So why do we continue to come here and hangout?

[Faux Pas]

I believe any newbie who follows advice given on this forum is doomed to fail.

I believe a person who uses this forum to gain insight into the differences in culture and who tries to gain knowledge to use in making his own choices will do well.

HiTech

That would largely depend on what advice they follow. I would say you are correct in that anyone who attempts to follow ALL the advice is doomed to fail. Newbies, like anyone else has to discern what is good for them and what they should leave behind. I would also say that "they" have to make that distinction. The best we can do is put it out there for them.

There is much more good advice on RWD but, there is some bad advice as well. No matter who or how long they worked at it, there is no way we'd all agree on which is which. But let's face it, no matter how much good advice one gets they have failure rates as well.

I am not yet married but, I have some pretty extensive travel time and on the ground in Russia. That is the limit of advice I tend to offer. Personally, I tend to think if we all were to stick with what "we" know from experience and post that information, the good information available here would be a few levels above what we have now. Some post incessantly about experiences they read or heard about but in actuality, they know nothing.

As for the first question, RWD was very helpful for me when I started. Without getting to all the warm and fuzzy details I became attached somewhat, enjoy helping others and enjoy the camaraderie that we have in this particular online community. I do expect in a short time my contributions will diminish or disappear. I know a couple will be glad of that. 

[GQBlues]

I believe any newbie who follows advice given on this forum is doomed to fail.

I believe a person who uses this forum to gain insight into the differences in culture and who tries to gain knowledge to use in making his own choices will do well.

I'll second this...and add, travel information is also generally very helpful. Beyond that, and more on the individual's personal affairs, I think that's where it can get sketchy.

If a person had to be taught on how, when, where to relate to a woman, he'd be better serve staying home. It's one thing to fail because a person ignored his instincts and went head-long into a relationship he shoudn't have. It's quite another to fail despite his instincts and went head-long into a relationship because of bad advice.

As for the cultural differences, that's a guarded situation for me. There's a fine line where overrating these differences start to be counter-productive. JMO.

[Gator]

I'm just happy that we dont have to wade through every single thought that popped into that womans head.

So am I; otherwise she would get under my skin. 

The beauty of an Internet forum is being able to scan and ignore at will.  One does not even have to say, "Pardon me."

Perhaps some people get too serious about this, assuming that an irritant (e. g., Helen) is riding in a car with you and won't shut up.  :hairraising:

[Sculpto]

I believe any newbie who follows advice given on this forum is doomed to fail.

I believe a person who uses this forum to gain insight into the differences in culture and who tries to gain knowledge to use in making his own choices will do well.

HiTech

 

[I/O]

Why do people hang out here. I recall getting under jinx's skin (go figure) early on when I suggested, most want to be heard and a few want to hear. It is interesting to me, the more experience posters gain in this pursuit, the more the seem to want to hear and the less they seem to want to be heard. Just and observation.

I/O

[BillyB]

For me, I like to think that I might be helping someone who is starting this endeavor.

Same for me and if I learn something new, that's a bonus. Many of us have help steer men towards making a better choice in a FSU woman by giving tips on what to look for and what to look out for. We've also saved men countless thousands of dollars by enlightening them on scammers. Of course not everybody is going to listen. We can't stop the insanity entirely but we can slow it down.

[Daveman]

...  Of course not everybody is going to listen. We can't stop the insanity entirely but we can slow it down.

And related to that is this -- most of the individual guys receiving the advice will not listen. They are already wrapped up deep inside some impenetrable world of fantasy and cannot be reached by any means.  They are here to have their fantasy reinforced, or squawk at anything which shows there could be a problem.  The benefit of going through that sometimes ridiculous process is (un)seen through the guests and newbies who read the interactions. They are not emotionally attached to that fantasy world so the logic tends to take root and nudge them in a more common sense, logical direction.  That's my take on it anyway.

 

[bobb]

Personally, I tend to think if we all were to stick with what "we" know from experience and post that information, the good information available here would be a few levels above what we have now.

Ahh...wouldn't that be nice.

[Chillidog]

in answer to the OP's question --- "Why do I come/hangout here?"

I do more hanging-out then posting here, the reason is even though I have been "around the block" a few times already, I feel I know NOTHING and I feel I will NEVER know ALL.  So in a sense I view myself as a "newbie" and I ALWAYS will. Even if I marry an FSU women and stay married to her for 5-10 years or HOPEFULLY until we both have seen the end of our days. I feel there is always something that can and should be learned every day, and I would be the biggest fool to think that I know everything.

I think this forum does have some very knowledgeable and repsected members both men and FSU woman who give very good advice and are here not for their benefit but sincerely are wanting to see any and all members of RWD succeed.

The beggining discussions in this OP (about meeting the woman's parents by the second meeting) bring to mind another forum where it is widely discussed and held as "GOSSPEL" that if you do not have sex by day 5 that the woman is "NOT INTO" and on both of these advices at least for me, I can not look at them as "set in a tablet of stone " but as each individual each relationship is unique and try to sift thru all of the good advice and use it as it pertains to me and to my relationship, so that I CAN avoid some of the pitfuls some of the hardships that others have experienced.

