My wife wants to cancel her health insurance and live without it

[groovlstk]

      Couples:  How much do you spend on gifts each year for your FSU vs. other in-laws?

We send flowers on birthdays and gifts for New Year's, but all this totals maybe a few hundred dollars per year.

[Shadow]

      Couples:  How much do you spend on gifts each year for your FSU vs. other in-laws?

Don't count it. If we have money we send gifts. If we have no money we send nothing.

[GoodOlBoy]

We send flowers on birthdays and gifts for New Year's, but all this totals maybe a few hundred dollars per year.

Same exact thing here.

I have a "service" in Omsk that I have been using for years.

Flowers and Champagne and mail a few gifts......that's all.

My "big" gift to Marina's family is sending her home every year to spend time with them.


GOB

[Shadow]

My "big" gift to Marina's family is sending her home every year to visit them.


GOB

Or is the big gift that you do not accompany her ? 

[Journeyman]

Kinda unfair to ask others to intervene in your marriage..

You're doing the right thing by gathering information.. but putting it to good use is strictly your business.

BC,

Maybe you are not understanding my request accurately.  I am not asking others to "intervene" in my marriage.  I can handle it.  I simply need some information to share with my wife -- the perspective of her peers -- other RW.  Examples and persepectives of other Russian/Ukrainian women in particular that would:

(1) demonstrate to her in an authoritative way that her sense of the minimal value of insurance is inaccurate and misplaced in American life -- based upon the experience and understanding that her MORE EXPERIENCED peers (RW) have gathered by living here, and

(2) provide counter-examples to her articulated version of Ukrainian culture.  I agree with certain posters on this thread that my wife cites Ukrainian cultural norms in peculiar ways.  While it is true, it is not out of malice or mischief, but rather due to her limited abilities to understand both the actual underpinnings of her own culture as well as this new American society.  She is a very simple person -- wondful in some ways, difficult in others  -- due to the very small world in which she has lived, and the "terrible certainty" she needs in certain aspects of life to make sense of a world that to her appears often unintelligible.

She is not just new to America -- she is also trying to understand it without the sophistication possessed by the wives of many of the men on this board.  Both she and I have a very large task on our hands getting her educated and acclimated.  The feedback and input that I initially requested could be very helpful.  Once provided, I know very well how to proceed from there, and would need no further assistance on this matter.

I'm still looking forward to input from any RW tuning in.

Journeyman

[Ade]

Bizarre. Really bizarre.

My wife can hardly believe her ears when I read her your posts JM.

Where to begin? Um, well, my wife fully understands the need for health insurance and she thinks your wife is foolhardy at best to contemplate not having any. Even over here in Europe we have "health insurance" payments but we just pay for it out of our salary every month.

Also, all that gift giving BS your wife is spinning really is total BS no matter which way you look at it. It's ludicrous to think her family would expect any gifts from you no matter what your current financial situation, and it's our guess that it's all in her head.

There's so much more that is wrong with her thinking and attitudes. Maybe getting her to join up to one of the Russian women's USA forums would help?

That's it for now - we're off for a quick tour on our mountain bikes.

[Muddy]

AP - Americans would be fined up to $3,800 for failing to buy health insurance under a plan that circulated in Congress on Tuesday as divisions among Democrats undercut President Barack Obama's effort to regain traction on his health care overhaul.

http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJhZ2dhMmgxBF9TAzM5ODMwMTA0MQRnc3RhdGUDMwRwb3MDMgRzZWMDbndfdG9wc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDdGl0bGUEdGFyA25ld3MueWFob28uY29t/SIG=1426dj90u/**http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/rss/topstories/*http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090909/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_health_care_overhaul

[BC]

BC,

Maybe you are not understanding my request accurately.  I am not asking others to "intervene" in my marriage.  I can handle it.  I simply need some information to share with my wife -- the perspective of her peers -- other RW.  Examples and persepectives of other Russian/Ukrainian women in particular that would:

