Why Russian women?

[pacifica]

Hi guys,

I was born in Russia, but moved to another country when I was 17, and about 7 years ago I moved to US. This is my home now, I am a US citizen, so I am not sure I would consider myself a RW, although I still speak Russian. I've been divorced for several years, and recently have started looking for a partner/husband on websites like Match.

I've stumbled upon this forum somehow, have been reading the posts, and was wondering... what is it that you, American men, are looking for in Russia? What makes you invest all that effort to find a Russian girl? It's hard enough to find someone to love even in your own country, with no culture differences, and it takes months/years to get to know the person to decide if this is the one you want to marry. How do you do that with someone who lives half the way across the world, and in many cases, doesn't even speak your language?

[Misha]

Welcome,

I did not see myself as looking specifically for a RW, simply looking where I could. I see you are doing the same: when you did not find any potential partners in your immediate circle of friends and acquaintances, you then turned to websites such as Match. I did the same, but did not limit myself to my city or even my country.

As for language, I spoke Russian, so that was not much of an issue.

Misha

[groovlstk]

Hi guys,

I was born in Russia, but moved to another country when I was 17, and about 7 years ago I moved to US. This is my home now, I am a US citizen, so I am not sure I would consider myself a RW, although I still speak Russian. I've been divorced for several years, and recently have started looking for a partner/husband on websites like Match.

Welcome Pacifica, your background is unique when it comes to the board's demographics, I'm sure you have many fascinating opinions. I hope you'll share freely.

For myself, I was first attracted to Russian women by their sheer beauty, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. There are other factors that played in as well:

-Having grown up during the Cold War, I was taught that Russians were sneaky commies and that the women had mustaches and arms like prizefighters. In addition to understanding this was propaganda and rejecting it, there's something intriguing about courting someone who years earlier would be considered an enemy.
-I love books and was sad to see many in my generation abandon reading, and most of the RW I exchanged email with had a passion for literature.
-While some guys may disagree with this, there is tremendous romance in finding someone halfway across the globe and deciding you want to spend the rest of your life with this person.
 

[pacifica]

I did not see myself as looking specifically for a RW, simply looking where I could. I see you are doing the same: when you did not find any potential partners in your immediate circle of friends and acquaintances, you then turned to websites such as Match. I did the same, but did not limit myself to my city or even my country.

So have you looked in Africa and Australia too?

[Jooky]

What is it that you, American men, are looking for in Russia?

The most obvious reason is that bridal agencies advertise that a man can find a much younger, slimmer and prettier wife than he could back home. There is truth to this, but the trick is finding a sincere wife for the long run.

[Admin]

Hi guys,

I was born in Russia, but moved to another country when I was 17, and about 7 years ago I moved to US. This is my home now, I am a US citizen, so I am not sure I would consider myself a RW, although I still speak Russian. I've been divorced for several years, and recently have started looking for a partner/husband on websites like Match.

I've stumbled upon this forum somehow, have been reading the posts, and was wondering... what is it that you, American men, are looking for in Russia? What makes you invest all that effort to find a Russian girl? It's hard enough to find someone to love even in your own country, with no culture differences, and it takes months/years to get to know the person to decide if this is the one you want to marry. How do you do that with someone who lives half the way across the world, and in many cases, doesn't even speak your language?

You will find a pretty broad cross-section of experiences here - and more than a few who were not "looking" for a life partner in Russia, per se. Just as you mention having "stumbled" onto this forum, many guys (and gals) happen onto this idea by sheer happenstance. Once the idea takes root, then there are other factors that play into it - not the least of which is a pretty significant amount of willingness to take a risk. In some ways, it is no different from 'adventurers' of the past - except that the stakes are higher.

In my case, I had been living overseas in Asia and Europe, and had seen colleagues and friends who had married into the local cultures. It was that positive experience that opened my mind to the notion, and when my marriage failed, I was quite receptive to a foreign partner. I happened to be traveling to Ukraine quite often, and I met my now wife in a rather normal manner being introduced through friends. Earlier, while living in Taiwan and Germany (and spending loads of time in India, Indonesia and other Asia countries), I would have been open to meeting a woman from anywhere. It just so happened my now wife was born in Ukraine.

