Difference in perceptions

[Aloe]

It is amazing, how differently people can percieve the same thing. I have been so happy with my husband for the past month-month and a half, but today we have a minor arguement. I go to school in a city that i have to take a train to reach (and then walk for 25 minutes from the station to the school or take a bus), but i saw at our local station some kind of express bus that goes to that city. So on the way home i ask my hubby if we can look up the buses that go from our local town to the big city, because i saw that bus at the station and maybe it passes by my school (which is close to a highway), but he tells me all the buses go to the station and do not pass my school, because they dont use the highway. I say again, i saw some express bus, so maybe it passes through the highway, lets look it up. He tells me he has never heard of that bus, at this point i start to get a little annoyed, considering he hasnt used any buses in like 5 years so it could be a new bus, so i ask again, lets look it up, he refuses, so i raise my voice a little and say "just look it up, whats the problem!", i really hate narrow mindedness, that is what it looked like to me, i dont understand why he wouldnt acknowledge that this bus could be new and he doesnt necesserily know everything about the buses, so why not look it up, especially since it takes only like 30 seconds? So he gets all silent, then tells me to look it up myself (very nice, considering i dont speak any of the local languages, but i dont reply anything to that), we get home in silence, then i come up to him and say, lets talk... What is the problem? And he says that i constantly blablabla, and i always complain. This is just unbelievable, cuz i have been so happy lately, and no matter how hard i think, i do not remember complaining, so i ask him to give me an example. So he gives me an example... Before all this happened i mentioned that we need more clothes hangers, he asked in reply, what was wrong with the hangers that his mom gave us, i told him that they are old and no matter how hard i scrubbed, i couldnt get dirt off them. So this is the example he gave me of my complaining. I see this exact episode as me answering a question. He asked what was wrong with those hangers, i answered his question, how is that complaining? Another example he gave me, how i was unhappy that i need to pay 20 euro to receive packages that my mom sent me; i find it ridiculous that i have to pay considering my mom already paid a lot of money to have them shipped, so thats what i said, but i think in this case this is a completely rightful complaint, but it wasnt like i made a big deal out of it, i just said it sucks. Thats all the examples he gave me, he said he cant give any more examples because he just doesnt listen to me anymore when i complain. As for his other claim that i "blablabla" all the time, that is just bs, i am always the quiet one in any gathering of people, and i use my phone maybe once a week, and i havent used our home phone even once,  but apparently he thinks i talk to much.
He also said i am ungrateful, and as an example he gave me this episode from today: I cooked some food the other day, and there was enough only for one person to eat today, so i asked him to buy me a kebap to eat, because i was saving the home cooked meal for him (because before this, he said he would take a home cooked meal over any junk food any time), so he buys the kebap, and at home he wanted to eat the kebap, cuz his meal wasnt warmed up (i cant predict when exactly he will come home, so i only warm it up when he is already home), i make a playful unhappy noise about him taking my food (im hungry too!), so he puts it down and waits for his meal, i immediately feel really bad about it so i ask him, is it ok that i didnt let you have the kebap? He says, its totally fine, ok. So this is the example he gave me, saying im ungrateful. Because he "got me the kebap, paid for it, and brought it home" and i didnt let him have it. I guess it doesnt cross his mind, that i sat there hungry all evening, saving the good food for him, but whatever, what i dont understand is why he wouldnt tell me that it wasnt ok, as soon as i asked if it was ok?
I am just amazed at how differently people can perceive things. I was so happy the past month, i really thought it was so amazing and wonderful, what we have, but today it is all just ruined, i dont know what to think, why would he accuse me of such horrible things, and i feel that i do none of the things he accused me of, this is just so awful.
It sounded like he is really unhappy with me, i just feel like such a failure and a fool, how could i be happy, while he is going around thinking these things about me, and how could i not feel it? Why is he with me at all, if he thinks im all those horrible things? Im too scared to ask him this question, because he might think i wanna break up, i am just so sad; i really thought we were so happy, now i just feel stupid for thinking that.

[Gator]

I don't want to belittle this; however, this seems like a young lovers' quarrel.  Such happens.  What is important is to resolve this and resolve it productively.  Please recognize that neither of you is 100% correct.  Some of his concerns may be valid, so respect that.  Hopefully he will respect your concerns.