(1) demonstrate to her in an authoritative way that her sense of the minimal value of insurance is inaccurate and misplaced in American life -- based upon the experience and understanding that her MORE EXPERIENCED peers (RW) have gathered by living here, and

(2) provide counter-examples to her articulated version of Ukrainian culture.  I agree with certain posters on this thread that my wife cites Ukrainian cultural norms in peculiar ways.  While it is true, it is not out of malice or mischief, but rather due to her limited abilities to understand both the actual underpinnings of her own culture as well as this new American society.  She is a very simple person -- wondful in some ways, difficult in others  -- due to the very small world in which she has lived, and the "terrible certainty" she needs in certain aspects of life to make sense of a world that to her appears often unintelligible.

She is not just new to America -- she is also trying to understand it without the sophistication possessed by the wives of many of the men on this board.  Both she and I have a very large task on our hands getting her educated and acclimated.  The feedback and input that I initially requested could be very helpful.  Once provided, I know very well how to proceed from there, and would need no further assistance on this matter.

I'm still looking forward to input from any RW tuning in.

Journeyman

Journeyman,

I think I understand.. in a 'been there, done that' kinda way.

Don't forget that a big part of acclimatization is YOUR adjustment and not only hers.

IIRC, our 'discussions' went along the lines of "Honey, If I moved to RU, I would have to trust your decisions until I understood more about life there, the language, etc or?.. (answer obvious) So you'll just have to accept that in the beginning you'll have to trust some of my decisions about living here.."

Also keep an open mind if she comes up with some seemingly ludicrous methods of getting something done.. many times they work out just fine and you will learn from her, sometimes doesn't work out which will give her experiences she needs to go forward.

May sound strange, but sometimes you have to let her make mistakes (against your natural protector instincts)..  Of course the health insurance issue isn't one to try that out on.

[GQBlues]

I appreciate the idea about a lower premium.  Let  me explain my logic on getting her THIS particular plan intially.  I theorized that until my wife was thoroughly "checked out" by some reasonably competent American doctors through some initial exams, tests and blood work, it would probaby be to my/our financial advantage to accept a more expensive policy with VERY good coverage -- just in case she needed that coverage and could slip under whatever limitations there were regarding disclosures and pre-existing conditions.  I think my wife was telling me the truth about her medical health -- to the extent that she knew it from her previous limited visits to the doctors in Ukraine.  Therefore, my initial purchase of a more expensive but expansive policy was for some additional protection for our finances.  I figured that I could change it later if things looked OK.  The complicating factor is, however, coverage for a new baby.  I will be looking into that further when I determine that her health status is likely to be reasonably stable.

Your second question is probably a good topic for a new thread:

      Couples:  How much do you spend on gifts each year for your FSU vs. other in-laws?

Journeyman-

I expected you did do your due diligence in this matter. Pre-existing condition is a slippery slope for any carrier or health programs. You can get a thorough physical exam right now and get your concern taken care of and the rest should take care of itself. I'm just a little skeptical of HMOs and given the choice I favor PPOs much better. But that's just me. Being your wife is in her child bearing years, she should not demand a high premium for coverage.

Preparation for pre-natal care is a valid concern and you are right to plan for it. However, not only is post-natal just as important, the added dependent will also require additional coverage. So I guess what I'm saying is - it'll only get relatively more expensive...

I don't know what ails your wife and why you believe she wont be able to hold a job (no need to answer or explain), but the government have special listings for potential employers specially for these circumstances. If not for the health coverage, but for the added income. Much of these programs fall under the Affirmative Action ordinance. Here is one example of a site that helps in this arena. I'm sure there are many others.

SJ's advice to maybe get your wife to join a FSUW message board (if she hasn't yet already) is a good one. She can go and discuss this issue with other FSUW residing in the US and directly get their opinion instead of it coming from you.

As for the gift giving, with the exception of special circumstances and occasions (holidays, birthdays, etc..), we do not send gifts at all. Right now her folks are self sufficient and assures us that even financial aid is unnecessary.

