИ И ГОСУДАРСТВЕННОЙ ПОДДЕРЖКЕ ФОРМИРОВАНИЯ ПЕНСИОННЫХ НАКОПЛЕНИЙ There are many rules and some are similar to the US, I won't go into details here, but for those interested the program does exist.

[UTRO]

Sveta has a decent Health Insurance plan with MTS. This includes Dental, Physio, Massage and various other Therapies. However, like here in the West, there has recently been a clawback on Benefits. 
Company Pensions are very rare and only a handful of companies offer them.

[Tamara]

Sveta has a decent Health Insurance plan with MTS. This includes Dental, Physio, Massage and various other Therapies. However, like here in the West, there has recently been a clawback on Benefits. 
Company Pensions are very rare and only a handful of companies offer them.

Thank you for sharing about Sveta.  She is another example of an FSU lady who actually knows and has Health Insurance Plan / VHI, so for her the concept of US Health Insurance won't be completely foreign. 
As everywhere in the world, crisis takes its toll, which is normal. It will improve with time.
To see that I am not the only one on the forum who knows about the existence of benefit packages in Russia is very nice. 

[Taz]

My point is not to say these plans don't exist. It is easy to think of Russia as being the entire FSU as well and it isn't. While some things have advanced more in Russia, they may be definitely lagging behind in other FSU countries such as Ukraine, Belarus, etc. Even then I don't think it is that common place as of yet. Time can/will change but only if there is a reason too. With the current economic crisis afflicting most of the world, the advance of any of these types of benefits is likely to be slowed if not outright stopped.

If I had to take a guess, most of any of these companies that offer these types of benefits will be in the larger cities and in the more important market sectors. Not to say that you can't find people familiar with them but I still maintain it is rarer than Tamara proposes. I respect her opinion but my experience differs from hers. My experience in the last 2 years is centered more in Ukraine than Russia though I did work in Russia and the last 2 major companies I worked for had a large/prominent Russian and Ukrainian presence.

So what I can surmise from this is don't assume your woman knows anything about these things but don't be overly surprised if she does. 

[Tamara]

Taz,

Let's look at your initial post to make it clear:

"The concept of benefits is somewhat foreign to most RW so that may take some explaining in the future. Concepts like medical and dental insurance, 401k plans, etc."

followed by

Tamara - my experience so far a single RW has not been familiar with our concept of retirement plans that are typically company sponsored. Not one yet I've spent time with has had health insurance or dental including a woman I dated for many years who was a dentist in Moscow and wasn't even aware of any plans.

In both of them you are addressing RUSSIAN WOMEN in particular.

Not to say that you can't find people familiar with them but I still maintain it is rarer than Tamara proposes.

First of all, I do not propose anything. I have found some statistical information and posted it along with the reference. My post is based not only on personal experience, but some research as well. It's funny to see you can't locate any people familiar with VHI, which only speaks to your personal experience. I am familiar with it, my friends have it and even Utrobina made a post saying Svetlana has it from MTS. So by only one post of yours you found two people familiar with it.

My point is not to say these plans don't exist. It is easy to think of Russia as being the entire FSU as well and it isn't. While some things have advanced more in Russia, they may be definitely lagging behind in other FSU countries such as Ukraine, Belarus, etc.

I agree that Russia is not the entire FSU, but I always encourage everybody to look at each particular country separately. They all have their own culture, traditions as well as standard of life.  I was providing an insight to the country I am from, work very closely with and visit at least 3-4 times a year.

So what I can surmise from this is don't assume your woman knows anything about these things but don't be overly surprised if she does. 

So I would summarize it this way: Try not to make assumptions and set expectations, but rather ask about what it is woman knows, learn about her experience and based on it explain the concept you want her to understand. You'll be surprised to see how well it works.   

[Taz]

I'll be concise as I don't have much time. My experience is not limited to just RW. I have numerous RM and UM friends. However since this website is about discussing RW, that is why I phrased it that way. I contacted as a follow-up several friends working in Kyiv and they don't have it. I spoke to some friends in Moscow and some had and some don't. I spoke to friends in Tomsk and they don't have it. Some were somewhat familiar with it some and not at all.

I'd be interesting in seeing the statistics about this regarding the adoption rate in both Russian and Ukraine. Russia has about 140mil people and even if 10mil knew actually had these sort of plans, I'd be incredibly surprised. Plans meaning very similar to what we have in the US such as employer sponsored health/retirement.

I'd say I don't travel infrequently to Russia either. Typically 4 or more times a year and typically stay 2-3 weeks at a time. I try to go to different places each time but of course I have my favorites. I'll just say Moscow isn't one of them. 

We are all shaped by our experiences and where we travel. I have always encouraged people not to look at the FSU countries as separate entities even if they are somewhat similar. Just like Canada and the US are neighbors and pretty much share a common language but have a totally different "feel" to them.

This entire OT part of the thread brings up an question that most Americans should ask themselves, why in heck would you want socialized medicine? If socialized medicine (governmental sponsored/managed/operated health plans) have failed so miserably in Russia that they need to offer private health insurance, why in heck would you want to adopt the model in the US that has failed. If it worked so wonderfully why would Russian employers even offer it???

Anyway I've always encouraged people to do independent research. If you don't have any expectations at all, why do anything? So unless I set some expectation for myself, my career, my future, etc., I am less likely to be motivated to accomplish anything in life. By setting high expectations in these areas I have worked to become a better person. I set high expectations for my trips as well and do the necessary planning to help ensure the odds of success being high. As far as assumptions, they aren't necessarily bad. Assumptions based on appropriate data can be useful and are done all the time in business, the military, life, etc. There was an interesting guide written in many languages (including Russian) that helped people understand these  aspects (health care, pensions, banking, etc.) of US life in great detail. It was named with something in the title such as "... for immigrants and refugees". I don't remember the rest nor have time to look it up now. It is a little out of date but still useful. I might still have a copy somewhere.

[Sculpto]

Taz, a while back I was searching Russian "help wanted" sites for my own edification and keeping an eye out for my girl.. plus if anything in the Kitchen and Bath or even woodworking industries appeared I sent out some resumes.  Anyway, many of the jobs advertised were offering health insurance and some were offering pension plans.  I was pretty surprised to see that as I had been under the assumption that such benefits did not exist.  The higher up the food chain the more benefits were being offered all the way up to luxury apartments and cars with drivers for top level positions.  Three hours of research and that is what I learned.

[dokrog]

Taz, I'm not sure who actually considers moscow their favorite place to be unless it's budding entrepreneurs and young girls.

My wife and I contribute to a few adoption agencies here and there. We used to do more but have cut back some. At one agency they had twin girls, blonde headed and about 4 waiting to be adopted. We inquired and were told 60K to adopt them. I fear it's quite the racket over there unfortunately.

Last year my son got sick he was almost 2. Developed a red rash over his body, diarrea and fever around 102-3. We took him to the dr and he had some kind of fungal virus or something. had to put him on western antibiotics and a skin cream. total of 3 visits with followup and the price tag including meds was around 200 usd.

We also got my daughter a pair of glasses as she had been needing one. Really nice ones. total cost including eye exam etc was around 100 usd.