Why are Russians still stuck in the Cold War mentality?

[MatryoshkaMan]

When I go to Moscow in October there is 2 military museums I'd like to visit (one air and the other tank). Both are on the outskirts of the city. I have been to such museums all over the place, especially the US and Western Europe.

Kublinka tank museum - read thus BS and laugh - this is from the "offical" website. I love the references to espionage and KGB! This could have been written in 1962!

Location: Moscow region, Kubinka (about 1 hour by car from Moscow). Military Institution-Laboratory (NIIBT) area, see the history of museum.

Status: state, military, Defense Ministry (Russian Army)

Access*: restricted military area

Open: Wednesday - Sunday 10.00-17.00

Guide service: Russian speaking officers, military historical & technical specialists.

Services**: photos (no professional/technical) are available for additional charges.

Special categories of the visitors: model makers and journalists have to inform in advance.

Hot line: (495) 544-8611 (English, Russian), (495) 542-0766 (Chinese)

The special events: "Victory Day" May 1,2,3,4,9,10,11, "D-day":  6-13 June 2004,   "The begin of Soviet- German War" June 22

 

FAQ's (Frequency Asked Questions) Learn more...

I visited the same US tank museum without the prior permission. Why I have to get the permission in advance in RU?     -  1) That is not really the museum, that is the collection, the part of the secret Institution 2) There are the special rules how the foreigners can visit the military areas.

I live in USA. In 2-3 months I am going to visit Russia as the usual tourist. How can I receive the permission and when you recommend me to send the request? Learn more...

At this moment HQ prohibited any tank ride. Do not trust to any travel agencies. If you are REALLY want the tank ride, please send us the request, but we can not promise you the positive decision. We can offer you the alternative military base for riding..

The current facility of the tank test driving as request army1@nm.ru  Learn more at "tank ride section...

T-34, IS-3 (WWII, the Red Army)....and other tanks as request army1@nm.ru

Notes:

The Access to Military-historical Sites

Access to Military-historical Sites is necessary for all foreign and Russian visitors.

Foreigners should note that the state special authority permission is required in 2-3 weeks before visit. The special information is required as follows:

1. The name of a museum from the list to visit

2. Visitor’s personal information (ex. John Dow)

3. Passport information (ex. ID12345678) and Date of Birth (DOB)

4. Citizenship

5. The date of arrival (as planned)

 The Access to Military-historical Sites is valid for 1 month.

WARNING

* Any attempts of the  citizens of NO Russian Federation (including former-USSR) to visit museum with the Russian visitors could be qualified as the UNAUTHORIZED  ACCESS. The violator could be accused in the ESPIONAGE. In all halls there're the video-camera control and the FSB (former KGB) officials. Any attempts to leave your travel agent representative and to visit the next military instantiation area could be qualified as the unauthorized access too.

** Please, read carefully this information for the model makers and journalists.

The Russian military officials DO NOT LIKE the model makers (the regular violators of the museum rules)

Russian tank museum rules let make the USUAL NON-PROFESSIONAL photo- or VIDEO camera with YOU and the VEHICLE as the background  ONLY.

Camera is qualified as PROFESSIONAL with any glass (non-plastic) lens more that 10 mm diameter. Send us the model and photo of your camera to check one army1@nm.ru

Usage the non-authorized or non-specializing travel agency for the tank museum tour could be the reason why you can not visit the military museum

Any attempt to HIDE your model maker photo- (video-) aim could be the reason of your withdraw  from your current and other military museums

The museum administration does not guarantee the access to museum for the visitors who are sending the permission request for the non-authorized non-specializing organizations. The request is NOT the argument for the attempt to visit museum without the PERSONAL DIRECTIVE from the military headquarter. We recommend you send us your request by yourself.

Check the CATEGORY of your video- or photo- camera before to order the tour. Mail us army1@nm.ru your camera model to be sure that you can use it without the "technical filming" fee and the special permission. Thank you.

