My trip to Ukraine

[janic]

Loved Southern Portugal and will be going back.

a) Where have you been?

b) Try the Atlantic coast. About between Peniche and Figuiera da Foz.

[Kuna]

am i understanding correctly that you went on a romantic trip with another woman after meeting the ukrainian woman? Does the ukr woman know about it ?

Ewwww.. Aloe....  I hope you've not going to uncover something unsavoury.

I saw the same thing you did but I hoped it wasn't "romantic", or "intimate".

 

[JamesDH]

No editing allowed on the original post.

So if you're reading it.. skip the sexual parts

Sitting here in the airport I reflect back to things that were trivial at the time. One thing that keeps coming up is how she flows. It's like she floats instead of walks. When she uses her hands to talk it's very elegant. You can tell she's had ballet training and it just adds to the feminine air about her.

I just got an email saying she is anxious to see me again and is going to surprise me with red borscht (the surprise will be.. is it edible). I sort of got on her for letting me visit there for 6 days before introducing me to any of the local cuisine/traditional dishes. We went to a Ukrainian restaurant one night, after I asked, and had borscht, Some stuffed sausages, some veil with potatoes and cheese. All superb and very tasty. We also had a drink called Cvass that was really good.

Well I just got off Skype with her and it was a hoot. She couldn't sit still and we both laughed like school kids and said I love you about 50 times each.

Now.. to learn the fine art of keeping a Russian woman.
My Russian friends say to keep them at arms length, keep them chasing you as if they are about to lose you. That's never been my style... Hope he's not right.

James

[JamesDH]

I could not have been romantic or intimate with the woman from the US. In fact I regretted having her there but.. it was bought and paid for before I went to Ukraine.
My heart was elsewhere and I can't do the playboy thing.
I will have to say that it was an excellent eye opener/reality check as the woman from the US had a big crush on me. We had the serious talk last night in Lisbon. She's gone.

I stayed in Burgau and visited from Lagos to Sagres.. every beach between them and some on up the Atlantic coast. Beautiful.. stunning.
I am seriously considering moving there. I took a lot of pictures to show to the woman. Maybe I can get her down there next time (September) and see what she thinks.

Does the Ukr woman know about it? No. Will I tell her? I am debating that very thing with myself right now. I think she suspects but I didn't get any questions.
It would be the right thing to do.. sit down and have a talk about it.
Will she understand? Will she fly off the handle? Will I live thru it??
I do not want to ruin it by being dishonest but I don't want to ruin it by being too open either.
Advice????

James

[Faux Pas]

Does the Ukr woman know about it? No. Will I tell her? I am debating that very thing with myself right now. I think she suspects but I didn't get any questions.
It would be the right thing to do.. sit down and have a talk about it.
Will she understand? Will she fly off the handle? Will I live thru it??
I do not want to ruin it by being dishonest but I don't want to ruin it by being too open either.
Advice????

James

Are you "committed" to each other? Absolutely under no circumstances whatsoever should you bring it up or tell her about it. However, if she asks you , you should indeed tell her the complete story. To offer such information would not be the right thing to do. Listen, your conscience should be clear. It was a planned trip before you went to UA. The woman was a hack and from your description nothing happened and you couldn't wait to get shed of her. Let that sleeping dog lie and get on with living. IMO

P.S. She won't understand

[Mars]

I agree almost completely with Faux Pas here.
Absolutely no need to tell the UW about your Portugal visit.
Almost the same as avoiding all discussions about your past girlfriends and romantic affairs.
Women will never be understanding about such, and probably the same goes for men to some extent.
If you were engaged, it would be a different situation.

But to Faux Pas:  You must have misread my first post.  And  I am still right.  Men here have jumped all over those men who had sex on first date.  But the OP here has gotten a complete free ride on that issue.  I still don't understand why.  Yes, he didn't tell details, but the jumpers still jump on those who have sex on first date; whether details are given or not.

