Need Real Estate Agent in Ukr

[thompsongunner06]

OK,,,wife needs an agent that can show/sell property. 20+- acres,, another 8+ with house on it. Near Kiev,,,600 kilos away.Dnepropetrovsk town. PM me with any contacts

[kievstar]

How much will you give me of %?  

[ECOCKS]

Near Kyiv or near Dnepropetrosk?

[krimster]

Moy droog,
  Every Uh-cry-eena gazetta has shall we say an extensive listing of "agents", Some to be more certain of accuracy, will just copy verbatim the phone book and put "Agent" after each name, much simpler that way.  The only requirement for being a real estate agent in Ukraine, is to be able to say, "I'm a real estate agent".

Now you perhaps may have heard of this thing called the "Interweb", which is a series of tubes somehow connected together which provide information.  The interweb thingy has a thing called Google, which let's you submit  requests to the Oracle and receive a reply.  What I propose for you to do is go to that Google thing, and type the words, "Real Estate", "Ukraine", and search through the results for information that matches your requirements.  All ist Klar, herr Kommisar?

Y.O.S.  Tex Krimster

P.S. have fun!!  Selling real estate in Ukraine is like "chumming", it puts the sharks into a feeding frenzy, don't get bit!

[thompsongunner06]

Hey Krim,,,,I did a search on this PC thing,,,did not get much,,most was for renting apartments,,,,Was hoping someone here had a "connection" or "contact" that was a real agent.The % will go to that person,,so if you have a friend in the business let me know,,they can give you a kick back.

[kievstar]

Hi,  I can get you in touch with several agents (English speaking and they have real estate lawyers as well in their company) depending on where these two properties are.  I need the following and it needs to be specific.  If it is Kiev, what region of Kiev.  Need specific city and area of the city.  If not in Kiev, need specific city. 

What is the size of property 1 and 2 - not acres (use square meters).  They do not use acres in Ukraine when selling.  Also, in square meters how big is each house?  How many floors.  How many rooms.  When was it built approximately.  Is there water on the property (river, lake)?  Does each property have electric and gas?  Does each property have normal bathroom or do you have to go in a hole outside. 

All of this is important.  Also, is there any debt or liens on the property. Depending on the above it may be more attractive to a big builder who will tear down the houses and build several for sale. 

[krimster]

Dear Mr. .45 ACP (230 grain?)

   Have a start with this

http://dir.meta.ua/topics/en/real-estate/

They have loads of real estate agencies that buy/sell.  If you yourself have no direct experience with the sale of real estate in Ukraine, the closest analogy to finding an agent would be obtaining the name of a reputable crack cocaine dealer in the worst section of Harlem. Ukrainian real estate agents are never recommended by anyone.  SOP is to throw a dart at the newspaper to select an agent, they will sign you to a fixed term contract for 3% commission, try to talk down your price (because they will jack it up in a back room deal with the client) and never let you talk directly to potential purchasers cuz' of the price thing.  Then when the deal is about to be consummated, half the population of Ukraine will suddenly jump out from nowhere and start jabbering about "their" fees, mysterious taxes, and so forth.  If you navigate successfully the mine field and assuming the local banks are at the level of functionality that they can supply the necessary cash, you will now at some point be required to actually take possession of the cash, in a country where even grandmothers will cut their grandchildren's throats for the price of a sack of potatoes.    It is advisable at that point to leave Ukraine at your earliest convenience, which is a convenient segway to the next issue of taking the money out of Ukraine.  By Ukrainian law and custom, this money is not actually allowed to leave Ukraine, so you will have to smuggle it out.  See it's not just a job, it's an adventure, people pay big money for the thrill of jumping out of airplanes, and so forth, you will get all this for "free".  After you parachute into the USA, be sure to have your RE sale documents with you when you declare the cash on the treasury form.  If you parachute near JFK, the closest citbank is in Jamaica, NY, see reference to Harlem, above, you will meet many charming African Americans there who will if you like help you carry the money on the way to citibank.

If you detect a certain level of disdain in my rambling, it's because several years ago I actually made a living by making a killing in UA RE.  "But what does it profit a man, if he loses his soul?"

In conclusion, these are just a few words on a subject that could easily encompass an encyclopedia, with the volumes on "Documents - Obtaining", "Scams", "Petty Bribes" being the largest.

