Nice American Man wondering about his relationship with Ukraine woman

[kens1958]

Hi everyone thanks .... The advice and comments keep getting better....
I would like to answer 2 questions...
1) The reason I still desire to have children at my age is because my only biological Boy Died before he was talking at a young age.... It was from a children's toy .... That basically murdered him...... I am left to day with a big hole in my life...... I have a great life style.... I have built a strong business and estate..... but I do not have a son to carry on after I am gone....... This is the pain I carry.....

2) I wondered also about the whole sexual attraction thing.......

Lastly .... OK you can hate me now if you must .... but I find woman over 40 for the most part unattractive..... and old...... Of cores I feel the same about men over 40......What does that say about me? I don't know?  But I do like to live life to the fullest ... full of zest and activity... mixed with fun and some common sense....
Maybe I'm heading in the right direction...... maybe I'm heading in the wrong direction?...... but at least I'm moving.....and I'm living life....... If I stayed in my old neighborhood with the kids I grew up with ... today I would probably be dead ... or worse..... instead of flying around the world looking for a quality wife to share my life with and have my son..... ( I hope any way).....My life has been made up of doing the exceptional.... doing what others could not conceive of doing...... and It has brought me great rewards........SO to be clear Age is not a factor to me.... as long as we are compatible , she is attracted to me and I am attracted to her, and she is young enough to have children ... and desires to have children...... Hey I expect a lot..... but then I also give a lot......
"The key is not finding the right person..... but being the right person" I try to remember this.....

[GoodOlBoy]

OK you can hate me now if you must .... but I find woman over 40 for the most part unattractive..... and old......

Oh Jeeeez! 

Get out the popcorn, hide the knives and let the "howling" begin!  :evil:


GOB


BTW.....Ken, I don't know if you have thought about this or not, But....The good Lord might bless you and your future wife with a Daughter(s).

....but I do not have a son to carry on after I am gone....

... instead of flying around the world looking for a quality wife to share my life with and have my son.....

[GregfromGa]

Ken I think for the most part people are just trying to make you aware of some of the problems with this process. Of course people can fall in love at different ages. The problems isnt falling in love but staying in love over the years. I'm 13 years older than my wife but we still make each other laugh every hour whether we try to or not. I do wish you luck. I do hope things workout for you just the way you want. There are some real shallow and stupid people that have migrated to this board so keep that in mind as well. Hopefully they'll find another way of entertaining themselves in the future and move along or will get moved along. Hang around here. read the archives, buy your plane tickets and enjoy your search.

[kens1958]

 

[Ravens9273]

Ken,

You made the comment that the 20 year olds are coming after you.
This is a pure indication you are using such a service as Anastasia or HRB or site of similar where you are paying per letter. Also on these sites the lady herself is not sending that first interest letter to you. These ladies do not sit at the agency on the computer surfer the Men listed on the site. The agency or the website itself is sending those first letters to you and 90% of the time every other letter to you. Do not flatter yourself thinking these 20 year old girls want you. Every Man who joins these sites gets all those letters from the young hotties.

On sites where money is not being made per letter it is a whole different story. You will notice a big difference in the amount of letters you receive and the difference in the ladies sending you the letters.

I personally own a completely free site for Men to meet RW. I never mentioned it here nor will I give the link because I did not come to RWD for this reason. It is a free site where I make no money. Just so happens I own my own servers for other websites so I put this up. Not costing me money either.

However from 3 years experience owning this site where no agencies are involved and it is just communication between the Men and Women, first there are not alot of young hotties coming to the site. In reality most are not looking to meet a foreign man for marriage at their age. They get enough attention at home. When you see the young hotties on Anastasia etc... You must know they were recruited by the agency with promises of gifts etc.. they would receive. These young ladies did not have the idea to find a husband and search out an agency to join.

Second the Men do not receive the amount of letters they do at pay per letter sites. In fact many do not receive letters from ladies at all unless they write first. But I can definitely say Men 40 plus are not getting letters of interest from the very few 20 year olds.

It is obvious as well that those pay per letter sites hooked you in with the outrageous fantasy which has given you one hell of an ego now.

[Blues Fairy]

What does that say about me? I don't know?  But I do like to live life to the fullest ... full of zest and activity... mixed with fun and some common sense....
Maybe I'm heading in the right direction...... maybe I'm heading in the wrong direction?...... but at least I'm moving.....and I'm living life.......
My life has been made up of doing the exceptional.... doing what others could not conceive of doing...... and It has brought me great rewards........SO to be clear Age is not a factor to me....