Good luck.

[Shadow]

(2) provide counter-examples to her articulated version of Ukrainian culture.  I agree with certain posters on this thread that my wife cites Ukrainian cultural norms in peculiar ways.  While it is true, it is not out of malice or mischief, but rather due to her limited abilities to understand both the actual underpinnings of her own culture as well as this new American society.  She is a very simple person -- wondful in some ways, difficult in others  -- due to the very small world in which she has lived, and the "terrible certainty" she needs in certain aspects of life to make sense of a world that to her appears often unintelligible.

Some input from MrsShadow : the first thing her parents asked when moving to Holland was if she would get health insuracne there.
As MrsShadow is from Moscow and her parents are both doctor this might be a different case as your experience.

Input from me:
You are making up excuses for her. First you blame it on 'Ukrainian culture' and when proven inaccuratethe blame goes to 'innocent misrepresentation'.
Do not let 'cultural differences' or 'lack of education' be the excuse for things you should take as her character.
If she is as you try to point out stupid, uneducated and fidning her social status with her family more important as her health and family finances then she must have something that makes up for all of this...
Sorry if I overtake on characterization of her, as I do not know her and just relay on your own posts to get a description...

[Faux Pas]

Journeyman

Just food for thought:

Sometimes it is necessary to step up as the man of the house and the breadwinner and make a solid final decision.  You'll have to trust your instincts here because you obviously can't trust hers. Should something catastrophic occur it will be the family finances and more specifically you that suffers from it financially which in turn will also affect her.

I know that advice might sound chauvinistic to some but it would be my same advice to her if she were the breadwinner. She has every right to share input on the family finances but you have no right to let her make a decision that could ultimately devastate the family.

Chin up and foot down. If you make the decision that you need it, then do it. Gifts to the family will have to be based on what you are capable of providing. Sounds like you've got a bit of a spoiled princess there which is fine as long as it's realistic. No health insurance in this day and age is unacceptable when it can be avoided.

[BillyB]

Can't agree with that.   Everybody needs at least catastrophic coverage at a minimum.  Even rich people buy catastrophic coverage as it is a "good deal" for them.  

I'm 39 and probably avg under $100 a year in medical bills. You pay $4000 a year for your wife. Since 18 that would be $84,000 in my adult life. If I have a car accident, I'm covered, if I get hurt at work, I'm covered, if I go bankrupt and go poor, I'll get medical treatment for catastrophic injuries regardless. If i die, my beneficiaries are going to get over $200,000 from my life insurance and they'll pay for my funeral. Insurance is a waste of money for most people but a savior for a few.

In a way, you can multiply that $4000 a year to your benefit many times over when your young and less likely to have major medical problems instead of buying medical insurance which overlapping other insurance in other areas of your life. Of course not many young people are smart enough to invest. For a single guy like me, it's less risky. For a family that is planning on a baby soon, then insurance is practically needed.

JM, your wife is questioning your wisdom in handling financial affairs. You are questioning her thoughts on handling this. This is not good. Maybe she's wrong, maybe you're wrong. Maybe you're both wrong. Whatever it is, you two need to get back on the same page on financial issues or it's going to hurt your marriage. Things go downhill when one spouse starts to think the other is dumb.

[Misha]

Insurance is a waste of money for most people but a savior for a few.

The problem is that you do not know who are the people who will be saved. Insurance works on the law of large numbers: you spread the risk over large numbers of people and minimize what people will pay while ensuring a healthy profit. Let's take, for example, fire insurance. Most houses will never burn down, but if your house happens to go up in flames, you will lose a large sum of money. What you would save by not paying for your home insurance will never cover the full cost of the house. However, if you could get thousands of people to chip in what they pay for home insurance and then pool the money, then you could cover the cost of the few houses that are likely to burn down in any given year. It has nothing to do with being prudent with money or investing what you save, it is about spreading risk out over very large numbers of people.

