Who comes first: Spouse or children

[Mars]

In several other threads, there is always some mention of FSUW putting their children first in all situations, particularly with respect to a WM husband.

I am wondering about if this is the 'correct or right' order.

Now before people get all uptight, I am not talking about abandoning a child in favor of a man (or woman) or not doing everything possible to raise and care for a child properly.  I am talking about the simple ordering of relationships when conflicts arise.

For  instance, lets just start with some simple events.  The husband wants to go on vacation to X place and the previously existing child of FSUW wants to go to Y place.  No compromise can be reached, so the wife must make deciding vote.

This simple example can be expanded to other simple examples and then on to more complex situations, none of which endanger the health, well being or future of the child - - - but just situations where the FSUW must make decisions to back either the husband or the child.

As some background for my thoughts on this, many years back an older female relative of mine got remarried after her husband died.  There were many conflicts between new husband and her existing minor children.  She counseled with her minister and he advised her that she must always put the husband first in her life.

[ECOCKS]

I would suspect that the woman in your scenario would side with the child more than half the time. Selfishness (of the husband) is the reaction that strikes me in that situation.

My belief is that no one should be putting children ahead of the spouse OR their spouse ahead of their children. What both adults should be doing is putting their family goals, needs and desires ahead of each individual.

[Blues Fairy]

For  instance, lets just start with some simple events.  The husband wants to go on vacation to X place and the previously existing child of FSUW wants to go to Y place.  No compromise can be reached, so the wife must make deciding vote.

My vote would be to cancel the vacation until the warring parties reach a compromise.  Now that they're stuck with each other they have got to learn how to do it.

In more complex situations, my vote would be on the side of the one who is NOT behaving like a jerk.  If both do, both get a smack from me and they still have to work it out themselves. 

[Misha]

FSUW must make decisions to back either the husband or the child.

As usual, I will be opinionated and state that the parents should be making the decisions and under no circumstances should the mother or the father be the "tie-breaker" having to choose between husband and children. This is the way I believe decisions should be made: parents consult with children, parents discuss, parents come to a decision and parents do not waver once they have made the decision. When the kids are 18 and living on their own, then they have the right to decide where they want to go on vacation with or without their parents.

[remiel6]

lol - I love BF's response and although I am not married with kids, so my opinion does not count here, for the record I love this reply, sounds very diplomatic to me 

[GQBlues]

A fairly subjective question, but since there's no premise made regarding destinations/locations, etc...

Some scenarios:

Vacation - I'll likely handle this in a way where I can send the child/children to a summer camp catered to their respective ages then time that period to go to on a vacation with my wife.

If the question is general in its applicability (any serious matter impacting the family unit), I would hope the Mom uses a rational and a more mature disposition. At the very least, discuss it. If in this situation a discussion in not an option, then I think you have a bigger problem in the relationship than merely choosing between spouse/child/ren. I'd think the same way if the situation is reversed (if they were my children).

If the situation involves geographical e.g. if living in an area where the child/children will get into a higher rated school system but would also result in me having to drive an hour one way, everyday to get to work - then I'd put the children's interest first and make the drive. However, if a job opportunity presented itself where we needed to move to another state and that opportunity will more than enhance our current standard of living, then I'll likely discuss the situation and enroll the child/ren into private schools.

There are things in a family life that are more suited for the parents to be making the decision for the unit never the child/ren. If a Mum decides to cater the her child/ren's whims regardless of implications and family interest, especially if those kids were not mine........I'd get a vicious Rotweiller who likes to eat children.

[Phil dAmore]

Experience has shown that no matter how much she loves you, she will always love her own children more. This remains true no matter how old the children are.

As devoted as Nina was to me she would drop everything at any time to run to her daughter's side when the phone rang.

On more than one occasion that phone call came when Nina and I were, shall we say, involved. Guess who ended up in an empty bed when Nina ran off to be with her daughter?

It's one of the reasons the relationship ultimately failed.  

[Misha]

As devoted as Nina was to me she would drop everything at any time to run to her daughter's side when the phone rang.

I presume that her daughter was already a grown woman.

It's one of the reasons the relationship ultimately failed.  

No wonder. At some point, mother's have to cut the apron strings and let their grown children live their lives, and likewise grown children do the same for their parents.

