I'm new here

[myrddin]

  If he's not able to handle my writing style, how on Earth will he be able to handle a FSU wife? 

Cutting to the chase, so to speak...

[RussianWind]

Is interesting that the RW 'bug' hits most of us around the age of 40 regardless..

 

Just the goth theme is popular among youngsters like 17-20 y.o. Then people change their prorities.

[Sculpto]

Just the goth theme is popular among youngsters like 17-20 y.o. Then people change their prorities.

That depends on where you live RW.. in my neck of the woods there are plenty of Goths who have been doing it for years.. decades even.. plus.. the kiddies are just hangers on.. they aren't the ones who innovated the musical style.. the fashion or the cultural norms..

[RussianWind]

So goths do not grow then  It was just a question.

[Sculpto]

So goths do not grow then  It was just a question.

What makes you say that?  They grow in different ways than conventional people..

[GoodOlBoy]

I have two words to describe our OP:

SELF ABSORBED! 


GOB

now to stumble to bed... wish me luck lol
zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

PS....Sleep tight Gothman and don't let the bed bugs bite! :evil:

[RussianWind]

Okey, now they are going to cut me into pieces and eat for a dinner  

Any Hurry Potter's fans here too?

[elliott]

Okey, now they are going to cut me into pieces and eat for a dinner

I don't think goths are cannibals.  But, I'm not goth, nor am I a cannibal, so I wouldn't know.

[Sculpto]

I have two words to describe our OP:

SELF ABSORBED! 

GOB

PS....Sleep tight and don't let the bed bugs bite! :evil:

..........

[Sculpto]

Functionally Goth is a religion.. though I doubt anyone who is Goth would admit to that.. well, maybe religion isn't the right word.. more like sect.. minus the guru... of course I am speaking form an anthropological view..

[GoodOlBoy]

Functionally Goth is a religion.. though I doubt anyone who is Goth would admit to that.. well, maybe religion isn't the right word.. more like sect..

Yeah...and there is too much of that cr*p on the West Coast of the GoodOl' USA!

I have lived in and out of Californication for several years and there is one thing I can state with a certainty.

People that live in that state (Califorinia) live in "another world" than the rest of us "average" Americans in the GoodOl' USA inhabit.

They don't call it "La, La, Land" and "Who do Voodoo land" for nothing.

The people in Califorornia have been out of touch with reality for so long (since the 1960's) that there is absolutely no hope for Nancy Pelosi and her crowd.

IMO...California is a refugee state for "misfits" and "riff-raff".


GOB

[greg2654]

Hello Mark,
When I went over the first time a friend gave me some good, simple advise.
He said:
"It's all about keeping your head in the right place. Don't go over thinking that you are going to meet your future wife because this will put SO much pressure on you that it'll make you crazy and you won't act naturally around her and her family. Instead think of it like this, you're going on vacation to a far away and very different place and when you get there you're also going to have a date!"

This simple attitude adjustment will make all the difference in the world. You'll be more open, fun and stress free and even if things don't workout (remember, you're NOT obligated to anyone at this point) you still can have a great trip.

Happy Trails, Greg

[RussianWind]

Don't go over thinking that you are going to meet your future wife because this will put SO much pressure on you that it'll make you crazy and you won't act naturally around her and her family.

The problem with Mark is that if things don't work right between him and the girl, where he will get another goth? 

[Vaughn]

I like Greg's advice just above. Far too many consider "engagement" as a success objective.

I also enjoyed Blues Fairy's tough love posts here - and could have benefitted from her
coaching five to six years ago. My youngest daughter fell into the Goth crowd in her
freshman year at high school. She had extreme self-esteem issues and a history of
behavioral problems. The wardrobe faded to black, Insane Clown Posse was her frame
of reference, and a cloak of secrecy pervaded. It was most difficult for my ex-wife and
I to steer her clear of danger. Let's be honest here - I never met any of her Goth friends
that were not either involved in or receptive to the use of illegal drugs for purposes of
recreation and/or a delusional sense that these were practically necessary to survive.

I cannot claim there were no achievers in this group. A few at least were holding down
jobs. How they landed these jobs at interview time escapes me, but I guess there's
always room for one more counter person at Hot Topic - the Goth retailer of choice
in this area. In general, though, it was all too evident that the majority were, by their
own choice, willing to live off Mom, Dad, uncle - or whoever would be willing to enable
the lifestyle.

Something struck my daughter one day, but from where it finally surfaced I have no idea.
Perhaps our consistency, coupled with declarations of parental love no matter what,
began to bear long-awaited fruit.

She said to me, "Dad, I'm tired of hanging around depressed people so much..." Today,
she is enrolled in college, living back home with her Mom - which I believe is a solid
place to be for a girl of nineteen, and pursuing a degree in the field of medicine. In
retrospect, I am happy that we never gave up on her - so many others have been
tossed, dismissed, and disowned.