[GoodOlBoy]

Hi James.

Always let your conscience be your guide (as told by the "original" Blue Fairy).  

If NOTHING happened......Then there is nothing to talk about.

If something DID happen.....Well, that's another story. 


GOB

[Muddy]

Sitting in Paris airport at the moment waiting on the flight to Kiev then Odessa.

I think http://www.ukraine-international.com/eng/main.html
may have direct flights from Paris to Odessa

[Mir]

There are a LOT of very attractive women in Odessa. I think a man could just show up there, walk around and basically pick which one he wanted

Rather strange comments>what women are we talking about? The only ones that a man can just pick are the professional kind.


Also rather surprising how people are congratulating this as another RW success. He has only spent 7 days, how is that a success?

[Muddy]

Got valuables? Carry them on plane when traveling at Boryspil
 
 
Many travelers to and from Boryspil
International Airport find their
valuables are missing when they open
their suitcases.
 
Travelers call them airport vultures Police dub them luggage thieves But whatever their name, they work at Boryspil International Airport checking out your bags after you check them in

er you check them in.

“Every third bag was pilfered, every single flight was checked, and only one percent of these incidents were investigated,” prosecutor Eduard Shevchenko said in describing the massive scope of fraud in the nation’s largest international airport.

Major air carriers in Ukraine reported more than 11,000 thefts in 2007. Police, however, registered just 578 incidents for the same period of time. They opened criminal proceedings only in nine cases. After an investigation exposed the staggering difference in reported thefts between the airlines and police, the General Prosecutor’s Office last month busted a police squad and six luggage handlers.

“I was waiting 45 minutes for my suitcase,” said Kateryna Koval, a victim of baggage looting after arriving in Ukraine from a recent trip to Istanbul. “What do you think they were doing all this time? They were pulling things out and now an airport handler somewhere is one camera richer!”

Celebrities, prominent businessmen, ambassadors and even students–all have fallen prey to luggage thieves. Passengers reported cameras, jewelry, laptops and other valuables missing from their checked­in cargo after crossing a Ukrainian border.

Prosecutor Shevchenko said that police and airport security workers responsible for escorting passengers’ bags from the airport to an airplane “were practically ignoring their duties.”

In summer, with herds of holiday makers rushing to get away, bag­lifting spoils many a holiday.

“A luggage mafia exists, it’s a fact. Chaining middle management and lower level personnel, it works on the principles of kinship and joint responsibility,” claims investigative journalist Artem Shevchenko.

His TV program “Undercover Agents,” echoing British “Dispatches” and America’s “60 Minutes,” went behind the scenes in Boryspil in winter 2008 to trace stolen cameras and laptops. “Undercover Agents” is broadcast Mondays at 10:30 p.m. on Inter TV channel. Shevchenko discovered that the first serious probe into the “growing trend” was ordered by a parliamentarian whose wife’s jewelry was stolen on a flight from Los Angeles.

The deputy, Igor Shkirya of the Party of Regions, served on the transport committee at the time. He joined forces with aviation officials to investigate luggage fraud and his wife’s missing $14,000 rings and earrings.

This commission found out that a passenger with a valuable load goes through a chain of well­trained personnel who have their own Morse code for bag­lifting. The weakest link in this route is the luggage section on a plane. Without security cameras, handlers find themselves alone with travelers’ luggage and their valuables.

“We learned there’s a black market for stolen goods and even catalogue orders of what’s needed,” the journalist said, referring to the scale of fraud.

Prosecutors deny that there is an organized chain, so do Boryspil officials. “Luggage looting is one of the main problems airports face all over the world,” airport officials explain on their website’s front page. A special department for air security has been set up to tighten control. Twenty luggage handlers “who could not be trusted” have been fired over the last few years, according to the website.

“Agent” Shevchenko, however, says that these measures are a pretense more than anything else. “There was a case when a handler got caught, but then was exonerated by the court. That’s because they all cover up for each other.”