You have to inform the museum administration about the journalist aim of your visiting such as the publishing in the newspaper or magazines. Any violations of those rules could be the subjects of the International judgment.

The administration of the museum has the right to qualify the technical filming as the usual filming and let to pass the vehicle border in the case of the visitor  does inform in advance the administration about his aim and will write the "thank words" for the museum officials. Thank you.

How to start?

You have to send us at army1@nm.ru the request for the visit with the information about yourself and when you'd like to visit the museum.

 

[JR]

They're afraid someone will steal the secrets of the T-34

[OlgaH]

Kublinka tank museum - read thus BS and laugh - this is from the "offical" website. I love the references to espionage and KGB! This could have been written in 1962!

The museum is located in the territory of one of operating military bases of Russian Federation - the testing area of the 38th Research Institute of  the Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation, entry to the territory of a military base is regulated by the Ministry of Defence.

[MatryoshkaMan]

Olga the first time I was in Switzerland back in 2004 I visited a small city called Thun and there is the main army base for the Swiss (do they even have an army? ). I wanted to see the tank museum which was in the middle of the base - I had found out about it before I left on the trip. No idea how to get in, very little info about it. But I knew that it had agood collection of German WW2 panzers that I wanted to see..to make a long story short I just showed up at the main entry gate and in brutally bad german said I wanted to see the tanks. After waiting a bit up comes a swiss soldier who walks me over to the tanks. We couldn't speak to each other but we shared a lot of laughs as I climbed on the tanks and he took my "hero" pose on quite a few of them. After this long "personal tour" we walked back to the main gate, shook hands and I was on my way!

Care to compare this to the tank museum in Moscow? From what I read there if I take a picture of a tank from 5 degrees off the "correct angle" I will be shackled, thrown in the back of a jeep and off to the Gulag...

Honestly just the thought of travelling to Russia & Ukraine for the 4th time has my hackles up already! The attitudes and "customer service" are attrocious!

[Ade]

Olga the first time I was in Switzerland back in 2004 I visited a small city called Thun and there is the main army base for the Swiss (do they even have an army? ). I wanted to see the tank museum which was in the middle of the base - I had found out about it before I left on the trip. No idea how to get in, very little info about it. But I knew that it had agood collection of German WW2 panzers that I wanted to see..to make a long story short I just showed up at the main entry gate and in brutally bad german said I wanted to see the tanks. After waiting a bit up comes a swiss soldier who walks me over to the tanks. We couldn't speak to each other but we shared a lot of laughs as I climbed on the tanks and he took my "hero" pose on quite a few of them. After this long "personal tour" we walked back to the main gate, shook hands and I was on my way!

Care to compare this to the tank museum in Moscow? From what I read there if I take a picture of a tank from 5 degrees off the "correct angle" I will be shackled, thrown in the back of a jeep and off to the Gulag...

Honestly just the thought of travelling to Russia & Ukraine for the 4th time has my hackles up already! The attitudes and "customer service" are attrocious!

So if I walk up to the gates of a US army base and tell them I've come to see the tanks I'll get a personal tour? Or is it more likely I'll get locked up in Guantanamo Bay?

Remind me, who is it that wants to build "missile defence bases" in countries bordering Russia?  

Oh crap, I just realized you are Canadian, ay? Well, the same thought applies.

[I/O]

Russian documents, stamps and petty regulations annoy me greatly, more than greatly and THEN I look at my own country. Russia looks like paradise sometimes. 82 pages in 3 copies (certified) to get her residency visa approved. The government recently blocks the sale of OZ Minerals (Mining company) to the Chinese because one of the leases extends into a restricted military area. For goodness sakes, what military monster would we have hidden? Spare tyre from the first generation F111? 