In doing this, sifting thru advice and using what I feel is best for me, I may unitentionally end up stepping on some other "land mine" but this is life, each person's experience is their own and unique
 
to end and summarize; To read/learn of each individuals experiences (and I applaud all who give insites to thier lives or post TR!) and to get advice and help (whether I follow this advice/help or not) from those on this forum who I feel give "sage advise" even though I have never met but respect them none the less. I look at this advice/wisdom similar to that of my father's (a man who is a hero of mine and their is no one I respect more)

these men I/O, Gator, Simoni, GOB, ScottinCrimea, Kuna and others plus the women Anastasia, Blues Fairy, JazzyClassy, Lily give so much to this forum! It is at times a shame that for advice to be given it must be reduced to the "lowest common denominator" that their advice will at times get lost in the message

and I also "hangout" because I am so hungry to learn more about the culture, the people, the life. I can only think of 2 places to learn --- the BEST place RUSSIA and the second best from those who have EXPERIENCE

for all "kick me in the *ss" when you see fit and please understand that if I do not follow your advice I am not "just p*ssing in the wind" but as a man I must also make decisions for my own life, but your wisdom does not fall on deaf ears, and in fact you may not see it as such, but you HAVE in fact helped me a GREAT deal!

[kievstar]

I hang out here because I have nothing better to do at work.  I find the people here interesting and like the different view points. I also tend to run into several members here in Ukraine airports, dating agencies, etc.  I have flown over 85 times to Kiev past 4 years.  Know dozens of girls who work in agencies or are translators.  So anything dealing with Ukraine / Russia is interesting to me. 

[Daveman]

for all "kick me in the *ss" when you see fit and please understand that if I do not follow your advice I am not "just p*ssing in the wind" but as a man I must also make decisions for my own life, but your wisdom does not fall on deaf ears, and in fact you may not see it as such, but you HAVE in fact helped me a GREAT deal!

You STUBBORN Muleheaded Warthog! I can't believe you'd want to make your own decisions...   

And yeah, sex by the fifth day is written in latex... heh... though I would definitely think that if one is not at least holding hands, kissing, etc. within that time frame or pretty darn close on a VO trip, there's probably something amiss (I recall one train wreck style situation from a few years ago, which actually occurred prior to my arrival to the forum, who, if I followed everything correctly, actually brought the woman over on a K-1 without so much as a kiss... admitted she was pretty much indifferent, and then defended that with some off the wall logic which was truly unfathomable...after she split back home..   :noidea: )

Anyway CD, looking forward to hearing more of your story. I know we shared similar situation in the past, and some of your comments helped me out. 

[SANDRO43]

"So why do we continue to come here and hangout?"

Years ago they closed down our only city Zoo .

P.S.: I found a photo of the sadly looking pool, empty of water and its performing seals prior to demolition .

[Simoni]

"So why do we continue to come here and hangout?"

Years ago they closed down our only city Zoo .

Best answer yet! LOL

[JR]

Why do I keep coming here? Frankly: because I know everything and you all must be taught like the simpletons you are


I come here for one reason and one reason only. To remain grounded. I did not listen to the warnings I and my friends gave me prior to marrying my ex. I will not make that mistake again. If I cannot see something myself I'll throw it out in front of others and ask/listen to what they have to say. Sometimes it's easier to listen to the advice of a stranger than it is to a friend's...

[kryten41]

Now I'd like to pose another question if I may and I'll try to not ruffle too many feathers. How much should a newbie listen to a RW/UW on these boards? I know the lovely ladies can be rather opinionated at times. Because they are married or divorced or having been involved, does their advice garner taking heed to. I mean I dont have to tell you that that they can be rather complex at times.

Actually, while it is somewhat entertaining to us "newbies" to watch you oldbies alternate between slapping each other on the back and pissing on each other's shoes, the best information on this board comes from the ladies.  It is the ladies that make this board worthwhile.

[Simoni]

... entertaining to us "newbies" to watch you oldbies...

Wow, I once was a newbie and now I'm an oldbie!  Maybe I should have stayed in the hunt a little while longer! :-)))  It's difficult when one loses ones youth...  LOL

[sunandsail]

Why do we come here?

I visit every few months - I'm really just a voyeur on this site.  Visiting is like peeking in on an odd reality TV show.  It's trainwreck after trainwreck.  Some of that happens in life, but here it seems at a dramatically higher frequency.

I can't imagine using this as an information source, except perhaps of what not to do in life.  It is entertaining though - I can see how some would find it addictive.

[Simoni]

Why do we come here?

I can't imagine using this as an information source, except perhaps of what not to do in life.  

I beg to disagree.  There is much useful information here-- from restaurants to visit in given cities, to flats to rent that members have actually stayed in, and of course being aware of scam techniques and how to avoid them.  

And the Ten Commandments are golden.  Some men just starting out are numbed by beautiful and would otherwise make many mistakes that these commandments warn about in advance.

[Gator]

It's trainwreck after trainwreck.  Some of that happens in life, but here it seems at a dramatically higher frequency.

