Need some advice

[phantom]

Well, the lady in Kazan, sms me last night and also sent an email today.  She felt that I wasn't open about things, and really didn't express myself.  That's why she states she said what she had said. 

She brought up another meeting time.  Next week!  Talk about short notice.  During the holiday as well, 25-27.  That's just impossible.  But, has anyone experienced this before with a lady?  Writing, after it seemed to fail?

Can anyone offer advice on this one?

I placed it here, hoping to get someone to answer that has experience.

[BillyB]

I'm not up to speed on your story but have you met before? If one or both of you aren't sure about your first meeting, then there must be a good reason and if one or both of you aren't completely comfortable about a second meeting that will result in progress, then there must be a good reason.

If two people really wanted to get together, the barriers will come down. If you feel you have an uphill battle based on her or yourself not bringing the barriers down, then maybe you should move on.

[dogspot]

My ex sent me an email recently proposing we get back together. She said "I am pretty, you are man. Why not?" I responded "We already tried to be together and it didn't work. Remember?"

End of Conversation.

[Vaughn]

Well, the lady in Kazan, sms me last night and also sent an email today.  She felt that I wasn't open about things, and really didn't express myself.  That's why she states she said what she had said.

Ummmm...  I just finished rereading your first visit's experience - and it seemed she was rather quick to make
some judgements, based on a declined credit card and the vehicle you drove...  now, how have things changed
to make her appear suddenly and asking you to revisit? Something's not right here - but whatever - how does
she fit (and for that matter, how does Kazan fit) into any plans you may have made in the meantime?

At what level of English is she?

[Jumper]

I'd say it is somewhat "normal" that she had second thoughts..

and from your report,, i'd say that you shouldn't really have any.
(but you dint share much about wether you to really connected,so i can only assume that you din't seem to)

your trip report came out like the conversations were at best a bit * haulting*,or some awkward..
 and most everything slowly spireled downward after the
initial  meeting.,,
to a point that she a bit immaturley accused you of not being good enough potential husband..
and you both just dropped things upset,
and left it at that.


having a tif,, or miscommunication isnt unusual in these relationships?
 neither is having second thoughts about what really happened.


If you had arrived, the initial meeting went well, and things went upward afterwards,!!
fun time!
laughs,, having a great time together, actual feeling like its someone special you connect with..
but then have  some tif..
it would make sense to look further into it..and it would be expected you both might do so.


but your trip reports sounds like you went to see a girl,
and after the 5 minutes of first smiles,
no real spark and it kind of just tapered off,
 you dint seem to "click" ,or be into each other much.. but had a "decent " time ..
other than some various small troubles you only alluded to..
and  then an immature fight ,that now she may regret and is contacting you.
you had simply walked away.(i dont blame you)

i'm pretty cynical,
you met, and there just doesnt seem to be anything of substance there to save..
its not like you posted with any emotion or joy at any part of the storyline?
me? notr her fault.. just nothing there, and i wouldnt go across town to see her again, much less go around the world.

Now *if* i thought we had some real connection during the visit. and you should certainly know if you did..
, i'd make every effort to first resolve the "issues" brought up..
 not just talk about them, truly resolve them to both our satisfaction,
 then certainly plan to see her again!!


if you're not sure there is any connection,or have to think about wether there is...
 then there isn't!!



good luck..


i would say your first instinct is usually the one you should listen to.

[JR]

Dude, do you really want to live that way? The meeting was mediocre at best and even that is a stretch of the imagination. There was absolutely NO joy in your T/R about meeting this lady.

I say flush the toilet and be done with it!

[BillyB]

I found your trip report phantom

Some of your lady's words were: "Oh, you a poor man, you can't support me."  "You have no money."

Nothing in your trip report seemed to stand out that is positive. You walked away an unhappy man.

Sounds like you have an uphill battle with this lady. Can your write a list here of all the great things about this woman that you can boast about? Is it a long list or short list? How about a list of things about her that turns you off? Which list is longer?

You did a WOVO and it was a failure. the opportunity to shine and put your best foot forward was not done by one or both of you. If you take a chance seeing her again, can you accept failure again without regret? If not, don't do it.

[phantom]

I've been thinking about the meeting, it was not great, to say the least.  I have made other contacts, so, I think I will just forget this one, tell her no thanks.  Next one will be WMVM.  Those words she said, still stings.

[Ade]

I've been thinking about the meeting, it was not great, to say the least.  I have made other contacts, so, I think I will just forget this one, tell her no thanks.  Next one will be WMVM.  Those words she said, still stings.

I guess anything I say about you 'n her will be moot now anyway but I will say this; be prepared, really prepared, for miscommunication to happen with future prospective partners, because it will. It will even happen with those that most would consider fluent English speakers. How you and she handle those moments of misunderstanding could very well define your relationship.

