Bad news from Russia

[Sculpto]

this is very scary stuff

http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews[swords]=8fd5893941d69d0be3f378576261ae3e&tx_ttnews[any_of_the_words]=russia&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=35289&tx_ttnews[backPid]=7&cHash=cfa97d905f

[Faux Pas]

Your link doesn't work

[Sculpto]

http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews[swords]=8fd5893941d69d0be3f378576261ae3e&tx_ttnews[any_of_the_words]=russia&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=35289&tx_ttnews[backPid]=7&cHash=cfa97d905f

[Sculpto]

sorry about that.. seems to work now

[Faux Pas]

My fiance discussed this a week or so ago. Her mentioning it was the first I had heard. She seems to think they are just admitting what they have been doing all along and has never really changed since the soviet days. She does seem to think it will be getting worse and also an excuse for them to steal mail

[Sculpto]

given what appears to be going on in the Caucuses this is really scary to me.  I gotta get my girl out before the crapola hits the fan. 

[Misha]

Skype is now in the cross hairs. The cell phone companies are trying to eliminate competition from such services and the rationale they are using to convince the Russian state to take action is that it is not possible for the state to listen in on Skype conversations over the internet. New laws are now being drafted, so for those who chat with women from Russia on Skype, enjoy it while you can as it may not be available for much longer 

[ECOCKS]

Damn! Now that's a shame.

Hopefully, they will apply the same level of focus as they do on subjects such as airline safety, human rights, roadway construction and economic planning, that way it will be decades before they get around to stopping it. By then we'll be able to "twit" loved ones behind the information curtain with full audio and video.

[Ronnie]

Nabiullina also said that now the Russian government expected the economy to contract by 8 to 8.5 percent by the end of 2009. In fact, Russian officials view these figures as positive, as they had projected a 10.4 percent drop in the first half of 2009. They also maintain that the 14.8 percent industrial production decline in the first six months of 2009 is actually a victory, as their expectations had been worse (www.finmarket.ru, July 15).

Now we know where Obama gets his talking points.  Been wondering about that.  Good to know Bill Ayers has nothing to do with it.

[BC]

Nothing is scary about this. 'Big Brother' has been around for ages in many countries whether or not it 'fits' their Constitution.  The big difference today is that the technological tools are available to do actually do something with the overwhelming mass of information being gathered.

"War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength."
Orwell-"1984"

What's really interesting is that I read this book as a teen, now for the second time - but really understanding for the first.

[Kuna]

I don't see a major issue here...

I hope no one thinks mail (even electronic transmission) isn't being monitored by Western governments in an attempt to gain intelligence on terrorism or unlawful acts.  This doesn't seem much different to me...

I know some are probably thinking "OMG, those Russians are so dishonest they will steal the things I put in my mail now" without ever contemplating the mail has been or will be stolen if the dishonest wanted to anyway.

I love how the article starts out with a fact...  throws in a few hypotheticals...  and before we know it they are associating civil unrest, GEC, repressive government and mail searches.

[Kuna]

given what appears to be going on in the Caucuses this is really scary to me.  I gotta get my girl out before the crapola hits the fan. 

Pray tell - why would this cause you to have to rush to "get your girl out?"

It's a serious question by the way... I just don't understand why anyone would need to rush or change what they're doing over an article like this...

[Misha]

I hope no one thinks mail (even electronic transmission) isn't being monitored by Western governments in an attempt to gain intelligence on terrorism or unlawful acts. 

The CIA and the FBI have yet to announce that they will be setting up offices in all post offices to ensure that they can read all incoming and outgoing mail at whim without the need to be bothered by getting the permission to do so by the courts 

[ConnerVT]

The latest, regarding Skype and VOIP telephony:

http://in.reuters.com/article/internetNews/idINTRE56N41I20090724

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia's most powerful business lobby moved to clamp down on Skype and its peers this week, telling lawmakers that the Internet phone services are a threat to Russian businesses and to national security.

In partnership with Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's political party, the lobby created a working group to draft legal safeguards against what they said were the risks of Skype and other Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) telephone services...

