Should men seek advice from RWD?

[Bored1]

You are young and I would think you would give very useful information on culture, universities, night life, etc.  However, what could you tell me about marrying a RW with a child and the adjustment they would go through upon arriving in America?  Only married AM and RW with children could really explain the issues. 

I know nothing of these things which is why I do not post in such thread.  I post only in a thread where I have something I feel valid is worthy of saying.  I do not think you will find a post from me in a thread about moving to America or adjustments with children or any issuse after marriage.  You will also find no post from me in divorce or visa issues again because my knowledge is lacking.

I do have 100% experience of being a RW and I do know what it is like to have WM want to be with me also.  I have spent time with a few in a social atmosphere.    I think that may qualify me to at least speak of dating a RW should I feel inclined so but not marriage so this is what I stick with.

I also have experience of Moscow.

I would not post in such a thread as Moscow Nightlife for example as some of the people who have post I would not wish to meet in the places I go.  That is my decision of course.

I see no point in idle speculation as it only seems to start conflict over something which will not be resolved and to what purpose is idle specutlation?.  I therefore think I am right to stay silent and think that for the forum to have less fights many others should stay silent and not speculate either.

Again this is my opinion but the consistant fighting, egotism and expanding arguements across so many threads does make it very hostile.

[Gator]

I have spent time with a few in a social atmosphere.    I think that may qualify me to at least speak of dating a RW should I feel inclined so but not marriage so this is what I stick with.

And please do share because dating is very important.

I also have experience of Moscow.

Wonderful city.  My wife was born and raised in Moscow as were her family as far back as she knows.  She misses Moscow yet does not want to return other than visit every year or so.

I would not post in such a thread as Moscow Nightlife for example as some of the people who have post I would not wish to meet in the places I go.

   You are smart not to tell us of the best places.

I see no point in idle speculation as it only seems to start conflict over something which will not be resolved and to what purpose is idle specutlation?.  I therefore think I am right to stay silent and think that for the forum to have less fights many others should stay silent and not speculate either.

If none of us speculated, this forum would be boring.  Given you name that would be bad.  Yes? Would you read this forum if it only addressed how to exit SVO airport, how many and what color roses to give a RW, how to get tickets to the Bolshoi, etc.   

Again this is my opinion but the consistant fighting, egotism and expanding arguements across so many threads does make it very hostile.

I agree that we have too much bickering.  Did you follow the Dukemaxwell episode?  If yes, what was your impression?  If no, what particular threads made you stop reading and surf to something else on the Internet?

[Gator]

Quote from: Bored1 on Today at 07:21:06 AM

I speak only for me, but the reason I post little is I find the forum full of big ego of people who know very little about RW in reality or Russia and when RW says something which is not on the same line they are dismissed or ignored as knowing little of what the speak of or they are picked on for bad English or other minor English language mistakes in grammar

I agree. 

Thanks for posting Brave Girl. 

Can you imagine a marriage in which a husband does not listen to his RW wife?  And if she insists on explaining what's on her mind, the husband criticizes her English?

Men who behave this way will need to change before they marry.  Maybe that is why they are interested in RW because no AW will tolerate such crap.  Please be brave and tell these men that they are full of kaka. 

I assert that such a man will not be able to win the heart of a RW with choices, so he will end up with a desperate RW and will probably live in turmoil until the divorce is finalized.   

I do appreciate all opinions here.  However, as I stated early in this thread:

As far as understanding how to live with RW, I need to understand only one, and I can depend on her to tell me when and how I am wrong. 

Okay, Brave Girl, I hope to see you post in other threads.  Please believe me that most men welcome RW participation.  However, some of us can be too gruff when we disagree.  Please remind us to behave as gentlemen when you feel insulted.  Men do need feedback and so do women.

[Bored1]

Yes I read all threads until it become personal insult between 1 member and another.  After this point I stop read the thread as it becomes a war of individual or group and the point of the thread is forgetten.

Yes I have now read that thread you mention from start to end.  

If you wish to know my thought then I will say that even after the member is barred then many still continue to discuss both he and his thought process.  To what purpose?  The moderator or administration bar the individual but the most offensive quotes such as they bad smell below are still in display and at no time have ever been moderated reworded or changed and remain as rude as they were before he was barred.

Could this small bit of text not have been moderated even if leaving the rest of the post and context unchanged.