[CallMeSasha]

My vote would be to cancel the vacation until the warring parties reach a compromise. 

from my experience the only form of compromise is 

[remiel6]

That is really unfortunate Phil.
I think the wise person is one who always makes those they are with feel like they are the most important in the world.
I like your analysis GQ, but when it comes to vacations I will offer this. My parents took my brother, sister and I every summer on a vacation. We were never asked where we wanted to go, although we offered our opinions quickly and often. We always wanted to go to places like Disneyworld or amusement parks etc... My parents instead took us to museums and historical places. I enjoyed it at the time. They usually found small ways to  keep us from driving them nuts, ie lots of time at hotel swimming pools, but as kids Disney would have always been cool. As I got older and today I am very glad my parents took me to all those places. I have an appreciation for history and culture that I would not have had otherwise. I learned a lot.
If you asked my parents how we reacted to visiting mount Vernon instead of Micky they would tell you we screamed and yelled and threw temper tantrums, but he we shut up eventually. We were kids, our complaining only lasted till we found something else to occupy our time.
(for the record, we did eventually get to disneyworld  )

[viking]

I presume that her daughter was already a grown woman.

No wonder. At some point, mother's have to cut the apron strings and let their grown children live their lives, and likewise grown children do the same for their parents.

I find this interesting. One of the reasons why marriage failed was becuse my wife, after time, became more of a mother ( but a good one ) than a wife and could not find the right balance between the two. I understand the bonds between a mother and her children but you cannot ignore your spouse either. If the child has only a minor issue that can wait it is one thing. A significant issue is quite another.

I am now having a discussion with my fiancee. She will be here in early 2010. But her son, who will be 20 and just coming out of the army, will not be able to join us for several months later. She insists that she must go back to be with him, for his visa interview, and come back on the plane with him. He speaks no english and she is afraid that he will not find the right gate for his flight. I understand her concerns, but I have a daughter, the exact same age, who has been living on her own, at a university, and seems to have no problem taking off for europe, some for her studies and some time just to explore, and neither her mother or I have any real concerns about it.( yeah, we will worry a bit and ask for frequent updates on skype and so forth)

So here we have a 20yo woman who can go to europe for several months on her own, but a man the same age, coming out of the army, who needs ( so my fiancee thinks) help in getting on a plane for a non stop flight. "He needs me", she says. I think this man is prefectly capable of doing this on his own.

I know there are cultural differences here, but would I be making a mistake in standing my ground that now is the time to "cut the cord" ? And further, of course, what will happen when he is finally here?

[Blues Fairy]

a man the same age, coming out of the army, who needs (so my fiancee thinks) help in getting on a plane for a non stop flight. "He needs me", she says. I think this man is prefectly capable of doing this on his own.

Did she actually ask her son what he needs and what he doesn't?  You should urge her to do so.  I'm pretty sure he'll say he'll be alright without his mommy flying to meet him. 

[remiel6]

You raise a valid point, i would note however that all airports have signs in English, your daughters native tongue, but outside the FSU he will not see a sign in Russian anywhere. I might suggest a compromise. For example, he's an adult and can do the interview by himself IMO, so in regards to the flight have him take a flight from moscow direct to NY or someplace like that with not intervening airport and have your wife meet him at JFK to help him the rest of the way. just an idea

[viking]

BF

I met this man a few weeks ago. He is not the clingy type by any means. But mommy is pulling the strings. She has been told by others to stop babying him, but so far she still feels she must be there. And she feels pretty strongly about it. I have sidelined the issue a bit as we have more importatn matters before us and he will not be able to come here for at least another 10 months. So there is some time to resolve this later. But it is still a concern to me as he will be living under my roof. I raised my daughters to be more independant, and they are. So my mindset is on a somewhat different page. I dont want to start a war here, but I do feel he can do this trip on his own.

[Misha]

He speaks no english and she is afraid that he will not find the right gate for his flight.

Umm, won't he be flying out of his own country where they speak his language? If it is a direct flight, he should have no problems (he is not an 8-year-old child after all). At best, he should need a few messages that can be printed out asking for help or for passport controls and customs explaining who he is and where he is going. He won't be the first, nor the last, unilingual Russian-speaker who has flown internationally without getting lost.  

 

[Misha]

he will not be able to come here for at least another 10 months. So there is some time to resolve this later

Ten months may not be enough time to resolve such issues 

[viking]

Rem

Exactly what I had in mind. His interview is a non starter since he will already been approved under his mother. He just basically needs to show up with some paperwork ( all in Russian) and get his stamp. Flying from Kiev is also a non starter, since he can read everything in Russian up and until he lands. And a plane from any Russian airport is bound to have others who are bi-lingual and can help him. And I am only a few minutes from JFK. Might even meet a pretty girl on the way?

[viking]

The issue here though, is not him. It is her belief that she is needed. And how far that transcends into our lives here.

[Blues Fairy]

I have sidelined the issue a bit as we have more importatn matters before us and he will not be able to come here for at least another 10 months. So there is some time to resolve this later. But it is still a concern to me as he will be living under my roof. I raised my daughters to be more independant, and they are. So my mindset is on a somewhat different page. I dont want to start a war here, but I do feel he can do this trip on his own

Viking, better deal with it now so you can set the tone in your relationship.  It may become a heck of an issue when they are both living with you.  I think it's important that you make your mindset known to her NOW and let her do all her mothering and babying at her own expense, not at yours.  You set the rules under your roof, at least concerning trips, finances etc.