"Me, me, me."  You are very self-centered.   I wonder if you're even hearing what we here are telling you.  
Of course you have the right to live your life, do the exceptional, not think of your age and blah, blah, blah.
But from the girl's point of view you are probably just another middle-aged American who is chasing after her and stroking her ego, while she has no serious intentions whatsoever.  And ultimately it's the girl's point of view that will decide the success of this endeavor, not your aspirations and high opinion of yourself.  So why don't you at least try to listen to the perspectives the members here, including female members (who all have been in their 20s at some point ), are giving you.  

[Faux Pas]

kens I'm pretty much polar opposite of you. I find the 40+ ladies more attractive and specifically mate/wife material. Sure the young ones are attractive and nice to look at as well but, in essence they are children. I have children their age may be the reason. I'm not judging you and there are several guys on the forum that have married with huge age differences and as far as they say, are good marriages. I'm a few years younger than you BTW.

[Ravens9273]

Some have posted that members here have been harsh to Ken. I will honestly say I will be on top of that list.
However this forum has not even scratched the surface.
Ken and others need to realize that if by chance the billion to one odds this young girl actally married Ken and they lived here in the states, how do you think the general public will react to them?
How many times a day do you think people will call his wife his daughter?
How do you think many will react once told it is his wife?
They will experience many awkward moments with other people in public.

The stress of this alone is enough to break their marriage IF it were to happen.
Believe me they will be alienated by many.

[groovlstk]

SO to be clear Age is not a factor to me.... as long as we are compatible

You might want to amend that sentence to read "SO to be clear Age is not a factor to me... as long as the woman is under 40."

[GoodOlBoy]

...Now since I'll be in Kiev from Sept 24th -October 6th, staying on Khreshatic St next to Independence Sq and hanging out in Obriens. I'll be easy to find if you would like to discuss my feelings about how useless you (Muddy) really are to this site. And of course I can be just about anywhere within driving distance of South Georgia.

Yeah, I've seen this little scenario played out a few times before.

Man (6' 6" about 310 lbs.) shows up in Kiev bar looking for a guy that called him out on the internet. 

Mountain man shouts out: "I'm looking for GregfromGa!!". 

Out of the darkest corner of the bar you hear a "squeaky" voice squealing out: "No one here by that name". 


GOB
 

[BillyB]

I find woman over 40 for the most part unattractive..... and old......

No matter what her age is, she needs to find you attractive and of course your body is going to deteriorate at a much faster rate. Today she may like you, tomorrow is a different story. Most women will tell you a man's intelligence is sexy and the most important thing but the truth is if she's not attracted to you, she won't get close enough to you to admire your brain.


The younger the women, the less likely you'll find one that's attractive to men much older. Your lady has not shown you much physical affection/attention. What's the sense in having a hot body next to you if you can't touch it? Think about how marriage will be with her.

[Vinnvinny]

Ken. Please try to ignore all the age gap related comments. Some men are 10+ years younger biologically, physically and mentally and some are 10+ years older. What I know from personal experience is that most men who go in search of a FSU bride fall into the 10+ years older category hence why such topics are always peppered with similar comments.

Also, consider the comments regarding what your relationship will be like in 10 – 15 years time to be also largely irrelevant. Couples with 2, 3, 4 years age gaps can no more guarantee that they will be still together in 10 – 15 years time than those couples with a much lesser age disparity.

There's also nothing wrong with not finding women so attractive when they have reached middle age. This isn't illegal, your life, do as you chose.

That's the good news.

With regards to 3 kisses in a week then I would have been ‘out of there’ well before the holiday was due to end as I would have come to the conclusion that she didn't fancy me regardless of what she said. As for no sex before marriage then once again I would have laughed and packed my bags. The fact that you are wondering about the “whole sexual attraction thing.......” suggests you’re not quite as savvy as you think.

In answer to your original question, move on.

Good luck in your search.

[GoodOlBoy]

Ken. Please try to ignore all the age gap related comments.

Come on Vinnvinny.

The man is 50 something years old and he wants to have "children" with a 23 year old girl.

What are his children and their school mates suppose to call him......"Grandpa"? 


GOB

[Ravens9273]

Ken. Please try to ignore all the age gap related comments. Some men are 10+ years younger biologically, physically and mentally and some are 10+ years older. What I know from personal experience is that most men who go in search of a FSU bride fall into the 10+ years older category hence why such topics are always peppered with similar comments.

