Who comes first: Spouse or children

[Blues Fairy]

I just want to clarify one thing about Doll and Blue - Doll has the kid who is a step son to her husband while Blue and her husband share the child.

As a matter of fact, I modeled the step-child situation in my answer on the first page of this thread.  I still fail to see why the roles of the husband and the child in my life should be different just because they are not blood relatives to each other.

It's Blues, BTW.

[Doll]

  There are more "characters" in this story- the husband's kids from his previous marriage. In my case all the children are NOT treated same- different standards.
Husband sees in my son what he doesn't see in his kids. It is a long story, Blue.
I see this "discrepancy" so have to stand for my boy. I know what he sometimes does wrong but the attitude to same "wrong" is different when it comes to my husband's reaction. This the root of the evil.
Double standards- this is what I have to deal with.

[KenC]

Doll,
If that is true, it is terrible.  ALL kids in the family MUST be treated equally.
KenC

[Boethius]

I "hear" what you're "saying", Ken, but I am not sure I agree.  It depends on the ages of the kids, if they all live in one family or if Doll's husband's kids just visit, etc.  I treat my children differently but equally, but they certainly don't perceive it this way.

Doll, you need to resolve this.  And, your husband should not be disciplining your son at all until you do resolve it.  Even then, ground rules should be laid out for everyone, and the non biological parent should not be involved in any of the disciplining, at least not until the issue is resolved.

[Doll]

Yes, this is true, Ken. Husband's "reason" is- "he is not responsible for his kids' behavior because they don't live with him, my son does".
It is BS, guys.
Ages? Now his kids are 25 and 20, mine is 16. I've been here for 8 years, so the kids were 16,10 and mine was 8.
I would be glad to resolve it, but I am not doing it because J is not willing to admit the whole thing. 8 years is something, guys.
I am always talking to my son, thanks to God he is very smart and understanding.
I talk to him, I do talk to my husband but it is how it is.
Can you blame me for putting my boy first? No, you can't.
Oh,  sure, husband is very often right when he disciplines the teen! But (now we are talking of the OP question) look- J. is an adult with all the power (his money, his house, his country, etc) and his family (mother, sisters, brothers, kids and many others) and all this against the boy who only has his mother here?
Drama? No, take it easy.
  So now you, guys, answer the OP question- who does the RW put first and WHY.
Blue, you too- answer it.
As for if Doll is telling the truth then let's assume she is.

  Trust me, I am a very mature woman, an educator (for 28 years by now), love my husband but best of all I am a mother.

   BTW talked to my older (he is 29, married) yesterday. He said one more time- keep the teenager as far from J as I could. Meaning the man won't change so the goal is to let the kid be as calm as he can.
Do I love my husband? I do. Do I understand the situation? I do. Do I have hopes it will change? Yes and no, mostly no.
So what do I do? I- stand- for- my- boys.

[boaterguy]

Doll,your post is quite disturbing for me. I certainly hope your husband's discipline isn't abusive(mentally,physically or whatever). Is it too personal to ask what the discipline is for and what the discipline consists of? I take it while his sons were not of age they lived with their mother? What were the inconsistency's of discipline between his sons and your son?

This strikes a note with me because my ex-wife and my opinions on raising my boys were not on the same page and were probably more than 50% of what led us into a divorce.

I really feel for you struggling with this difficult situation.

Yes, this is true, Ken. Husband's "reason" is- "he is not responsible for his kids' behavior because they don't live with him, my son does".
It is BS, guys.
Ages? Now his kids are 25 and 20, mine is 16. I've been here for 8 years, so the kids were 16,10 and mine was 8.
I would be glad to resolve it, but I am not doing it because J is not willing to admit the whole thing. 8 years is something, guys.
I am always talking to my son, thanks to God he is very smart and understanding.
I talk to him, I do talk to my husband but it is how it is.
Can you blame me for putting my boy first? No, you can't.
Oh,  sure, husband is very often right when he disciplines the teen! But (now we are talking of the OP question) look- J. is an adult with all the power (his money, his house, his country, etc) and his family (mother, sisters, brothers, kids and many others) and all this against the boy who only has his mother here?
Drama? No, take it easy.
  So now you, guys, answer the OP question- who does the RW put first and WHY.
Blue, you too- answer it.
As for if Doll is telling the truth then let's assume she is.

  Trust me, I am a very mature woman, an educator (for 28 years by now), love my husband but best of all I am a mother.

   BTW talked to my older (he is 29, married) yesterday. He said one more time- keep the teenager as far from J as I could. Meaning the man won't change so the goal is to let the kid be as calm as he can.
Do I love my husband? I do. Do I understand the situation? I do. Do I have hopes it will change? Yes and no, mostly no.
So what do I do? I- stand- for- my- boys.

