Divorce

[Jumper]

I can't see any "reasons stated". There is nothing really stated.
no you choose to ignore them
There  has to be the reason the OP didn't mention.Doll,you can call me AJ, it takes the same amount of typing as *OP*.
and no ,there doesnt *have* to be ,only in your mind,,it seems very fertile area  with dark sinister agendas..ridiculas really.

Or most likely AJ's wife didn't state to him.unreal.. seriously doll..how arrogant can you be?  you know us both? you know wether we communicate very well or not? we still talk every day..We have no secrets from each other, as hard as that might be for you to believe,,,if you actually knew us, youd easily see that... how about interviewing our friends and family? The people that actually know us?

Come on, guys, to live 6 years in a marriage and only now realize she can't live because of something different! Something different occurs after 1 or 2 years. 3 at the most.She was waiting for something.
you have got to be kidding me? you have no clue what you are talking about .but speak it as fact.
ridiculous at best and insulting.
has it occured to you that maybe i was waiting for something?
or that as i stated ,, maybe neither of us were waiting for anything? maybe as our marriage moved along thru the years our  long term differences kept weighing on us? You are stereotyping RW!! do you not see that?
not all RW are waiting for something, some  some oppurtunity or change to leave their husband, not all are GCG's ,,nor are all AM/husbnads doing something that drives thier RW to leave them.people do soplit up withouyt those motuivations.
whats bizzare, is you still have not grasped the simple concept that i am the one that is initiating leaving the relationship?
 but yes we are in mutual agreement to end things,you think it makes it less painfull?

 What happened right before she filed for divorce? She dint file , and wont.I would have to,I havnt filed yet,but yes we plan to..
you cant read?
Her mother came over, no,though i would like to bring her?she graduated from some fancy college,nope she got a very good job.nope
What? sorry nothing like that.
carry on your witch hunt..
would you still like my wifes number? she'd appreciate your curiosity i'm sure?  trust me she could meet your determination to find fault, with equal RW defensiveness of her husband and family. wether we are spilltting up or not,, you would be better served taking a bears cub away

Doll .
Who said we only now realized? i stated clearly we knew all along we were very different?
i even stated that looking back on things, we knew the differences , and were overly romantic and foolish..
not good enough for you?
 you read what you want, and skip the rest,so that you can justify your conclusions you've already drawn in your head.

and why are you continuing to think it is my wife that something changed anyway?
I brought up divorce. i am filing,while she agrees ,she may have never actually asked for one ,if i dint.
no where did i say my wife asked for divorce ,or is divorcing me.
you are making up your own reality, and dont know either of us.

docetae- this is a good example of what is being done in this thread. ,
this is not anyone asking hard questions or giving constructive critism?
this is not someone making speculation based on limited data.
they are intentionally ignoring  posted information , to instead jump to some random conclusion that fits there view of how
it "must be"

as for your own thoughts that it should be open season to freely speculate , if every little  detail is not laid  out openly here,.
that is complete and utter nonsense.

I could have just posted a simple.
"WE ARE Going to be DIVORCED"
nothing more.
you  honestly feel that would  give the members here some 'right' to make wild inaccurate speculation on the whys??
really?

and I explained any *180* , if you'd actually read my post?

[Jumper]

gtex- thanks and sorry ive lost a bit of my normal composure.




This is exactly why i stated that giving details wouldnt help anyone here,
 or anyone understand.

Child rearing  isnt the only issue, i brought it up as simply an example of one,
 that is a large one.i also mentioned that if a gave a laundry list of them,from both sides,
each one, would not be "just" cause for divorce ,of itself.

So of course the one example i give, The group without knowing our details, our discussions as  a couple?
or our last six years of life together will debate?all without knowing our life and current situation?

I stated clearly that it is not *the* single solitary reason for our breakup??
so the fact you guys want to dissect it ,is strange and presumptious.
if you counselors got us past this one, (that real counselors couldn't)there are others,what then?
get us threw the others as well? that is fantastic..Trust me i would give anything, so do come over and help.i'm serious.

Docetae- I never said we would , or wanted to date,
I stated we "joked" that we would be a compatable as a couple if  we were "only dating""
and  not living a life together.Our friends and family see that as well.
They know us both a bit better than an internet forum?
 i was pointing out an observation, not stating it was something i wanted to do?
it was example of how you can love someone and be compatible, but not compatible long term.

 It just amazes me that members here can possibly think from a few posts, that are intentionally void of great detail,
that we simply did not  see perfectly  eye to eye, on child raising,on this one issue ,
and just gave up on our marriage over it

 Just because i dont go into great detail of that one issue ,
doesn't mean you should assume it was merely a continuing  squabble over what our current  child,
or any future childs  proper bed time is, or would be.
 