Sometimes it is the tough truth that Blues Fairy
speaks that ultimately gets through. This endeavor requires responsibility, self-love,
self-esteem and so many other functional qualities. In my estimation, djgoth's visit
is long overdue - but far more important is an honest self-inventory that cannot
dismiss the wherewithal necessary to nourish an international relationship with marriage
as its objective.

  

[docetae]

The problem with Mark is that if things don't work right between him and the girl, where he will get another goth? 

In germany !

(sorry ....too easy)

[RussianWind]

Lovely post, Vaughn. I can't imagine how it was difficult for you to pass this period with your daughter, it's all about great patience and delicacy. Teens are so easy hurt at the time they are trying to "find themselves" and often involved in bad companies.

Some get stuck. It's time to wake up, Mark. You are a very attractive young man, you just need to develop more confidence about yourself and try to live not only in virtual reality. The real world can be amazing, you know.

[Sculpto]

Yeah...and there is too much of that cr*p on the West Coast of the GoodOl' USA!

I have lived in and out of Californication for several years and there is one thing I can state with a certainty.

People that live in that state (Califorinia) live in "another world" than the rest of us "average" Americans in the GoodOl' USA inhabit.

They don't call it "La, La, Land" and "Who do Voodoo land" for nothing.

The people in Califorornia have been out of touch with reality for so long (since the 1960's) that there is absolutely no hope for Nancy Pelosi and her crowd.

IMO...California is a refugee state for "misfits" and "riff-raff".


GOB

Yet our economy supports the rest of the country.. GOB.. go back to your corner. 

[djgothman]

wow guys... I didnt mean to start a civil war. Although the drama is enticing.

I'll tell you something about manic depression... I'm open about it because it not only helps ME to understand, it provides others an insight into this rollercoaster of emotion. For us... there is very little middle ground. We are typically either in a depressive phase where all is dark and hope disappears. We become absorbed in our self-doom. Everything hangs on a thread and sometimes just a look can set off a wave of depression. Yes... some comments have brought upon a depression, but sometimes this also becomes the "trigger" for the manic phase.

This manic phase is even tougher to describe. This is the stage where thoughts are incredibly rapid coupled with EXTREME clarity. A person's creativity and resourcefullness shine through and we become far more than the sum of our intellect and creativity. I myself have an inclination of an industrial engineer and physicist. During times of mania, I will FILL notebooks with schematics, hypothetical quantum and astro physics formulas, poetry, philosophy. I've been known to read books within only a few hours and grasp every word.

Its not cureable at this time... only treatable. But for those of us afflicted, there is a desire for these stages. Both stages are on the opposite sides of the spectrum of emotion... and they can both be terribly aluring. This is why many people chose not to take the drugs that even it out.

Historically, some of the greatest acheivers in the world struggled with this affliction. They didnt call it bi-polar... they had no idea what the hell it was. Artists musicians and writers typically refer to it as the "blue" period.

Poets: John Berryman, William Blake, Lord Byron, Emily Dickenson, Nikolai Gumilyov, Victor Hugo, Sylvia Plath, Alfred Lord Tennyson, Walt Whitman, Edgar Allan Poe.
Writers: Hans Christian Anderson, Honore de Balzac, Samuel Clemens, Ralph Waldo Emerson, William Faulkner, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Ernest Hemingway, Herman Melville.
Composers: Peter Tchaikovsky, Otto Klemperer...(lol... Hogan's Hero's col Klink" RL father), Peter Warlock, Irving Berlin, Charles Mingus
Artists: Vincent Van Gogh, Francesco Bassano, Michaelangelo,... way too many more. Look for yourself on Wikepeida its interesting to see how many people historically have dealt with manic depression.

Here's the catch... most of them are also suicide victims. They had no support group not even a single understanding individual to ease the suffering. The Goth scene is replete with this sort of crowd... amazingly overtalented people brilliant in their own special way. Are we depressed when we congregate? NO! That is the reason we DO form into this culture. Its not a bunch of overdressed nerds going to a dance... these are flesh and blood human beings that deserve much more credit than to be swept under the rug.

MY involvement in the scene is to not only help myself but to help nurture these extraordinary individuals... to give them a sense of family so they dont have to gun down schools in Colorado. Goth is not about age. My DJ colliege Alien Icon, turns 48 this year... other elders range well into their 50s and beyond. For me to be in tune with my afliction, I am a pillar of strength for those far worse off than myself. I developed my local scene and the newspaper to tie in other goth scenes like a blanket that bound us together.

I'm not a person that quits. I don't shy away from challenges, and I'm not as weak as some of you think. My strength comes from the support from those close to me from within the scene. Yes... we don't like to call it a religion but it IS a philosophy that guides us through life. Yes were geeks and nerds... but with a purpose.

I have talked with Alina about my diagnosis... in fact I have even warned her about the depression phases. She's mentioned similar symptoms as long stages of the dark times. Maybe that's the translator talking... maybe it Alina, I cant know for certain. But I am taking the appropriate steps to find out which is why I'm here... and STILL here despite some obvious flaming. I am doing everything in my power to stay positive and take advice as it's given. As far as my ailment, I am also doing what I can to minimize the ups and downs through the combination of medication, therapy, and my own self reflection and education.