[Sculpto]

Its pretty easy to see from the responses who would have been willing conspirators in Berlin in 1933.

BC.. I am well aware Big Brother is always at work.. the difference here that I find especially alarming is that the media has already been under control/squashed for quite some time, there are ongoing wars in Chechnya/Ingushetia and other republics of the region are volatile, there has been a growing militant and violent skinhead movement, and the military has been re-arming and venturing around to places like Venezuela in very recent times. 

Putin and gang fear popular dissent and have moved in every possible way to eliminate whatever possible threat they perceive.  Keep the population ignorant and well fed/ drunk and they won't dare rebel. 

Journalists and human rights activists are being killed, maybe not en masse, but, it only takes a few carefully done killings to quiet all dissent.  To resist the massive apparatus that is being established takes an incredibly brave and perhaps foolish person. 

Moves like this are the tip of the iceberg.  Such a drastic measure wouldn't be needed if there wasn't some other real or perceived danger they are preparing for.  It is almost a war footing. 

[Ronnie]

Its pretty easy to see from the responses who would have been willing conspirators in Berlin in 1933.

BC.. I am well aware Big Brother is always at work.. the difference here that I find especially alarming is that the media has already been under control/squashed for quite some time, there are ongoing wars in Chechnya/Ingushetia and other republics of the region are volatile, there has been a growing militant and violent skinhead movement, and the military has been re-arming and venturing around to places like Venezuela in very recent times. 

Putin and gang fear popular dissent and have moved in every possible way to eliminate whatever possible threat they perceive.  Keep the population ignorant and well fed/ drunk and they won't dare rebel. 

Journalists and human rights activists are being killed, maybe not en masse, but, it only takes a few carefully done killings to quiet all dissent.  To resist the massive apparatus that is being established takes an incredibly brave and perhaps foolish person. 

Moves like this are the tip of the iceberg.  Such a drastic measure wouldn't be needed if there wasn't some other real or perceived danger they are preparing for.  It is almost a war footing. 

Something went wrong with your posting.   I'm sure the above clip was only part of your post.  I can't find the part where you this attributle it all to Reagan and the United States.   

Hey...you know I'm only kidding you   

[bobb]

The latest, regarding Skype and VOIP telephony:

http://in.reuters.com/article/internetNews/idINTRE56N41I20090724

In the article a statement is made that the Russian telecom industry is losing money because of Skype.  I wonder just how many calls from Russia to the outside world actually do occur, as opposed to the opposite flow of calls to cell phones and landlines into Russia.  The comment just doesn't smell right. 

Many of us use Skype now to call Russia, and we plan to use Skype for L to keep in contact with her family after she arrives in a month.  Her family would rarely call her in the US.  Only in an emergency.  It is just so much more convenient and cheaper for us to call them with Skype or other methods. 

But, maybe they are losing money, although I find that hard to believe.

[Kuna]

The CIA and the FBI have yet to announce that they will be setting up offices in all post offices to ensure that they can read all incoming and outgoing mail at whim without the need to be bothered by getting the permission to do so by the courts 

Pigs Arse!  Like Australia, I am certain the USA screen every bit of mail coming into the country.  I'm sure our government is also checking mail going out otherwise how would they stop millions of dollars simply being posted overseas by criminal elements?

In Australia, the "government" can and do open any piece of mail they like without a court order.  There are laws people must adhere to and if you don't,  the police will come knocking on your door.

Russia is no different... and nor should it be.  The only difference I see is their inability to scan items centrally and instead doing it much less effectively by scanning at points of origin.

[BC]

Its pretty easy to see from the responses who would have been willing conspirators in Berlin in 1933.

BC.. I am well aware Big Brother is always at work.. the difference here that I find especially alarming is that the media has already been under control/squashed for quite some time, there are ongoing wars in Chechnya/Ingushetia and other republics of the region are volatile, there has been a growing militant and violent skinhead movement, and the military has been re-arming and venturing around to places like Venezuela in very recent times. 

Putin and gang fear popular dissent and have moved in every possible way to eliminate whatever possible threat they perceive.  Keep the population ignorant and well fed/ drunk and they won't dare rebel. 

