Entitlement Attitude

[Ade]

How 'entitlement attitudes' harm America
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=92966  

One of the more obvious examples of western "entitlement complex" was overlooked if you ask me; those who, for some bizarre reason, believe their (sometimes enormous) bonuses should be guaranteed rather than based on their or their employer's performance.  

And it doesn't surprise me that the usual suspects took a poke at social welfare states although it might surprise them to learn that I agree in part that a social welfare state can encourage an entitlement attitude in those that are predisposed to it. However, I'll also say that there are many ways of encouraging an entitlement attitude in people not all linked to the form of government they live under either; what is a common factor, IMO, is that the people who develop this attitude are predisposed to it and that comes down to education and upbringing.

[boaterguy]

You and me and us... as a common species and part of the same world.

Good point in what you say.  At what level are we just "us" as individuals, and not part of the rest of the world?  Probably better as a separate topic...  or maybe not.

YIKES! A supporter of the "New World Order". 

[Gator]

Unless during the year my own performance wished to be better, allocation of bonuses  based on performance is the proper choice. 

-  Prorated based on performance     

Correct answer if the purpose of the bonus is to motivate employees.

The difficult deliberation is deciding how much more the  better employees should receive vs. the average employees.  There were no underperforming employees because they either  improved or were shown the door.

[Turboguy]

My own feelings on this are that to base it on performance will likely cause some unrest.   Most everyone sees their own performance through rose colored glasses and the fact that Joe got a bigger bonus than he did will not motivate him to work harder, it will make him think that you don't like him and like Joe better.   

Unless you are able to establish the basis for a performance bonus in a clearly visible and open way it is a mistake to do it that way. 

A fixed amount for each can also cause unrest.   The Vice president of sales will be very unhappy that his amount was the same as the janitor got. 

Prorated on annual income is probably the fairest.

We used to do a small Christmas bonus that varied.   Mangement level got X, workers got 1/2 X, part time workers got 1/4 X.  It was a small amount of money but the grumling caused more problems than it was worth.   We went to an even amount for everyone and everyone was happy. 

Actually we were looking at changing our compensation and doing some profit sharing this year before the recession hit and I wrestled with that question for real for a while. 

[Gator]

My own feelings on this are that to base it on performance will likely cause some unrest.

TG, you are a business owner and I am stunned by your opinion.  It creates a sense of entitlement when the purpose of awarding a significant part of your profit should be to motivate.  You need to listen to your wife who seems to have broken away from her commie roots.

You opinion is not uncommon among small businesses where every employee is like family.   

For sure everyone should get something, and salary is an important starting point.  If you award the best employees with a higher amount, all I can say is that the best performing employees are happy and motivated to do it again.  If you have three salesmen, and one is outstanding, I hope you would reward him/her far more (2-3X) than the others.  Not only do you want him/her motivated, you don't want to lose him/her. If someone is unhappy, management needs to help that person improve.

You are correct in stating that the basis for awarding a bonus should be clear: 

Unless you are able to establish the basis for a performance bonus in a clearly visible and open way it is a mistake to do it that way.

We published our bonus guidelines.  The only hard number was a sliding scale to determine the size of the bonus pool - the higher the ROR, the higher the percentage of profits to be paid.  These two percentages could create a very sizable bonus pool. 

Actually we were looking at changing our compensation and doing some profit sharing this year before the recession hit and I wrestled with that question for real for a while. 

All of us feel the downturn.  You can use this slow period to change your compensation plan so when things start hopping again you are ready.  When things are bad, it helps the soul to plan for the return of  "boom times."  BTW, the word “sharing” smacks of entitlement. 

[RussianWind]

Correct answer if the purpose of the bonus is to motivate employees.

The difficult deliberation is deciding how much more the  better employees should receive vs. the average employees.  There were no underperforming employees because they either  improved or were shown the door.

Yes, this is why the correct desition should be based on tasks and results.
If we are speaking of two sales managers with equal tasks, it makes sense to give more to one who made more contracts. If we are speaking of a team (secretaries, managers etc), it would be more fair to give equal amounts. But based on annual income, I doubt it would be effectively for motivation.

