Nice American Man wondering about his relationship with Ukraine woman

[Misha]

maybe I just paid for a tour guide....

$20,000 for a tour guide  :selfharm: I am sorry, but you really seem intent on justifying unjustifiable behavior. As they saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions...

[Shadow]

Ken the good thing is that you are not bitter about what happened and decided that whatever you gave was from your heart without obligations.

However in a developing relationship there are many signs that show a woman has no real interest, and I feel you have been ignoring them more than once.

I hope that from your experiences you learn enough not to repeat your mistakes.
No woman will refuse a gift, and as long as you give there will be takers.

But the important thing is that you should learn to find a woman that loves you as much as you love her. That requires to be careful until the right moment, and not to blind her with your money.

[JR]

30 seconds? It took you that long?

My google search took 0.35 seconds for ten pages of results. Ken, Ken, Ken...you're leaving an awfully large footprint across cyber-space

[JR]

 I don't know how you can be more convincing.
"-I am buying tickets for the end of this month!
-please don't
- but it's going to be great - we can spend time together!
- no, sorry I can't. I am not able to spend time with you.
- It will be great!
- No. Sorry. I will not be able to meet with you. I am busy. I spend most days in uni or studying
- that's no problem - I can stay by your side while you will be studying
- no. that will not work
- i can just stay with you in the library while you will be studying
- no. I cannot do it. I do not have time now to spend with you.
- I just bought tickets!"

I got that the first time thru. You were perfectly understandable. How could anyone NOT understand your clear, pointed "no?"  Weak, insecure individuals, that's how.

[JR]

Take condoms and you're a horney old bastard.

Don't take condoms and you're a thoughtless old bastard.

[Gator]

After reviewing Ken's background, his story certainly seems authentic.

He has come to RWD and bared his soul, admitting to his weaknesses.  Few men have the courage to do this.   Most of us could have been kinder.  Almost all of us could have been more helpful.

Many of us kicked him.  He deserved some kicking,  yet enough is enough, especially when he is already down for the count.

Ken is determined to go to Ukraine again.  Let us try to help him make this trip interesting, fun and productive. 

My advice is that he meet many women and date as many 35-45 yo women as possible.  In fact, I think he should not date anyone below 30 so as he will not be distracted.  Perhaps his indifference to the 35+ crowd will allow him to judge a woman based on her inner qualities.  That would be enlightening to him. 

[Gator]

Mies,

Thank you for elaborating about your encounters with crazy men.  You are a "heartbreaker," although I don't think you were heartless.   The gifts you received were small in value, yet valuable in sentiment.  You should have accepted them, especially if you are being generous too.

The mere fact that you reciprocated with a gift could easily be misread by many Western men that you were eager.

I suppose some of your admirers read that beautiful women don't receive a lot of attention and all a man has to do is show up.  Someone should have told them that the second part to showing up is to act normal.

Someday please tell us what was different about your husband.

[Sculpto]

After reviewing Ken's background, his story certainly seems authentic.

He has come to RWD and bared his soul, admitting to his weaknesses.  Few men have the courage to do this.   Most of us could have been kinder.  Almost all of us could have been more helpful.

Many of us kicked him.  He deserved some kicking,  yet enough is enough, especially when he is already down for the count.

Ken is determined to go to Ukraine again.  Let us try to help him make this trip interesting, fun and productive. 

My advice is that he meet many women and date as many 35-45 yo women as possible.  In fact, I think he should not date anyone below 30 so as he will not be distracted.  Perhaps his indifference to the 35+ crowd will allow him to judge a woman based on her inner qualities.  That would be enlightening to him. 

Gator.. you are a very wise man.  I regret having ever argued with you. 

I have connected Ken with a reliable terp/guide in Lugansk.  I can't help him for the other places he intends to go.

[KenC]

Mies,
I just read your long reply to Gator.  I admit to skipping it yesterday.

I would like to thank you for sharing your side of this process with us.  It was very enlightening to me to hear the downside of being a popular woman in this process.  I know we (I) make jokes about how it is not a difficult position to be in with lots of men fawning over a good looking and desirable woman, but there really are negative consequences when that woman is a good and moral woman as you.  In my opinion there just is not enough of people in this world with your good character.  Kudos to you!
 
KenC
(Please just keep in mind that you are the exception and not the rule)

[mies]

Thank you KenC  

The gifts you received were small in value, yet valuable in sentiment.

I know - I always value this sort of gifts most. When i feel down i can take some useless tiny gift - a little plastic souvenir, or a hand-written postcard from a friend, look at it and feel better ))

[kens1958]

Mies

Thank you.... your story is the most valuable thing posted on this subject ...

It is beautiful

[Gator]

Mies,

Beautiful story; many would call it destiny.  Thank you for sharing. 

Those men who metaphorically would sleep at your door --- they never had a chance.

My wife tells a story that has some similarities. 

[Gator]

Mostly, the logic presented by the ladies who post here is non-existent.  Despite the groveling by many of the guys here to kiss the butts of the lady posters, the posts by the ladies are virtually worthless in trying to be fair or give advice. 