Journalists and human rights activists are being killed, maybe not en masse, but, it only takes a few carefully done killings to quiet all dissent.  To resist the massive apparatus that is being established takes an incredibly brave and perhaps foolish person. 

Moves like this are the tip of the iceberg.  Such a drastic measure wouldn't be needed if there wasn't some other real or perceived danger they are preparing for.  It is almost a war footing. 

Sculpto,

I think you and many others sorta miss a very big point.

Back in the USSR days, folks needed permission to travel or emigrate. 

Today folks are pretty much free to choose where they would like to live.  If there is will, there are ways.. but the stark fact is that IMHO just because one form of rule is different doesn't mean it is universally wrong.  There is a thing called sovereignty - and the right of a state to protect it using whatever tools it has at hand.  Now if freedom of movement was in this mix I would tend more to agree with you.

As long as folks in a country can legally vote with their legs I really don't care much what happens within.  Yes, some things may disturb me but I really have no say in the matter.

[ConnerVT]

In the article a statement is made that the Russian telecom industry is losing money because of Skype.  I wonder just how many calls from Russia to the outside world actually do occur, as opposed to the opposite flow of calls to cell phones and landlines into Russia.  The comment just doesn't smell right.  

Many of us use Skype now to call Russia, and we plan to use Skype for L to keep in contact with her family after she arrives in a month.  Her family would rarely call her in the US.  Only in an emergency.  It is just so much more convenient and cheaper for us to call them with Skype or other methods.  

But, maybe they are losing money, although I find that hard to believe.

I'm not a telecom professional, but I am smarter than the average bear in this area.

The main concern addressed by Order 65 isn't so much about losing money, but rather the government's ability to intercept and monitor telephone conversations.  As it is easier to wiretap and monitor calls on their existing POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) than a streaming digital data conversation, Skype (and other direct computer to computer VOIP) is in the crosshairs.

[Kuna]

I'm not a telecom professional, but I am smarter than the average bear in this area.

The main concern addressed by Order 65 isn't so much about losing money, but rather the government's ability to intercept and monitor telephone conversations.  As it is easier to wiretap and monitor calls on their existing POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) than a streaming digital data conversation, Skype (and other direct computer to computer VOIP) is in the crosshairs.

Conner,

I'd suggest it's all about profits.  There's two key paragraphs in that article:

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia's most powerful business lobby moved to clamp down on Skype and its peers this week, telling lawmakers that the Internet phone services are a threat to Russian businesses and to national security.

powerful business lobby = traditional telcos

Next para of interest:

In a presentation posted on the lobby's Web site, Vice President of TTK, a telecoms unit of state-owned Russian Railways, Vitaly Kotov, called on regulators to stop VoIP services from causing "a likely and uncontrolled fall in profits for the core telecom operators."

The fundamental problem with VOIP for traditional telcos is that they own (and must maintain) the copper "last mile" which Skype generally uses to hand off calls.  Even Skype to Skype calls will typically use copper for xDSL Internet connectivity.

If you take the content revenue (calls) away from the network owner and give them limited ability to create enough profit (because they lose their call revenue) they will struggle to maintain the copper networks. How would Skype calls to RU go if there were no home telephone services left in Russia?

Traditional telcos need to maintain the copper networks and with the erosion of voice revenues they are looking for answers.

Big traditional telcos all over the world are facing the same issue.  In Australia Telstra predicts home landline voice revenue will drop by 90% because of the proliferation of mobile phones and skype type services.

[Kuna]

Its pretty easy to see from the responses who would have been willing conspirators in Berlin in 1933.

BC.. I am well aware Big Brother is always at work.. the difference here that I find especially alarming is that the media has already been under control/squashed for quite some time, there are ongoing wars in Chechnya/Ingushetia and other republics of the region are volatile, there has been a growing militant and violent skinhead movement, and the military has been re-arming and venturing around to places like Venezuela in very recent times. 

Putin and gang fear popular dissent and have moved in every possible way to eliminate whatever possible threat they perceive.  Keep the population ignorant and well fed/ drunk and they won't dare rebel. 