Also, consider the comments regarding what your relationship will be like in 10 – 15 years time to be also largely irrelevant. Couples with 2, 3, 4 years age gaps can no more guarantee that they will be still together in 10 – 15 years time than those couples with a much lesser age disparity.

There's also nothing wrong with not finding women so attractive when they have reached middle age. This isn't illegal, your life, do as you chose.

That's the good news.

With regards to 3 kisses in a week then I would have been ‘out of there’ well before the holiday was due to end as I would have come to the conclusion that she didn't fancy me regardless of what she said. As for no sex before marriage then once again I would have laughed and packed my bags. The fact that you are wondering about the “whole sexual attraction thing.......” suggests you’re not quite as savvy as you think.

In answer to your original question, move on.

Good luck in your search.

Vinny,

You have a beautiful little girl in your avatar.

Since you want to give the advice the age is irrelevant.

When your daugther is 23 years old place her in as the 23 year old in this story with a 51 year old Man.

I can guarantee then you will not be saying what you are now but in fact would be out trying to find Ken and put a hurting on him.

[ScottinCrimea]

Vinvinny, please tell us what your experience is with marriages with large age gaps, both the short term and the long term eventualities?  I'm curious because you seem to feel that you are an expert on the subject whose advice should be heeded more than any other.

ken1958, we are the same age.  My wife is 36 and if you saw her picture you would find her more attractive than any of the 23 year olds you are chasing.  Add to that her education and her maturity and there's just no comparison. My youngest daughter is 23 years old and I can't imagine being attracted to someone that agee based on anything other than physical traits.

My wife and I  have a 15 year age gap and I can tell you from my own experience and that of others I know that the age gap, even 15 years, IS an issue, in many ways beyond what most would think.  Anyone who claims otherwise is either too early in the relationship to have had to deal with it yet or in denial.  Eventually it catches up with everyone. When your girl says it isn't an issue, this means that she either hasn't thought about it yet or doesn't see it as an issue because she doesn't see any long term relationship.  The correct response would have been, "Yes, it is an issue and we need to find ways to deal with it."

By your responses, I sense that you feel you have worked hard all of your life, feel you are now successful and deserve to reward yourself with a hot young wife and a son.  You are looking for a trophy to top off your little pile of accomplishments.  the statement that says you don't find anyone over 40 attractive tells me that your priority is physical attraction and you are willing to sacrifice the internal characteristics of a woman for the external ones.

You certainly have every right to find the wife you want, but as the saying goes, "be careful what you wish for".

[groovlstk]

Vinny, I know you mentioned earlier you have a rather large age gap. How long have you been married and living with your wife, and what advice can you give others in dealing with this issue on a day-to-day basis?

Also, consider the comments regarding what your relationship will be like in 10 – 15 years time to be also largely irrelevant. Couples with 2, 3, 4 years age gaps can no more guarantee that they will be still together in 10 – 15 years time than those couples with a much lesser age disparity.

This is absolutely ridiculous. Men in this pursuit tend to rationalize the risks when they're about to do something really foolish by citing divorce statistics among the general population. The only thing missing is a mention of Michael Douglas' or Donald Trump's "successful" marriages or a story about a distant relative who married his neighbor's 30-years-younger daughter two generations ago in exchange for a cow and a few chickens, with the underlying assumpting being "they did it, so can I!" 

One thing that has become abundantly clear to me since I joined this site years ago is that men become wise in many ways as they age, but in matters of the heart most are still teenage boys and absolutely powerless to deny a pretty face.

[tim 360]

kens1958,  Slow down and take a deep breath.  What agencies are you using/paying to hook-up with these various girls???  Please don't believe all the the agency progaganda and poopka.  Honestly I think most members here are trying to give you good advice.  If you came for validation or mass approval you prolly came to the wrong place.  Personally, I wish you good luck and could care less about why you feel you need a very much younger female.  And you are going to need alot of luck.  Most guys do want a younger female.  Ya ever see any guys sayin', "Yeah! I'll take the the lady who is 20 years older than me.  I want the old one"  Nothing wrong with a younger female,  but 28 years (23 vs 51) is way on the high side, dontcha think?  Anyway, it is you who gets to pay for your little fantasy, not me.

Now you will find some beautiful young girls on some agency websites and some of them easily make $2-3K per month of of the various "older guys" who come to visit them.  The good ones keep a few guys on the string.  Knew one guy who spent over $10K (coats, clothes, trips, computers, etc) on a 24 year old girl in a couple months and guess what?  He was 41 and completely in love.  She would only give him a peck on the cheek.  Know why?  Because she told him she would not have sex until she was married.  She was saving herself, God bless her soul.  Such a chaste girl he later found had no problem having sex with her hometown boys though.  Hope you are starting to get the picture.  Good luck!

