RW's concept of time

[Taz]

I don't know if this is just particular to the RW I've met or dated but they seem to have a different concept of time than I do. If I am told "I'll be ready in 15 minutes", it means I should check back in about 30 minutes to see if she will be ready in about 15 minutes from then. If I am told "I'll call you in an hour" it means don't expect anything sooner than 90 minutes. This has pretty much been my universal experience across all RW all over the FSU, friends, more than friends or otherwise.

The one quasi-exception to this was my ex Russian wife. She was like this BEFORE she came to live in the US. She gradually changed after living her for a while as she realized punctuality is important EXCEPT if we went to a party at other Russians house. One time we showed up on time at a local RW's house and her hair was still in curlers and had no makeup. She came to the door and was shocked to see us. It was 8PM (time the party was supposed to start) and we were there at 8:10. She needed at least another 45 minutes to get ready from the looks of it. So we came back at about 9PM. Other Russians didn't show up until about 9:30PM.

I have noticed that as they get older, tardiness is less of an issue but still present. I think a lot of the reason the younger ones are tardy is they spend so much time "getting ready" for their date. They want to look their best. Once they are married and they don't think their husband is as likely to go anywhere, they spend less time getting ready or don't care as much. While this isn't true in all cases, I've seen it often enough to be aware of it. I typically gravitated toward women that use less makeup. I like the natural look better in general. A plus to this is the reduced time needed to get ready.

On a recent trip, I found the best way to deal with my woman getting ready was to advance all the clocks around us. That way we actually had a chance to make dinner while they were still serving it at our hotel. I'd typically give her the one hour warning until they stopped serving dinner. That was in reality a 90 minute warning not the 60 minute warning like she thought. She was always so proud of herself that we were never late for dinner as we always seemed to squeak in under the closing bell. I never had the heart to tell her that we were operating in a different time zone, the time zone of RW...

On a similar note, I couldn't understand the lengthy time to get ready for bed. I typically take a shower in the morning before work. It is essential that I do that or my hair is terrible and I definitely need to shave every morning. Of course it is a good practice to shower before bed. Why get in your nice clean sheets if you are all dirty and grimy from work? Of course your RW will appreciate this if you don't already do it. If you don't already do this, get in the habit. Your RW will notice it for sure.

While this may vary a bit from RW to RW, it has pretty much been the same routine even if the actually times required vary a bit. At some indeterminate time before bedtime, your RW will disappear into the bathroom. What goes on there is a secret as closely guarded as the gold at Fort Knox or President Clinton's little black book. The bathroom is apparently the inner sanctum of RW. What transpires must have been learned through ancient rituals passed down through many generations of RW through family and friends. If you ever learned what goes on there, the punishment is like death or banishment. Banishment from the bedroom of a RW is probably than death so choose death if given the option.

Now, under penalty of banishment, I am about the reveal the secrets I learned while actually being invited into this inner sanctum to witness the body purification ritual that is performed before the nocturnal sacrifice. The names and locations have been changed to protect the innocent and guilty. If this bears any similarity to your RW, I know nothing. It wasn't her I was with. I'll call the RW for this tale as Katya. Katya had a cosmetic bag that would rival a Lancome factory in its wide variety of cosmetics. She had everything apparently known to womankind to enhance her beauty. It was all arranged by color and purpose. Hell, it was better organized and equipped than a Snap-On toolbox at a NASCAR Race. EVERYTHING had its place! I do mean E-V-E-R-Y-THING!!!

There were creams and lotions I'd never heard of before and I do have a fair bit of experience with women. She had already decided what evening wear she was going to wear to bed (unbeknownst to me at that time) and had already determined what she needed to give this outfit the maximum impact. I wasn't going to get to see this part until show time but I learned about it later. Since there was a time constraint, it was important that we both get ready at the same time so that is the reason I was permitted at this time.

I set about brushing my teeth. I had given her the option of taking a shower first as I knew she'd need more time to have her hair dry. She didn't want to use a "fan" to dry it so it had to have some time to dry naturally. As she stepped into the shower, I of course couldn't help admire her curves but I was quickly struck by the fact that she already had her "tools" arranged in the shower as well. OMG, it wasn't a shower she was taking, it was going to be a beauty pit stop. She had oils, creams, intimate gel, depilatory cream, razor, loofas, other scrubby things and God only knows what else. She fired up the water and the best I can describe the scene before me was a super duper deluxe car wash with wax, polish, sealant and tire scrub. 