[GoodOlBoy]

A little

The insurance companies down here in Florida were trying to pull a fast one on everybody.

Allstate, Geico, etc. (all the heavy hitters) were all trying to leave the state and sell only car insurance here (easy fast buck).

They don't want to write hurricane insurance policies anymore (especially in South Florida).

The legislature is supposedly doing something (or has done something) in Tallahassee to "fix" the problem.

They are proposing that if you sell car insurance in the state of Florida, you also have to offer hurricane insurance.

This keeps those greedy insurance companies from swooping in and taking the cream (easy money) off the top and leaving somebody else to hold the bag for hurricane insurance (raising premium rates).

Just another reason why I moved from my house into a condo.

Hurricane insurance for my condo in N. Miami Beach is "dirt" cheap, compared to the hurricane insurance premiums from my previous home in South Miami.

And flood insurance.....well, I live on the 12th floor.


GOB


Pic's from GoodOlBoy's treehouse in Sunny Isles Beach, FL:

[Vaughn]

AP - Americans would be fined up to $3,800 for failing to buy health insurance....

Muddy - Journeyman clearly highlighted his request that this thread not deteriorate into the politics
of health care, and I fully concur - as have all other posters up to this point. Please refrain from
attempting to misdirect the thrust of this discussion. Thank you.

[ECOCKS]

Question #1:   Would your wife think and act similarly as my wife regarding insurance -- that is, that I am simply "throwing money in the garbage"?

Answer (from wife): No.

Question #2:   If not, what would YOUR WIFE say to my wife about this situation after living in America for several years (and understanding the situation here) to help my wife better understand the huge need for a family to have proper health insurance in America (and could she write it in the Russian language for my wife to read)?

Answer (from wife): This is America, not Ukraine. You need insurance, don't be stupid.

I would also invite the Russian/Ukrainian ladies on this board to respond to these questions.  

Response (from wife): She was laughing throughout the description of the gifts and claiming this was traditional even despite tough times. Particularly she liked Misha's comment that you have become the family's "cash cow" over these last few years.

She also cannot believe (as in her disbelief, not calling you a liar) that she is completely unwilling to attend school in an effort to find employment and learn more about this world she lives in. She also said this is a great example of where to use the English word, "inexplicable".

[Muddy]

Muddy - Journeyman clearly highlighted his request that this thread not deteriorate into the politics
of health care, and I fully concur - as have all other posters up to this point. Please refrain from
attempting to misdirect the thrust of this discussion. Thank you.

Are you like this at home too?

[Vaughn]

Muddy, when you have something positive to contribute, forewarn me - and I'll
start preparing a backyard barbeque. You can be the guest of honor.

[Aloe]

Question #1:   Would your wife think and act similarly as my wife regarding insurance -- that is, that I am simply "throwing money in the garbage"

I think insurance is very useful, but there is no way in hell we could afford to pay 4k a year for that, thats one fourth of all our yearly income, so if WE had to pay 4k a year with our current income, id also say to hell with it. However if we could afford it, then id be all up for it (thank god we only pay 40 euro a year for my insurance). A situation where it is either health insurance or presents for family, keeping the insurance would win for me. Your wife's words that she would die of embarrassment if you did not send annual presents for her family are very disturbing, she wants to show off to her family, thats all. She didnt say her family needs the help, she says she would die of embarrassment. So imo, cut the presents, it is not good to send presents to show off, and that is all she is doing. I had a friend from the USA whose family member had a baby born prematurely, and it cost like a million dollars to keep it in an incubator for 2 months so it can develop until the stage where it can survive, what does your wife think of that? Will she let her baby die, because she doesnt want insurance? Look up the current costs for premature birth or just leading the pregnancy, im sure its much more than 4k to lead a perfectly healthy pregnancy, let alone if there are any complications, and show the numbers to her. Look up how many percent of pregnancies or newborns have complications. She cant argue the actual figures. Show her the costs for different things, for example different emergencies, like broken leg or whatever, the more the better. When she sees the "price-list", maybe then she will understand.
Also it is total BS about presents, i dont send any presents to my family, we could afford it if we really tried, but it is definitely not expected to send any presents. It is up to you if you want to and can afford it, nobody expects presents if you have to make sacrifices to afford them. Again, your wife just wants to show off how well off she is, and not help her family, so...
Oh and i did try "Other men do this and that ... " line on my husband once. He looked at me and said: "so go marry them then", that was like a cold bucket of water, i think it made me appreciate my husband even more, because i thought of all the reasons i wouldnt marry the guys i knew, who do those things, cuz they lack in so many other "departments", and it reminded me why i married my husband, and i definitely wont say that phrase again