[mies]

I'll stir this discussion a bit. IMHO - "no sex before marriage" is a valid argument. If I were this girl I would not have sex with a foreign guy whom i met just about 1 week ago, and who (i know) is meeting other women. Maybe he has some VDs, maybe he has AIDS, maybe he's a sex-tourist and just trying to get his next trophy - who knows?
There should be a line drawn somewhere. If she has sex with this guy - why not having sex with all other guys who may be interested in corresponding with her and meeting her? And what she will be called if she will sleep with every foreign guy?
On the other hand - it is understood that Ken expects her to sleep with him and not with other guys. But why this girl should grant him exclusive rights? He didn't propose anything serious for her, they know each other for very little time. I totally support her on the choice not having sex with him.
as for not showing affection - let's talk how the affection should be showed. :-) what do you think? What would be the good way this girl can show her affection to Ken without actually having sex with him?

 

[GoodOlBoy]

What would be the good way this girl can show her affection to Ken without actually having sex with him?

As Bill (Clinton) would say..."How about we do the Monica"?  :evil:

After all......It's not really sex Hillary!


GOB

[Misha]

If I were this girl I would not have sex with a foreign guy whom i met just about 1 week ago, and who (i know) is meeting other women.

Yes, but would you also tell the guy that you won't have sex before marriage and don't even want to talk of marriage for at least a year  :evil:

But why this girl should grant him exclusive rights? He didn't propose anything serious for her

How can he propose something serious when she doesn't want to talk of marriage for a year? I am not saying he should get engaged in the first week, but I find it odd that a woman say such a thing to a guy that really turned her fancy  :evil:

What would be the good way this girl can show her affection to Ken without actually having sex with him?

You know when a woman is into you, even if there is no sex. You know by the way she looks at you, you know based on the way that she stands around you, you know by her body languages, you simply know.

[mies]

Yes, but would you also tell the guy that you won't have sex before marriage and don't even want to talk of marriage for at least a year  :evil:

yes - probably this is what i'd tell him. I may possibly change my opinion, but in the beginning - this is what i'd say.

How can he propose something serious when she doesn't want to talk of marriage for a year? I am not saying he should get engaged in the first week, but I find it odd that a woman say such a thing to a guy that really turned her fancy  :evil:

we do not know the exact wording of that dialogue. And what followed what - sex discussion, or marriage discussion, and in which form Ken talked to her about marriage. I would think that he did not talk to her about marriage directly. And for a hypothetical questions - people tend to give hypothetical answers. Let's say I am asked "how much time will you need to marry a person" i will reply "about a year will be enough to learn the person, and i do not have sex before marriage".
If the guy asks me "when will you be ready to marry me?" my answer can be very different. In a range from "never" to "now?"

You know when a woman is into you, even if there is no sex. You know by the way she looks at you, you know based on the way that she stands around you, you know by her body languages, you simply know.

you know it, i know it. We do not know if Ken knows it well enough. Since he is asking a question - he was not sure whether he understood her non-verbal communication. I have also met quite many men who were completely misinterpreting the signals from women. Some were driven away by female "coldness" while woman was totally into them, and some - were believing that woman is burning with desire while she felt and acted like a snowqueen. go figure.

[Vinnvinny]

Steady on 'chaps'. If we all held exactly the same views there would be very little to interest us on these forums. 

Come on Vinnvinny.

The man is 50 something years old and he wants to have "children" with a 23 year old girl.

What are his children and their school mates suppose to call him......"Grandpa"? 


GOB

Whilst I don’t agree with your one size fits all logic you have taken the argument to a different aspect from the points I raised. Not every 60 year old father of a 10 year old will be mistaken for a Grandpa although I accept the vast majority will probably be. However, this has nothing to do with the Mother's age as if she was 45 then the Father and child would look exactly the same. 

Vinny,

You have a beautiful little girl in your avatar.

Since you want to give the advice the age is irrelevant.

When your daugther is 23 years old place her in as the 23 year old in this story with a 51 year old Man.

I can guarantee then you will not be saying what you are now but in fact would be out trying to find Ken and put a hurting on him.

It's not my daughter but I do have 3 and if any of them started dating 51 year olds when they are 23 then I would support them 100% but with the obvious caveats.

