That went well....Not

[Gator]

For acronyms, see:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/mwiki/index.php?title=RWD_Glossary

WOVO - Write One Visit One

WMVM - Write Many Visit Many.  My first trip was a WOVO.  Then I made about 20 WOVO trips with the same One, a Muscovite.  The amount of correspondence per woman is typically much less with WMVM.   

[apple47]

What's the secret code do you use here?

WMVM - ?
WOVO - ?

       WMVM   =   Write Many, Visit Many

       WOVO  =  Write One, Visit One



                                                          ...Larry

[Daveman]

Phantom,

She did not give you the benefit of any doubt.  Some RW are that "black and white," and I have problems with such an attitude.
In fact, I had a severe problem with one RW and that was the end of it.  Unfortunately, it came much later than the first meeting. 

Much of this doubt has it roots in the RW's limited perspective.  My opinion is that a RW will give you the benefit of the doubt if she is really attracted to you///interested in you.  Or at least will discuss it with you before making a definitive decision.

There must have been more than a declined credit card and driving an older truck.  Care to share?

It is good that you discovered this so early rather than after a wasted second trip.  I wish she would have made the comment about money on your second day.  That would have freed you for a backup plan (e. g., call an agency or return early to Moscow).

For some reason you said something in your telephone calls before meeting that prompted her statement, "You made me think you had money."  Don't make that mistake again.  Next time, show photos with your older truck, and when RW question you about it, say, "I don't put my money in assets that depreciate; besides, it runs like a new car."  Some women will appreciate that fact.  Others seeking a fantasy or having a limited perspective will not.

I'd suggest any newbie, or even those with a little experience, to pay close attention to Gator's words here... This is a common attitude for some RW, and IMO this attitude is best avoided like the plague.. you will NEVER get the benefit of the doubt with a woman like this, and to try to 'reform' her, or whatever you want to call it, is a futile exercise in masochism.  Take heed.

[phantom]

Wish I had of known that earlier, and would have called some agencies.  Gator, I think that perhaps there were other reasons, and she just used that one on me. (I'm sure that she really felt that way, however.)  It may have been chemistry on her part.  But, she did ask questions about the size of house, etc.  Once, during a conversation she had mentioned GM, as I once had worked for a company making parts for them.  Now, diferent.  She wanted to know, since GM was back to business, (Never mind the layoffs coming) why didn't I go back?

So, maybe chemistry, my fat belly. But, she did seem to be awfully interested in the afore mentioned things about me.

The next ones, I think I'll say I drive a '79 T-bird, and live in a one bedroom flat. 

[Sculpto]

If she really loves you she won't care the size of your wallet.  A smart and capable Russian woman doesn't need a man to support her.  (except maybe in the beginning)

I used to encounter some ladies in their mid to late 30's that would often make the comment.. "I want to stop working, I am tired from it, I want the man to do all"  I would always thank them for their honesty and excuse myself from the correspondence. 

[Daveman]

If she really loves you she won't care the size of your wallet.  A smart and capable Russian woman doesn't need a man to support her.  (except maybe in the beginning)

I used to encounter some ladies in their mid to late 30's that would often make the comment.. "I want to stop working, I am tired from it, I want the man to do all"  I would always thank them for their honesty and excuse myself from the correspondence. 

Or so much about the size of your belly either. I fluctuate between ideal weight and carrying an extra 10-20lbs on an annual basis.. at this moment I have about an extra 15lbs (due in large part, pun intended, to being fed to death by an RW).  I don't think it has caused any real problems attracting FSU ladies, (or ladies from anywhere).  Certainly some are very "body shape" oriented, especially the younger ones -- which is their prerogative, but most ladies searching for a sincere and decent man don't really obsess over a pudgy belly.   She'll whip you into shape if it bothers her. 

[phantom]

I don't really think the weight was an issue.  I think it may have been a combination of things, the wallet for starters, we often sat, and it was like some times thinking of something to say, that was probably a minor problem, if any.  I've been in relationships where that happend.  That never really played a factor in it.  So, this week, back in the saddle and get back on the horse.  Think I'll give anastasiaweb a go. 