The only worthwhile thing that comes from them is to demonstrate to the guys just how hopeless it is when the women will go to any lengths to try to support the idea that it is all the man's fault and that it is completely fair for the FSU women to scam men when the opportunity presents itself.

There is a lot of education in the posts from the ladies . . . just not the education you think you are getting.

Mars,

You wrote this in response to Mies's posts a couple of days ago.  Still feel that way after her more recent posts?  Again, you have given us an example of the appropriateness of your name.

[CallMeSasha]

Thank you KenC  
I know - I always value this sort of gifts most. When i feel down i can take some useless tiny gift - a little plastic souvenir, or a hand-written postcard from a friend, look at it and feel better ))
I can tell it now. This probably isn't what you expect to hear, and sorry if this does not sound too romantic. My husband happens to look very much alike to my playboy grandfather, and my father-in-law - looks the same as my grandfather looked when he was younger. At the same time - my husband acts and cares about me like my other grandfather (who was also very handsome but not a playboy) - who was my favorite family member - very caring and loving. When i was a kid - I used to tell my parents "I will marry my grandpa when I grow up", my parents told me "but he is already married to grandma". Then after some thinking i responded to them "then i will marry a man who will cook like grandpa". My grandfather was cooking for me, taking care that i was dressed properly for weather, checking that i wear shoes when floor was cold in the house, and so on. My husband pretty much does the same - he cooks for me and feeds me, makes sure i am warm, and checks that i wear comfortable shoes. My grandpa always gave me the feeling of security, and my husband gives me same feeling.
And finally - probably the setting of our meeting, and mind scheme of "meeting of soulmates". Since I was a baby my mom used to tell me story how she met my father. It was a wedding of my uncle, and she was sitting in the crowd of other 100 of guests in a large hall. And when the music started - some guy crossed the room and invited her to dance. Then few months later same guy proposed to her. and 2 years after their first meeting i was born. When i fist met my husband - it was a large dinner after the scientific conference. Large hall, hundreds of people. And then in the end of dinner music started, and some guy crossed the room and invited me to dance. It appeared that we met once before, but we never talked until that dance. When he was walking towards me, and the moment he stood in front of me - this view triggered my pre-conditioned memory, his image perfectly fit into "my future husband" scheme in my mind and that was it. Plus he is the only person i feel perfectly comfortable with. No one else, even my closest relatives meet this criteria. I guess this all makes him different from other men, and unique.

beautiful story, you are so lucky to experience so much love in your life - many of us aren't so fortunate as you.

if i were you i'd write a book on your memoirs

[mies]

Thank you :-)
I'm happy you liked the story.

[tim 360]

Thanks for posting your story Mies.  I don't think most men on RWD realize how some girls/ladies can get pestered by guys who definitely have some inner problems.

[ECOCKS]

Well, this is certainly one of the more interesting reads on the site.

As Dan mentioned a week or so ago about another thread, this shows vividly the strength of the site through the diversity of culture, thought and experiences represented on the board.

[kens1958]

Well now the end of the story. After going to Ukraine and dating other girls. Inna contacted me and told me how much she mised me and how from now on she would be totaly honest with me.... after a week of sweetnesss and photos showing her daughter praying I would come back....

I secumed... I jumped on a plane for Kiev.... I told Inna that if she wanted to see me she would have to come to kiev... originaly I had plans to stay a month... Inna asked if she could stay with me the whole time....

I was elated and still in love with Inna..... on my way out of town I droped $1,000 on gifts like a coach purse ect....

I called Inna from the airport before I left ... she told me that the gratest gift she could ever get was to seee me again.
I called her after I landed in Kiev.... she was at the Airport and waiting  for me..... As I walked out of customs... there she was... she came runing to me .. she grabed me and as she looked into my face... she said you look just perfact....
My cab was waiting to take us to our apartment... it was soooo good to see her I could not wait ... I opened my suitcase and began handing out presents......
later I tryed to be romantic... Inna said no she had not showered..... we then went out to get a bite to eat  .. at the restrant Inna informed me that she just wanted to be my friend... and I had a choice ... friendship or nothing....
I desided to except friendship...
for the next week Inna did some crazy things .. like disapearing for a day and night.... I met her best friend in Kiev who took me aside and said... "you are a good man .... do you love troubel.? .. Inna is troubel.... if you do not love troubel you will forget about Inna..." ... Inna coked for us and kept the apartment clean.... brought me to a store wheere she picked out a fur coat... I said no...... the went back the next day and bought it for her...

a couple of days later she brought me shoping again... this time for new boots.....they looked good on her...
at night we would call our friends on skype.... and Inna would explain to them that she was honest with me and she only wanted to be friends....

on the last day I bought her a ticket back to odessa where she had a friend with a taxy waiting.....

