Ready to Move to Ukraine

[thompsongunner06]

With all the racial and political B/S going on here in the US I told my wife lets sell the house and stuff and move to Ukraine. If we did we would take about $250,000 or more with us,,her mom has a house we can live in until we can get a nice hose built on her 20+ acres. She is a Pharmacist and I can do something there. We are in our late 40's so   we could live pretty nice there. Get a little car for her and a M/C with side car for me along with some bikes. She has a stream there we got fish and crawfish from last time and we made a big pot of "Gumbo" on an open fire by the stream. I really loved the area and people.

[ECOCKS]

Do some serious checking on your processes for obtaining the correct visa and a valid residency/work permit.

If you're bringing $250K, you can consider the investment option as well. There are some good buys/values in UA right now but the light is still a long way down the tunnel. Buying an income is a possibility but you won't get nearly the return on your investment as you will with a well-planned investment in the states.

What city you looking at?

BTW, leave your Thompson in storage......

[Ravens9273]

With all the racial and political B/S going on here in the US I told my wife lets sell the house and stuff and move to Ukraine. If we did we would take about $250,000 or more with us,,her mom has a house we can live in until we can get a nice hose built on her 20+ acres. She is a Pharmacist and I can do something there. We are in our late 40's so   we could live pretty nice there. Get a little car for her and a M/C with side car for me along with some bikes. She has a stream there we got fish and crawfish from last time and we made a big pot of "Gumbo" on an open fire by the stream. I really loved the area and people.

No offense but this is pretty damn funny!!

Racial and Political BS??????????
And you think Ukraine is the answer to solve this problem.

[ECOCKS]

Yeah, but there at least you can ignore it more easily.

Besides, more room for improvement...

[Ravens9273]

Yeah, but there at least you can ignore it more easily.

Besides, more room for improvement...

How in the world do you ignor it?
Have you read anything lately on Ukraine's current situation? Economy etc...?
How do you ignor that?

Tell the millions of people losing jobs etc... in Ukraine to just ignor it.

Ecocks. I have always had respect for your posts. However the last is one of the most riduculous things I have ever seen you write.

[BillyB]

Thompson, are you on the receiving end of racial bias? As far as Political BS, I've been to Ukraine four times and there are always people outside government buildings protesting. Sometimes streets shut down and angry people yelling through their bullhorns. Lot's of unhappy people there.

You enjoyed your stay in Ukraine and that's a good reason to move there. How does your wife feel? Does she like it here or back home  more based off her experiences?

[ECOCKS]

How in the world do you ignor it?
Have you read anything lately on Ukraine's current situation? Economy etc...?
How do you ignor that?

Tell the millions of people losing jobs etc... in Ukraine to just ignor it.

Ecocks. I have always had respect for your posts. However the last is one of the most riduculous things I have ever seen you write.

Yes, Raven, I talk to Ukrainians in country everyday and expats 4-5 times a week. I also read extensively from a variety of sources on the economic situation. You might note the post from the Washington Post columnist, David Ignatius, that I put up earlier this morning on the long-term, downward trend in Russia's economic situation.

Certainly it is tragic for the country and the citizens. My (lighthearted - since you posted all those ROFL emotes) point was in the context of the individual. As a resident with capital and possible outside income from a stable source he can ignore the situation and build himself an island for his family and friends.

I certainly agree that the FSU's political and eonomic situation is far worse than we have. If, however, he has decided to move there, I'm only trying to give him a thought or two on making the best of his decision.

[Misha]

With all the racial and political B/S going on here in the US I told my wife lets sell the house and stuff and move to Ukraine. If we did we would take about $250,000 or more with us,,her mom has a house we can live in until we can get a nice hose built on her 20+ acres. She is a Pharmacist and I can do something there.

Don't want to rain on your parade, but...

1. Let's assume the worst. You spend money, build a house, and get divorced in a few years. Will the house be in both of your names or will it be in hers alone? Worst case scenario (for you), you will end up with no house here and no house there. Yes, everybody things they can have a civil divorce and stay friends afterwards, but a lot of divorce lawyers make a fair penny as divorces are rarely amicable.
2. Are you sure you can do something there? What wage will you earn there? Could your career here survive you leaving for a few years (worst case scenario whereby you go live there and end up divorced).

I would think about this long and hard before you make any hasty decisions. It is fun being on the FSU on vacation, but even knowing Russian, I personally would not want to live there on a permanent basis.

Misha

[ambach123]

I had to read the OP several times, I still can't believe someone actually wrote it.

Racial bias?
USA is the most racially tolerant country in the world. Not that it is perfect, but a lot more tolerant than Ukraine.

Political BS?
Our system is a lot better than any other system I know, and I have seen most countries in the world.

You want to live there for a few years, so as to experience a different culture? That is a different reason,  but it may not be pleasant if you are non white.

[krimster]

Before you move to Ukraine, you need to practice for the event, preparation is key to any endeavor, preparation H is the best.