Keep in mind that part of your adjustment to your new life is his adjustment to you.

My suggestion:  make a nice meal tomorrow, have a little wine and  ask him if everything is okay at work (or with his family).  When he asks why you ask, just say he does not seem the same these days, so you were wondering if he was having a bad couple of days (people are allowed to have a bad day). 

Say that you love him and you want to make sure everything is fine with him.  Ask if there is anything you can do to help.

He may ask what is different about him.  You then can mention everything that you are telling us.  How this is not how he behaved when you first arrived.

He will react.  I don't know how; however, you will get a reaction.

Don't submit, as if you would. Try to reach some sort of win-win solution.

I suggest that whatever happens, within reason, some warm and passionate lovemaking is definitely needed.

[Aloe]

how am i supposed to be sweet to him tomorrow if last things he said to me today is that i blablabla and complain all the time and that im ungrateful, at which i went to shower crying and he went to bed

[Aloe]

it sounds like huge lack of communication, but now cuz we didnt finish the conversation, i dont know what to do tomorrow, id really hate to be one of those couples where people are upset and dont talk to each other for days

[JR]

Aloe, both of your lives have changed dramatically. Your's more so but his too. Much of what you two are going thru can be attributed to growing pains. The pains of growing in a new life together.
He should not make any fuss about the kebab. The kebab is not the issue, there is something else. He is probably missing his freedom. Try to give him time.
On another note: I can remember my ex-wife wanting me to call the Immigration office to check on the progress of her mom's first visa. I told her that it had only been two weeks and we would not hear anything for another 4 to 6 weeks. She wouldn't let up. So I spent over two hours on long distance hold just to finally be told it would be another 4 to 6 weeks until we heard anything. I was not very happy...
If your hubby felt certain he was right about the bus you should have let it go and checked yourself. On the other hand, with the internet he could have checked for you in a matter of minutes so it shouldn't have been a big deal. He's probably feeling crowded. Having a wife from a foreign country is a little like having a baby, they require a lot of attention. He is probably not used to giving the attention you need. This in no way negates the legitimacy of your needs. It just means he has some growing up to do.
I really feel you two are just going thru an adjustment period. There will be a lot of ups and downs along the way. Just remember what made you love him in the first place.

[SMS60]

Aloe

Sounds like his patience is running low. Not your fault. Sometimes people allow little things to turn into something big for no reason. Most of the time there is something else at work and when something small is piled on top, it falls.

Sounds like your not familiar with everything yet. But a big help would be to take care of some of these things yourself. Dont even ask about the bus, just do it.

Sounds like he is being overwelmed with having to make decisions on everything.

Just a thought

[SANDRO43]

last things he said to me today is that i blablabla and complain all the time

Aloe, in all fairness, if you re-read some of your earlier posts, you DO complain - er, at least here, occasionally .

[Blues Fairy]

I agree with Sandro. I am sure you are a wonderful and deep person, Aloe, and your posts are always very intelligent, but here on RWD you sometimes come across as a rather irritable and nervous sort of girl.  Just relax and learn the languages as quickly as possible; you will feel empowered and less dependent on your guy, which will make him less of a jerk towards you.  But don't be afraid to confront him when he does behave like a jerk.  Some men don't notice it until it's pointed out to them. 

[Boethius]

Of course she complains here.  It is her outlet.  

I think Gator's advice is right and Aloe, you should follow it.  You should let your anger and hurt pass for now.  Don't dwell on it.  You cannot keep a grudge, or your marriage will be difficult.  Living together is more of an adjustment for some people than for others, and your arguments are minor, even if it does not seem that way to you.  

Your husband's comment about you being ungrateful when he spends money on you is something you must discuss.  But now is not the time.  You must do it when you are both calm and when you can bring it up rationally.  If he says such things, you must ask him does he not do these things for you because he loves you and wants the best for you?  Is it his money or your (common) money?  Are you not building your life together?

Thank him when he buys something especially for you.  But, remind him of all that you do for him, too, which you do out of love - cleaning, cooking for him, etc.  I suspect he does not thank you for these things.  

Your husband sounds a little clueless and a little immature.  Again, ask him to put himself in your place, if you dropped him in the middle of your town to fend for himself, without knowing the language, with no family or friends to turn to when you are gone for the day.  Tell him how frustrating it is for you to be like a little child in not being able to do things for yourself that you have always done.