[Turboguy]

Good plan Phantom.   There are lots of good women over there that would love to meet you.   There is no way you are going to find long term happiness with that gal.   WOVO/WMVM always creates a lot of controversy but from one who has wasted a lot of times and trips in the past I think you are learning and the more you learn the more chance you have of success.   Good luck on the next trip.

My own experiences would differ a little from SJ's.   I didn't find a lot of problem with miscommunication.  I found what appeared to be miscommunications being something that gave me an inner view of the real woman I was meeting.   In other words what appeared to be miscommunications was really a harbinger of what life with that woman would really be.

[Ade]

My own experiences would differ a little from SJ's.   I didn't find a lot of problem with miscommunication.  I found what appeared to be miscommunications being something that gave me an inner view of the real woman I was meeting.   In other words what appeared to be miscommunications was really a harbinger of what life with that woman would really be.

So you didn't have problems with miscommunication? Or you did but it showed you some insight into the women? Or there was a problem how the women handled the miscommunication giving you a glimpse into how a relationship would be? Or none of these? Only the first of the possibles would make your experiences any different than mine and to be honest, if you have been communicating with foreign women and not had misunderstandings I would have to wonder what you've been talking about.

I guess you can tell that I find your paragraph above to be confusing and contradictory. Maybe you can explain it better?

[Turboguy]

I will try SJ.   I think what I was trying to say is that if there seems to be miscommunications my feelings are that it is often because the woman has some issues.   Maybe she is a woman who will never be happy no matter what.  Maybe she is the type of woman who always ignores the good and searches out the bad in situations.  Maybe she is a woman who thrives on controversy and confrontation.   Just some kind of issue.

I would exclude language based miscommunications which don't seem to be the case in our OP's comments.   Yes, if you tell your lady her stomach is flat and she thinks you said her stomach is fat that is miscommunication and not issues with the woman. 

[Turboguy]

SJ, my wife informs me that we are having a miscommunication and that you were saying the same thing that I was saying.  My wife is always right so I am positive it is the case.

I think the point of what I was trying to say is that in this particular case I don't think miscommunication was an issue at all.   He is doing the right thing in moving on.   

[Ade]

I will try SJ.   I think what I was trying to say is that if there seems to be miscommunications my feelings are that it is often because the woman has some issues.   Maybe she is a woman who will never be happy no matter what.  Maybe she is the type of woman who always ignores the good and searches out the bad in situations.  Maybe she is a woman who thrives on controversy and confrontation.   Just some kind of issue.

I would exclude language based miscommunications which don't seem to be the case in our OP's comments.   Yes, if you tell your lady her stomach is flat and she thinks you said her stomach is fat that is miscommunication and not issues with the woman. 

Ah, okay, I think I see where you are coming from although I think that a lot of times the misconceptions you are talking of are at least partly based on language difficulties anyway.

FWIW, it's quite possible (although unlikely I'll admit) that this woman of Phantom's thought she'd been deceived and he was poverty stricken and living off of credit. There have been any number of women deceived by WM in this way only to find out when they arrived in the west and have to live in a trailer. It only takes one scary story on the net to draw the wrong conclusions and to put the wind up someone.

Of course, Phantom's woman only had her own ignorance to blame in this situation but this kind of problem can be prevented with a little proactive discussion. My wife also found the thought of big loans to be a little counter intuitive and I've spent some time talking to her about our finances so she understands that a loan on a house is definitely not a bad thing and can even be a good thing as can credit cards.

Anyway, these things will happen and I'll repeat, how a guy and his woman handle those moments of misunderstanding could very well define the relationship.

Edit: I see that you posted just as I finished this. And yes, I think we were saying the same thing too. Mostly.

[Mars]

Dude, do you really want to live that way? The meeting was mediocre at best and even that is a stretch of the imagination. There was absolutely NO joy in your T/R about meeting this lady.

I say flush the toilet and be done with it!

I concur 100%

[RussianWind]

But, has anyone experienced this before with a lady?  Writing, after it seemed to fail?

Yes, it seems that guy kens1958 experiences it on a permanent basis, consult with him.

Can anyone offer advice on this one?

The train has gone. You could not step twice into the same river.

[BillyB]

  My wife is always right

Turbo, you are a wise man. There is only two words a man needs to say to create a successful marriage and that is "Yes Dear!"

[Jumper]

SJ-
diffinantly  agree on the points of miscommunication happening, being prepared for it,,
and how a couple handles it is really important long term.


I also think a few RW have been deceived initially on a guys financial situation.(initially)


on that topic though-
I would say far more than have been mislead, have simply had completely  unrealistic expectations of the west,,and are often simply young immature and think shows like *santa barabara* are somehow *real life"  for a *majority*..the life they came to was better financially.but perhaps not *fantasy like*

I would hazard a guess that very very precious few have come to the west to live in a trailor park.


most countries immigration guidelines and simple finances to engage in the venture dictate that percentage to be quite low,,
in fact the oposite is likely far more the norm?
that RW marrying west, almost certainly marry western men of above average income,much less trailor park status.
if they did so , then they turned an equally blind eye,,as the paperwork involved in any k1 or k3 would show a westerns mans finances at least in a general enough way that they made the choice certainl aware they wiouldn't be relocating to a * santa barbara* life

I always hear these tales of  trailor park horror..
but in a decade have never known of any..and there are thousands of FSU immigrants in my area.