His reason for being how he was is unknown to me.  He would certainly not have got with me if we had met in Moscow but that can be said of 80% of the mans on this forum.  I may not wish to find a husband but I do enjoy to socialise some times.  

It is a thread which I had little interest in from the first post if I am honest and when I next read it he is barred and the thread is dragging on over old news but with the same hostility as if the man was still putting on post.  I see no rational to this when there are other post with better content and of real interest or people asking for serious advice over visa problem.  

I cannot assist with visa problem but they are interesting as to the result and how it is achieved.

It is up to a member what they write here but the few personal message I have passed to a man here have been through the my message system when I was asked some questions by him.

[Faux Pas]

I know nothing of these things which is why I do not post in such thread.  I post only in a thread where I have something I feel valid is worthy of saying.  I do not think you will find a post from me in a thread about moving to America or adjustments with children or any issuse after marriage.  You will also find no post from me in divorce or visa issues again because my knowledge is lacking.

I do have 100% experience of being a RW and I do know what it is like to have WM want to be with me also.  I have spent time with a few in a social atmosphere.    I think that may qualify me to at least speak of dating a RW should I feel inclined so but not marriage so this is what I stick with.

I also have experience of Moscow.

I would not post in such a thread as Moscow Nightlife for example as some of the people who have post I would not wish to meet in the places I go.  That is my decision of course.

I see no point in idle speculation as it only seems to start conflict over something which will not be resolved and to what purpose is idle specutlation?.  I therefore think I am right to stay silent and think that for the forum to have less fights many others should stay silent and not speculate either.

Again this is my opinion but the consistant fighting, egotism and expanding arguements across so many threads does make it very hostile.

Everyone on these forums whether married, looking, single, young old or whatever can offer a different perspective and opinion. This is what makes the forums so beneficial to not just WM seeking a RW but basically anyone. It is not important that you agree with anyone. What is important that when you state a position it is because you have given it some degree of thought and can defend that position with some degree of passion and logic.

When you state an opinion or even a fact for that matter on an open forum such as RWD, someone likely will not agree with it and attempt to poke holes in your statement. This is not a bad thing and 9 times of 10 it is not personal. The benefit of this is that it forces the poster, the respondent and anyone reading to think and reason. This is a good thing and helps most in this pursuit whether it be WM or RW to better understand the nuances of these type relationships. Of course everyone isn't capable of thought and reason beyond the nose on their face. It's good when you can't recognize those early and the earlier the better  

[Gator]

His reason for being how he was is unknown to me.  He would certainly not have got with me if we had met in Moscow but that can be said of 80% of the mans on this forum.  

      

That is a compliment in contrast to my wife who thinks 90% of foreign men are "idiots."   My wife is "sweet," so I can assume that you are a really "sweet" person in real life to be so tolerant of us men.

It is a thread which I had little interest in from the first post if I am honest and when I next read it he is barred and the thread is dragging on over old news but with the same hostility as if the man was still putting on post.  I see no rational to this when there are other post with better content and of real interest....

 

Most people probably felt the same as you.  I too am bewildered by the amount of deliberation it received.  Yet, I was in there participating. 

It is up to a member what they write here but the few personal message I have passed to a man here have been through the my message system when I was asked some questions by him.

You are very polite to answer your PMs.  Some of my first impressions of RW were that many RW were impolite.  I corresponded with many RW in 2002, and a few simply vaporized after exchanging 3-4 emails.  Not a word.  Poof!  I know they were busy, as was I, yet it does not take much time to write "I am no longer interested."

You mentioned that you are not interested in marrying a foreign man but read the forum because you have family in America.  How is your family doing in America?

[Bored1]

I have an uncle and aunt who live in Beverley Hills nine month from the year and live here in Moscow the rest of the time.  Their son stays in the Beverley Hills always.

He does work with computer programs but my uncle and aunt do not work in America.  All their business interests are here in Moscow.  It is for them I work and try to run things as good as I can for them on a financial level

[OlgaH]

It is up to a member what they write here but the few personal message I have passed to a man here have been through the my message system when I was asked some questions by him.

Bored1,

I also communicated with several members through PMs (till it has been blocked) who shared with me their privet information and asked questions, and I continue to communicate through e-mails and phones we exchanged. They just feel uncomfortable to share their situation and ask for some advice on the open forum as there is possibility to receive the personal insults, including personal insults towards a wife for some of her thoughts.  

Of course everyone isn't capable of thought and reason beyond the nose on their face.