[Taz]

Always have a backup plan. I'd also suggest looking at some of the online Russian/Ukrainian dating sites.

Glad you made it back ok. Sounds like it was a good learning experience for you without being too expensive of a lesson. The next trip will be easier. In general, don't look for a woman you need to reform in any area. It isn't going to happen and will be an exercise in frustration. There are quite a few women so don't think you can't find one that is a better match for you. If it doesn't feel right, pass and move on the next one.

I am a big proponent of WMVM but not if done in the extreme like trying to meet 20 women on one trip. Ok, it might be doable on a longer trip like a 2 weeks to a month but try and limit meetings to about 3-4 a day if going that route. Meet women for the first 2-3 days AFTER you've adapted a bit to the time change (if a factor) and have settled in a bit.

Of course others are fans of the WOVO but you both better be skilled communicators while writing or talking on the phone. An agency is definitely going to complicate this path unless they are very honest. WOVO definitely means putting all your eggs in one basket. I think this tact definitely demands a good backup plan.

Regardless of what approach you use, make sure to take contact numbers of people that could help you out if things don't go as planned. Typically you can find another resource in the area you will be in or close to it that can maybe help you put together a new plan of attack so you don't totally waste your time there.

A good friend of mine didn't bother to do that and pretty much tossed away his 2 week vacation for the year when his WOVO meeting didn't pan out. He was certain she was the one. He ended up scrambling the last week to try and salvage something of his trip. Especially critical for him since he only gets 2 weeks vacation a year. He wrote the woman and called her for about 6 months prior to going over. Sadly it didn't work out and he did the Humpty Dumpty routine (tried to pick up the pieces) at the last minute. Unfortunately some of the women he was interested in meeting weren't in town or couldn't easily meet on such short notice (so he was told). I personally find the last reason BS. If a woman really wants to meet you they will typically find a way. Of course there may be some extenuating circumstances but in general, a serious woman will find a way.

[Sculpto]

Think I'll give anastasiaweb a go. 

I hope you are joking.

[phantom]

Yes, of course I was joking. I'll be doing an agency search this week.  Does anyone know or had experience with oksanalove agency?

[Ade]

Of course others are fans of the WOVO but you both better be skilled communicators while writing or talking on the phone. An agency is definitely going to complicate this path unless they are very honest. WOVO definitely means putting all your eggs in one basket. I think this tact definitely demands a good backup plan.

That's why, ideally, you find someone with a common language that you both speak well enough to communicate in and why you wouldn't use an agency, at least, not for anything other than introductions. There's no reason why, in a WOVO scenario, that you can't note down the addresses of a couple of kosher agencies in the locality of your trip, just in case you need a few intros. Also, there's always the possibility of taking a laptop or visiting a net cafe to arrange some dates from the free sites. A WOVO hardly needs to be an "all or nothing" approach.

[Mars]

Or so much about the size of your belly either. I fluctuate between ideal weight and carrying an extra 10-20lbs on an annual basis.. at this moment I have about an extra 15lbs (due in large part, pun intended, to being fed to death by an RW).  I don't think it has caused any real problems attracting FSU ladies,

I found it interesting  that most of the FSU women I met gave some indication they preferred the man to be a little above average in weight.  Not saying they liked rolling fat, but just a little above average.  I think this ties back in history to thinking a man's weight is positively correlated with his wealth, status, etc.  That was the thinking in USA back in 1920s, 1930s, etc.

I have a small pot gut that I am always trying to get rid of.  When I mention this to the FSUW, they mostly all smiled, patted my belly and said:  "Oh it is good!"

In one situation, I set-up on a date a FSUW that I knew on a friendship only basis, with a WM.  They were close in age, education, etc.  The guy liked her quite a bit, but she later told me she couldn't really see herself in a LT relationship with the guy.  Her biggest complaint . . . . He was too thin!! Second, he was too young; even though they were the same age (early 40s)!