To trivialize the issues in our  divorce is improper,and it insinuates  stupidity on our part, ,or no effort on our part ,
without knowing us.Do you think so little of us? you think we are that foolish ?

In these last ten years on RW forums, have I come off as some uncompromising person who wouldn't work thru anything reasonbly possible with the  wife that i adore?  do you have any idea the sacrifices we have both made?
do you completely understand how hard it is even to type the D in divorce?

can you imagine,, that even on this children issue,  you don't have the whole picture?
would that be a shock ?
since i stated in my first post that I was not planning on putting in the details,
 as they would help noone.

 is  it nessasity for me to detail out our problems ,to justify to people we dont know ,
that we have worked hard at it,, and are not actually stupid or lazy people? or that we arnt impossible egotist ?


If I post something plain,and not much detail :
our situation  is:
 "a-b=y" we need to find b, and cant, we are so sad.

everyone will say, ,
will what is wrong with you silly guys? you love each other right?
it is so simple!
if you love each other, you can always resolve for "b" , it is just *y+b=a*  you silly kids!
now go get back together and be happy!


if i post more detail--

2 ^ b + 3 ^ b = 50
guys  we are so sad, for us both,, a happy marriage means we need to find  b , and can't.

you will then say,, ohh my yes!!
 now i can see that is impossible to resolve, i  am so sorry ,,for your pain..
 please heal up soon, and we wish you both the best..



the one example i gave ,of children and child rearing,
what i have already posted of her being completely irreversably uncompromising on this issue
 (and yes we have a child at home now, so it is not simply theory) it puts my wife in a bad light ,
 if i gave details  a far worse one.
why is that needed? to make those here understand just a  part of the whole picture??

to be fair, she would have her share of issues with me.. right? but of course!
if she or i  listed them, nothing in and of itself, would be a deal breaker even by my wifes thoughts and words, so what then?

This forum cannot simply trust that the issues are real, they are multiple of course,
 and from each side.
They are not minor or trivial, and  they are insurmountable for us, or we sure as heck wouldn't be at this awful juncture.
Is it so unbelievable that two reasonably intelligent people can deeply love one another, but also have insurmountable differences?

[Jumper]

actually I'm sorry to be so defensive, its not my nature.This couldn't be closer to the heart though, or a subject i'm more passionate about!!

i sadly feel we are both displayed  on the autopsy table, our brains are good ,there are no tumors,our hearts pure,
there is no sign of blunt trama....
why did we die?

you will dig  and find nothing  dramatic or exceptional, simple flu perhaps? and how could it kill them both? it is possible? nothing sinister? but it can be deadly ..
and then, with understanding it was indeed *just* the flu,, as the patients originally said .,,
will the forum feel better understanding exact nature of our demise? because a forensic specialist gave the cause of death?

or even then will they still say. "but Coronor this just  cant be!! we dont understand!??  normal people dont die from the flu..
 there must be something else!! it doesnt make sense!!???"





i really don't mean to take this out on everybody..
there have been lots of sympathetic and positive responces,,and PMs
I really appreciate the thoughts and words..
Thank you.

[mies]

AJ - this is very sad. You two are such beautiful couple- i totally loved your photo together.
There is a theory that every 7 years people go to next stage in their life, change their social circle, friends, change work, change hobbies etc. So maybe your differences in a couple coincided with your wife's desire for changes. If you still love each other - maybe you can get back together, if your wife will find a way to realize her need for change while still being with you. Love is rare thing to find. and good / "right" husband/wife - also are extremely rare.
In any case - wish you two the best.

[UTRO]

Really sorry about what is going on in your life right now AJ.
I was married once, for 10 years and Common Law once, for another 10 years. Now married again to a RW for 6 months
When my Common Law relationship ended I lost 30lbs and almost lost my job from missing work. For the life of me I didn't know how I'd cope with feeding and changing the diapers of a 16 month old on my own.... let alone taking care of all 3 of my children who were all under the age of 7.
Don't be too hard on Docetae and Doll. It was you who started this Thread AJ and unfortunately you have to face what you started. You could have chosen to keep your life private. Who would have known otherwise? You put yourself, "on the autopsy table."
Questions and advice are to be expected. We all seek answers and guidance from the experienced. I don't believe that anyone has shown you any disrespect at all. I only see compassion and sympathy.
It is your choice to answer or not to answer questions.
Quite frankly it's somewhat unnerving that quite a few of the 'older' Members are experiencing Martial breakups lately
You are a beautiful couple and I hope that things work out for you both.