[Doll]

Well, the reasons and ways of disciplining vary from case to case, I am not into describing each or some of them because I know where it all comes from. It comes from "my kids vs my step kids"
Small things like eating in the living room vs "we never do it in the living room" or talking respectfully ( like "shut up Dad!"from his kids in front of me vs "would you not"
from my boy).
Big things like "you need to be responsible" for my 10 or 12 yo boy (with no prior teaching how to be responsible- the kid had to guess) vs " let Jeremy (his son) do what and how he thinks is right regardless".
 No way my husband is physically abusive ( I am here to stand for the child), as for mentally- you judge yourself.

[Blues Fairy]

Husband's "reason" is- "he is not responsible for his kids' behavior because they don't live with him, my son does".
Oh,  sure, husband is very often right when he disciplines the teen! But (now we are talking of the OP question) look- J. is an adult with all the power (his money, his house, his country, etc) and his family (mother, sisters, brothers, kids and many others) and all this against the boy who only has his mother here?

If we are talking about the OP's situation, I'm not sure where the "against" comes from. 
In case of your family, I am curious, too; is the discipline your husband is exercising in any way abusive or damaging to your kid?  If it's markedly different from the kind of disciplining his own kids are receiving, surely it's a problem but in my view, it's HIS problem and HIS kids'.  Unless he is being purposefully antagonistic to your kid, I still don't see where the "against" comes from.  Your perception, perhaps?

[Doll]

If we are talking about the OP's situation, I'm not sure where the "against" comes from.  
In case of your family, I am curious, too; is the discipline your husband is exercising in any way abusive or damaging to your kid?  If it's markedly different from the kind of disciplining his own kids are receiving, surely it's a problem but in my view, it's HIS problem and HIS kids'.  Unless he is being purposefully antagonistic to your kid, I still don't see where the "against" comes from.  Your perception, perhaps?

Not sure it is his own situation, also, the name of the thread is "Who comes first: Spouse or Children " which though with no question mark sounds like a question for me.

[Doll]

It can't be HIS problem and HIS kids as first of all in is MY family (like you "modeled" earlier), then I am (we are) talking of RW and her kid(s). So what? So the 16 yo is perfectly understanding why and what is going on. Is this a damage? Sure, it is.

[Blues Fairy]

So the 16 yo is perfectly understanding why and what is going on. Is this a damage? Sure, it is.

What exactly is going on, Doll?  From what you have written, the step-dad is disciplining your kid because he feels he's responsible for his upbringing, but does not discipline his natural kids because they are not living with him.  The disciplining is done in a non-abusive way.  Sounds normal to me - perhaps not an ideal situation, but still understandable. 

If I were in your shoes, I would keep talking to my kid and being a good mother, just like you do, but in no way would I help represent the situation to him as us vs. them, encouraging my kid to be in a defensive position and run to me at the slightest perception of "attack" from his American relatives.  My siding with the kid all the time against step-dad and his kin would only deepen the breech and discourage him from forging his own bridges with that side of the family.  Just my humble opinion. 

[Doll]

I would

Very nice, Blue! Needless to say I do exactly do what you are talking about- talk to my son.
It is not black and white all the time. J is raising my son anyway. Let's be fair.
As for the question ( it WAS a question) about who comes first for me- then there is no question.
Yes, the boy will leave the nest in 7 or 8 years. Before there needs to be a balance.

[Boethius]

Is that balance, Doll?  If you believe your son is "second class" in your husband's eyes, but stay with him, you are putting your husband before your child.  I don't mean that as a criticism, or a judgment of you, just how I see it.  What long term effect does this have on your son?

On the other hand, you could take it as he cares enough for your son to do these things, and help make him a man.  He bailed on his own kids, he knows it, and that is why he didn't discipline them the same way.

[KenC]

Doll.
I now understand some of your previous posts much much better after the recent revelations.  It is only natural for you to put your son's needs ahead anything else.

The blending of two sets of children into one family is majorly difficult.  With only a partial custody of one set while the other is 100% at home is next to impossible.  Before we all throw J under the bus, think about the impossible situation he has been in over the 8 years.  (Boethius, there is no evidence that J "bailed" on his kids yet)  J's situation as I see it:
Loves his wife
Has taken on the responsibility to help raise her child
Loves his natural children but only has had limited time with them

Assuming the above, now the real juggling act begins.  His natural children will have inherent jealousy of the "new child" because he is new, because he lives with their father full time and will be fearful of losing the love of their father due to circumstances beyond their control.  Because the father loves his natural children and has them on a limited basis, he will be naturally reluctant to discipline them in the short time he has with them.

To further complicate matters, there could also be some friction between his new wife and his natural children, for the same reasons as stated above except for the discipline of course.  J loves his natural kids and his wife, but it will still be a slippery slope.