 

and usually they are very quick to post their "advice" or opinions" with personal insults as "idiot", "stupid", "handicapped wife" and etc... Oh, and I also was labeled and received different "epithets" because of my thoughts  

But as Jooky has noticed the selectivity towards members

One poster was warned in personal messages and banned for being insulting (understandable), others hurled the same type of insults and provocations and nothing was said to them.

 

Should men seek advice from RWD? Members can find here useful information and advice. But question also is can they receive an advice or opinion without personal insults...

[KenC]

Bored1,
I have just finished reading this thread and must share that I have enjoyed your perspective on things.  Not that I necessarily agree with your point of view on some issues.  You do need to stop apologizing for your English skills however because you are very understandable.

RWD is a melting pot of opinions.  Some are good, some are bad and some are just "off the wall."  Of course it is still someones opinion of which are which.  Personally, I see no gender lines drawn as to who's opinion falls into which category.  RWD is truly blessed with some very level headed and wise ladies.  Much great information could be gleemed from the likes of Boethius, Blues Fairy, Anastassia, Olga H. and Lilly.  (I am sure I left many more out, so forgive me please.)  From what I have read in this thread, you surly could be considered as a wealth of insight from a young Russian woman's perspective.

With the great amount of respect I personally have for the women I mentioned, I will dare to point out that none of them is a "shrinking violet."  (Meaning that they can give as good as they get in any debate with a man or another woman here.)  These are all strong and spirited women that can handle a debate on any level it may take, harsh or otherwise.

I recently had a small debate with Doll here at RWD.  I like Doll, a lot, but I failed to put her in the category of the others as she is usually here seeking answers to questions she has regarding a new marriage and assimilating to life in America.  (Which BTW, is a GREAT use of the resources here at RWD IMO.)  Any way, in our debate, she became backed into a corner with no real answer except to "use" her "because I am a woman" card.  Maybe it is a cultural thing, or an upbringing thing but IIRC, I told her that you cannot come here and debate an issue toe to toe only to eventually "hide behind your skirt."  To her great credit, she understood my meaning and accepted it well.

I disagree that RW's opinions are not treated respectfully here in as much as they deserve to be respected.  After all, not all opinions are well thought out or presented in a logical manner from women or men.  Gender really has nothing to do with the validity of the opinion.

One other small point I would like to make with you here is that even though your basic knowledge of information regarding Moscow will always be greater than a visitor, it is from a visitors perspective that we also find valuable.
KenC

[Jooky]

Most come as a result of agency dating thread.  Posts such as have some back ups for seeing when you are there.  A man serious about finding a RW would join a Russian chat room or meeting site which has nothing to do with agency.  Agency is a cattle market with pretty pictures on many occasion where nobody knows if they speak with man or woman in Russia.

It may be my understanding of English which is bad but words like have a plan, have a agenda, have a list of questions makes things sound like job interview and if I felt as though I was being interview for job as a wife I would have no interest in that man.

I agree, and also advise men to use Russian dating and contact sites instead of agencies.

But, realistically, most men coming to this site are going to use bridal sites, agencies and tours. That’s just the way it is, and it makes sense for them to get advice from others who have gone through the same ‘process’.

I also dislike the interview like ‘process’, but from what I’ve seen it comes from both sides. Of the women I met through bridal sites, many treated a first meeting or few phone conversations as an interview and also perpetuated the typical agency stereotypes about Russian women and men.

So, while you are bothered by the stereotyping, it comes not just from men and from the agencies they use, but from the women they meet as well.

[GQBlues]

Bored1-

Don't mind me joining the thread since we're on a good subject of viewing things from a Russian woman's point of view...I would like to ask you these questions.

1. How do you view a man, or those who promote and advocate it, when they talk about bringing along names and phone numbers of other women, generally referred to as back-ups, in case things didn't work out on that man's trip to his woman whom he professed life and love with? Do you see the logic in this thereby making it understandable for you as a Russian woman? For the benefit of the men reading this, or is it disrespectful to women to do so?

2. Being you've been to USA and have had a few experiences being around AM in real life, what if the roles were reversed and this site is actually for Russian women dating American men and questions & answers are being exchanged regarding relationships with American men and life in America. Would you be compelled to give your opinions, good or bad, based on your experiences? If so, to what extent? Would you advise these women, prior to their trip to USA to meet and visit their American inamorata, to bring along names and phone numbers in case they didn't like the man (vis-a-vis) after meeting them in person?