1. Find a really horrible garbage dump filled with rotting refuse.
2. Buy the cheapest imported Chinese concrete you can find
3. Locate a group of illiterate illegal immigrants
4. Use them to build the most horrible, unsafe, ugly apartment that you can
5. Go to the local prison
6. Advertise free housing to this apartment to all the prisoners who are being released
7. Now your're ready to move in.  Buy cheap fiberboard furniture and you're set
8. Randomly switch off water, gas, electricity for extended periods
8. Last step, install steel bars and doors


What you will end up with is something "close" to life in Ukraine.  Now get Dish Network and only listen to the Russian Channel owned by the Russian Government which constantly tells you about how stupid Americans are and how really great Russians are.

Then cancel your health insurance and refuse to get any, pretend that there are no competent doctors or clinics nearby

Don't worry at all about impending socialism in America, you will live it first hand every day in Ukraine, see you're already dealing with the future, as a bonus, you'll get to feel what being an object of prejudice and discrimination is like, because you're an American in Ukraine, and the Russian TV is telling everyone that Americans are pridorki, so you must be one to.

Don't forget that if you decide to leave that legally your money has to stay.

Don't get upset if people are rude to you in Ukraine, rudeness is the new black

As a side bonus you'll soon become well acquainted with con artists and scams of every kind, maybe you can use this firsthand knowledge to write a book about it, ka-ching!

Are you still here?  Why haven't you left yet?

[ECOCKS]

It is not nearly that bad for an expat or even the family of an expat.

Hundreds do it for varying lenths of time and there are more than you think who are actually living there.

If you are going to be serious about this, you do have a lot of thinking to do beforehand. However, it's possible.

I would never make a comment concerning trusting your wife and her family, but, like any country, you would expect that citizens are going to have more consideration by local authorities than you do. My wife legally owned my company, look inside yourself as to what you believe, not what others try to scare you about.

Personally, things are going to have to get a whole lot worse here before it is even remotely as frustrating as being a citizen there.

Just consider carefully before you jump off a cliff.

Garbage dump? Come on Krimster, that's off base for someone talking about coming in with a chunk of capital to set themselves up with. Ok, the concrete and the bars on the windows are better but the prisoners and random power outages are stetching, at least for Kyiv.

[krimster]

 

Amerikanski who are tired of hearing about the media's portrayal of politics or race relations, can of course escape it by moving to Ukraine. 
There are many vancancies.  If that doesn't work out there's always North Korea or Sudan, Mogadishu is also nice...

[ECOCKS]

Ah, someone with an agenda.

Whatever, you can find decent places, we all do it.

Make your own decisions.

[Misha]

It is not nearly that bad for an expat or even the family of an expat.

Hundreds do it for varying lenths of time and there are more than you think who are actually living there.

Most successful expats that I knew tended to be highly skilled professionals working for international companies doing business in the FSU. I have my doubts as to whether thompsongunner06 fits into this category. If he doesn't have a job before he leaves, the odds are not good that he will find some high paying job upon his arrival. The days of simply flying to Moscow or Kiev or wherever and finding a good job simply because you are a foreigner are pretty much over.

However, there will be other challenges. According to thompsongunner06's status, he has been married 0-2 years. In other word, she is still smack in the middle of culture shock. So, of course, she fantasizes about how life would be wonderful back home with all this money to buy a house. However, when they move, he will live through his culture shock and this is a challenge for any couple.

Plus, he will move in with the MIL. As they say, two's company and three's a crowd and when he moves back, thompsongunner06 risks discovering that he will be the third wheel. If he does not know the language, his wife will quickly tire of translating everything. He risks becoming irrelevant as he likely won't be able to do anything without his wife. In other words, he will be the outsider and a not very useful outsider at that, except for his money. All of this will also put more stress on their marriage.

Sure, maybe it will all work out, but if you look at the men who tried, few stayed (Scott returned, Richard returned, Krimster returned....).

My question: thompsongunner06 could you survive (emotionally, financially, psychologically) if you returned back the USA with no wife, no money, no house and trying to rebuild a career when you may be in your mid-forties? If the answer is no, I would not move.

Yes, she is going through culture shock, yes she misses her mother, but in the long run it will pass and she will acclimatize to life in her new country, and I would wager that at that point you will have a good laugh at the foolish idea you had to move to Ukraine  
  

[ECOCKS]

Funny, most Kyiv and Odessa expats I know live in normal conditions. That includes a range of folks from Peace Corps volunteers and adventuresome English teachers on up to those few who are Bank Executives and Country Managers of multinationals. Some speak Russian, others depend on family or co-workers while they begin to pick up the language themselves. While a few live on Kreshatyk or in center, most live in the areas around the fringe of center like Podil/Shevchenko or Minska and a number live across the river. These are normal folks. They either trust in the local healthcare system or buy insurance. The ones in the provincial cities (where your wife's family live probably live since you mention 20 acres) do proportionately better. Talk to your family, consider carefully your situation and financial situation and reach a rational decision.

PM if you want to chat with real folks who live there. I'm confident enough concerning Kyiv and will direct you to some who live in smaller cities if you want real information about living as opposed to being a tourist.