I also think it is likely you are emotional in your approaches, and your husband is not.  Some men can sense this but honestly, most young men can't, or won't.  And for some, it will grate.

There must be someone who speaks English who you can ask about the bus schedules.  My strongest advice would be not to be so dependent on your husband.  Not because it annoys him, or because you complain, but because it is not good for you.  While you need to build a life together, you really also need to ensure you are educated, can support yourself, and can function without him.  You don't know what could happen (and I am not, in any way, thinking of divorce).  You must always be able to function self sufficiently, with the hope and expectation that never happens.  

Do you participate at any women's sites?  Are there any sites for Russians who have settled in Belgium?  Those may be places to frequent, to see how others have adjusted.

[Misha]

Are there any sites for Russians who have settled in Belgium?

http://www.russian-belgium.be/ and they have an active forum.

[Aloe]

Boethius is right, i complain here cuz i dont wanna complain to my husband, and i dont have anyone else to complain to, so dont you think its better to do it on the forum?
So we kind of made up, he did say more awful things before that tho, that do i wanna go home, or that i do too many little things that annoy him, makes me wonder if im the right person for him at all. I almost never get annoyed at him, why does he get annoyed with me? I thought it went away cuz i didnt see it in the past month, but before that he was very easy to get annoyed, i guess lately he just hid it without showing, this worries me very much. I really hated that he would make a big deal bordering argument about a toothpick left on the desk for 2 days, i just feel frustrated that such insignificant things would tick him off enough to start an argument, maybe its a sign of something bigger, i just dont see what he could possibly be stressed about that would make him that irritable about such complete and utter nonsense, i guess i should ask elaborately, cuz if i simply ask, he always says everything is great, but doesnt this behavior say otherwise, that something isnt great for him?

[Aloe]

http://www.russian-belgium.be/ and they have an active forum.

that forum is great for advice on facts how to do this or that, but god forbid you bring an emotional problem there, the mockery will see no end, not just in the topic your start, in any other following topic or post they will always bring it up and make fun of it

[Ade]

Aloe, take it from me, he's being an arse. I know, as I used to do/say similar things to my ex when we moved together in our 20's. It's, or at least was for me, a combination of immaturity, stubbornness, and a feeling of being a little trapped and overwhelmed that comes from moving together and really committing for the first time. My guess is he's throwing these things back at you, like the complaining, because he doesn't want to face up to the fact that he's being a dick; it's easier to divert the attention from his to your failings even if they are non-existent or minor ones.

You need to try not to make this into a confrontational thing as it will, in all likelihood, just make him more obstinate and you also need to avoid any sort of blame or belittling, even if he deserves it.

Gator's idea may work; being nice, loving and patient may make him feel guilty enough about his behaviour for him to admit it to himself and to you. And that's the first step in changing.

[Aloe]

and i do point it out when he is being a jerk, and every time it ends the same, he always says he didnt mean it and he was just mad and it was stupid and that he loves me, i dunno, does he think if he keeps chanting that, he can say any mean thing to me, i really dont know anymore, did he mean it or not, if not, why say it, dont you realize that words hurt more than anything when its coming from someone you deeply care about

[Aloe]

Aloe, take it from me, he's being an arse. I know, as I used to do/say similar things to my ex when we moved together in our 20's. It's, or at least was for me, a combination of immaturity, stubbornness, and a feeling of being a little trapped and overwhelmed that comes from moving together and really committing for the first time. My guess is he's throwing these things back at you, like the complaining, because he doesn't want to face up to the fact that he's being a dick; it's easier to divert the attention from his to your failings even if they are non-existent or minor ones.

You need to try not to make this into a confrontational thing as it will, in all likelihood, just make him more obstinate and you also need to avoid any sort of blame or belittling, even if he deserves it.

Gator's idea may work; being nice, loving and patient may make him feel guilty enough about his behaviour for him to admit it to himself and to you. And that's the first step in changing.

i should print that and hang it on the wall, or at least my minds wall. i guess i should try it, since we actually made up. Cuz i couldnt be nice if we didnt make up, otherwise he would think he can treat me like shit and ill just swallow it and be nice all the time no matter what

[Boethius]

Ok, this will sound weird, but was the toothpick used?  Because that would be kind of gross.