[Mars]

My mother who was born and raised in the Soviet Union would agree with you as many other Soviets including my grant parents.  She has been working hard to achieve what she has. Before her job as a director of the Center of additional education for children she worked for several years at a Soviet construction company to receive an apartment (you know you could not buy any apartment at that time). She left her health at that company carrying the buckets and bags with cement and lime and so on. When she worked as a methodologist her salary was not so high and she made some money on the side knitting and sewing. Very often I was falling asleep to the noise of her sew machine. My grand mother lost her health and hearing working whole her life during the Soviet time at the metallurgical plant because the salary and some social benefits were much more decent. My neighbor, a doctor at a State regional clinic, was living with his wife and two daughters in a small one room with no kitchen apartment for 14 years. There was a long line of the Soviet doctors waiting for an apartment in our city and no any opportunity to purchase your own apartment (till the 1990s). I think there are many people in Russia and in other countries as well who would dislike to live with an ungrateful taker...

Olga, I am proud for your grandmother and mother.

However, such stories lend little to the current discussion which is supposed to be focused on the Entitlement Attitudes of FSU women who are involved in the International Dating scene.

It is probable that the outlook of these latter women has almost nothing in common with the attitudes of your fore-mothers.

In fact, there is probably a case to be made that the Entitlement Attitudes of current day FSU women is based, in part, on what they saw their fore-mothers had to go through to merely survive.

[OlgaH]

In fact, there is probably a case to be made that the Entitlement Attitudes of current day FSU women is based, in part, on what they saw their fore-mothers had to go through to merely survive.

Mars,

In fact, I'm a woman who are involved in the International Dating scene and I also has been working hard to achieve what I have because I was raised in such way as many other FSU women. No, I was not spoiled by my parents and more over by my state. There was not any "plate with blue edging" in my life (Russian expression).

[Vaughn]

There was not any "plate with blue edging" in my life (Russian expression).

    Expression understood - but Olga, is that a reference to Gzhel?

[OlgaH]

   Expression understood - but Olga, is that a reference to Gzhel?

 
Vaughn, I don't think there is a reference to Gzhel, in such case it would be "a plate with blue flowers" 

[Mars]

No, I was not spoiled by my parents and more over by my state.

This is what I was saying. 

Many of the FSU women in such a situation as you describe are now saying . . . It is now my turn to get everything in life as easily as I can.

[Turboguy]

Gator, one of the most difficult parts is measuring performance.   About everyone who works for me has some kind of bonus as part of their compensation.   When I first started this business and had a handful of part time employees doing production one of the problems I encountered was thier desire to work slow so they did not run out of work even when orders were backed up and people were screaming for delivery.   I can recall one machine we built that should take 8-10 man hours but it took 135.  If I was there they worked.  If I left they would head for the bar across the street.   I put a bonus where for every completed machine they split X amount of money and the units started to fly out the door.  We still have a similar system.   Production has to be at a certain level for it to kick in so we spend nothing when things are really slow.   An amount for each machine is divided up among the rest based on their job levels and how long they have been there.  This can be as much as 8 bucks an hour in the busiest time.   Our sales people (which are currently my son and daughter) are on a salary plus commission basis so the better they perform the more they make.  

I can often see when someone is a slacker.  They do get the same bonus but usually they don't hang around long.  If we get an disparity in the bonuses and don't make it totally clear how it is done then moral can be affected quite seriously.   I would love to be able to measure individual performance but I don't know of a fair and equitable way to do it with a small company like I have.    Yes, if you had 20 lathe operators doing the same part you could measure and reward accordingly.  

[RussianWind]

There was not any "plate with blue edging" in my life (Russian expression).

The expression is from a Russian movie.

Olga, you often use expressions what are not common for our American friends. It's better to accompany them with some explanations People who didn't see the movie will hardly understand its correct meaning.

[OlgaH]

This is what I was saying. 

Many of the FSU women in such a situation as you describe are now saying . . . It is now my turn to get everything in life as easily as I can.

Mars, I don't know how many women you met but I really feel sorry for you that you have never met any woman with different attitude. You attract a particular type of women, so may be the international dating is not for you?  