Lastly, in both scenarios, let's just hypothesize if you are the main woman (or the back-up), what is your view in this?

[RussianWind]

Some of my first impressions of RW were that many RW were impolite.  I corresponded with many RW in 2002, and a few simply vaporized after exchanging 3-4 emails.  Not a word.  Poof!  I know they were busy, as was I, yet it does not take much time to write "I am no longer interested."

Why do you think men do different?

[BC]

Actively looking for a wife is an unnatural process or shortcut if you will, or simply looking for trouble.

There are some lucky folks out there that somehow manage to form a long term relationship under these circumstances.

Such is quite random.. and chances probably equal to walking up to a woman on the street and asking her to marry you.

Even that has happened and succeeded.

[Misha]

So, while you are bothered by the stereotyping, it comes not just from men and from the agencies they use, but from the women they meet as well.

And the women are told what to say and expect. I have posted this before, but might as well share it again, Elena's (of Elena's Models) how to guide for RW seeking a foreign husband: http://www.zamuzh.com/index.html.

[Gator]

And the women are told what to say and expect. I have posted this before, but might as well share it again, Elena's (of Elena's Models) how to guide for RW seeking a foreign husband: http://www.zamuzh.com/index.html.

Such guidelines have softened the stark cultural differences.  In a way I preferred the style of smiling only when there is a reason to smile, not saying  'please,' not saying 'thank you' unless it was a surprise and special, suggesting good restaurants, eating like a horse, drinking like a fish, flowing over with pride even with holes in their shoes, jumping into bed because it seemed right and not because it was third date, etc. 

A few years later I knew more and so did the women.  The lines had blurred albeit still there.

[Gator]

Why do you think men do different?

I don't know because I did not write sweet letters to men.  I like women!   

So men can be just as rude?!   A couple of RW told me that they sent a "no interest" letter only to have the man assail them in an ugly letter.  Ugly letters should be ignored.

In 2002 I sent introductory letters to many RW.  The letters went by snail mail.  Some women did not reply by email (it was 2002) and instead wrote me a letter in longhand and sent it via snail mail.  That really impressed me, knowing that these women were busy yet took the time to write sweet words, probably slaving away with a Russian-English dictionary.  I wondered about buying a stamp from a $30/month salary, taking the time to walk to a bureaucratic post office, etc.

A few years later everything was by email and everything seemed more mechanical.  Or perhaps I had become jaded.

[Jooky]

Such guidelines have softened the stark cultural differences.

With younger generations, I think the cultural differences are disappearing quickly, and it's not guidelines from marriage agencies that are to blame.

In a way I preferred the style of smiling only when there is a reason to smile, not saying  'please,' not saying 'thank you' unless it was a surprise and special, suggesting good restaurants, eating like a horse, drinking like a fish, flowing over with pride even with holes in their shoes, jumping into bed because it seemed right and not because it was third date, etc.

This is all interesting to me, as most of this doesn't sound at all like the typical young Russian women I meet here.

Smiling: not much different than in the US. Please and Thank You: the same. Cashiers, waitresses and clerks use these words as a matter of habit. It's either You're Welcome (pozhaluista) or Thank You Too (spasibo vam). Eating like a horse, drinking like a fish: not so much with the slim young Russian girls, but that all depends. Flowing with pride with holes in their shoes: It's more likely to see a girl wear the same fashionable outfit 5 days in a row before she wore something that made her look like a 'bum'. Jumping into bed only when the time is right: Ok, I agree. I never agreed with the 3 date rule.

What I do notice is that using bridal sites, many women introduce themselves with usual talk of the traditional cozy home and tasty meal. Not so with women I meet through other avenues, even the ones that actually do keep a cozy home and cook tasty meals. 

That's some of my observations...

[OlgaH]

And the women are told what to say and expect. I have posted this before, but might as well share it again, Elena's (of Elena's Models) how to guide for RW seeking a foreign husband: http://www.zamuzh.com/index.html.

Misha, you made my day  

I love the "advice" for women from the book below:

Strategics  of success.
Use your e-mail:

- you will look educated and modern
- 100% of well provided and educated men in America have a computer at home (in Europe and Australia 99,9% of men) - you will be in correspondence with the best candidates.

[BC]

A few years later everything was by email and everything seemed more mechanical.  Or perhaps I had become jaded.

One snail mail is worth a thousand emails.