He probably feels financial pressures too that he wouldn't necessarily have with Belgian.  A lot of guys are jerks in their twenties, Aloe.  It takes many men - a lot of women will say most men - a long time to grow up.  

I disagree about pointing out that he's a jerk.  It won't change his behaviour unless he really believes it and wants to change.

That site may be okay for some of your societal questions.  I think you should also post on a Russian women's forum (I assume your husband doesn't speak Russian).  They will have your experiences of moving abroad which may help you, and make you feel so not alone.

I think you should, as a couple, seek counselling.  He needs someone neutral to tell him he is immature, and as a married man, he doesn't have that option.  You should be able to find someone who speaks English, which I assume is a common language for you both?

Finally, in the interim (and if he refuses to go to counselling), I will recommend a book for you

http://www.amazon.com/Proper-Care-Feeding-Husbands/dp/0060520620/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253254770&sr=8-1

I am certain this will make some posters here apoplectic , but a lot of what Dr. Laura, who is a US radio personality, says, is true.  It may give you a different perspective.

[Ade]

i should print that and hang it on the wall, or at least my minds wall. i guess i should try it, since we actually made up. Cuz i couldnt be nice if we didnt make up, otherwise he would think he can treat me like *snip* and ill just swallow it and be nice all the time no matter what

No, no one should ever accept behaviour like this but, you need to try to be the mature one if you can and be constructive when you try to resolve these issues. He'll grow up eventually and sooner rather than later if you teach him properly.

[Shadow]

Aloe, first of all: http://www.delijn.be/ check there if the bus is available or not.
All you need is to type in the places of departure and arrival, and you can see which bus to take.

Now about your husband. It is something that I have been thinking of doing as well, however being older I know that telling every little thing will grow in to a big argument that actually has no sense.
The real problem is probably that when he married you, he was expecting things to pick up fast. He would get a good job, and after a couple of month you would be able to speak vlaams and get a job as well, making it possible to start on babies and a house of your own. Well reality is always a lot slower, and life is hard for him.
He has to work and solve his problems, and after that come home and solve yours.
In a marriage there are always little things irritating each other, you got to step over it and accept. As fo leaving a toothpick, sometimes I tell Mrs Shadow that if I am not doing things correctly or in time, nothing stops here from doing it better. That will start an arguument though. 

Gator is right, even when you are angry you should show that you love him, and he will show that he loves you as well.
There is one thing my parents taught me, and while difficult you might want to try it. They told me never go to sleep when you are angry at each other. Because you never know if you both will wake up in the morning, and would have to remember your last moments together as a fight.

[Aloe]

thanks guys

[Aloe]

Ok, this will sound weird, but was the toothpick used?  Because that would be kind of gross.

He probably feels financial pressures too that he wouldn't necessarily have with Belgian.  A lot of guys are jerks in their twenties, Aloe.  It takes many men - a lot of women will say most men - a long time to grow up.  

I disagree about pointing out that he's a jerk.  It won't change his behaviour unless he really believes it and wants to change.

That site may be okay for some of your societal questions.  I think you should also post on a Russian women's forum (I assume your husband doesn't speak Russian).  They will have your experiences of moving abroad which may help you, and make you feel so not alone.

I think you should, as a couple, seek counselling.  He needs someone neutral to tell him he is immature, and as a married man, he doesn't have that option.  You should be able to find someone who speaks English, which I assume is a common language for you both?

Finally, in the interim (and if he refuses to go to counselling), I will recommend a book for you

http://www.amazon.com/Proper-Care-Feeding-Husbands/dp/0060520620/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253254770&sr=8-1

I am certain this will make some posters here apoplectic , but a lot of what Dr. Laura, who is a US radio personality, says, is true.  It may give you a different perspective.

the toothpick was used, but there never is any visible stuff left on any of my toothpicks, besides i dont complain about his used socks left around the house, altho those are pretty gross, or toilet seat always left up, or toothpaste always open, or hairs from his shaving all over the sink, so why should he complain about my little things?
We cant afford counseling, i just hope now that this is still him adjusting and it will pass. Oh and he knows perfectly well when he is being an ass, and thanks for the link

[Gator]

Aloe,

Collectively you are getting some excellent advice from RWD members.  Everyone here has been through these before.