[Blues Fairy]

 If we get an disparity in the bonuses and don't make it totally clear how it is done then moral can be affected quite seriously.  

Agree.  Unless the allocation of bonus is clearly described in the contract there should be either equal bonus or none, since arbitrariness rather demotivates than motivates people. 

[OlgaH]

The expression is from a Russian movie.

Olga, you often use expressions what are not common for our American friends. It's better to accompany them with some explanations People who didn't see the movie will hardly understand its correct meaning.

RussianWind,

actually the praise is from the novel by Ilf and Petrov "The Golden Calf"  

A man before involving himself in international dating should learn about other culture as much as possible

[RussianWind]

actually the praise is from the novel by Ilf and Petrov "The Golden Calf"  

A man before involving himself in international dating should learn about other culture as much as possible

Olga, I don't think you need to educate me in elementary things  Of course originally it is from the novel but became common after the movie with Sergey Ursky.

Anyway when you started the international dating, how many catching lines of other cultures did you know yourself?

[OlgaH]

Olga, I don't think you need to educate me in elementary things   Of course originally it is from the novel but became common after the movie with Sergey Ursky.

I even don't have such intention to educate you or anybody, I just give some information to people who are interested. I think there is a nuance regarding the phrase:  became common among people who don't read  

Anyway when you started the international dating, how many catching lines of other cultures did you know yourself?

Other cultures have not been just my interest but also my education and I'm not afraid to admit that I'm still learning and always ready to learn something new;)

[Mars]

Mars, I don't know how many women you met but I really feel sorry for you that you have never met any woman with different attitude. You attract a particular type of women, so may be the international dating is not for you?  

I have no idea what you are talking about; and no idea where you get such information.

[Sculpto]

 

I agree with boaterguy. I think the US population as a whole has the worst entitlement attitude of any country I know of. Americans do believe they are entitled to spending 25% of the world's resources to maintain the "American lifestyle" - a big house, two/three big cars, vacations etc.

Now that nations like China and India are claiming their part of the finite "resource pie" there is no way the US will still be getting its 25%. Which means the level of life has to go down in the US: the Chinese no longer want to only eat rice every day, they want their meat, houses and cars. They are no less entitled to all these than Americans.

I don't see that Americans are wiling to sacrifice, influenced by the "me,me,me", "instant gratification", and consumerism mentality and the availability of easy credit (till recently).
Would be interesting to see how fast will the new world reality change the US entitlement attitude.

Speaking about the entitlement attitude of the FSUW women that RWD men have encountered, I don't think this has much to do with RW. I believe this is an international phenomenon of "older not so attractive man courting a young hot woman". I would not expect anything different if an American 50-year-old courted a hot American 22-25 year-old. Guys will have to pay in both cases.

[Sculpto]

It's not practically, it's theoretically. It takes two to tango. China depends on the US not less than the US depends on China.

Not counting the loans what do we actually depend on them for?  Poorly made crap that puts American (and everyone else on the planet) workers out of jobs?  We should cut the damn cord already.  China is a threat to the entire free world.  I do not want to live in "harmony China style".

BTW.. a very good friend who is a documentary photographer just came back from Tibet.  During her entire time in Tibet, entered via Nepal, she was followed, harrased and supervised.  She was unable to access her internet accounts.  Fortunately her film was not taken and destroyed.  I have been told the photos will be amazing, and disturbing.

[OlgaH]

I have no idea what you are talking about;

I'm not surprised. Sometimes I wonder if your generalization about FSU women is for real  

and no idea where you get such information.

"Elementary, Watson"   from your post about "Many of the FSU women..."

[Jumper]

Pitbull

I don't see that Americans are wiling to sacrifice, influenced by the "me,me,me", "instant gratification", and consumerism mentality and the availability of easy credit (till recently).
Would be interesting to see how fast will the new world reality change the US entitlement attitude.