Please share your experiences with us - and continue to ask your questions. We have a fine bunch of folks here - both men and women - and I'm sure they will be happy to help you understand the broad range of relationships and their origins found here.

- Dan

[pacifica]

The most obvious reason is that bridal agencies advertise that a man can find a much younger, slimmer and prettier wife than he could back home. There is truth to this, but the trick is finding a sincere wife for the long run.

I understand that a younger, beautiful wife is an ego boost, but looks have nothing to do with happiness in marriage.

[pacifica]

I happened to be traveling to Ukraine quite often, and I met my now wife in a rather normal manner being introduced through friends.

Yes, if you are already there, then it's no different than meeting someone at home (besides maybe the cultural differences), but I see here on this site a lot of guys that are going there on purpose, to meet girls. Is it really worth the trouble?

[Faux Pas]

Hi guys,

I was born in Russia, but moved to another country when I was 17, and about 7 years ago I moved to US. This is my home now, I am a US citizen, so I am not sure I would consider myself a RW, although I still speak Russian. I've been divorced for several years, and recently have started looking for a partner/husband on websites like Match.

I've stumbled upon this forum somehow, have been reading the posts, and was wondering... what is it that you, American men, are looking for in Russia? What makes you invest all that effort to find a Russian girl? It's hard enough to find someone to love even in your own country, with no culture differences, and it takes months/years to get to know the person to decide if this is the one you want to marry. How do you do that with someone who lives half the way across the world, and in many cases, doesn't even speak your language?

Firstly, I'd say because, there are women there  

It wouldn't make much sense to look in Antarctica or the Sahara desert for women would it?  

Why Russian women when there are many other continents and countries with women? Please keep in mind I am only speaking for myself and from my experience. I too, was on Match, American Singles, Yahoo and a host of others for a number of years. I met and dated quite a few ladies during that time and had to travel quite frequently to do so. There were the "Meet Russian Ladies" banners on all of those sites. I was approached on those same American websites by obvious scam operations pretending to be sincere Russian woman. Of the American women I met (and there were many), many interesting, many beautiful, many plain and many deceiving but, I didn't find one single lady that I would marry.

My curiosity about Russian women finally gotten the best of me. From the website banners and brief correspondence with some scammers I decided to look further into the AM/RW relationship possibilities. I approached with extreme caution yet, I like what I learned. At this time I then joined a few RW sites and it was "on". In essence I expanded the circle I was already in to include overseas and focused on Russia. The place I was taught was the enemy I think only compounded my curiosity.

I was never "wife hunting" even on the American sites but, I was searching for a woman to develop a serious relationship with, up to and including marriage. I never found her until I went to Russia. I've always had relationships, dates, friends with benefits and company. It wasn't a matter of loneliness on the exterior it was a matter of finding what I've always looked for, that missing piece of my heart.

To date, I have no train wreck to report and other than meeting a very wonderful woman, my many trips to Russia have been pretty uneventful. I look at my entire situation as I found her in Russia after looking in many other places.

[Admin]

Yes, if you are already there, then it's no different than meeting someone at home (besides maybe the cultural differences), but I see here on this site a lot of guys that are going there on purpose, to meet girls. Is it really worth the trouble?

In terms of "worth it" - I might suggest that a successful and happy long-term marriage is rare enough that if/when someone finds that match, they would likely say 'Yes, it is worth it' [whatever 'it' is].

I would also argue that casting a broader net, so to speak, and looking far afield from one's 'backyard', is merely increasing the likelihood of finding that suitable partner.

There are clearly some who are NOT well-suited for pursuing an international partner. Those who are risk-averse - those who are xenophobic - those who cannot afford the costs - and this is only a short list, there are numerous other 'disqualifiers.'

- Dan

[jamesbond]

I am 40 and I dated this 25 years old -- flew her to Dominicana. But I backed out --- I got scared (it was like I am being released from a marriage thru a divorce and I would go back to the cage only to be divorced again).

You are smart, have a good judgement and your picture is PRETTY . Is that your picture ?

[Admin]

pacifica,

One more thought - and at the risk of being trite, please take a review of this topic -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1255.0, and you will see a lot of what makes this endeavor very much "worth the trouble." Admittedly, this comes from the perspective of one who is separated from his daughter on her birthday week as I am on travel for business, so may be a bit more sentimental than normal, but it still makes the point - or part of it.