It's a long and winding road.

P.S. only "kickbacks" I ever received was from the mizzes to the joppa for allowing my eyes to linger rather excessively on the bare breasted Amazonian sunbathers lining the Chorny Moira

Y.O.S Tex Krimster



 

[kievstar]

Very easy to take money out of Ukraine.  Go to Credit Suisse and open an account in New York City over the phone they have a branch in Kiev.  Keep the money in Kiev.  Credit Suisse has no issues in Kiev as the rich politicians and mafia guys use it to transfer money to Switzerland.  Last thing Credit Suisse is going to do is have customer problems in Kiev.

If this property is in a good location and the house is in good shape and size your looking at over 500,000 usd in total for both even on current prices.  Land alone is about 100,000 square meters.  Could be worth 3 million usd but really depends on where the property is. 

[krimster]

"Very easy to take money out of Ukraine.  Go to Credit Suisse and open an account in New York City over the phone they have a branch in Kiev.  Keep the money in Kiev" 

Yes, where it will remain.  It seems that some of you are more familiar with "Tales of the Oligarchs" then with Ukraine's banking code regarding the limit on amounts that can be wired outside of Ukraine, read the fine print, unless of course you are content with wiring a few hundred USD every month.

I would really hesitate to make such a hasty appraisal of value, "near Kyiv might mean Nezhin", haha you can grow cucumbers high in Strontium, no need for a refrigerator light, all vegetables and fruit are self-illuminating thanks to light blue Chekov radiation.

Y.O.S.  Tex Krimster

[kievstar]

Krimster I wired more than a million dollars in past two years out of Ukraine.  I paid the taxes in Ukraine and USA (USA taxes foreign profits) and the wire transaction fees.  I think you are still living with the banking practices before 2004. 

How do foreign companies do business in Ukraine - they leave the money in Ukraine.  Please.   

When did you actually sell real estate in Ukraine and did you sell several million dollars or was it under a million usd? 

[krimster]

Actually sold everything in 2006-2007.  My primary bank at the time was ING in Kyiv (who left Ukraine) plus Ukrsots and others, had this conversation many, many times up to the Direktor level, it's not up to the banks, it's Ukraine's law (which of course can be broken/ignored), read about if you like and tell whatever stories pleases you.

[kievstar]

Krimster,

Tell me about the computer program ING bank uses for electronic banking.  It is called Isabella - ever use it?  Ever use a digipass token or smart card?  Do you know where ING headquarters is.  It is not in Kiev?  Maybe closer to Brussels. 

Krimster, tell me about Ukraine laws.  I find it funny since I did consulting work with PWC and Ernst & Young in Kiev with very wealthy foreign individuals and  foreign companies on taxes and investments.   You can legally withdraw money from Ukraine.  Yes you pay taxes on it but many countries are like this.  Sounds like you sold your property illegally and put the money in your underwear in the airport.  Talking to a director in ING in Kiev?  - Sorry none of the executives for ING are located in Ukraine.  Sounds like the guy you talked to lied about title. 

I currently am a senior executive for a company that has more than 8,000 global banks as customers including ING, Fortis, Credit Suisse, UBS, HSBC, Llyods.  We provide security around electronic banking, healthcare records, online gambling, etc. 99% of our customer base is outside USA and Canada. 

[krimster]

Kievstar,
   Once again you demonstrate a rather profound lack of understanding.  ING's office in Kyiv was of course not THE corp HQ of ING, it was a small office, mainly business, but foreigners could do personal banking there.  As I said previously, they're not even there anymore  Most folks over the age of 18 in Europe know that ING is a DUTCH co and not Belgian.  Isabella is for businesses I had a personal account, so never touched it, used the internet, or in person.  A director of a branch office is not a corp executive.  Paid the appropriate taxes on property, in Ukraine that's done when you sell (in case you didn't know), and I always had the buyer pay it.  A good tactic.  I'm not a banking insider at all, just a "businessman", encountered enormous incompetence and lack of knowledge in every bank I ever did business with in Ukraine, you'd be about average...  You, a "Sr executive", haha that's a good one...  Do you know Bret Hartman?