If the toilet seat is up, a woman can lower it. 

If a toothpick on a table bothers a man, he can pick it up. 

Does it really matter if one person squeezes the toothpaste at the top and the other person from the bottom?!

You could say with a smile that you were saving money by reusing toothpicks.  However, that could be a really bad idea if he  feels money pressure, namely marriage is costing more than he calculated.  Such a humorous comment about saving money could be easily misinterpreted as you sarcastically insulting him about not making enough money - that is a battle you must avoid AS IT IS A CANCER THAT EATS AWAY LOVE.  Avoid the sarcasm on delicate issues.

Adjustment to any marriage requires patience, especially cross-cultural marriages.  I am a patient man, and so is my wife, and I have decades of experience with marriage, yet we still have our moments.  Conflicts are inevitable.  What is important is how you resolve them.


P. S.  I do agree that he should clean the sink after shaving.   That is almost the same as not flushing the toilet.

My belief is that cleanliness will sink to the lowest common denominator (the messiest person wins in the end). 

 

[boaterguy]

it sounds like huge lack of communication, but now cuz we didnt finish the conversation, i dont know what to do tomorrow, id really hate to be one of those couples where people are upset and dont talk to each other for days

I haven't read the whole thread...so maybe someone has said this. No matter how hard it is, never go to bed with an unsolved disagreement. Usually it will just continue to get worse. Sounds like your hubby is under alot of stress.

[groovlstk]

Aloe,

It seems to me that your husband may be interpreting your issues in the wrong manner. I'm saying this just based on my own experience, but we often talk about the incredible sacrifices our wives make to leave everything behind to be with their husbands. This is absolutely true, but us men also have huge adjustments to make - and most of the time we tend to advise guys in this situation to simply "suck it up" and be a man and press onwards. I think the problem is that your husband is stuck in a loop and whenever you voice the slightest complaint or dissatisfaction, he's interpreting it as criticism of HIM, and not a particular issue like busses or food or income. Of course he's wrong, but in his mind he's made all these sacrifices and every complaint you make he's interpreting as evidence of your unhappiness.

If I were you, I'd sit down and have a long talk about this stuff, and reiterate to him again and again that your relationship is an entirely separate issue and he shouldn't take criticisms about your new life as something he is responsible for or something that will affect your marriage.

When my wife first arrived, she'd often compare life here to life in Moscow and often enough she saw Moscow as better. I'd like to say that I behaved like the perfect gentleman and helped her work through this stuff, but that wasn't always the case. If I had a bad day at work or had pressure in other areas of my life, it became easy for me to feel offended when she'd complain that our subway platforms were hot and smelly compared to Moscow or that our produce sucked. My getting upset about this stuff only made matters worse, so I quickly learned to separate issues that were about our marriage and relationship vs. external issues that neither of us had any control of and, at the end of the day, were not important anyway. When I allowed these things to bother me, all sorts of petty arguments (arguments that we laugh about now in a nostalgic way) mushroomed. When I didn't let stuff like this bother me and instead was sympathetic and encouraged her to talk about it, everything became much easier.

As wrong as it is for men to get upset about such silly things, I think it stems from our sense of responsibility. We are the reason our wives relocated and in a sense we feel responsible for every aspect of this new world she is experiencing. We have to constantly remind ourselves that we are not responsible for our country's politics or the bus schedule.

[AnastassiaAsh]

Excellent posts, everybody!

Yes, it's all about communication within the loving relationship.

Also, for example, you guys can talk to each other and write down 3 things that bother or irritate you in the other, and promise to each other to work on these. In a week, talk about it again and let each other know if you saw any changes for the better. Nobody is perfect, marriage is all about a compromise and choosing your own battles. Good marriage survives when both people are working on it. Marriage is a 'team' work.

[GoodOlBoy]

Also, for example, you guys can talk to each other and write down 3 things that bother or irritate you in the other, and promise to each other to work on these.

No Offense AA, BUT....Be very careful about implementing this advice Aloe.

None of us on RWD have met Aloe's husband or have read any of his internet post's (thoughts).

Thus, we have NO idea what her hubands reaction would be, when confronted with Aloe's list of "disapproval's". 

Exchanging this kind of information between a newlywed husband and wife can be very dangerous without the supervision of a formally trained therapist or family counselor.


GOB