Journalists and human rights activists are being killed, maybe not en masse, but, it only takes a few carefully done killings to quiet all dissent.  To resist the massive apparatus that is being established takes an incredibly brave and perhaps foolish person. 

Moves like this are the tip of the iceberg.  Such a drastic measure wouldn't be needed if there wasn't some other real or perceived danger they are preparing for.  It is almost a war footing. 

Sculpto,

You didn't answer my earlier question about how this article would make you rush your girl out of Russia...

Instead you drew some strange parallel between Nazi Germany and Russia...   

Perhaps as a naked fire-twirling, gay bar frequenting Jewish man you could be highly sensitive about Nazi Germany - but really dude - is this the way your mind really works?

At least give newbies a warning that you're about to start manufacturing your next nucklehead excuse for racing into marriage before you've even met the girls family.

So...  seriously now...  can you explain what it was in this article that would make you "get my girl out before the crapola hits the fan."


 

[ConnerVT]

The traditional TelCos have more to fear from the cellular phone industry than Skype and P2P telephony.  Especially in Russia, as the majority of the broadband Internet is DSL (and there for supplied by those same TelCos).  It is more of a loss in the USA (and Australia maybe?) where there are other broadband internet options (Cable TV, cellular, WiFi).

While Skype (and others - Yahoo, Windows Live, ICQ, etc) may have taken some of the telephone business away, they in turn have also increased the demand for Internet access.  I know it to be true at my in-laws home, where they would not have likely went out and obtained broadband Internet if it wasn't for the ability to video chat with my wife.

But it does show the Russian business mentality, where they will squeeze the last ounce of blood from the golden goose, even if it kills it.  

As far as the last mile of copper - you do know that with all VOIP calls terminated to a POTS landline number (including Skype-to-phone), the company terminating the call gets paid, right?  Same thing with calling cards (which is also effectively VOIP).  If anything, VOIP has increased the number of billable minutes for the TelCos, as people wouldn't likely spend nearly as long on the telephone if they needed to pay 10-100 times more per minute.

[I/O]

The Skype (VoIP) thing seems to me this is much more about commercial interest than it is about Kremlin control. Nevertheless, the Kremlin of recent years hasn't missed an obvious opportunity to regress to former style but that style of stomping on a balloon always produces the same result, flattened in one area and bulging in another. What will they do to control satellite internet connections?

Regarding the mail thing, electronic mail surveillance is a given in this day and age but the surface mail is another thing. Again, I think it will be about commercial interest. The murky world of Russian commerce / politics is actually fairly transparent in many ways; someone with influence (read paying the powers that be enough) wants more open access to that mail. 

BTW Kuna, as I understand the regulations, the AFP (Australian Federal Police) are about the only ones who can access regular mail and must do so under the more recent anti terror legislations if they are to access that mail without warrant. I am not aware of any other arm of "government" who can realistically do so without warrant. Therefore I am highly doubtful if it is happening covertly on a wholesale level here. Would there be isolated incidents? It would be naive' to think otherwise.

Sculpto: The "Crapola" is much more likely to hit your fan if you exceed the reasonable speed limit than it is by applying due diligence. Due diligence IMO includes time with her family and friends.

I/O

[Misha]

Pigs Arse!  Like Australia, I am certain the USA screen every bit of mail coming into the country.

Coming into the country is one thing (packages and mail can be inspected by customs), but mail within the country is quite another thing. Do you really believe that the letters written and sent within Australia are routinely opened and read? Again, has the CIA and FBI or RCMP and CSIS or the Australian equivalents asked their respective postal agencies to give them offices is post offices so they can more effectively open any and all mail that they want?  If it were the case, somebody would have leaked something by now. Russia has passed a law that does not simply allow incoming foreign letters and packages to be opened by the FSB and other agencies, it has passed a law that all mail can be opened at whim. Clearly, its intent is to monitor everything that is said and written by its citizens. They were certainly  doing it before, but now they are making it official. It is IMHO a step back to the Soviet past.