[kievstar]

Krimster [removed name],

Since you have been on RWD when you get upset you take personal attacks probably why you argue with many on this board.  I do not know Bret Hartman.  But I do know Eugene in Sevastopol who drives a very old Mercedes and is a tour guide.  

So you lived in Sevastopol and bought property and had a software business. You said on November 2005 you had an offshore trust for your money which is legal to pay no taxes on.  Will see about that.  I am going to report you to the IRS.  I do not like hard core criminals and tax evasion is criminal.  You mentioned you paid no taxes in USA on your business in Ukraine and properties you sold in Ukraine.  Only a fool would say that on the internet or someone is lying.  You may think I am a so so professional but I am connected.  So have fun with the IRS in 4 years.  I am going to wait to see how UBS goes before I send your information I already got from the Internet.  Have a good life.  

[krimster]

As usual, you have your facts wrong.  Eugene is from Simferopol not Sevastopol.  By all means report me to the IRS, FBI, CIA, whatever, every time you type something here YOU make YOURSELF look idiotic.  My trust was well established  by a professional firm and reviewed by my attorney and as long as the money doesn't come back to the USA is by US law exempt from taxes, any 1st year accounting student can explain it to you, or you can spend 5 minutes on Google and read about it, off-shore trusts are perfectly legal, so report away, by all means...

Every post you've made to me demonstrates a profound lack of even the most fundamental basic knowledge, so by all means continue them, gives me something to laugh about, and there's not a whole lot these days that can do that, Oh Bret Hartman, he's the CTO of RSA, you never heard of him, really you being a Sr. executive in the financial security industry?  Would be like a programmer who never heard of Bill Gates, enjoy your happy meal...

The last refuge of a B.S. "artiste" is always his fictional "connections",  glad to see you cut to the chase, hopefully this is a sign you're running out of other fictions, please stop boring me and others here...

[Admin]

krimster/kievstar,

I already have one 'tiff' I am trying to manage between members. I do not need another.

Please do NOT make issues here personal - such as stating full real names publicly. Also, do NOT issue threats of any sort in the public forum. If you feel the need to make threats, at least do it in PM's - and preferably, no threats of any sort at any time.

Thanks,

- Dan

[krimster]

Thanks Dan,
   You're right. I'll subject myself to a voluntary restraining order, restraint is not easy for a curmudgeony bloggist 

[thompsongunner06]

Hey Kievstar,,,,PM sent,,,,I did not want to start a war,,WOW. We plan on doing every thing on the up and up. Any agent/company will get a % of sale.

[thompsongunner06]

This is getting crazy,,,Seems agents/companies are out of business(a lot of them). Banks want to buy property at a  CHEAP price(to prob re sell at a huge profit). Wife and her mother are very upset at the economic out look. She will give a very good commish to any agent who sells property(s).  I will list it at a free on site company(?). Any ideas or recommendations?

[krimster]

Mr. T,
   Yes, of course it's crazy, this is what I've been trying to tell you.  I don't know any of your particulars, and the devil is always in the details where he wears a wicked grin, but I can however tell you the what and how of what works and what doesn't, but my experience is based on "back in the day" when there was a functioning RE market and banking system, things are a little different now.

Prior to my presenting what I consider to be the most salient details, I must divulge to you that I am beginning to gain the impression that you and your wife are over "here", wherever that may be, and your property is over there.  If that is the case, you are SOL, if you'll pardon me for so saying.  It's impossible to sell your property with this circumstance.  Sounds a bit like you're hoping to score the name of some top-notch highly trustworthy professional firm, who will stage and present your property and put a check in the mail to you when it's all done.  Uhhhhmmm-hmmmm....

Also, go the window, open it, and throw that tone of desperation out as far as you can, everyone in the 'biz in Ukraine will smell it a mile off, and that truly is the last thing you want.

If you and your wife really are over "here" you can just put to rest the notion that you're going to sell this property.

If, on the other hand, this is a false impression and the mizzus is over there as well, please understand that selling property is a subject every Ukrainian with a sick grandmother is an expert on, your wife should be included in this demographic as well (even if Bubba is healthy)

First, is do "due diligence" and price your property.  Every city in Ukraine has scores of little "gazettas" which have massive numbers of property listings.  Sounds like your property is mostly land, which is easier to price.  Figure out how many soteks your mizzus owns and what the local price is.  As is usual with RE it's all about location, so understand where your property fits into the local preferences, near a market, major residential area and so on.  Understand that most property prices you see listed are nothing more than "wishful thinking" on the part of the seller.