I don't think there was a crevice left unscrubbed or defoliated. Ever square centimeter of skin or hair had some sort of cream or oil applied. Apparently I was just standing there mouth agape with toothpaste dribbling down my chin. She motioned for me to come over and invited me in. Quite honestly I was a bit stunned. I didn't know what she really wanted. Apparently she wanted to give me the whole body treatment as well. Who am I to refuse a gorgeous Russian woman inviting me into the shower with her? Isn't this the stuff of men's fantasies? 

I took a few cautious steps and she motioned me to hurry. I hopped into the tub and immediately embraced. OMG, she was softer than a baby's bottom. Her skin was amazingly soft. Just as I was thinking impure thoughts, it hit me. The first loofa that is. Heck, I don't think it was a loofa. It felt more like 40 grit sandpaper. That stuff hurt. What the hell, she was peeling down layers of skin faster than a floor sander. I mean she went to town on me. She spared nothing on me. Just about the time I was getting over the shock and was wondering if I would ever regain feeling in some of my skin she switched to the 80 grit "sandpaper". This went on until she got down to the super fine grit sandpaper somewhere around 400 or so. My skin was red as hell and very tender to the touch. She gave me this "poor baby" look in a very sweet way and then started to lather me down with oil. Now I had died and gone to heaven. This was amazing. I thought I was going to melt and ooze down the bath drain. I was so relaxed I could barely stand up.

She kicked me out of the shower so she could finish up. What the heck did she have left to do, get out the Roto-Rooter and take care of areas I wasn't allowed to see? I was asked to leave the bathroom at this time but I was told I could come back later. Sure, I need to do a few things myself.

After about 15 minutes, I was invited back in. While I was shaving, she set about doing her makeup. She was an obvious artist at makeup. A little touch of this, a dab of that, a quick bit of eyeliner here and mascara there. It was like watching time lapse photography of a building being constructed. After it was all done, I could hardly tell what she had done. Nothing was obvious as it all went so well together. It all looked "natural". So while I like the natural look, she looked pretty much the same as before the makeup but it just enhanced her natural beauty. She went through all this effort obviously to look good for me. I appreciated it but she looked great without any makeup. Just a little lipstick and I'd have been just as happy with her appearance. She was beautiful no matter whether she was wearing makeup or no. She obviously felt better about her appearance wearing it so I didn't say a word. If she is happy, I am much more likely to be happy too.

About this time I was asked to leave again and not return. I retired to the bed and waited for her. All I can say was she looked amazing. Start to finish it was easily 90 minutes for her to get ready. While this might have been a bit longer than usual, it wasn't much longer than usual. I'd say unless I rushed her a bit, it was typically about an hour for her to get ready for bed. Of course your mileage may vary. Some women are faster but I'd say the average is about 45-60 minutes. One woman I dated was almost always about 90 minutes or so to get ready for bed. A lot would depend on if they were washing their hair or not. That is when it was always the longest.

The one thing in common is they all would tell me they'd only need 15-20 minutes to get ready for bed.

I'd be curious to see if other guys’ experiences mirror mine. Ok, maybe not the shower part, but the concept of time issues.

[Shadow]

The only concept of time that MrsShadow seems to have problems with is the annoying habit of shopkeepers to be closed at certain days or times.

[GQBlues]

Wow Taz...

I don't know but my wife actually, if anything, removes her blushes (make-up) before coming to bed. I must confess I don't believe I've been with a woman that actually put on her make-up to come to bed. But I'm like you, I would rather be with a woman who didn't rely too much on facial plaster works to feel 'enhanced'.

Being fashionably late however hasn't been that much of a different with RWs in my experience compared to everyone else. About the only time-related nuance that initially drove me nuts about my wife in the beginning is the amount of it she used sleeping everyday. The first few months after she arrived, I don't think she had any idea how LA looked like before 11:30 AM.

What I (and hubbies) have noticed somewhat hilarious about these RWs is in the way they plan things. It's a comedy show unfolding before our eyes. For amusement, we'll intentionally set up activities which require planning on their part and then just watched the chapters play itself out. Pretty funny to watch.

[Taz]

I can't say she always put on makeup but it was a special evening. Basically the process was the same without the makeup for most nights before bed. However EVERY night before dinner (if eating out, not in th apartment) she always would disappear to the bathroom and apply all the finishing touches.

Based on the time taken every night, I can only assume (since I wasn't usually privy to such information) that the deep cleaning scrub took place. The RW I've dated typically have nice skin so I assume they all did something similar.