Don't worry, good things never die.. It will become a 'fad' again someday.

Want to really impress her?  Lick a stamp.

[RussianWind]

So men can be just as rude?!   A couple of RW told me that they sent a "no interest" letter only to have the man assail them in an ugly letter.  Ugly letters should be ignored.

My today's arrival: "Hi sexy! You look hot, would you like to chat"?

Please compose collectively a polite answer, I will send it to him.

In 2002 I sent introductory letters to many RW.  The letters went by snail mail.  Some women did not reply by email (it was 2002) and instead wrote me a letter in longhand and sent it via snail mail.

Sounds romantically  I had internet in 1998 but snail mail was something special. Does anybody write papper letters today?

[BC]

My today's arrival: "Hi sexy! You look hot, would you like to chat"?

Please compose collectively a polite answer, I will send it to him.

'Well thank you for your compliment!  I only chat with 12 inches or more. Do you have a webcam?'

That should do it.

[Gator]

BC,

 

RussianWind did ask for a polite answer.
  

[Gator]

Want to really impress her?  Lick a stamp.

My wife said exactly that.  She opened her mail box and there was this thick letter (photos included).  It was something she could hold in her hands and read again and again while relaxed, drinking a cup of tea and munching on a chocolate. 

All of her other correspondence came via email at the office.  She had to read them quickly and usually hit the "delete" button.

[I/O]

Most instances of open hostility I've observed here were caused by a Russian poster making a generalized statement with an air of "I know it better than any of you because I am Russian"; other members debunking the generalization; and the original poster taking personal offense, accusing everyone of hostility, and storming out.  A typical scenario.

Example/s?

A couple of RW told me that they sent a "no interest" letter only to have the man assail them in an ugly letter.

That can cut both ways. Hell hath no fury as the woman scorned and I certainly had paper (email if you like) supporting evidence.

My today's arrival: "Hi sexy! You look hot, would you like to chat"?

Suggest he visits RWD for a little "advice" before you are prepared to proceed.  (Sorry, just couldn't resist that one). Another answer might be, "I know I'm hot and no I'm not interested in chatting", unless of course you are....................... However, seriously, you can cover all bases and maybe, just maybe give him a clue or two by simply saying "thanks but no thanks".

snail mail was something special. Does anybody write papper letters today?

Absolutely..!!! Mrs I/O and I certainly exchanged a couple of snail mail letters and I agree, they are very special and no amount of technology will EVER replace that.

[Gator]

This is all interesting to me, as most of this doesn't sound at all like the typical young Russian women I meet here.

Same situation?  The no smiling, no 'please' days were in 2002.  Young?  The youngest was 27 and the oldest 43.  She would be 50 today!

You say waitresses smiled and said thank you in 2002?  I only saw this at McDonalds and that came only after the manager, trained at Hamburger University, screamed "Why isn't everyone smiling for the customers?"  Every waitress resembled the waitress questioning the order for potatoes without meat in Everything Illuminated.  That movie was largely how I recall my first trip.

For this first trip I did not know Jack $hit about RW, had not read any RW forum, and traveled on my own for 30 days without interpreter and without contacting a single agency (I used the agencies such as Angelica only to purchase home addresses; never used the agency afterwards). 

Even though I had worked for the UN in the past and had traveled well beyond the line of demarcation for toilet paper, I was in a bit of culture shock in the FSU.  So every cultural difference was magnified.

In Ukraine I dated only women from the provinces.  As you said, one UW  wore the same outfit for 5 days. She had two pairs of knickers.  And she ate meat without a knife, letting the whole piece dangle from a fork while chewing from the bottom.      :hairraising:    And she was a physician.

I tried but our differences were too stark.  I bought her a pair of Italian shoes just before departing.   It made her so happy.  I could feel her sincere gratitude.

Another UW got drunk with me on vodka and some odd Georgian concoction while roaming atop the mountain high above Yalta.  We were having so much fun that a Ukrainian family joined us, and the man's rather plump wife sat on my knee for a photo (see below).  I could barely walk after that.  This UW was always bringing me beer (trained well by UM?) and was skinny like a stick (second photo).

After a couple weeks of peasant life, I was so relieved to make it to Moscow and there I met my cultivated wife.  It was comparable to having camped out in a tent for two weeks and returning home to a hot shower and clean sheets.  One problem:  what few smiles I noticed in Ukraine disappeared altogether except those on my future wife when she was not interviewing me.