Just like the newspaper.  Few of the good stories are reported.   Of those that get reported, interest is low.  In the "Married" subforum compare the number of views that sunshine stories receive vs. trainwrecks.

Some of that happens in life, but here it seems at a dramatically higher frequency.

Not sure if you mean just RWD or the universe of RW in America.  If the latter, your assessment is incorrect.  In the Tampa Bay area my wife is a member of a social network of 250 RW with monthly meetings, etc.  Those in functioning marriages far outnumber the divorcees. 

[GregfromGa]

Why do we come here?

I visit every few months - I'm really just a voyeur on this site.  Visiting is like peeking in on an odd reality TV show.  It's trainwreck after trainwreck.  Some of that happens in life, but here it seems at a dramatically higher frequency.

I can't imagine using this as an information source, except perhaps of what not to do in life.  It is entertaining though - I can see how some would find it addictive.

Just curious as to why you would say you cant imagine using this as an information source. It's a fantastic information source if you're involved with a RW/UW. Now if you're not involved or have ever been involved or planning to never get involved then I guess I could maybe see the point you're trying to make. I mean I wouldnt go to a forum in which the main topic of conversation was igloo making or trans Atlantic kayak crossing do's and dont's. As far as trainwrecks are concerned, are you saying people cannot learn for those so called trainwecks? Those are great sources of information and it says a lot about the posters that bite the bullet and post their misfortunes for all the world to see in hopes other people might learn something. To sum it all up, to say this place is not useful information source might be the stupidest statement I've ever read on any board ever. But thats just my opinion.

[HiTech]

To sum it all up, to say this place is not useful information source might be the stupidest statement I've ever read on any board ever.

Hmm,It appears you have not done a lot of board reading. 


HiTech

[Simoni]

Gator is right.  The bad news and shocking news makes the newspaper, and the good news is not reported.  I know MANY AM/RW couples in good marriages.  But they don't come on here to complain, because they are happy.

RWD is a great source of info for newbies....see my post above that details some of what I speak.

[Faux Pas]

Why do we come here?

I visit every few months - I'm really just a voyeur on this site.  Visiting is like peeking in on an odd reality TV show.  It's trainwreck after trainwreck.  Some of that happens in life, but here it seems at a dramatically higher frequency.

I can't imagine using this as an information source, except perhaps of what not to do in life.  It is entertaining though - I can see how some would find it addictive.

The joint is quite entertaining. You obviously have not found any useful information for you and there's probably a good reason for that. I won't venture to guess what that reason may be as I really don't care. I can understand why we have the RW members and I am glad they are here. I even understand the very few if more than a couple RM who are members as they like to brush up on their english. Like Greg, I can't for the life of me figure out why an AM with no interest in RW would spend time here other than the entertainment factor. If one finds no useful information here it is only because they are not in this pursuit or have been in this pursuit in the past. It is cheap entertainment and I guess some guys really do have nothing better to do. 

[Daveman]

Well, an individual does tend to see that upon which he/she chooses to focus.  Granted there are many squabbles, debates, etc., but often time when diametrically opposing forces collide, diamonds are created. 

Any and all stories/experience shared here is/are slanted from the viewpoint of the poster, and one needs to take this into consideration when reading. However, the simple fact that these *are* real experiences in this endeavor, rather than hype from agencies seeking to open the wallet, make those presentations valuable as insight into direction for one's own situation, even if not 100% applicable.  The bottom line is -- if someone tried to follow every single piece of advice, he'd run in circles due to the nuance of individual situations. BUT, if takes as guidelines of common approaches, or less common sense approaches, one can easily see the wisdom and benefit of all the experience here.

Of course, one cannot succeed in this endeavor by sitting on one's rump merely reading a forum.  He must make his own decisions, put together a plan, a backup plan, and then get his feet on the ground over there and observe the reality from his own perspective, which hopefully he'll also bring back and share.  Sometimes perspectives collide, and that's a good thing as the scope of one's focus, if one has an open mind, will be broadened through such perspective collision. Tunnel vision in any endeavor, and especially THIS one, is more often than not, a killer.

IMO, this is where RWD really shines because it allows the collision of perspectives which gives a larger picture and scope than that which one individual will attain alone.

Juuuuust some thoughts..
Dave

[myrddin]

I asked myself the thread topic question a lot. 

When I started, I read everything posted and kept up for months.  Mostly because of my pursuit, but also because this was a rare place where I saw a couple disputes resolved like adults.  Definitely a novel experience on boards in general, and perhaps a quirk of timing.   

After I learned enough that I could predict a lot of the advice that newbies would receive, there were long stretches when I was away.  I'd come back when I had some spare time and before I knew it four hours had passed and I was nowhere near caught up!  Even when I wanted to come back "full time" , I'd miss a few more days, then weeks, and it would start over.  But I just couldn't stay away RWD - classic addictive behavior. 

Finally I stopped worrying about things like how much time I spend lurking or posting, or keeping up with everything.  Fact is it's just an interesting read for me.  Sometimes funny, sometimes annoying, but often fascinating.  And there's always more to learn.