I admire they effort most of them put into looking good for their man. OTOH sometimes it consumes a huge amount of time. None of this hurry and get to dinner. I learned long ago to plan well in advance if I had to be someplace at a certain time. Some day maybe I'll relate how we almost missed a flight thanks to the difference in the RW's time zone and the actual local time zone. Suffice to say I was in a drop dead run, carrying ALL of our carry-on luggage, in a sprint to make the absolute final call for our flight. All the while she is looking at me like I am a maniac. If I didn't speak Russian we would have definitely missed our flight. Missing that flight would have meant waiting at least a day or 2 to make it back. It was a chartered flight and no direct flights cheaper than a kings ransom were available as I had already researched that. Missing that flight would have meant cascading issues and I would have missed my flight back to the US and had negative work implications.

[Shadow]

Missing a flight ? Well on our first trip back to Moscow it was me who overslept.
We did miss the flight, but thanks to the helpfull staff got changed to another one that arrived actually 15 minutes earlier. The waiting parents were suprised at how we managed to get through customs that fast. 

[KenC]

Taz,
Of course you are correct on RW having their own time zone.  What I never was able to comprehend was that there was NEVER and remorse or guilt for being late either.  ???  A man experienced with RW will learn to move up time 1/2 hour for dinners and movies but one full hour for critical events like take offs.    After a while, you may need to be creative even with this as they will learn your tricks and rely on the "extra" time you lied about.

Regarding the bedtime regimen, if Lena is an example of a typical RW, their attention to feminine hygiene has to be the best in the world!  Not that I have been with dirty AW mind you, but RW seem to take it to a new high.

A reminder to all newbies- When a RW interupts your evening to shower, get ready for the time of your life!

GQ,
My experience with sleep patterns of RW follows your post too.  Man, they LOVE to sleep!

Shadow,
I used to pull the reverse of the store closing thingy.  I would agree to a "mall run" when I knew it would only be open for another hour or less. 
KenC

[Taz]

A reminder to all newbies- When a RW interupts your evening to shower, get ready for the time of your life!

Now you've gone and told about the surprise. I purposely left that out to leave a little mystique for the women... 

Now that the cat is out of the bag that I carefully tried to keep close, all I can say is if the regularly scheduled programming gets interrupted for her to take a shower, odds are good she is definitely going to rock your world...

In my personal experience, RW are definitely meticulous when it comes to feminine hygiene as well.

[Blues Fairy]

Constant tardiness is actually a form of passive-aggressive behavior which many FSU people suffer from as a result of their oppressive upbringing. 

[ScottinCrimea]

With my wife I've learned that everything will take "20 minutes".  This only tells me that it will be at least 40 minutes.  "Chas" means sometime today.

[KenC]

Constant tardiness is actually a form of passive-aggressive behavior which many FSU people suffer from as a result of their oppressive upbringing. 

Wow, BF, I would like to hear more on this.  (Explains a lot to me)
KenC

[Mars]

My experience has been a bit different than that spoken by other men above.  Less than 5% of the FSU women I met were ever late for any meeting.

And for those who have lived with me, they were generally ready to go out right on the button.  It was me who was usually 3-5 minutes late in getting ready to leave.

Most put on little or no makeup for going out.  And none made a big deal about getting ready for bed other than the quick shower bit.  Most were pretty clean overall but a couple I did have to demonstrate to them the 100% best way to wash up the most critical area.

My ladies were all over 40 y.o. and highly educated, just for reference.

[Taz]

That's older than the age group I've dated. All the women I've dated have been in the 22 to 34 age range. Maybe that accounts for some of the difference. I do notice the younger women in general putting more emphasis on their looks. Not that older women aren't as concerned about it but in many cases the bloom has already fallen from the rose so to speak.

It is sad that as men age, they are considered more "distinguished" whereas often an older woman is just considered "old". I am not talking about women like Demi Moore or Halle Berry but average women. It is definitely a double standard.

I am not saying that there are not "older" attractive RW as of course there are. I do think that there is a greater difference between the beauty of a RW in her 20's and then later in her mid 40's than an equivalent AW. To put it another way, they start out more beautiful than the average AW but by their mid 40's the average AW has caught and stays more attractive later in life. Of course that is just my perception. I know genetics plays a big effect in this. I think that the horrid environmental factors that many women have to deal with really take their toll on RW in general.

I sort of a theory regarding this. Get a woman out of that environment soon enough and you can prevent a lot of the damage from occurring. I have a good friend from Latvia. She got out in time. Her younger sister has aged much harder than she has. The difference primarily is my friend has lived in the US for the last 13 years and came her while early enough in her 30's to make a difference. She is one of the most attractive late 40 year old RW I've ever seen. Very few were ever as attractive as this woman at her age. I could only imagine how much better she could have been if she didn't smoke. Her sister doesn't but the other ecological factors have taken their toll. Just something to consider about where your woman comes from and what the long term ecological effects she might suffer from in the future.