He also found out that many handlers had criminal convictions in the past. The prosecutors have confirmed this information.

At the popular Ukrainian aviation portal, www.aviation.com.ua, a technician working for one of the airlines laid out his observations of luggage theft in Boryspil. Wishing to remain anonymous, he wrote that the airport’s security system is corrupt all the way through. He said that a point of travel or an air company makes no difference to those who steal. He advised that locks or cellophane wrappings were no obstacles to handlers who can pinch anything, even perfume.

Since handling companies are hired by the airport, airlines complain of little control over passengers’ bags. Nevertheless, airlines are liable for lost or stolen luggage at the end of a flight.

Ukraine handles complaints under the Warsaw Convention, an airline responsibility system that allows companies to reimburse passengers for lost luggage according to the recorded weight of a suitcase, not by the actual value of its contents. These rules set airline liability at $20 per kilo with a maximum of $640 per suitcase.

So, if a $500 camera weighing just 400 grams has been looted by baggage inspectors, one is likely to get only $8 back for it.

The General Prosecutor’s Office, which has investigated the theft problem, points fingers at the police department in Boryspil. Prosecutors have replaced an entire squad in the airport and approached Minister of Interior Yuriy Lutsenko to punish higher­ranking officials for negligence. They also advise air carriers to install security cameras in airplane’s bellies.

Major airlines for their part suggest diversifying luggage handling companies to prevent theft.

Shevchenko from “Undercover Agents” agrees with Boryspil officials that bag­lifting is an international problem. But in Ukraine, he says, “it’s a trend of threatening dimensions.” Outside of Ukraine, pilfering is so rare that major European carriers do not even distinguish between pilfered and other mishandled bags when filing their reports to the Association of European Airlines.

The journalist believes, however, that tolerance for the thefts will decline as the General Prosecutor’s Office shines a spotlight on the problem.

For the time being, Ukrainian airport officials advise travelers to pack smart and zip valuables into carry­on bags.

[GoodOlBoy]

Allso rather surprising how people are congratulating this as another RW success. He has only spent 7 days, how is that a success?

Compared to the "horror" stories I have been reading lately on RWD, this TR is a MONUMENTAL achievement! 


GOB


BTW....James, DO NOT tell your FSUW about RWD....please! (sorry Dan) 

[JamesDH]

GOB. I did not answer your original question. "is she a true red head?" Yes she is.
I dated one in high school and have been in love with them since. She is red head to the core including the quick temper.

I will go out on a limb and qualify the trip as a success. It met ever expectation I had and more.. much more. Does it have to end in marriage to be qualified as a success?

I'm a few hours away from the "second pancake" as she says, but I have a feeling it will go as good as or better than the first.

I've searched high and low for direct flights and found nothing. It's not that big of a deal. I thought I was going thru Kiev again but checking I see I'm going thru Prague.  I learned long ago going thru Africa.. All valuables in the carryon as well as a change of clothes. Carry as little valuables as possible and look poor. They search your wallet on the way out of Congo looking for $$ ("anything for me" they say as you hand them your wallet) I keep my cash in my socks and only bring a $300 laptop, no cell phone, no flashy camera etc..

Did I mention I hate Paris (CDG) airport?

GOB.. I thought of that long ago. Do NOT tell her about RWD!

[GoodOlBoy]

Did I mention I hate Paris (CDG) airport?

Me to.

I wish you luck on this trip James, BUT...From what you have written, I don't think you need it. 

Happy trails.


GOB

[Faux Pas]

But to Faux Pas:  You must have misread my first post.  And  I am still right.  Men here have jumped all over those men who had sex on first date.  But the OP here has gotten a complete free ride on that issue.  I still don't understand why.  Yes, he didn't tell details, but the jumpers still jump on those who have sex on first date; whether details are given or not.