My thoughts about the trip is that I will hopefully meet a beautiful girl and get to see a part of the world I have ALWAYS wanted to see since I was a child. I hope it works out for us, for I know that type of depression when so much equity has been imparted on such a lofty goal. I am working now on damage control and backup plans within backup plans because of the advice so far. So I thank you for the words of comfort and the warnings of deceit.

[Sculpto]

good post Mark.. for what its worth I am totally on your side even if it might not have seemed so from some of my posts.  We are kindred spirits.

[Vaughn]

They had no support group not even a single understanding individual to ease the suffering.

Today's affected certainly do. Here are just a few places to begin.

http://www.dbsalliance.org/site/PageServer?pagename=home

http://www.pendulum.org/supportgroups.html

http://www.support4hope.com/bipolar_disorder/

Part of the problem I had with the Goth society was the fact that it had become more than
just a place for my daughter to socialize - it quickly became a lifestyle - one that seemed to
encourage defiance against our efforts to really help her. It would also be naive of me to
believe that all Goths were similarly afflicted. This is not to discount your own very real condition
but to note that a significant number of young people gravitated to claim membership by virtue
of the lifestyle alone. In short, like the 50s beatnik era, the 60s hippie Haight crowd (of which I
was a member briefly in my youth), the 70s punk begun by Iggy Pop & his Stooges - I see the
movement as a magnet for those young folks with no illness but no direction - a safe harbor so
to speak for those disillusioned with the status quo. The suicidal tendency you mentioned was
one of the nightmares we were forced to reckon with on the very worst of days.

My point is that while an individual may be forced to deal with his/her condition without
familial support, there are resouces available other than a loosely organized group
that relishes the bedlam of a mosh-pit. I can only imagine that, well-versed and experienced
as you are, you often find yourself in a fatherly guidance role for those young ones really on the edge.

good post Mark.. for what its worth I am totally on your side even if it might not have seemed so from some of my posts. 

I also like Mark. His candor and eloquence are refreshing; however, my PM of encouragement last night
remains unanswered - and I have to wonder aloud if it was well-received, or flatly ignored. Regardless,
Mark, I also wish you well. 

[RussianWind]

Welcome to the Psychiatric Hotline.
If you are obsessive-compulsive, please press 1 repeatedly.
If you are co-dependent, please ask someone to press 2.
If you have multiple personalities, please press 3, 4, 5, and 6.
If you are paranoid-delusional, we know who you are and what you want. Just stay on the line so we can trace the call.
If you are schizophrenic, listen carefully and a little voice will tell you which number to press.
If you are depressed, it doesn't matter which number you press. No one will answer.
If you are delusional and occasionally hallucinate, please be aware that the thing you are holding on the side of your head is alive and about to bite off your ear.

===
Mark, it is nice that you associate yourself with great writers and musicians and you do write really well but some of your lines are really childish, like crap about black polished nails on the left toe whatever  

[Sculpto]

As evidenced from GOBs narrow minded and boring post America often suffers from a lack of cultural identity.  Early European immigrants frequently left behind whatever cultural markers and traditions they had and as the melting pot progressed that which made Euro cultures unique from region to region disappeared in the American cultural wasteland.  The onset of mass media has only made this phenomena worse.  Unfortunately the so called "normal" culture that GOB and those like him follow is restricted to driving oversized cars, shooting guns and other brainless activities.

So, along comes a guy who is part a sub culture that has sprung up rather organically and all most of you can do is make fun of him. 

The truth is, you are just showing your own immaturity and narrow mindedness and I am not afraid to say it in public.

Mark.. you will find some people here who understand you very well, most of them are not the most vocal (myself excepted) so, hang in there and we will find out the truth behind this girl and her agency and give you real advice whether or not you should visit her, and, if not, how to proceed in a more productive way than the HRB/RLM scam factory.

[Vaughn]

FWIW, two of my favorite presidents came from the Golden State...

[Blues Fairy]

How coincidental that Sculpto finds the OP his kindred spirit.   

Of course all the rest of us with low tolerance for 39-year-olds behaving like high school kids are just narrow-minded and mainstream in the worst sense of this word. 

[docetae]

This is not about to be narrow minded. There are not a  lot of things that are sure in life, but there is one for sure. When you fall and just lie on the ground asking why you are here, you do not progress. Get back on your feet and build your life with world as perspective not yourself.

Determining your own identity by assimilating all mannerism defined by a group, this is just stopping to be and the last step of hypocrisy and refusal of reality.

I am not sorry about someone who have fantasies since 2 years on a girl living on the other side of the planet. You like her ? Go there. But do not compare your little selfishness to Balzac or other people who have really created something.

One more time, we are not in the time of ships crossing the atlantic, the wall was falling 20 years ago...This is not about being goth, this is about a man who use his belonging to a group to justify his inaction and weakness.