There are two types of RE agents in Ukraine.  The first kind got fired from some lame job for stealing and then came up with the brilliant idea that they'd be a RE agent by investing the grand total of $2 in a newspaper advert.  The second type is a bit more established, has an office, should be more properly called a broker and has sales agents.  This is the kind you want to deal with.  They have a high monthly burn rate, what with a krisha and all so they actually have some motivation to get out and work.

Do you need more???

[BC]

This is getting crazy,,,Seems agents/companies are out of business(a lot of them). Banks want to buy property at a  CHEAP price(to prob re sell at a huge profit). Wife and her mother are very upset at the economic out look. She will give a very good commish to any agent who sells property(s).  I will list it at a free on site company(?). Any ideas or recommendations?

Just slap together a quick website yourself....

add pictures, details, even a google satellite map

Then go spam potential clients

You're probably not alone so maybe even others will join up listing their properties.  Word of mouth goes a long way.

[kievstar]

Krimster I think part of the problem is were not really understanding what each other is saying. You had a business and you bought many houses but had a hard time getting money out of Ukraine with a bank?  How did you get the money into Ukraine? Really hard for me to believe you could run a business in Ukraine and buy property but have no idea how to legally get money out of the country. 

The Eugene I know has an office in Sevastopol and drives an old mercedes.  I used to meet him at his office.  So were talking about someone else.  But he is a popular tour guide.  I dated a girl for 2 years in Sevastopol.  Since I dumped her I do not talk to Eugene as she was a friend of Eugenes wife.  But if the Eugene you know drives an old Mercedes and is in his mid 30's than maybe the same guy. He never charged us but I would pick up his meals. 

Second I worked for GE and large fortune 500 companies in my career mainly.  I work for a company currently that provides security in healthcare, online gambling, universities, banking, etc (not just banking).  Hartman is no Bill Gates.  The famous people in financial security are the mathematicians in Belgium.  I also never said ING was in Belgium I said closer to Brussels as compared to Ukraine. 

Third  I was talking about not reporting income you made in Ukraine (funnel through your offshore account).  Of course your CPAS and financial advisor's are going to tell you it is legal.  That is how they make money.  If your a USA citizen your income you made on sale of business and houses in Ukraine is taxable but you should be ok as you made peanuts on the sale.  As a licensed CPA I am obligated to report to the IRS unethical dealings. 

Thompson -  I sent you a couple of emails.  But I will agree with Krimster selling realestate in Dnepro is no picnic.  Would have been easier if Kiev or Donetsk. 

But Krimster if you read his history you would understand where his girl is at currently.  Next time spend some time reading first.

[krimster]

"Krimster I think part of the problem is were not really understanding what each other is saying."

No, I have no difficulty in understanding what you are saying.  My objection to your statements arise from the fact that they are incorrect or based on simplistic assumptions that are also erroneous.

" Really hard for me to believe you could run a business in Ukraine and buy property but have no idea how to legally get money out of the country"

As an individual in Ukraine, I have no such right, the law quite clearly states that I may not leave Ukraine with more money than the amount I brought in.  Simple as that, 5 minutes on the interweb will provide verification to this statement. 

Eugene is from Simferopol, Dan knows him, as do others here.  End of story, spin it however you wish.

"Second I worked for GE and large fortune 500 companies in my career mainly..."

Really curious how the barrier to employment has been so dramatically lowered that it now includes those who cannot write grammatically correct sentences. Yes, I read your boasts, everything from selling BMWs to teaching accounting to being a Sr. Executive in your financial security services firm.  I suppose your firm has to have an administrative assistant to proof-read all your correspondence and reports so as to avoid any embarrassment.  I believe any reader with a  professional background and education can read your posts and easily see that you are not a peer. 


"Hartman is no Bill Gates."

How would you know, you couldn't identify who he was?


"The famous people in financial security are the mathematicians in Belgium."
Really, why not name them then.  Why overlook the work that Netscape in Mt. View did by laying the foundation with SSL, or the developers of the most common public-key cryptography RSA which came from MIT, or Phil Zimmerman's PGP , or a symmetric cypher such as the good 'ole DES that was created by the NSA over 30 yr ago.  These are all Americans, what's this obsession with Belgium all about?