FWIW

- Dan

[Jooky]

Is it really worth the trouble?

For most men, no. If you end up happily married, of course, yes!

Aside from the obvious that I mentioned above, there are some real advantages to seeking a wife in Russia that can counterbalance the many disadvantages.

1. If you're looking to get married, being direct about it when dating normally or through sites like match.com is practically taboo. You come across as desperate. Using a bridal site you can get right to the point. Assuming sincere intentions, both sides are already on the same page. They want to get married, and soon. It's a different approach to building a relationship, but it can work for some.

2. If you're using a bridal or international dating site, a decent average Joe gets a lot more attention than he would on a site back home. I think anyone here who's used these sites can attest to that. You're competing with a different group of men and that can 'get you in the door' with women who would pass you by back home. To add to what Faux Pas said above, a lot of men are looking locally on sites like match.com when they first find a link to a Russian site. They give it a shot and find they're getting far more responses than they did locally. It can really suck a man in!

3. If you want to expand your dating pool beyond your hometown, you can look first to other parts of the US. What you'll find (or at least what I found) is that women in the US are usually looking only for local partners. It's tough to expand your choices to another state or even 100 miles away. However, if you're looking on an international site, you're looking at a group of women who've already decided to expand their geographic search to you.

4. The attention a man gets (often false attention) when searching for a Russian bride can boost his confidence. In turn, this makes a man more ready to approach different women and more attractive to those he does approach. I've seen this happen, and I've seen men gain confidence by dating overseas which in turn helped them find women back home.

5. From spending some time working and living normally in Russia, for me personally I've seen two advantages to dating in Russia over back home in California.

The first is that for my tastes, there are more attractive women in Russia. Not that all Russian women are beautiful. Far from it. But, if I walk down the street, go to a disco, or browse a local dating site in Novosibirsk, there's a noticeable difference between what I see there and in San Francisco. That means that if I'm looking for a woman of whatever other criteria, chances of finding a woman who's also physically attractive to me are much higher. That's a good thing.

The second is that I find Russian women more approachable. I've seen this not only personally, but for my male friends in Russia. I think Russian women are more willing to consider a man who approaches them and give them a chance. I think foreigners tend to mistake this attitude for immediate interest. Usually it's not, but it does open doors that would never be opened in the US.

In the US, guys often complain about their choices with local women. In Russia, guys often brag about how lucky they are. There's something to it...

[pacifica]

you will see a lot of what makes this endeavor very much "worth the trouble."

Oh, I totally agree, if you find the love of your life and start a family, it's definitely worth it!

[pacifica]

1. If you're looking to get married, being direct about it when dating normally or through sites like match.com is practically taboo. You come across as desperate.

Really? Stating that I am looking to get married makes me look desperate? Even to guys that are looking for the same? I guess I should rewrite my profile

They give it a shot and find they're getting far more responses than they did locally. It can really suck a man in!

It's true, I am hearing the response rate on local websites is very low for guys...

3. If you want to expand your dating pool beyond your hometown, you can look first to other parts of the US. What you'll find (or at least what I found) is that women in the US are usually looking only for local partners. It's tough to expand your choices to another state or even 100 miles away. However, if you're looking on an international site, you're looking at a group of women who've already decided to expand their geographic search to you.

It's tough to expand your choices, because you have to spend a lot of time together to get to know each other, and it's much easier to do when you are from the same town. But I think  long distance can be done, if I can hope on a plane every 3-4 weeks and spend a weekend together. How do you get to know someone if they are on the other side of the world?

I find Russian women more approachable. I've seen this not only personally, but for my male friends in Russia. I think Russian women are more willing to consider a man who approaches them and give them a chance. I think foreigners tend to mistake this attitude for immediate interest. Usually it's not, but it does open doors that would never be opened in the US.

Hm, interesting... I always heard that Western women are much more approachable They smile more, try to be nice to strangers, make small talk, etc. I don't know, maybe Russian women have totally changed in the last 18 years, since I left...

[tfcrew]

I did not see myself as looking specifically for a RW, simply looking... 

The same here.
Actually, my future wife found my international profile first and only then did I learn where she was from. 