[GQBlues]

Phantom-

Your first post had me a bit worried about you. Your last trip should not have left any uncertainty where you should be with this woman. The fact she contacted you again and got you all wound up and entertaining further possibilities with her tells me more about you than her. You should not be even in a situation asking for an advice under this circumstance. Please concentrate more on your own state and priority before anyone else.

If you want to start over in FSU again, wash this woman out of your hair and start fresh. You say you would like to pursue a WMVM trip. Frankly, I don't think it's in your personality but I would agree, based on this recent saga, neither being a WOVO. WMVM will be the lesser of two evils. At the very least it should give you a different female personality and experience than just banking on one and that can only be a good thing because it prevent you from getting all tied up with one woman in your thoughts.

Good luck and get this one behind you....

ps- Are you exploring possibilities on the homefront at all?

[GQBlues]

FWIW, it's quite possible (although unlikely I'll admit) that this woman of Phantom's thought she'd been deceived and he was poverty stricken and living off of credit. There have been any number of women deceived by WM in this way only to find out when they arrived in the west and have to live in a trailer. It only takes one scary story on the net to draw the wrong conclusions and to put the wind up someone.

If I pooled the total number of couples I personally knew and have heard of, then this reality is easily in the 15-20% range (bad, pretty bad, ridiculous cases). FSUWs have a legitimate reason to be worried. But FWIW, I don't think this applies to this particular woman.

[remiel6]

I agree with the other posters, but will also point out that although there may or may not have been a miscomunication the most disturbing thing to me was how she reacted to it. This type of reaction I would assume is not uncommon for her, at least I would assume that till proven otherwise. It was not a can we work this out, it was a hasty judgment and then after you are back home she has second thoughts. I understand people like this, but I try not to date them. It was an overreaction and I would assume if you continued with her, it would probably not be the only one. Some guys don't mind this, but to me it is better to try to reach an understanding and not jump off the cliff of assumptions, make choices you cannot correct, and then try to climb back up the cliff and say your sorry for jumping. You may be sorry, but I don't like how you solve the problem.

[I/O]

There is only two words a man needs to say to create a successful marriage and that is "Yes Dear!"

From someone who isn't married? Nevertheless, the advice contains some truth but omits the second part. "Yes Dear" and then go on and do what you were going to do anyway. Now that is success.

[XMan]

I'm in one of my more jaded moods. 
Having read your other post, IMO she treated you quite badly. 
That having been said, whomever wants a relationship least has all the power. 
If in any way you became involved with her again, she would universally dictate everything henceforth forever. 
The end. 
That's not a relationship you want to be in. 
Next.

[Ludmila]

Phantom,

Now the situation is definitely to your advantage.

If you are doubting and are undecided about this very lady, you can easily test it.
BUT , FIRST, YOU HAVE TO RECTIFY the state of things:

1. She cannot dictate to you WHEN TO MEET, WHAT TO DO, ETC. IT HAS TO BE A JOINT DECISION, TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF BOTH THE MAN AND THE LADY. She will adjust to your plans now that she has reconsidered her tactics, and, may be, strategy.

2. It would be a mistake to focus ONLY on this very lady, until she proves-- with her changed attitude-- otherwise.

3. The very fact she is suggesting you meet again tells me life has made her somewhat sober, and she landed to the -- TERRA FIRMA, and isn't flying in the clouds thinking that all the world is beneath her feet.

4. Therefore, you can lead now ( if you care, of course).

5. Try to learn her better in emails and phone calls. Bring up some subjects that will provoke some commentary, assessments, feelings( like stories that call for compassion, thoughtfulness, etc-- you don't want a cold, calculative , unattached female who will  look down at you. There are plenty like that among AW, aren't there?).

6. You need to show her that your next visit will happen, but only when it is LOGICAL.
   If she wants to command, manipulate and push you into decisions, it will be clear to you, that she is not worth it, and will remove your doubt for the future plans.

7. You need to see how badly SHE  needs you and the level of her motivation to build the relationship. 

[BillyB]

6. You need to show her that your next visit will happen, but only when it is LOGICAL.
 

It was LOGICAL for phantom's lady friend to ask him to come next week. It tells her a number of things she wants to learn.

1) Getting away from work on short notice means Phantom has some power at his workplace to do so. I'm sure she wants a man with power.

2) Buying airplane tickets on short notice will prove he has some money, especially since it is much more expensive to buy tickets on short notice. She needs a man that can afford her.

3) If Phantom does visit her on short notice, she will know that he's willing to bend over backwards to grant her wishes. She needs a "Yes" man in her life.