Where did "cultureshock" and all the scaremongering about your wife and family come from I wonder? Nothing about that in the OP.

Both sad, disappointing and amusing, all at the same time.



Make your own decisions.

[Misha]

Where did "cultureshock" and all the scaremongering about your wife and family come from I wonder? Nothing about that in the OP.

Fine, give him your advice. Let him sell everything he has in the United States and move to Ukraine to be with his mother-in-law. He can build a house, put it in his wife's and mother-in-law's name. If ever they get divorced, we'll see how much money he gets back. I would wager zero, nada, nothing.

You should keep in mind that living with the in-laws is one common reason as to why people get divorced. They don't have a choice, but our OP does.

In any case, my advice is worth what it is worth. However, if I read a train wreck story in a few years, don't say that I didn't warn him  Maybe they will live an enchanted life in Ukraine, but I am pointing out that there are some pretty big rocks in the rapids that face him should he go through with his plan.

[GoodOlBoy]

Sure, maybe it will all work out, but if you look at the men who tried, few stayed (Scott returned, Richard returned, Krimster returned....).

Yes that reminds me....whatever happened to all of that money that Scott spent on that beautiful flat that his MIL now "owns"?


GOB

[Misha]

Yes that reminds me....whatever happened to all of that money that Scott spent on that beautiful flat that his MIL now "owns"?

Scott never said as far as I know. But, I would be shocked if Scott recoups even one hryvnia out of all the money that he spent on that property.

[kievstar]

Be careful building a house unless you have local family members helping you control the people you hire to do the construction unless your the type of guy who has a strong presence and can strike fear into RM.  Otherwise buy something already built and hire a realestate company to make sure no liens, poor construction, etc on property.

You will also need to convert to a Ukraine citizen as you do not sound like someone who could get a work visa.

Regarding the economy I was just in Kharkov and many new stores are opening up and bad businesses are closing . Really do not see any economic issues that were not there 4 years ago.  Economy is working as bad business models failing and new opportunities are happening.  A lot of construction is going on including the airport.  From a good source we maybe getting a direct flight from Kharkov to Chicago in the future.  Chicago to Kiev may happen as well. 

[Misha]

Be careful building a house unless you have local family members helping you control the people you hire to do the construction unless your the type of guy who has a strong presence and can strike fear into RM. 

At the end of the day, it will likely be his wife's and/or MIL's house, so I am sure they will make sure it is built properly  :evil: Can you own a house in the countryside in Ukraine if you are not a citizen? I assume that the answer is no, but perhaps I am wrong.

[kievstar]

Misha, you can own a house or houses which I have done in past 3 years if a foreigner.  You cannot own a big piece of land.  So someone wanting to buy 1/2 acre land and is a foreigner will need to register it under his wife if she is still a citizen.  So building a house on a 20 acre land will be in the MIL name. 

[Misha]

Misha, you can own a house or houses which I have done in past 3 years if a foreigner.  You cannot own a big piece of land.  So someone wanting to buy 1/2 acre land and is a foreigner will need to register it under his wife if she is still a citizen.  So building a house on a 20 acre land will be in the MIL name. 

Thank you. That is what I thought: if the OP goes through with his plan, he will be building his MIL a nice house  :evil:

[thompsongunner06]

WOW!!! Was venting ref the current racial stuff,,looks like it will never end. BTW if we did move and spend time there her mother is almost 80,,prob will not be around much longer(only God knows). She has 20+ acres and 8 more with her house on it.
All in all I dont think we will move there and retire. Every country has "issues". No I am not in any "racial" problem. I do thank God I am not a police officer any more. I had a lot of fun for 12 yrs doing it and the best part was helping people. I have a lot of respect for all officers and I always make their job pleasant when they ever talk to me.
Our President did jump the gun before he had the facts.
Also the area we were in was very country,,nice little home,,,kitchen in another building,,well water,,new outhouse. Everyone was very nice,,,the fish stew was great too. Also this is my second marriage and hers too,,,we are too old now to ever get married again! Thats a joke guys!

[JR]

The OP will have to make up his own mind on this one. There are a lot of good points being made on both sides. I think it comes down to how well you know your wife, her relatives and yourself. The question really does come down to one of what will you do if it all falls thru? Do you have a back up plan? Can you leave a chunk of money in the US to get yourself back on your feet should things not work out?

About two years before the end of my marriage I faced the same question but for different reasons. I offered to sell everyting we had and move to Krasnodar. We would have taken about 650K. I was going to buy the property next to her grand mother house, the general store next to that and, viola! we would be set. That was my fantasy. The reality would have been something different.

There are a lot of pitfalls with what you are proposing. Think it thru. Always have an exit plan and don't put all your eggs in one backet.

And bringing the MIL into the mix just sounds like an all around bad idea.

That's my two cents worth.

[Aloe]

BTW if we did move and spend time there her mother is almost 80,,prob will not be around much longer(only God knows).

thats what 1 guy was thinking agreeing to give a little money monthly to an old old lady in exchange for her apartment upon her death. He ended up paying triple the price of the apartment and she outlived him