Besides, 10 months is surely enough for the "baby" to learn some English?!

Might even meet a pretty girl on the way?

Maybe that's what Mommy is so afraid of?  :evil:

[Misha]

Viking, better deal with it now so you can set the tone in your relationship.

Well said. I agree that if you do not talk about this now and sort out your expectations, this will potentially cause a lot of stress on your relationship in the future.

[KenC]

Mars,
My past experience is similar to Viking.  In the 20 years of marriage, my first ex and I put our kids ahead of everything else for 17 of them.  However, on the subject of vacations, there are certain decisions where you consider your children's wishes but they do not necessarily have a "vote" in the matter.    Needless to say, our kids had more than their fair share of Disney World trips.  To the point of boredom.

Because we built our life around the children, my ex had a difficult time when the kids grew into independent teenagers and no longer needed her constant care and attention.  When our marriage started to break down, we went for counseling with a great clinical psychologist.  "Family order" was one of the main topics of discusion.  My ex and I were both screwed up but in different ways.  According to this psychologist the correct order of priorities were "Yourself first, your spouse second and your children third."  Believe me when I say I have spent years thinking about this and I have to agree.  Now this doesn't mean you fulfill everything you want before you consider your wife and then children, but if you are not happy, how can you make the others you love happy?  And of course there has to be some compromise involved too.  However, you cannot compromise everything.

Marrying a woman with a child from a previous relationship skews this a bit.  Sometimes more than just a "bit."  You may indeed move down a notch to #3 in her priorities.  This is much more common with younger kids than with adults.  The gap between #2 and #3 can be small or large.  And her order may indeed change once the "child" is an independent adult living on his own.  But then again, maybe not.  Your milage may vary.  Just some things to ponder.
KenC

[GQBlues]

(for the record, we did eventually get to disneyworld  )

Yes, I do understand the point you make remie...and I can emphatize. Which is why I believe discretions are best left for parents to an extent. My step-Dad used to always take us on vacations thinking much the same way as yours did except he's the type of guy that would suffer from serious sinus congestion when the temp dips below freezing, which for him was 90 degrees. He used to lug us around in places like Arizona mid-summer in a car w/out AC, with myself and two of my brothers slowly melting in the backseat.

We did learn a lot about lives of native Americans and what they had to endure - in more ways than one  

Viking-

I am curious as I was a child who got here by way of my step-Dad's marriage to mum. But isn't 18 considered the cutoff age where he's now considered an adult and would likely have to wait for her to become an American citizen?

As for the situation with his travel...when my in-laws flew in (they didn't speak English), I emailed cue (flash) cards detailing flight numbers, assistance for gate direction, etc... I even had a card to show the POE officer that if they had a question to call me on my cell..etc.

Lastly, from a child's POV, my Step-Dad literally took the hands-off approach with me after my arrival and left it up to my mother. His reason was 'I was already set in my ways'. IMHO, that was pretty crummy. It alienated me from him. I left home before I turned 18 so as not put too much pressure on my mother and their marriage. I never felt part of his family unit. FWIW.

[BC]

I think we both place the kids first and us second..

It does take a time to adjust though, and it's not easy.

From natural preference to sibling rivalry.. it's all in the mix and can get quite complex.

[viking]

BF

He is in the army now so little to no chance of learning any english soon and will have only a few months after leaving before coming here to learn some basic things. I spoke with him and made it clear that he must and will english as soon as possible. He asked about working here and I told him it would be very difficult without this knowledge. He agrees with me and understands. She understands this as well. Here we have an agreement.

She knows how I feel about this now. But we have not reached a consensus as her visa process is now beginning to occupy some of her time. But I will heed your advice, and others, and address this as soon as possible. I do not want this to be an open issue after she is here.

And thank you for bringing up expenses. I did not want to, for fear that others may think that I am just trying to save money. But all this flying around can be expensive and those dollars can be used for a better purpose. She also wants me to join her for her initial flight to NY. This may be a compromise, as I dont have a real issue with it. But that is 3 tickets ( one RT for me and one, one way for her) and then a few months later 3 more. That is a lot for me. I know most women fly here on thier own, and she has been to England several times but she has a fear of flying over the ocean, for the first time at least. Maybe when she realizes how long these flights are, she will have second thoughts about hopping on a plane and flying back so quickly?

[viking]

GQ

He will "age out" at 21. As long as he is here and I have applied for his AOS, before he turns 21, we should be fine. After 21, he cannot be part of his mothers K1 deal. After 21, that is a very brutul issue. Can take years. But I have only a few months to play with, so he cannot delay.