[docetae]

AJ, I went trough a separation too after 7 years of common law, and perhaps I was too shocked by the issue that happened to you. We switched from smiling pictures to this.

I will stop to post during a few weeks, time for me to get a less emotive approach (last 2 months have been very difficult on my side and I need to take some perspective). My apologize if I hurted you.

[Jumper]

Really sorry about what is going on in your life right now AJ.
I was married once, for 10 years and Common Law once, for another 10 years. Now married again to a RW for 6 months
When my Common Law relationship ended I lost 30lbs and almost lost my job from missing work. For the life of me I didn't know how I'd cope with feeding and changing the diapers of a 16 month old on my own.... let alone taking care of all 3 of my children who were all under the age of 7.
Don't be too hard on Docetae and Doll. It was you who started this Thread AJ and unfortunately you have to face what you started. You could have chosen to keep your life private. Who would have known otherwise? You put yourself, "on the autopsy table."
Questions and advice are to be expected. We all seek answers and guidance from the experienced. I don't believe that anyone has shown you any disrespect at all. I only see compassion and sympathy.
It is your choice to answer or not to answer questions.
Quite frankly it's somewhat unnerving that quite a few of the 'older' Members are experiencing Martial breakups lately
You are a beautiful couple and I hope that things work out for you both.

Thanks, and yes most is positive!!

I could have kept it private?  
really? perhaps,,
but in my mind, i could not in good concious?
 not in light of years of posting openly? to me that would not be right?
I have openly posted since 1998? 97? planet love,brhama,RWG,RWD,etc.
so many members know our story from inception.

but  i did not ask for advise?
 and I was not asking how can we fix this?  why did this happen?

I will take the negative....
 but I have a right to refute things posted as fact,or opinion,   when it is off base and untrue
Questions are expected ..
I gave answers,. ? and they are plenty for most people to understand, and they have stated as such?
why can most understand so clearly, and others not at all?

to some  the answers given,don't amount to *enough* for  them personally.
that is ok? fair enough?
but  in all fairness I  have questions as well?
why would it then be important to them? if our particular reasons wouldn't break up thier own relationships,, that is wonderful right?
I will be happy for them, and sad for us. we somehow fall short of thier abilty to overcome problems..
 
it is funny?  i can be as "hard" on Doll and Docetae as is fitting?
 as they are standing in judgement on limited data.   they state ,since i dint share more, it is thier right ? ok so be it?
but that is an incredbily hard stance they are taking? live be the sword?
 as they have nothing at stake, and no feelings involved!!
and in this case speculating in error?

just like spectators at a car crash-

is it appropriate for them ,at the scene of the accident that they came upon but did not witness,
, to tell the mother of a dead teenage driver  that he should have driven slower? or not been drinking?
when they have no idea if the kid was driving too fast ,or not, or drinking pepsi.

Does the mother, at that time , need to explain to them the details of the crash?
that the boy simply fell asleep at the wheel?
and that not all teenagers involved in a  crash are speeding  and drinking alcohol?

if shes accuratey states that  it happened because he was tired and fell asleep,
but doesnt list the detailed reasons he was tired..

 is it appropriate to insist there must be something else?
that he surely was taking some sleeping pills with his beer ?
and since shes in public place ,mourning, insread of at home,
then  they have the right to thier open public speculations stated as facts?

i know it is vastly over dramatized for sure,
but relevent?

as this is simply stereotyping our divorce into a "known" box of reasons or elements they are *comfortable* with?

it is not accurate,they are completely wrong in thier assumptions and speculations,  and it is improper at this time.
i have every right to state that.as fact.

 I do not want the thread closed.
it is normal for forums to discuss all things, but i have as much right to reply as anyone.

[Jumper]

AJ, I went trough a separation too after 7 years of common law, and perhaps I was too shocked by the issue that happened to you. We switched from smiling pictures to this.

I will stop to post during a few weeks, time for me to get a less emotive approach (last 2 months have been very difficult on my side and I need to take some perspective). My apologize if I hurted you.

Docetae-
thank you !! and apology accepted.

obviously i'm very emotional about this,, and should not reply,and overreact..
but it is difficult to watch inaccurate presumptions being made.

on the smiling pictures, i do understand the confusion..

it may not help explian-
but I could post some from this past sunday.


we are torn be this,,but when together we still can smile and truly enjoy each others company. and do!
we both know it isnt a good idea long term..

but in the interim , seeing how we have spent most everyday together for many years,
 my wife is a big part of my ,and my boys life ,and we are the major part in  hers..
and we will still certainly spend time together, and yes smiling.
is it bittersweet and at times incredibly painful? of course.