[I/O]

Constant tardiness is actually a form of passive-aggressive behavior which many FSU people suffer from as a result of their oppressive upbringing. 

Hmmm Interesting comment, I had it pegged (in part) as form of resistance (at times) which I guess amounts to much the same thing.

This one is a real can of worms and the freshmen should listen up if BF and others come forward with some thoughts. As far as dealing with it is concerned, I tend to flip and flop a bit depending on the particular situation. I have smashed it at times with all the unpleasantness that goes with that, other times I have just ignored it and yet other times (going somewhere) I have just gone .................. I have to say Mrs I/O has made giant strides in this area and at least now realises the importance of time lines if she still fails to meet them sometimes. I think she is over the worst hurdle and that is recognition................

This one can stretch your patience to the limit at times and to be honest the behaviour comes across as quite childish which tends to bare out BF's comment above. I also (perhaps mistakenly) in the early stages put part of it down to a recently graduated university student who had never really had to conform to the pressures of commercial and social reality. A little immature if you like. To be fair, this is not entirely limited to RW, I have struck it with other W but not to quite the same extent. Interesting and worthy thread.

[Blues Fairy]

Wow, BF, I would like to hear more on this.  (Explains a lot to me)
KenC

There's a wealth of information on P/A behavior on the web.  As for the parenting style in the FSU, I'm certainly not saying all families practiced oppressive/controlling upbringing, but it was certainly widely prevalent.  Children brought up in a "shut up and do what I say" modus operandi often grow up accustomed to subconsciously resisting the authority and the tasks they are facing in a variety of passive ways, tardiness and procrastination being the most typical of them.  

[GQBlues]

Children brought up in a "shut up and do what I say" modus operandi often grow up accustomed to subconsciously resisting the authority and the tasks they are facing in a variety of passive ways, tardiness and procrastination being the most typical of them.

Sorry...

How very interesting. I actually had an impression counter to this in trying to make sense of the seeming defiance to authority behavior...

My wife have a nephew that I no longer allow to visit us anytime soon unless his mother, and himself, learn to control his behavior. I'm not at all a fan of children in my home unless their parents are able to control their wild behaviors. Three of her friends are also mums these days and their children are also displaying very unruly behavior and an obvious strong defiance to their mothers. They all blatantly ignore their respective mums.

Once, when my wife's nephew was with us and they were in a bus and the child was stomping around inside it while his mum and my wife were desperately trying to sit him down. He simply flails at their arms away and completely ignores their plea. After a few minutes, an elderly Russian woman riding in the bus told my wife and her sister...

"Leave him alone. You should not try and take the man out of the boy. This is not how boys are supposed to be raised!"  

I remember asking my wife once if she could please try to handle her nephew to tone him down some and her reply was..."I'm sorry but I have no power over him.."

Pretty shocking to say the least....

Maybe time's have changed?

[Blues Fairy]

Three of her friends are also mums these days and their children are also displaying very unruly behavior and an obvious strong defiance to their mothers. They all blatantly ignore their respective mums.

This has nothing to do with PA, by definition.  

[JR]

LOL, I remember the loofas and the scrubbing..."scrub my back, harder, HARDER!" "Oooooo", I think, "nice"  Now go away! "boooo" I think

Always late. I used to get ready then do a slow steam while watching the clock. After awhile I would just wait until about 15 minutes until departure then shower and get ready. She would say "You are going to make us late!" I'd still be waiting for her at the door when it came time to leave.

I handled the tarty thing a little differently. I just told her we had to to leave a X time to get there on time since she didn't know the traffic patterns. I just advanced the departure times by about 45 minutes and we would arrive at the Hollywood Bowl pretty much on time

[Vaughn]

My wife has always sworn that time passes faster here than in Russia...

I attribute that feeling to the relative rat-race pace of the local area
compared to the laid-back tempo of her home Republic.

Aside from that, she is the most punctual woman I've ever known. She
manages time well, even if it passes more quickly in the USA.   

[KenC]

This has nothing to do with PA, by definition.  

From Wikipedia:

A pervasive pattern of negativistic attitudes and passive resistance to demands for adequate performance, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicted by four (or more) of the following:

passively resists fullfiling routine social and occupational tasks
Timeliness?

complains of being misunderstood and unappreciated by others
is sullen and argumentative
An argumentative RW?  You got to be kidding me.

unreasonably criticizes and scorns authority
 

expresses envy and resentment toward those apparently more fortunate
Crabs in a bucket?

voices exaggerated and persistent complaints of personal misfortune
alternates between hostile defiance and contrition
Wow!