[Jooky]

Really? Stating that I am looking to get married makes me look desperate? Even to guys that are looking for the same?

Not to everyone of course. I can think of many friends and their dating experiences over the past 20 years or so. Marriage was definitely in the back of their mind, but not something they were searching for. They would (and did) marry the right (or wrong!) woman if she came along, but if a woman mentioned married or even a serious relationship too quick, that was a big turn off. The same goes for women I've known. Dating with marriage as an immediate goal instead of a natural progression just isn't attractive to many people.

I am hearing the response rate on local websites is very low for guys...

Why do you think that is?

How do you get to know someone if they are on the other side of the world?

For me personally, I spend months at a time in Russia. If you don't have that type of freedom, it's tough, which is why I don't recommend this type of search to any of my friends. 

I always heard that Western women are much more approachable

Many guys posting here will tell you the opposite. I don't find women here that tough to approach, but I have seen lots of men struggle. Think about this: in the US these days there is a ton of money being made by dating gurus who teach men how to pick up women. Young guys will pay 10,000 bucks for a week long boot camp to learn from the experts. E-Books and hard copy books have sold millions of copies. If women were easy for the average guy to talk to, there'd be no market for this stuff.

maybe Russian women have totally changed in the last 18 years, since I left

It's possible. Russia has changed a lot since my first visit 8 years ago. I don't see a big difference between young Russians and young Americans. Actually it's sometimes easier for me at 40 years old to fit in culturally with young Russians because the styles, attitudes and musical tastes are more similar to my highschool days than to the US today. 

[Gator]

Pacifica, welcome to RWD.  You seem very bright.  Are you trying to get into touch with your Russian soul?

I will answer your question by example.  In summary, my RW wife is glorious.  She is not perfect yet she is ideal for me, and far better than I deserve.

Life with her is certainly not boring, and frequently pleasurably stimulating.  There are moments that take my breath.  Other moments require me to bite my tongue, yet I appreciate how she stands up to me because I can be difficult at times.  She is a better overall friend and companion than any of my American girlfriends.

Her family goals are important to me because I am a family man.  As frosting on the cake, her two children are an immeasurable source of joy.

The problem was that the geographic separation, cultural and language barriers, and age disparity restrained me from marrying her earlier.  Nevertheless, at a critical moment she did something absolutely remarkable and I woke up just in time.  After nearly six years of knowing each other, we tied the knot in April 2008.  Knowing what I know today, I would happily do it again.

Why did I go to Russia the first time?  In the midst of a rebound from a divorce and a couple of failed short-term relationships with AW, the promise of exotic travel and exotic women was irresistible.  It was a splendid trip and I rarely dated AW after that.

[Misha]

So have you looked in Africa and Australia too?

I was in Russia for work. If I had been in Australia or Africa, who knows  However, the main advantage with Russia compared to Canada is that dating is much easier.

[Gator]

So have you looked in Africa and Australia too?

Some sarcasm, eh.

I have travelled to Ethiopia when with the UN.  The women are very pretty.  Tall and slender.

[Vaughn]

I enjoyed a salmon fishing trip up North with old friends in October of 2000, and
had such a good time I decided to go solo the following year - but overseas.
Originally I planned on Iceland. Logistics and a fair knowledge of your original
tongue caused to me to switch my destination to Russia. In the course of my
research I came across RW profiles, one of which was my future wife, Elvira.

I never even dropped a line in the water until my fourth trip in 2006.

We were married 6 1/2 years ago and wouldn't change a thing.

[RussianWind]

It's hard enough to find someone to love even in your own country, with no culture differences,

Just on the contrary the differences attract 

The most obvious reason is that bridal agencies advertise that a man can find a much younger, slimmer and prettier wife than he could back home. There is truth to this, but the trick is finding a sincere wife for the long run.

This is a man flattering sentence. How about: "In Russia young pretty girls will pay attention on a you because you are a foreigner and not because Russians prefer older men"

 

[I/O]

there is tremendous romance in finding someone halfway across the globe and deciding you want to spend the rest of your life with this person.

Ain't this the truth, at least for me it was/is.