[Zhena]

And, what if she will apply her theory once she has a child? Then it will be too late. Also, AJ seems to be hinting that she is already living by her principles with his child. If that is correct, then it is not solely theoretic and he sees quite clearly how she will truly behave in the future.

You know, I ll tell you from my personal experience,that a woman-most of them at least-change dramatically when they have a child. The change is in the attitude. You will never understand this while you didnt experience this.The attitude to the stepson etc-doesnt matter very much,just because its not her child. She may love him,but its not HER child. About HER child she will feel different. And I am pretty sure,that she wont exclude the father from the childs raising. At least the loving mother will never do that. The child absolutely needs the father. Before,I had pretty strict views about how the children should behave,what they should do etc. Now I am far not that strict.
Also,in Tanyas case,she has so called "kvochka" syndrome-overprotecting attitude,just because her maternal instinct wasnt met yet....

[Zhena]

Well,ok. I just read the rest of posts and dont see why to say anything else. AJ is very sensitive about all this and I will respect his privacy(though this is a thing I still cant accept fully in america and somewhat even hate it). No more preparation on the table. You made a decision. The only reason why I started to say something,was I am really and truly sorry about you-a wonderful beautiful couple-and thougth that you might to make a mistake of your life(people do it very often cos of emotions you know). If you dont think so-it is your life,your marriage and your business.
Sorry again.

[Jumper]

Well,ok. I just read the rest of posts and dont see why to say anything else. AJ is very sensitive about all this and I will respect his privacy(though this is a thing I still cant accept fully in america and somewhat even hate it). No more preparation on the table. You made a decision. The only reason why I started to say something,was I am really and truly sorry about you-a wonderful beautiful couple-and thougth that you might to make a mistake of your life(people do it very often cos of emotions you know). If you dont think so-it is your life,your marriage and your business.
Sorry again.

Zhena, i agree that tanya cant know until she has children..
i agree with you more than you can imagine!!
actually on both posts!
and I appreciate the effort and thought behind your posts....
i would gladly not make this choice!!
"if" things could resovled,  then yes we are throwing away that one very special thing all humans look for in life.
 could it be more sad? I recognize it,and it makes it worse!!

mishas post has something for you to closely consider..

what if she will apply her theory once she has a child? Then it will be too late. Also, AJ seems to be hinting that she is already living by her principles with his child. If that is correct, then it is not solely theoretic and he sees quite clearly how she will truly behave in the future.

again, it is not the only issue,but it is a large one,
 and we have been trying the entire 6 years to comes to grip with it.
counsling did not help.at all.

[ScottinCrimea]

I have followed this thread with much interest because AJ quite eloquently expresses the ideas that have gone through my mind in my current situation.  After the chaos of the shelter assisted separation, we have settled into a pattern of daily contact and frequent time together despite continuing to live apart.  We express our love for each other daily and during the time we spend together we are very compatible.  Does that mean we can live together on a permanent basis?  I really don't know.  We may have differences different from those of AJ and his wife, but the question remains, "Are they really irreconcible?"  I don't know, no more than AJ knows at this point.

I see some posting here who think that there must be a simple answer and a simple solution, but if that were so, do you think we wouldn't have thought of this on our own?

My wife and I don't have a small child involved in the equation, but she does have a teenage daughter and the issue of acceptable parenting has been an issue with us.  One can't ignore the impact of differing parenting styles, especially where the idea of a shared child is involved.  Anyone who ignores pursuing this issue does so at their own peril.

We have some issues that will inevitably link our futures together, no matter the final outcome, just as AJ's son will be a link that will bind them, but I realize that the moment a couple starts planning separate futures, eventually those futures will diverge and each will move on to their own destiny.

I don't want this post to lead to a diversion from AJ's relationship to mine, so if you want to comment on my situation, please start another thread.  I just want to point out that AJ's situation is not unique, that love does not necessarily conquer all, and that the end of a relationship does not automatically brand it as a failure,nor does it need to be confrontational or painted as black and white.

[Doll]

Ah, ok, now I see the reason.

[Admin]

Ah, ok, now I see the reason.

Bullsh!t.

The only thing you see is the result of your own fertile imagination. Your trite post has no productive purpose.

- Dan

[Doll]

Bullsh!t.

Excuse me?

The only thing you see is the result of your own fertile imagination. Your trite post has no productive purpose.

Excuse me?
 What did you say?
 

[Doll]

Bullsh!t.

The only thing you see is the result of your own fertile imagination. Your trite post has no productive purpose.