"I also never said ING was in Belgium I said closer to Brussels as compared to Ukraine."

It's also closer to Iceland, but why would you use it as a reference point?  Again, what's with the Belgians?





"Third  I was talking about not reporting income you made in Ukraine (funnel through your offshore account)."

I have no tax liability if the income was not in my name nor in the name of  any company in which I held stock that paid me a dividend.  Accounting and taxation 101.

"Of course your CPAS and financial advisor's are going to tell you it is legal."

Yes, because it is.


"but you should be ok as you made peanuts on the sale. 

So your "professional" opinion is that legality is based on the quantity of money involved.


"As a licensed CPA I am obligated to report to the IRS unethical dealings."

Which hopefully includes someone misrepresenting themselves as a CPA, as I said before, report away, by all means, spend as much time as you wish on this endeavor, I' sure a CPA has nothing better to do with his time.

"But Krimster if you read his history you would understand where his girl is"

Rather than do that and wade through 80+ posts, the more effective method would be for me to simply ask him.

In closing, it would be illuminating for you to show here using on-line references where my statements regarding money transfer out of Ukraine are wrong and yours are right.  I eagerly await your post, and will offer a full apology if you do.

[thompsongunner06]

My wife's mother lives in the house. Her brother is also close by. We have called him to help out too,,,his wife is a "difficult" to deal with if you know what I mean. The house has 3 bedrooms,a living/dinning room and indoor bathroom. Out side has another bath room and a detached kitchen/storage building. She has some livestock and small farm she takes care of herself.The other land is farm and she gets
"free wheat" for her live stock.  We are in no hurry,,we just want to start the process so she can move here when it sells. Wife does not plan on giving the property away. Her mother is not in bad health so we will wait for a good buyer. I'm sure the large land part can be divided up to smaller lots. 

[krimster]

Your circumstances make the prospect of selling your wife's property a difficult one, and this is not in reference to it's marketability, but rather in reference to the process of selling RE over there. 

Step one, is preparing all documents, you need title, a number of permits, plus a note from each utility stating that you don't owe them money.  A major time sink, this was a full-time job for my wife when we were selling.  You need to have all this in order BEFORE you contact a RE agent.
If you don't provide titillating "gifts" (cough) cash (cough) to the sullen, angry bureaucrats, then this process will take months, your forms will go to the bottom of the pile, and those bearing gifts, will somehow make it to the top, remember this.  You will also have to look into talking to an "advokat" and a notary about your MIL having power of attorney to sign for all these.

As previously explained, select an agent who has a physical office.  At the first meeting, they will provide an estimate of the property's value.  You have to "go with your gut" on this one, too high and the property languishes on the market, too low and the agent starts to get ideas of raising it in some back-office deal.  They will produce a contract for your wife (the legal owner) to sign.  Your MIL will also have to have power of attorney to sign this, I've never done this, so I'm unfamiliar with the rules.  However, to be frank, giving a relative in Ukraine power of attorney would send chills down my spine.  I would also recommend not telling the RE agent your wife is in America, say Kyiv or Moscow.

The terms of a typical Ukrainian RE agent contract are 3% commission and the duration of the contract is normally 6 months.  What this means, reading the fine print, is that even if you or some other agent sells the property in this time period, you still owe them the 3%.  If the value of your property is in excess of $200,000 you have some negotiating room about the commission.  I would also urge you not to make the contract exclusive (all terms are negotiable), the agent will moan in protest about his expenses, so you need to prep your MIL about this.

First thing a RE agent in Ukraine tells his client is watch out for thieves.  It's a real urban legend in Ukraine, but could easily be real when you have strangers wandering about your property.  I'd recommend removing all valuables ahead of time. 

A little addendum about pricing, Ukrainian RE agents use a ploy for extracting a bit of extra cash out of you, by only telling you at the last minute about taxes and "fees".  My way of dealing with this is at the beginning say, "I only want to talk about my price what goes into my pocket, everything else is on top, paid for by the buyer".  Then always, always, always stick to this.

Hope this helps, have you checked with local banks, do they have the cash?



P.S. "Difficult" Ukrainian relatives, is there any other kind?