[SMS60]

Oh and i did try "Other men do this and that ... " line on my husband once. He looked at me and said: "so go marry them then", that was like a cold bucket of water, i think it made me appreciate my husband even more, because i thought of all the reasons i wouldnt marry the guys i knew, who do those things, cuz they lack in so many other "departments", and it reminded me why i married my husband, and i definitely wont say that phrase again

Aloe, this is so sweet coming from a women. There are many men who dont know that being the "over the top nice guy" will cause women to lose respect for them. When they become jellyfish and lose their self respect the women loses her interest.

Your little story is very refreshing.

[dobradavid]

I obtained a very good health insurance policy for her as my wife even before she arrived in the US so that she had coverage the instant she landed (we were married in Ukraine).

Thinking of rining the MIL over at some point to see her grandchildren. Can you share some info about your "very good policy"? 

[Blues Fairy]

Just saw this thread.

Journeyman, have you had your wife properly diagnosed by a professional doctor yet? 
Just making sure.

To your wife: tell her if she wants to have a baby, she'll be better off paying 4K for insurance than 10-15K for out-of-pocket expenses (in case of a healthy, unproblematic pregnancy and healthy baby).  BTW how is she going to raise the kid, considering her "handicap"?

[JR]

my wife needs a STRONG LECTURE

My wife wife relies on authority figures to know what to do.

You need to give her that lecture. YOU need to become THE MAN and stop being THE MAT!

Everyone on earth understands that when tough times come calling gifting and such has to be adjusted. Stop thinking of it in a set dollar amount and start thinking of it as a percentage.

It sounds to me that your wife has been hiding behind her "disabilities." I have seen people with far worse circumstances than you described participate in the financial well being of the family. She can go to school now, get an education and start pulling the plow along side you. That is the one thing I wish I had done differently with my ex. GQ has made some very good points about why it was important for him to have his wife be able to take care of herself financially should he stop being around for some unforeseen reason. I didn't put my foot down firmly enough with that and it costs in many ways.

And I second that the the requirements of gifting in the FSU is BS. If it is a custom why isn't she gifting to your family? TOTAL BS! There is nothing wrong with you doing what you can, when you can but if "your family" is suffering setbacks then it is time to circle the wagons.

You and her are now your own nuclear family. That is where yours and her priorities need to be. She needs to get on board the "The Nuclear Family Train."

Sit her down and show her the math. Show her what will happen to the "family plans" if she gets hospitalized due to a car accident and spends a few weeks in the hospital without insurance. Then stop debating her. She won't listen to you or to anyone else but you have to try. I would put off the thoughts of children until this gets sorted out. Most likely it will get very ugly, prepare yourself for it.

[DKMM]

Sounds to me like this guy is getting manipulated by his wife who clearly does not respect him.  This doesn't seem to be about health insurace, this is about her priorities to her entitlement: money & gifts to her family.  If the husband is not numero uno in his wife's eyes, he's toast.

[Mars]

Sounds to me like this guy is getting manipulated by his wife who clearly does not respect him.  This doesn't seem to be about health insurace, this is about her priorities to her entitlement: money & gifts to her family.  If the husband is not numero uno in his wife's eyes, he's toast.

DKMM, take a look at the Married thread; who comes first spouse or children.  Here the focus is spouse or her family.  Maybe some commonalities.