- Dan

    Keep in mind that the opinions expressed in postings on this board are those of the individuals making the postings and thus do not necessarily reflect the views of the RWD board. We each come to this board with different personalities and backgrounds which influence how we see the world. Appreciation of these differences is one of the goals of this board.   

This is one of your, Dan, "terms and conditions".
BS- you're right

[Johnny2009]

The last 2 posts on this thread prove just how petty people can be, the OP has posted a sensitive subject which you are hijacking!

[Admin]

This is one of your, Dan, "terms and conditions".
BS- you're right

Yep - and I have a right to an opinion as well.

It is my opinion that your posts in this topic have been persistently malicious and predatory. You have failed to heed multiple requests to cease your shameful insinuations - instead, opting to try to weave your version of whole cloth from precious few threads. It is an asinine endeavor.

- Dan

[Simoni]

AJ--

Both of us are devastated at your news.  We can only offer our prayers and best wishes to both of you, and for your son.

Thanks again to you and Tonya for helping us through our first difficult six months; my wife talking to your wife was a help beyond measure.

Blessings to both of you, and please remember to continue to seek God and his comfort and wisdom as you move forward.

[groovlstk]

Sorry to be so late to this, but AJ you're one of the good guys and I think everyone who has benefited from your wisdom and good humor here (a group of which I'm a charter member) feels genuine sadness for how things worked out.

Ah, ok, now I see the reason.

Zero class. Your schadenfreude at others' misfortune is once again evident.

[Misha]

You know, I ll tell you from my personal experience,that a woman-most of them at least-change dramatically when they have a child.

Not my experience. Only some of the women changed drastically (and this applies to both RW and Canadian women), for the others it was pretty predictable what kind of mother they would be based on the women they were prior to giving birth. We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

[I/O]

AJ is simply one of the really decent guys of this caper. I have read his posts with interest over the last few years and appreciated his generosity in sharing. For the latter comers and some of the womenfolk, this may not be so evident. AJ Has EARNED the right to considerable respect. Right now, it is obvious to any thinking person that he would have very few places to share this where he may find understanding. I believe it behoves us all to sit back, tender our support and as we say in Aus, "Let a good mate tell the yarn". It's a situation where it is clear to those of us who know AJ just a little that he is pretty raw with frayed nerve ends right now. Give the man room to spill it out, vent it out, cry it out if need be. AJ, You have always and will always have my respect. I like you, simply wish you were 12 months on when it doesn't hurt so much. Count the days one by one.............

[Jazzyclassy]

Thanks, and yes most is positive!!

I could have kept it private?  
really? perhaps,,
but in my mind, i could not in good concious?
 

I think you definitely should have  kept it in private unless you could openly say what is wrong.
Because you just confused a lot of people by your thoughts and your reasons, I did not understand any reasons and any issues at all . I agree with Doll and Zhena totally

You were picturing such a fantastic fabulous family couple for all of us for so many years that a lot of people are in shock by the news now.

Why showing  perfect relations on public if in truth nothing is/was perfect in your marriage, I will never understand that

[Simoni]

Just as most foreign women assimilate to American culture at large, they also assimilate to views on child rearing.  My wife to be and I had number of disagreements in theory about raising children.  We discussed these at length as we dreamed and planed for a life together.  We finally just agreed to work them out when the moment came.

And we did.  As it turns out, on the big three concerns, my wife adjusted her stance when our baby arrived, and my prior stance is now her view and practice.  This does not mean I was right or wrong, it just shows the power of the culture you live in.

So yes, the women can change, and I say this based upon experience.

However, this is not always true, and does not apply to AJ, since they already have a child and the differences persisted.

[KenC]

I think you definitely should have  kept it in private unless you could openly say what is wrong.
Because you just confused a lot of people by your thoughts and your reasons, I did not understand any reasons and any issues at all . I agree with Doll and Zhena totally

You were picturing such a fantastic fabulous family couple for all of us for so many years that a lot of people are in shock by the news now.

Why showing  perfect relations on public if in truth nothing is/was perfect in your marriage, I will never understand that

Who gives a damn what you think you deserve to know?  AJ doesn't owe you jack!

AJ has made many friends here over a long period of time.  He is simply letting his buds know of his change in status.  He is explaining it in a way that he is most comfortable.  It doesn't matter if we understand every small detail or even the big details,  It is up to AJ as to how much he is willing to share.  He is not asking for anyone's advice, just reporting what is happening in his life.  The only two people that truly understand this is AJ and Tanya.  And it isn't as though they have not given it a lot of thought.
KenC