Now back to the step child.  J may or may not love his new son, as it is not been discussed.  It may be observed by Doll that he is a stronger disciplinarian with him than he was with his own kids but is this really true?  Two other alternatives come to my mind here.  One is that he may be treating his step son exactly as he would his own if he had had them full time.  The other is that Doll might be imagining it because she is naturally closer to her own son.  (Sorry Doll, but it is a possibility)  And of course it always could be a combination of both.

How out of whack things are, is also subjective.  If Doll and J have not discussed this in great detail, they should.
KenC

[Boethius]

Boethius, there is no evidence that J "bailed" on his kids yet

Sorry, Ken, but I am of the Dr. Laura school of thought on this.  He remarried.  He brought a wife with a child, that he is living with, while his own kids are not living with him, into his home. 

[Doll]

Is that balance, Doll?  If you believe your son is "second class" in your husband's eyes, but stay with him, you are putting your husband before your child.  I don't mean that as a criticism, or a judgment of you, just how I see it.  What long term effect does this have on your son?

On the other hand, you could take it as he cares enough for your son to do these things, and help make him a man.  He bailed on his own kids, he knows it, and that is why he didn't discipline them the same way.

I don't think I put my husband   first or next. We are the family, I just watch more carefully.
 
  Then I have to raise the kid in a warm home and with the bills paid.
I love my husband, we have fights, we do. The things between him and the boy are off an on.
 
   And yes, J cares for the boy, just does it in his own way. Besides, he himself was raised by a "mean step father" so he doesn't know anything different.

   His own father left the family when J was a baby, then came his step father, also, his mother was far from being a kind woman. This all made him do what he is doing. His first wife divorced him when his kids were 10 and 5 so J has no clue how to really love and raise the kids.

   This is what I have to deal with.

[Doll]

Before we all throw J under the bus

[KenC]

Sorry, Ken, but I am of the Dr. Laura school of thought on this.  He remarried.  He brought a wife with a child, that he is living with, while his own kids are not living with him, into his home. 

Boethius,
How is "bailing" when 9 out of 10 divorce judges determine that the mother's house will be the children's primary residence even if it is joint custody?  Living with his own children was probably not an option for him.  I went through this before.  And it made me crazy until my son was old enough to have a say in the matter.  At 15, he decided it was better for him to live with me instead of his mother.
KenC

[Doll]

Doll.
I now understand some of 

   

I agree 100%, Ken. Things are like you've described.

[Boethius]

The bailing comes not from the divorce (as yes, I recognize he can't control this), but in remarrying before his kids are grown.  Just my opinion.  I can't say I am a conservative person on most social issues, but I am very conservative in my own life, and on this particular issue.

Doll, that is a lot for you to deal with.  I hope it all works out for you.

[KenC]

Boethius,
I like and respect Dr. Laura too, but do not agree with her 100% of the time either.  If she and you are suggesting that a man put his life on hold for 8 years (as in Doll's case) in order to give his children a more psychologically pure environment for every other weekend; then you're both nuts! 
KenC
(Have you read her "Care and Feeding of Husbands"?)

[Boethius]

Ken, children need to come first.  That is her point and mine.  You can't ride two horses.  You will either be a crappy parent, or a crappy spouse.  

Eight years, in the grand scheme of things, is not that long.

ETA - Yes, I did read that book.  But I was already the perfect wife.

[KenC]

Ken, children need to come first.  That is her point and mine.  You can't ride two horses.  You will either be a crappy parent, or a crappy spouse. 
Eight years, in the grand scheme of things, is not that long.

ETA - Yes, I did read that book.  But I was already the perfect wife.

Boethius,
I respectfully disagree.  It ain't easy by a long shot, but it can be done.

IIRC, Dr. Laura would use this logic on a situation where the man was contemplating relocating to a different city than his children from a previous marriage, but I don't remember her advocating putting his life on hold as you are suggesting here.
KenC

[Blues Fairy]

a man put his life on hold for 8 years (as in Doll's case) in order to give his children a more psychologically pure environment

I doubt that many men are capable of maintaining psychological pureness if they have to make major personal sacrifices for their kids.  Inevitably they'll harbor resentment.  People are not angels with wings, even if they are parents.   

[Boethius]

Oh, she certainly does advocate this - she even says no dating until the kids are 18.  The reason is precisely because of this type of situation - your kids see you living with, and raising someone else's kid, and resent it, and the stepchild living with that parent sees different treatment, usually the result of guilt.  J's reaction is exactly what Dr. Laura describes, and she says it has a deleterious effect on the kids.  She prints a lot of letters from kids who grew up in step families that echo her views, and she does recognize there are good stepparents as well.