Height is also a concern with FSUW.  One lady told me of going on a trip with a group of friends where one man had been invited by others, specifically to be her companion.  They all had a great time but she couldn't see herself in LT relationship with the man.  The problem . . . he was a couple inches shorter than herself.  I think this situation is not specific to FSU women however; probably a universal with women.

[Mars]

Yes, of course I was joking. I'll be doing an agency search this week.  Does anyone know or had experience with oksanalove agency?

Haven't you read enough on the various posts here in several threads to get the idea that the agency route is mostly not good??

[Mars]

It was a WOVO, which turned out to be a bad idea.  . . .  Then, this is where it got almost like two children. she told me, look at me, I was not obviously up set.  Yes, I replied, I am. You're not. Yes, I am.  Well, that little childhood game went on for a minute or two.  I turned and left. 

I had almost exactly the same thing happen; i.e.  I turned and left. 

In both your case and my case, the women can merely take a short ride home, visit with their friends to discuss the silly man, and go on with their normal life that day and the next day. 

You on the other hand were a thousand miles from home, have blown thousands of dollars and scarce vacation time, and are left in a strange city with little or no contacts.

In my case, I merely got out of hearing range, got on my mobile phone and called the next woman on my WMVM list.  Never missed a beat.

[Mars]

A good friend of mine didn't bother to do that and pretty much tossed away his 2 week vacation for the year when his WOVO meeting didn't pan out. He was certain she was the one. He ended up scrambling the last week to try and salvage something of his trip. Especially critical for him since he only gets 2 weeks vacation a year. He wrote the woman and called her for about 6 months prior to going over. Sadly it didn't work out and he did the Humpty Dumpty routine (tried to pick up the pieces) at the last minute. Unfortunately some of the women he was interested in meeting weren't in town or couldn't easily meet on such short notice (so he was told). I personally find the last reason BS. If a woman really wants to meet you they will typically find a way. Of course there may be some extenuating circumstances but in general, a serious woman will find a way.

Yes, I agree the woman will find a way to meet, if she wants to.  However, there is  a big difference between trying to set up a meeting with a woman you have been corresponding with and planning to meet, and a woman that you are trying to make first contact with when your WOVO approach blows up.

When the WOVO blows up and the guy starts frantically calling or emailing gals in that city; I can certainly see why most of the women will not "really wants to meet you."  How could they "really wants to meet" someone they are hearing from just now?

[Ade]

Yes, I agree the woman will find a way to meet, if she wants to.  However, there is  a big difference between trying to set up a meeting with a woman you have been corresponding with and planning to meet, and a woman that you are trying to make first contact with when your WOVO approach blows up.

When the WOVO blows up and the guy starts frantically calling or emailing gals in that city; I can certainly see why most of the women will not "really wants to meet you."  How could they "really wants to meet" someone they are hearing from just now?

Um, spur of the moment dating sort of happens everywhere, all the time. In fact, it's probably the most common way that people meet. Strange that huh?

[Misha]

When the WOVO blows up and the guy starts frantically calling or emailing gals in that city; I can certainly see why most of the women will not "really wants to meet you."  How could they "really wants to meet" someone they are hearing from just now?

Didn't really have that problem. Could easily set up a date, as mentioned, within a day, sometimes the same day when in Russia.

[Mars]

Didn't really have that problem. Could easily set up a date, as mentioned, within a day, sometimes the same day when in Russia.

SJ: "Um, spur of the moment dating sort of happens everywhere, all the time. In fact, it's probably the most common way that people meet. Strange that huh?"

Yes, I understand and agree with both Misha and SJ.  But that was not my point.
I was addressing Taz's point about 'really wanting to meet you.' 

For instance,  in your situation Misha, I am sure there were some women who told you they couldn't make the date you were proposing that day, the next day, etc., but maybe could in a couple of weeks. 

Did you pout and say to youself, "if she really wanted to she could?"  No, you knew people have complicated lives and sometimes quick dates were not possible.  You could wait two weeks or whatever because you lived there.  But in the WOVO approach, the guy typically can't wait around two weeks.