Vinvinny, please tell us what your experience is with marriages with large age gaps, both the short term and the long term eventualities?  I'm curious because you seem to feel that you are an expert on the subject whose advice should be heeded more than any other.

Married to a Hungarian lady for 15 years, 12 yrs difference. Lived with a Czech lady for 4 years, 17 years difference. Dating a Ukraine lady for past 18 months, 23 years difference. In between those I dated an English lady for 9 months, 16 years difference. Non of the past relationships failed because of age differences regardless of what you might tell me. I don’t feel that I am an expert on anything but I have learned over the years that everyone and every couple is different and people often confuse opinion with fact.

My wife and I  have a 15 year age gap and I can tell you from my own experience and that of others I know that the age gap, even 15 years, IS an issue, in many ways beyond what most would think. 

Couldn’t agree with you more Scott as for most it will be a problem.

Vinny, I know you mentioned earlier you have a rather large age gap. How long have you been married and living with your wife, and what advice can you give others in dealing with this issue on a day-to-day basis?

I am not married to her but before you say it, I’ve never murdered anyone either but that doesn’t stop me from giving my own opinion on the subject. If you have issues on a day to day basis regarding age then my advice would be to divorce and next time you look then find someone much older as it aint for you. Also, middle aged guys shouldn’t bother looking at profiles of ladies under 27.

One thing that has become abundantly clear to me since I joined this site years ago is that men become wise in many ways as they age, but in matters of the heart most are still teenage boys and absolutely powerless to deny a pretty face.

Most of the evidence in this thread suggests completely the opposite.

I'll stir this discussion a bit. IMHO - "no sex before marriage" is a valid argument. If I were this girl I would not have sex with a foreign guy whom i met just about 1 week ago, and who (i know) is meeting other women. Maybe he has some VDs, maybe he has AIDS, maybe he's a sex-tourist and just trying to get his next trophy - who knows?
There should be a line drawn somewhere. If she has sex with this guy - why not having sex with all other guys who may be interested in corresponding with her and meeting her? And what she will be called if she will sleep with every foreign guy?
On the other hand - it is understood that Ken expects her to sleep with him and not with other guys. But why this girl should grant him exclusive rights? He didn't propose anything serious for her, they know each other for very little time. I totally support her on the choice not having sex with him.
as for not showing affection - let's talk how the affection should be showed. :-) what do you think? What would be the good way this girl can show her affection to Ken without actually having sex with him?

 

ken1958 didn’t state he was trying/wishing to have sex with her during their holiday; he only expressed concern that she only kissed him 3 times and that she said there would be no sex before marriage.

Each to their own but for me compatibility between the sheets is a very important part of a relationship and I sure wouldn’t commit myself to marriage until such compatibility has been established. I bet ken’s girl would try on a $20 dress before she buys it yet she is allegedly prepared to marry a guy without sleeping with him first. I can only presume that the red flag is so big that it's covering his eyes. 

[GQBlues]

Fairly interesting discussion folks are having here. Certainly this topic went way beyond what Ken originally shared. So be it...enough have been laid out for him and it seem Ken had already made up his mind.

No opinion or advice from me other than wish all concerned much luck and good health.

On the flip side of this: Which future holds brighter for a typical 23 year old Ukrainian woman with a child living in Ukraine is these days. Considering we are not speaking of exception, but rather in generalities. Will her life and her child have a better future/opportunity with a 25 year old Ukranian man living in Ukraine who honestly loves her, OR, a 51 year old American (westerner) who lives in the US (or Europe) who honestly loves her? Any thoughts and why?

( I'm not inciting, promoting, advocating, or instigating any type of shouting or flamefest)?

[Vinnvinny]

On the flip side of this: Which future holds brighter for a typical 23 year old Ukrainian woman with a child living in Ukraine is these days. Considering we are not speaking of exception, but rather in generalities. Will her life and her child have a better future/opportunity with a 25 year old Ukranian man living in Ukraine who honestly loves her, OR, a 51 year old American (westerner) who lives in the US (or Europe) who honestly loves her? Any thoughts and why?

Good question! I believe it would all depend upon the 3 individual persons in your example. Sometimes the answer would be the 51 year old westerner and sometimes it would be the 25 year old Ukrainian man. This is not an exact science.

[Misha]

You know it, i know it. We do not know if Ken knows it well enough.

And, there is the rub as Shakespeare would say. Something tells me that Ken wants to believe it, but deep down has his doubts as he is here asking questions.