Maybe I did misread it so, I'll clarify. For the record, and I hope this doesn't turn onto a morals debate but, I personally see nothing wrong or harmful with having sex on the first date. Sexual compatibility is a hurdle to be leaped in most relationships and if the first date progressed that far and to that point, who's to argue? We are talking grown adults here and the only people with a dog in that hunt are the two specific people in question. It's a personal choice that is nobody's business and should remain private.

With that said, I frown upon anyone who has sex no matter which date, then states it on the boards for forum fodder. It's classless and immature. We don't need to know or debate the intricacies of anyones sexual encounters, it's none of our business. I even question the OP's stating it in this thread.

I have read threads where what you state is true. That is usually the result when members suspect sex tourism and usually, rightfully so. I think collectively most members here despise sex tourism and the quickest way to get hammered is to elude to a sex tourism ambition. When that happens, be prepared to defend thyself. I've also read other threads where the OP eluded to sex on the first date or first meeting and came out unscathed. Some I would  attribute to the current tone of the forum and others where someone starts a feeding frenzy.

IMHO sexual exploits should be left out of TRs and off the forum altogether. It's doesn't belong. If a man member of this forum needs to bounce off other members sexual questions concerning FSUW, then he doesn't stand much of a chance anyway. If anyone has to post sexual liaisons, they should forget about FSU and stick with the local hookers and a porn forum. FWIW 

[JamesDH]

Third day of second meeting.

What an amazing woman.
I am a lucky man.

[Muddy]

Good luck James
I hope her name is not Katya or Valery

[JamesDH]

Here it is my 5th or 6th day on the second trip. (stopped counting)

Let me qualify my last post.
What do i mean by amazing woman?
She is so capable. She can do so much with so little. She is an outstanding cook. Her borscht is better than the high class restaurant we went to. She is on top of everything. When i wake in the morning.. coffee and breakfast are waiting along with her bubbly sweetness and many kisses. She glides thru the house with grace. She goes to work looking like a model. She comes home and doesn't sit until dinner is ready, clothes are in the wash and everything is in order. (I clean the house while she's gone). She listens to everything I say. I mentioned that I didn't like instant coffee that much. Next day.. brewed turkish coffee of superb taste.
I've sort of figured out a few things. One.. when she gets home from work she is a little "wound up" from the stress of her job. I found that if I meet her at the door, kiss her and then start some horseplay such as pushing her a little, tickling her or pinning her to the wall (all in fun) she gets into it, I let her win for a bit then I dominate her gently, it takes all the stress out and she relaxes and becomes her bubbly, laughing self again. That is very indicative of the relationship we are forming.  It is amazing the interaction we have together. It's hard for me to put into words. I feel totally comfortable and at home.

Over the weekend we went out with her family. Great people. Made me feel welcome and  at ease. Very friendly and very genuine. I had my vodka episode. Her sister's husband was there. He speaks almost perfect english. He ordered vodka and offered me some. I did a shot with him and he kept saying.. Just one drop more and ordering more 100ml bottles. Soon I was flying high but we bonded and since have talked as equals. It also changed her and I's relationship slightly. She seems to accept me more (as if she didn't accept me enough already). She saw that I did not get angry or aggressive after a little too much to drink as well as I think she respects the bond her brother in law and I formed.
Last night we went to their house (very nice apartment) and ate. What a warm welcome and great time. We talked and laughed and ate and drank like old friends.

How am I a lucky man?
I trusted my instinct and feelings to concentrate on one woman against logic and advice. I did it because we had such a wonderful report in email and skype.
I arrive here and got to know her and things just got better, they still are.
It may sound cliche but if I could order a woman she would be exactly like this one.
Out of the blue she will say "I love you" and I believe it. Last night she said it as we were walking home, then she said "I really love you" and I believe that as well.
She makes me feel like the man because she is the woman. No gender confusion. I accept the role and play my part with joy. She likes it and I think it makes her feel the woman. Her bother-in-law told me they are glad to see her so happy and not alone anymore.
It sounds like everything has been perfect and well.. it almost has. There has been a couple of hiccups but we have been able to work thru them with ease. Patience and understanding from both has allowed us to talk them thru. She actually listens to me and I listen to her. I respect her greatly. I trust her 100%. She is a good woman. No.. she is an amazing woman.
Do I love her? No question. I want to spend the rest of my life with her and she says the same. She made a comment that I think sums it up "I am happy that I found someone that is as crazy as I am". It's true, we are like a hand in a glove.