A heck of a list with many direct hits IMO.

GQ,
I think BF's comment regarding oppressive and controlling behavior is in reference to the mother's upbringing in the fsu and not necessarily how they raise their own children now.  In my mind, the anything goes now may even be a lash back to their own childhood.  Doing just the opposite of how they were raised.
KenC

[Blues Fairy]

I think BF's comment regarding oppressive and controlling behavior is in reference to the mother's upbringing in the fsu and not necessarily how they raise their own children now.  In my mind, the anything goes now may even be a lash back to their own childhood.  Doing just the opposite of how they were raised.

Wild behavior could well be the result of oppressive parenting, just not quite oppressive enough to quell the open rebellion.  Controlling single moms will typically struggle with such unruly behavior of their kids.  PA, however, is a result of repressed anger, typically in families where open expression of negative emotions is unwelcome and strictly punished.

[Boethius]

It is sad that as men age, they are considered more "distinguished" whereas often an older woman is just considered "old". I am not talking about women like Demi Moore or Halle Berry but average women. It is definitely a double standard.

The only people who believe this are "old" men.  I am not talking about men like Johnny Depp or George Clooney, but average men.  

Being late is viewed as disrespectful in Ukraine.  Here, if I am invited to a party, I will show up about 15 minutes after the scheduled time as that is what is "understood".  My husband could never understand that.  However, the "time differential" does not extend to business.

[GQBlues]

GQ,
I think BF's comment regarding oppressive and controlling behavior is in reference to the mother's upbringing in the fsu and not necessarily how they raise their own children now.  In my mind, the anything goes now may even be a lash back to their own childhood.  Doing just the opposite of how they were raised.
KenC

I agree Ken. BF obviously is much more learned with this as mine was complied as a casual observer. It was the defiance to authority that caught my eye. You will remember my little hellboy. I never saw a boy take over and overwhelm a room of 5 adults. It was unbelievable.

[Mars]

It is sad that as men age, they are considered more "distinguished" whereas often an older woman is just considered "old".

The only people who believe this are "old" men.  I am not talking about men like Johnny Depp or George Clooney, but average men.  

Being late is viewed as disrespectful in Ukraine.  Here, if I am invited to a party, I will show up about 15 minutes after the scheduled time as that is what is "understood".  My husband could never understand that.  However, the "time differential" does not extend to business.

I strongly disagree that it is old men who think this.

I have never heard it said by men of any age.  However, I have heard 5 or more women say these words.  These were female family members and family friends, not some woman who was trying to be nice to me.  And the words weren't directed toward my looks, but rather toward husband and wife couples we all knew.

The specific words I heard were more along the lines of:  As the man ages he becomes more handsome; as the woman ages she becomes less attractive.

And, starting a few years back when I started thinking about this and taking careful looks at couples whom I knew (and knew their ages), I came to conclusion that it is true in the vast majority of cases.

And in the case of time:  As I said in my earlier post; I didn't encounter the issue of FSUW being habitually late.  But overwhelmingly other men here report they have.  So it must be very pervasive.

Thus I think it does little good to say, as you do, "it is viewed as disrespectful."  Disrespectful or not; it is a widespread habit.

Oftentimes, in defense of genders, a culture or nation, etc., I think people state what they wish or hope to be the case rather than stating the true situation.

[Boethius]

When people say a man is "distinguished", it typically means "old but well preserved".  That is not what Taz was saying.

I wasn't commenting on Ukrainians' habits on timeliness.  But, I do know socially, they are far less flexible with time than Canadians are.  Business wise, it is the exact opposite.

[KenC]

I agree Ken. BF obviously is much more learned with this as mine was complied as a casual observer. It was the defiance to authority that caught my eye. You will remember my little hellboy. I never saw a boy take over and overwhelm a room of 5 adults. It was unbelievable.

GQ,
Yes, I remember the boy misbehaving in the restaurant.  I chalked it off to a sugar and excitement "high" from Seaworld IIRC.  Do you have any children?  Just curious.    BTW, misbehaving children in good restaurants is a pet peeve of mine.  I don't remember your nephew being so bad, but maybe I have been conditioned by the hordes of unruly Asian kids here in San Diego.   I have actually complained to the management of some restaurants that "If I had wanted to go to Chucky Cheese, I would not have come to their restaurant."
KenC