Pacifica: IMO there are people who will be prepared to embark upon an international relationship and there are people who will not. Among those who are, there is many sections, some plain desperates sucked in by the promotions of "you can get one of these" (The younger, prettier, maybe gullible dah dah dah), the hunters who want to capture a trophy and parade it (read her) later, there are men of the world who will wander wherever their work / life takes them and happen across a partner abroad, there are those (I consider myself one) who were / are just plain board with life, decided to see what lay beyond the horizon and there are many other groups, all of which will make all sorts of attempts to logically justify doing what they are doing or did.

In reality, IMO, for the most part, the bottom line is they/we found/sought someone of greater quality (in ones own eyes) than was available near home, be that emotional, intellectual, physical or other quality. "International" is marketed in a host of ways to a host of target markets of this type.

Foreign was not very "foreign" for me as when I think back prior to and after my first marriage given say a 20 year period (including 10 of marriage), from teenage years I had perhaps 8 or more foreign girlfriends (among a string of others) to a more or lessor extent. I had always been attracted to foreign people and as groovlstk mentions there was something slightly more romantic about it.

To your actual question, why Russian? I cannot give you a complete answer because a writable one does not exist. I went to Russia years back because I wanted to go to Russia. Along the way I did meet several women as a single guy does when he travels. One of those meetings was pre arranged, not more. I liked much of Russia and found the people interesting. When I decided to go back is when I started to look at introduction sites more seriously. I bought a little of the hype (warmer, prettier, family minded and other BS) but when I again arrived in Russia I was initially disappointed as the reality did not match the rhetoric. I blew all the website hype in about 10 minutes flat and asked myself why I had come back? The answer lay in the fact the trip had been planned before the idea of meeting someone thus I refocused on my original intention which did as an aside lead me across the path of a number of women, none of which interested me personally on any more than a casual dating level.

Why Russian? My now wife: She is white (which I prefer), she is pretty (which I like), she is intelligent (which provides constant challenge), she is tough (which is necessary to survive me), she is adventurous (prerequisite for international marriage), she is foreign (my record suggests I prefer), she had my measure in about 5 minutes (which of course I hate) and she can kiss like a vacuum cleaner (shoot me). At the end of the day, I was there, she was there we were both available, we met we fell in love, we married and now we fight........................................ That's pretty normal isn't it?

Would I advise someone to deliberately go looking to do this? The hell no!!! For all the reasons you raised in your opening post. It's madness. 

[Shadow]

Pacifica, I looked in my home country, half of Europe, Souths America, the United States and the FSU.
Was never afraid of other languages and cultures, or traveling to go on a date that might fail. MrsShadow happened to be from Moscow, but she could have been from any other place on the world

[Mars]

Pacifica, the reasons WM look to FSU for women is very simple and basic (as some of the men have stated) and not complicated (as some of the men have written).

The reasons have to do with inborn ideas that both men and women have developed for thousands of years.

Women look for healthy and financially stable men who can father and support a mother and children.

Men look for women who bring out in the men the desire to procreate (have sex in simple terms).  This mostly entails slender bodies and pretty faces.

OK, so first start with viewpoint of RW as posted by gemini (and echoed by other RW in that thread):

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=9683.0

"I will try to answer your question what RW are looking for. People in Russia tend to marry early. It is probably sounds ridiculous but 25+ woman is old made in Russia because most of the men are married by 25. It is changing now in the big cities but not so much. My niece is 25 and lots of her friends are 25, divorce and have one child. For most of the women is close to impossible to find a husband. Financial situation is not as good in Russia as it is in US. Lot of the young (and not so young) men in Russia are not able to support themselves, not speaking about a wife and children.
The situation with housing is horrible. Some of my friends' children are married and live with their parents/parents-in-low in small 2 bedroom apartments and it is common situation. There are some other reasons but my point is for lots of RW it is the only hope to find a husband."

This viewpoint by RW sets up the situation where they are receptive to alternatives to local RM.

Now, turn to the men who are mostly always looking for slender and pretty women.
There are many such women in USA, but they have a much larger selection of men in USA who meet  their criteria than do RW.

So the available pool of desireable women in USA is smaller for the WM than is the available pool of desireable women in FSU.  Men go to where the best hunting is.

And now, an even shorter answer to your 'Why RW.'  The FSU women make themself available to WM.  When and if the FSU women stop making themselves available to WM, the WM will stop seeking FSU women.