I went home a few hours later back to USA...
after getting home she started deleating the email she had set up just to talk with me.... she still says hello on skype   when she wants somthing like money from me......

funny she wanted me to come back and meet her mother and father????

even when she was with me both of her parents were calling.... and the day she disapeared for 24 hours I called her father who told me she was in kiev with me....    

well On the last day I explained to her that I could not tell when she was being honest or when she was lieing....

my bottom line..... Im not even smart enough to figuer any of this out..... but I now know what doese not work ...
I know what it feels like when the girl is not into you.... maybe she tryed ... but could not bring herself to find me atractive enough ......

maybe she was scamming all along.....

maybe the truth is much more simpel or maybe much more complicated....

but now I know that I do not want this...... It is finaly over with Inna... I feel I have clouser..... I hope I did not mess up the waters for the other newbees who will make the trip down romance lane hoping for a fanticy wife who looks like a godes, cooks like a world class cheff and takes care of her man like a servent........

fortunatly I did have some good dates between Inna and I found what it was like when chemistery existed betwen myself and a RW..... it felt just like chemistery between any man and woman from any place in the world.... it is all the same.....

forget the fantacy that is my first step......

Poka Poka friends 

[Ade]

Well now the end of the story. After going to Ukraine and dating other girls. Inna contacted me and told me how much she mised me and how from now on she would be totaly honest with me.... after a week of sweetnesss and photos showing her daughter praying I would come back....

I secumed... I jumped on a plane for Kiev.... I told Inna that if she wanted to see me she would have to come to kiev... originaly I had plans to stay a month... Inna asked if she could stay with me the whole time....

I was elated and still in love with Inna..... on my way out of town I droped $1,000 on gifts like a coach purse ect....

I called Inna from the airport before I left ... she told me that the gratest gift she could ever get was to seee me again.
I called her after I landed in Kiev.... she was at the Airport and waiting  for me..... As I walked out of customs... there she was... she came runing to me .. she grabed me and as she looked into my face... she said you look just perfact....
My cab was waiting to take us to our apartment... it was soooo good to see her I could not wait ... I opened my suitcase and began handing out presents......
later I tryed to be romantic... Inna said no she had not showered..... we then went out to get a bite to eat  .. at the restrant Inna informed me that she just wanted to be my friend... and I had a choice ... friendship or nothing....
I desided to except friendship...
for the next week Inna did some crazy things .. like disapearing for a day and night.... I met her best friend in Kiev who took me aside and said... "you are a good man .... do you love troubel.? .. Inna is troubel.... if you do not love troubel you will forget about Inna..." ... Inna coked for us and kept the apartment clean.... brought me to a store wheere she picked out a fur coat... I said no...... the went back the next day and bought it for her...

a couple of days later she brought me shoping again... this time for new boots.....they looked good on her...
at night we would call our friends on skype.... and Inna would explain to them that she was honest with me and she only wanted to be friends....

on the last day I bought her a ticket back to odessa where she had a friend with a taxy waiting.....

I went home a few hours later back to USA...
after getting home she started deleating the email she had set up just to talk with me.... she still says hello on skype   when she wants somthing like money from me......

funny she wanted me to come back and meet her mother and father????

even when she was with me both of her parents were calling.... and the day she disapeared for 24 hours I called her father who told me she was in kiev with me....    

well On the last day I explained to her that I could not tell when she was being honest or when she was lieing....

my bottom line..... Im not even smart enough to figuer any of this out..... but I now know what doese not work ...
I know what it feels like when the girl is not into you.... maybe she tryed ... but could not bring herself to find me atractive enough ......

maybe she was scamming all along.....

maybe the truth is much more simpel or maybe much more complicated....

but now I know that I do not want this...... It is finaly over with Inna... I feel I have clouser..... I hope I did not mess up the waters for the other newbees who will make the trip down romance lane hoping for a fanticy wife who looks like a godes, cooks like a world class cheff and takes care of her man like a servent........

fortunatly I did have some good dates between Inna and I found what it was like when chemistery existed betwen myself and a RW..... it felt just like chemistery between any man and woman from any place in the world.... it is all the same.....

forget the fantacy that is my first step......

Poka Poka friends 

  Seriously dude, you need to get some therapy or at least start giving away your money to a good cause instead of a lost one.

[KenC]

 :whirling:
WTF?  I'm speechless.
KenC

[GQBlues]

 

I'm still with Jooky on this one...a la Splendid a.k.a. Scott Jay.

[RussianWind]

kens1958 are you real? I need to renew my wardrobe. Do you want a friendship? 

[tim 360]

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."  Albert Einstien

[Mars]

Ken, I need a new wardrobe also.  

But seriously; men like you do tremendous harm to the rest of we men in terms of the expectations that you enable.

[KenC]

Ken, I need a new wardrobe also.  

But seriously; men like you do tremendous harm to the rest of we men in terms of the expectations that you enable.

While I agree that Ken1958 belongs in the Hall of Shame of Suckers, do you really think that it is new news to the women of the fsu that some AM are prone to over gift?  It was common knowledge 11 years ago!  The game hasn't changed.  It still is all up to the character of the woman and the common sense of the man.
KenC