While i agree over commercialism ran rampant in the west..
(and with your point that this entitlement *thought* about the FSU may be skewed here by older men chasing younger pretty and often spoiled women)


it is just as interesting to see the fast pace of change in the FSU...

if ever there was an area of the world that tried to mimic and idealize the hollywood *pop culture* of commercialism and decadence  , the very WORST of USA society,
it is the youth of the FSU.

the youth of america being mall ratz, and living for what designer jeans whomever is currently wearing..
have nothing on the cell phone.techno popMTv muzak,designer fashion slaves of much of the FSU youth.
whose ideals oft based on "status' - the cut of someones cloths,  which shoes, what car they can afford or not.

Since the youth are the future,, what do you see in a generation of either place?
and yes the feel *entitled* to such, the work ethic i neither country is dismal in the youth.

but its all generalizations.

i've known several young men recently signed up for a stint in the US military,
 because they felt they SHOULD.and they felt it was a good way to earn a college education they may not otherwise afford.
You cannot say they are not willing to sacrifice,or feel *entitled*.

[Jumper]

for those that posed the idsea, that social program sor government doleouts dont effect a poplutations entitlenment attitude.

orthat " situation" or enviroment does not effect a nationality of people


There has been a unintentional human experiment on this very subject for many many generations.
research it if you will.you have only to look at the
various indian reservations in the USA.
 it is a very very rare an dspecial  young person that comes out of that enviroment with any work ethic.

it may not be PC to say it ,
 but trust me, i am allowed

[Ludmila]

 A couple of words on "entitlement" attitude in Russia/FSU and whether it affects man/woman relationship.




Well, it's common knowledge,any economic system is reflected in the Constitution and legislation norms of a given country. You may call it  THE RULES OF THE GAME.

As is well known, communist/ socialist system doesn't encourage society members to take initiative, and teaches them  it will be the state/ govt that will be providing them with their needs ( "the govt did promise, and bound itself by law") . The members of the society, accordingly,  believe that if the govt /state is supposed to do it, "to be entitled to something"  is in accordance with the law. They believe,  there is nothing wrong about  to be  "entitled".  BECAUSE IT IS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE RULES OF THE GAME.That's the mentality of people in a  communist society .
 
 
As in US, where there are two, more or less, distinctive groups of the population, who look at life in a diff way ( liberal and conservative mentality), in Russia nowdays, too, there are people, who want to rely on themselves, and those who think it is the state/ govt that will solve their need. Meanwhile, Russian society has a long way to go for its members to change their mentality and rely on themselves. It doesn't happen overnight, and , as the example of the USA  latest elections showed,  this process is far from being irreversible.




 
However, socialist mentality of being entitled  has nothing to do  with personal relations between man and woman.
 
 
There are reasons, though, that a Russian woman's code of behavior  suggests that she believes that she is entitled to, say, a dinner from a man. In my opinion, it roots in traditions. Russia is a Euro-- Asian cultural space. Means, there will be a considerably bigger proportion of traditional/ conservative women. In accordance with the Russian tradition, historically, a man is a provider. This centuries old( unlike in US)  tradition  does not presuppose feminism.

The roles of man/woman are imprinted in the collective subconscience.
 
 
The Russian tradition, recorded deep on the genetic level of woman's conscience ( even if she is a career lady), calls for a man to be a provider, i.e. bear financial responsibility( among other functions) AND....... FOR THE MAN TO BE PROUD OF IT!!!!!
 
 
Hence, if the lady agrees to go to the restaurant with a man, she thinks ( subconsc) that she is giving the man a chance to prove he meets conventional requirements( of  bearing financ resposibility , in this case demonstrated at this small level). She thinks   HIS SELF ESTEEM IS SUPPOSED TO BE HIGHER, now that HE had a chance to PROVE IT TO THE LADY AND HIMSELF.
 
 Therefore, the lady is expected just to say  simply" thank you" ( it was a chance for the man to prove "he qualifies to be a future provider".
 
Even if it is the case of a lady with a  high pay check, she expects the man to pay. Otherwise, it will be humiliating for the man.
 
That is how i would explain what the logic of behavior of a Russian lady is like  in similar circumstances, and what she expects ( as a result of cultural and historic traditions).

If we are talking about dating, "she is entitled attitude" means " the man is given a chance to prove to the lady that he qualifies as a future provider". It is a simplification, of course, but , I hope, will throw light on the problem.