Does this trip qualify as a success?
Using my yardstick I'm going to rate it 110% success.

[Aloe]

Here it is my 5th or 6th day on the second trip. (stopped counting)

Let me qualify my last post.
What do i mean by amazing woman?
She is so capable. She can do so much with so little. She is an outstanding cook. Her borscht is better than the high class restaurant we went to. She is on top of everything. When i wake in the morning.. coffee and breakfast are waiting along with her bubbly sweetness and many kisses. She glides thru the house with grace. She goes to work looking like a model. She comes home and doesn't sit until dinner is ready, clothes are in the wash and everything is in order. (I clean the house while she's gone). She listens to everything I say. I mentioned that I didn't like instant coffee that much. Next day.. brewed turkish coffee of superb taste.
I've sort of figured out a few things. One.. when she gets home from work she is a little "wound up" from the stress of her job. I found that if I meet her at the door, kiss her and then start some horseplay such as pushing her a little, tickling her or pinning her to the wall (all in fun) she gets into it, I let her win for a bit then I dominate her gently, it takes all the stress out and she relaxes and becomes her bubbly, laughing self again. That is very indicative of the relationship we are forming.  It is amazing the interaction we have together. It's hard for me to put into words. I feel totally comfortable and at home.

Over the weekend we went out with her family. Great people. Made me feel welcome and  at ease. Very friendly and very genuine. I had my vodka episode. Her sister's husband was there. He speaks almost perfect english. He ordered vodka and offered me some. I did a shot with him and he kept saying.. Just one drop more and ordering more 100ml bottles. Soon I was flying high but we bonded and since have talked as equals. It also changed her and I's relationship slightly. She seems to accept me more (as if she didn't accept me enough already). She saw that I did not get angry or aggressive after a little too much to drink as well as I think she respects the bond her brother in law and I formed.
Last night we went to their house (very nice apartment) and ate. What a warm welcome and great time. We talked and laughed and ate and drank like old friends.

How am I a lucky man?
I trusted my instinct and feelings to concentrate on one woman against logic and advice. I did it because we had such a wonderful report in email and skype.
I arrive here and got to know her and things just got better, they still are.
It may sound cliche but if I could order a woman she would be exactly like this one.
Out of the blue she will say "I love you" and I believe it. Last night she said it as we were walking home, then she said "I really love you" and I believe that as well.
She makes me feel like the man because she is the woman. No gender confusion. I accept the role and play my part with joy. She likes it and I think it makes her feel the woman. Her bother-in-law told me they are glad to see her so happy and not alone anymore.
It sounds like everything has been perfect and well.. it almost has. There has been a couple of hiccups but we have been able to work thru them with ease. Patience and understanding from both has allowed us to talk them thru. She actually listens to me and I listen to her. I respect her greatly. I trust her 100%. She is a good woman. No.. she is an amazing woman.
Do I love her? No question. I want to spend the rest of my life with her and she says the same. She made a comment that I think sums it up "I am happy that I found someone that is as crazy as I am". It's true, we are like a hand in a glove.

Does this trip qualify as a success?
Using my yardstick I'm going to rate it 110% success.

wow sounds amazing, congrats
your post makes me feel inferior, there is no way i can wake up before my husband to make him breakfast and there is no way id immediately start cooking after work without even sitting down lol. I wish i had so much energy

[Ade]

Do I love her? No question. I want to spend the rest of my life with her and she says the same. She made a comment that I think sums it up "I am happy that I found someone that is as crazy as I am". It's true, we are like a hand in a glove.