So there is a big difference between a gal agreeing to a quick date, and assuming she 'really wants to' in the sense that she is dropping everything in her life to go on that date.

[Misha]

For instance,  in your situation Misha, I am sure there were some women who told you they couldn't make the date you were proposing that day, the next day, etc., but maybe could in a couple of weeks. 

Yes, many did, and I simply found someone else capable of meeting. I did not invest myself emotionally in any photo until I met in person.

[GQBlues]

For the OP, there are hundreds, maybe even thousands of FSUW already living in the US if that is an option for you…I do tip my hat however for making the trip to FSU.

As for the WOVO / WMVM…I went WMVM as I simply can’t emotionally invest on anyone I have never met in person. But that’s just me…

However, I’ve always spoken highly of those, like the OP, who specifically went to FSU for one reason only – to meet one woman - for better or for worst. To me this truly defines WOVO.

I can never understand the whole ‘back-up’ advice at all. I can’t imagine anyone marrying a woman who was a back-up…worst, maybe the second, third, or even fourth back-up?

I can’t understand the agency finger-walking either. I think what a lot of men mean when they infer ‘chemistry’ is, any woman of interest who’ll easily submit to their sexual advancement.

I dunno, maybe I’m wrong.

Anyway, good luck to the OP.

[ECOCKS]

GQ, I never can understand guys who go on a date thinking they have picked out THE ONE to marry. What an expectation to carry as you go through the date? Then there is all that added tension as you travel around the world to pick her up. So, there is no "marry the backup" (I hope) for most guys in this situation. There is meeting another person for a date to see how it works out.

Different people have different dating habits.

When I was in HS and college, I dated one gal at a time and it was very rare that I would ask out a second gal while still dating another. Then again, I was surrounded by women/girls I knew and it was no big deal after a breakup or "just not into you realization" to move on to someone else to date.

After I moved out to a completely different area of the country, 2000 miles from where I grew up I began dating 2-3 concurrently to see how things went. So, for me it sounds perfectly reasonable (if not pretty darn smart) to establish a pool of interesting women to visit, date and see what develops.

I simply cannot imagine the risk of taking 2-3 weeks of vacation and hopping around the world to see if one person is THE ONE for me. As so many stories describe, if it falls apart, whether on the first date or on the way to the airport, the sense of wasted effort and time would be an enormous setback as we contemplate searching again, building the email/initial contact relationship, rebuilding vacation time and preparing for another vacation cycle.

Maybe someone who is younger, richer and has an enormous amount of free time can see this as a good strategy, but it doesn't strike me as very effective for most folks.

OTOH, each person is different in terms of the resources they will allocate to this venture and risks they are willing to accept.

I don't recommend it, but each person makes their own decisions and I wish them luck even if I suspect I see how it will go.

[remiel6]

GQ, I have often wondered about your Chemistry comment myself. It's not that sexual advances aren't important, but I hope guys aren't writing a woman off simply because she wouldn't put out on the first date. I do not think this applies to Phantom, just the term chemistry can be an ellusive thing. It means different things to different people. Yes, you want someone to be romantic with but IMO a successful relationship needs two people who respect each other, and well..... having something to talk about other than do you want to do it on the sofa or the bed, or the floor, or the kitchen sink. Maybe I'm wrong, dunno, as I've never been married, but still. maybe for some "pass the cigarettes" and "buy me a new porche" is enough for a good marriage, but I doubt it.

[JR]

I went WMVM as I simply can’t emotionally invest on anyone I have never met in person. But that’s just me…

I can never understand the whole ‘back-up’ advice at all. I can’t imagine anyone marrying a woman who was a back-up…worst, maybe the second, third, or even fourth back-up?

WMVM = Built-in back up plan

[ECOCKS]

Hmmm, in my estimation, sex is a only a small part of the composition of "chemistry".

[Misha]

Hmmm, in my estimation, sex is a only a small part of the composition of "chemistry".

Why? Chemistry implies sexual attraction.