[Aloe]

so far in my experience belgium bureaucracy is far worse than russian, i had to send almost 200 grams of paper (they determine sending fee based on weight, how many A4 sheets are in 200 grams? it was a fat stack) just to get belgian authorities to allow us to marry. The fact that local authorities have the power to allow or deny every single marriage is ridiculous, whatever happened to human rights around here i dont know, luckily i didnt need to get a fiancee visa, otherwise it probably would have been another hundred grams lol

[Ade]

so far in my experience belgium bureaucracy is far worse than russian, i had to send almost 200 grams of paper (they determine sending fee based on weight, how many A4 sheets are in 200 grams? it was a fat stack) just to get belgian authorities to allow us to marry. The fact that local authorities have the power to allow or deny every single marriage is ridiculous, whatever happened to human rights around here i dont know, luckily i didnt need to get a fiancee visa, otherwise it probably would have been another hundred grams lol

It's the same everywhere. For our marriage license we had to fill in 2 forms from me and her stating a lot of personal info even down to if we had any STDs and each of us had to counter sign the others. We also needed 2 witness statements, photocopies of her passport and visa, a fully translated and attested birth certificate from her, a fully translated and attested photocopy of her marital status, and I also had to get a signed declaration from my ex that we'd finished sharing any joint property from my previous marriage. Thankfully, Norwegians have a centralized personal register system so I didn't have to send them lots of other crap as they could look it up themselves.

All in all though, much simpler than the BS that Americans and Canadians have to live with.

[AugustD]

Maybe a large generalization of all the US....

Thank God for small town America...our marriage license last week was 2 pieces of paper...a $20 and a $10.  No paperwork...no identification...nothing...they were only worried with spelling russian names correctly.  The one document needed, they completed for me and I signed.

"pick it up tuesday and we will have a list of names of people to do the ceremony for you.  Do you want us to call some of them?"

Certainly some processes of the US are mounds of paperwork but not all....

[groovlstk]

It's the same everywhere. For our marriage license we had to fill in 2 forms from me and her stating a lot of personal info even down to if we had any STDs and each of us had to counter sign the others. We also needed 2 witness statements, photocopies of her passport and visa, a fully translated and attested birth certificate from her, a fully translated and attested photocopy of her marital status, and I also had to get a signed declaration from my ex that we'd finished sharing any joint property from my previous marriage. Thankfully, Norwegians have a centralized personal register system so I didn't have to send them lots of other crap as they could look it up themselves.

All in all though, much simpler than the BS that Americans and Canadians have to live with.

Actually, you've pretty much described the K1 process in the US. I didn't need any witnesses but the only thing I needed to provide, in addition to the above, is proof that I was above the poverty threshold and could support my wife.

[GoodOlBoy]

"pick it up tuesday and we will have a list of names of people to do the ceremony for you."

Orrrrrr......just fly/drive to Vegas and get married in a couple of hours!  :evil:


GOB

[Phil dAmore]

The museum is located in the territory of one of operating military bases of Russian Federation - the testing area of the 38th Research Institute of  the Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation, entry to the territory of a military base is regulated by the Ministry of Defence.

Perfect explanation of how Russia works Olga! 

[Ade]

Actually, you've pretty much described the K1 process in the US. I didn't need any witnesses but the only thing I needed to provide, in addition to the above, is proof that I was above the poverty threshold and could support my wife.

Um, okay, so why on earth do I hear so many people complaining so much about all the paperwork? Sure, what we went through was a bit of a pita, as it is for all people like me that find any paperwork a hassle but from all the moaning I thought it was literally reams and reams of paperwork over there.

[Misha]

All in all though, much simpler than the BS that Americans and Canadians have to live with.