Does this trip qualify as a success?
Using my yardstick I'm going to rate it 110% success.

Congratulations James.

So will you wait a while to see if you feel the same in 6 months before you propose...?

[JamesDH]

wow sounds amazing, congrats
your post makes me feel inferior, there is no way i can wake up before my husband to make him breakfast and there is no way id immediately start cooking after work without even sitting down lol. I wish i had so much energy

Don't feel inferior, the woman is high energy!!! I can not keep up with her for sure.
We don't sleep until 2am or later and she's up and at work by 0900. I'm still sound asleep.
Breakfast consists of bread smeared with some sort of white sauce and layered with cucumbers, meat and cheese. Delicious.
Ok maybe she sits down after work but not for more than a few minutes to catch her breath. Smiling the whole time.
She was not impressed by my cleaning of the kitchen. Not that it wasn't clean enough but that "it's not your place". OK, what ever you say dear...
I did empty her vacuum bag. I swear it had not been emptied since new. I also make the bed after I get up (it's a fold up couch but is very comfortable).

Marriage?
She knows I am looking for a woman to be a wife and she knows that I think she is the one. I am not in a hurry. If she is I can't tell it. We'll cross that bridge when it comes time.
Meanwhile.. I'll be back in September and things will progress.. which way will depend on us.

I didn't mention any negatives.
I think that's because I've learned long ago that everything and everyone has negatives. How they affect you depends on how you deal with them. Does she do things to irritate me? Not that I've found yet. Do I do things to irritate her? Not that she's brought to my attention.
Odessa? Sure it's not the US but I've learned to look for the good of where ever I am and enjoy it. It's a lovely place if you let it be. Wonderful people, wonderful food, wonderful beer, wonderful history.. What more do you need?
Speaking Russian? It's hard but the people take such joy in me trying. Great laughs as I mangle the words but.. I try.
I can say No, Yes, Let's Go, I don't understand, I understand, drink up, delicious and I can count to 5!!

Great fun!

[AnastassiaAsh]

Pictures, man, pictures! They will complete this happiness. 

[JR]

YAY James, you're on a great track. Hope it just keeps getting better. It sounds like you two feed each other's souls...

[JamesDH]

I've been back in Africa a few days and have formed some thoughts about the trip.

First thing that surprised me is how much I learned / am learning about myself.
No doubt that the woman I met is all woman. On the other hand she expects me to be all man.. not the man/child I've become.
I took some ridicule from her and her family on this point. "little boy" I was called a few times.
What I've taken from that is.. I am the man/child.
I will change into the man.
It's been a long time coming but this experience is just the catalyst I need to make this transition. I can feel it starting already.
My outlook has changed, the way people look at me has changed. They way they talk to me has changed.

She understands all of what's going on and is in full support of me.

Second thing I noticed was how comfortable I felt in Odessa.
Slower pace of life, good food, good beer and great people. More of the "cafe culture" I like.
I'm seriously considering getting an apartment there so I can spend more time in the area.
(I think the transition depends on me being in that atmosphere. No woman in the US has inspired me to even think about it)

What about her and I?
I am in love.
She is an amazing woman.
We do feed each other in a way.. many ways.
The language barrier is our biggest obstacle at the moment. (it is bigger than first anticipated)
She promised (without me asking) to learn English saying that the biggest problem for her is the teacher she had in school. The way she taught the class made her hate the language and now she has a mental block against it.

Our future?
I'm going back on Sept 23rd for a week then back to the US for a week or so then, maybe back to Odessa, maybe back to South Africa (I want to go on safari while I'm working in the area).
I would love to take her on Safari with me.. we'll see.

[bigdeg]

Congrats DH!
 Good to hear about a "near perfect" relationship. And the "be a man" reference is great too.
Tally ho...
Dale

[travelua2009]

strange story, truly say i do not believe in such stories, may be because i live in ukraine and know more life here