Sorry, getting a marriage license is quite easy in Canada and there is little "BS" involved. The process takes a matter of minutes. The requirements for the province of Alberta as an example:

• You must be at least 18 years old (if you are younger than 18, you will need legal consent from your parents)
• You must show acceptable identification such as a birth certificate, passport, treaty status card, Canadian citizenship card or driver's licence
• Both parties must provide their parents' full names and birth places
• You cannot be related to the person you wish to marry by whole blood, half blood or adoption (for example, you may not marry your grandparent, parent, grandchild, child or sibling)
• You must be currently unmarried
• If you are divorced, you must present proof the divorce is final such as a Certificate of Divorce or a Decree Absolute
• You must have your wedding in Alberta, however you do not have to be an Alberta resident to get married in Alberta
• You must be free of the influence of drugs and alcohol when you apply for a Marriage Licence (and when you participate in the wedding ceremony)
• Both parties to the marriage must apply together for their marriage licence

Additional requirements for special circumstances:

• Both parties to the marriage must speak English (Note: If they do not, it is their responsibility to provide an interpreter who is over 18 years old and is fluent in both English and the language requiring translation. If the registry agent issuing the Marriage Licence is fluent in the other language, then that registry agent may proceed as the interpreter for issuing the Marriage Licence. The couple applying for a licence cannot translate for each other.)

When we applied, they didn't even pay attention to this last clause as I was interpreting for my soon to be wife. The license was issued after applying. The paperwork took less than a minute to fill out and we could have gotten married the same day if we had wanted to.

[jdk1963]

So if I walk up to the gates of a US army base and tell them I've come to see the tanks I'll get a personal tour? Or is it more likely I'll get locked up in Guantanamo Bay?

Remind me, who is it that wants to build "missile defence bases" in countries bordering Russia?  

Oh crap, I just realized you are Canadian, ay? Well, the same thought applies.

In the days when you had military personnel instead of rent-a-cops you would get a laugh and sent over to the guard shack.  (The Nautilus was at Mare Island and we had on occasion tourists looking for a tour).  Go to any base now and you'll get jack-ass rent-a-cops.  Same with the embassies.    I dreaded the idea of 18 months at Gitmo 20 years before camp x-ray ever existed.  I was fortunate and drew Mare Island.   

[ECOCKS]

Military bases all over the country (US) have museums located on their grounds. It is routine (even post-911) to pass civilians through the gates. License numbers are often taken down or photgraphed and license checking is about the extent of the security. Granted, many of the roads have been modified in the last couple of years to limit ease of access to the more secure areas of the base but that's about it.

And Gitmo was a truly wonderful place, beaches, sea breeze and a sense of freedom that was all things wonderful and exciting.

OK, that was 45 years ago, but it was all that and more back then.

[DKMM]

We have museums located on Army bases here, and its absolutely easy to visit them.  Wright Patt AF base for example.  Russians are just paranoid mixed in with some inferiority complex.  I've seen traces of this in every single one I met, so I'm not surprised at all you are facing this issue.

[Aloe]

we had to give them
birth certificate
proof of not being married
proof of living at some place
extract from russian laws saying im allowed to get married
proof of russian citizenship
also our local office asked on top of that for letters from my husbands family saying that they know me and they vouch that it would be a marriage based on love
and a letter from a belgian employer saying they would hire me if i was to come over
only after that they allowed us to marry
I read in other commune offices in belgium they also take you two to separate rooms and interrogate for a couple hours to see if you give same answers, if not, they dont let you get married. Ridiculous eh? And theres topics popping up all the time on this forum i go to, saying they denied them marriage and what to do? They violate their belgian citizens rights by not allowing them to marry, cuz the constitution says everyone above certain age is free to marry, so the people that got denied have to sue, but the time it takes to process the lawsuit, the womans visa is always expired by then and its not easy to get visa extended, i even read this story, it was on local tv, about belgian-russian couple, they arrested her because she overstayed her visa waiting for the marriage to be allowed, cuz their initial request got denied, and she got treated like shit, they wouldnt even give her water in jail, and make fun of her and etc 

[GoodOlBoy]

Pic's of Russian Submarine Base and biggest submarine in the world:

http://englishrussia.com/?p=2525


GOB