Entitlement Attitude

[Mars]

But people are the same everywhere.   

This is totally false.

In any given society or country of course there is a spectrum of behaviors from high to low, good to bad, etc., concerning any variable.

When people want to point to specific individuals who go against the trend of a country, then of course they can always find such examples.  But that provides no useful information for the purpose of understanding what the people in a country are like in general.

But what is more important for these discussions is the predominant or majority behavior.

It serves no purpose to look through rose colored glasses and make fairy tale comments.

[JohnDearGreen]

From your experiences, do you believe FSU women have the entitlement attitude?

I don't know if entitlement is the exact word you are looking for there.
But based on my small sample size, I would give a definite yes.  Examples:
a) Discuss places for a trip.  Lady says she loves skiing.  We must go.  Never does the question come up if I like skiiing or even want to go to a ski resort.
b) Similar discussion with different lady about beach resort.  I had suggested StP as a place for next meeting.  She says no, just more boring monuments and cathedrals,  we must go to the beach resort.  You will love it.
c) Many short discussions on restaurant choice for dinner.  Never would they ask what type of foods I like.  Always just she really likes food x, we must go to place y tonite.  You will like it.  Not a life changing discussion, but these small things will illustrate the attitude you will have to deal with (or choose not to deal with)
d) Another lady wanted to constantly take me around to tours of the city, all day, each day.  I say I am a little tired today, it is hot, and don't want to do a lot of walking.  Can we just stay close in to city center and talk and visit.  She gets very upset about me trying to change her carefully laid out plans.  It is nice of her to plan these things, but it might not be what I want.
On and on, many more similar situations I won't list.

[Ade]

FWIW, I've yet to see it in my wife, her family or her friends.

[pitbull]

If you talk about overall populations I would say the majority of people in the USA have a worse entitlement attitude than the FSU.

I agree with boaterguy. I think the US population as a whole has the worst entitlement attitude of any country I know of. Americans do believe they are entitled to spending 25% of the world's resources to maintain the "American lifestyle" - a big house, two/three big cars, vacations etc.

Now that nations like China and India are claiming their part of the finite "resource pie" there is no way the US will still be getting its 25%. Which means the level of life has to go down in the US: the Chinese no longer want to only eat rice every day, they want their meat, houses and cars. They are no less entitled to all these than Americans.

I don't see that Americans are wiling to sacrifice, influenced by the "me,me,me", "instant gratification", and consumerism mentality and the availability of easy credit (till recently).
Would be interesting to see how fast will the new world reality change the US entitlement attitude.

Speaking about the entitlement attitude of the FSUW women that RWD men have encountered, I don't think this has much to do with RW. I believe this is an international phenomenon of "older not so attractive man courting a young hot woman". I would not expect anything different if an American 50-year-old courted a hot American 22-25 year-old. Guys will have to pay in both cases.

[Gator]

Speaking about the entitlement attitude of the FSUW women that RWD men have encountered, I don't think this has much to do with RW. I believe this is an international phenomenon of "older not so attractive man courting a young hot woman". I would not expect anything different if an American 50-year-old courted a hot American 22-25 year-old. Guys will have to pay in both cases.

Guys will have to pay regardless of the age of the RW.  It costs money to move any RW and provide for her during her period of adjustment.  Giving her little "pretties" because you love her will cost money.

However, if a RW expects that you must give her more than you would spend on other RW simply because she is more beautiful than most, well that is entitlement of the highest form in this venture. In other words, it is horse kaka. 

I have heard stories of spoiled princesses demanding such, yet I have never encountered such even though I was an older guy courting younger, "hot" RW.  Never did I feel that I must pay because a woman is hot or has bigger breasts.  If I had, that would have been the end. 

I find that laughable.  If this were the case, that would mean an average looking woman would accept that she is not entitled to a manicure, good cosmetics, etc.     All women want to be made to feel that they are beautiful in their man's eyes.   

[Gator]

A question for the RW:

Assume you are the President of a private company.  The company had a great year and made a large profit.  The company's Board of Directors has instructed you to award a significant percentage of the profits to the employees as an annual bonus.

How should you divide the bonus money among the employees?

-  Equally
-  Prorated based on annual salary (which presumably matches responsibility)
-  Prorated based on performance     

[vwrw]

Unless during the year my own performance wished to be better, allocation of bonuses  based on performance is the proper choice. 

[Seeker]

This is totally false.

In any given society or country of course there is a spectrum of behaviors from high to low, good to bad, etc., concerning any variable.

When people want to point to specific individuals who go against the trend of a country, then of course they can always find such examples.  But that provides no useful information for the purpose of understanding what the people in a country are like in general.

But what is more important for these discussions is the predominant or majority behavior.

It serves no purpose to look through rose colored glasses and make fairy tale comments.

You are entitled to your opinion.   

[pitbull]

However, if a RW expects that you must give her more than you would spend on other RW simply because she is more beautiful than most, well that is entitlement of the highest form in this venture. In other words, it is horse kaka. 

Gator, I am not saying this is right, I am just offering my explanation of why so many RWD gentlemen have experienced entitlement attitudes from the RW they are courting. The clue here is the type of RW: hot and young or in most cases much hotter and younger than the men. It is a fact of life that the most beautiful and young women are more spoilt and feel entitled simply because they have so many men going after them. They can choose those men that threat them best. This is true for RW, AW, or any W for that matter.
If such a woman considers a man much older than herself, her sense of entitlement goes way up: he should treat her even nicer. after all, choosing the older guy she sacrifices on some levels (looks, hot male body, sexual vigor, energy level, ability to show him off for her girlfriends, etc.). In her view the older guy has to compensate for this by catering to her "entitlement".
I am not saying 100% of younger RW considering older AM are like that, but a big  part. The same as those young and hot AW that would consider a "sugar daddy" relationship.

The percentage of RWD demographics pursuing this kind of relationship is statistically way higher than the "normal" relationship in both US and FSU. Therefore the general view here is skewed towards "yes, RW have a sense of entitlement".

[Misha]

If such a woman considers a man much older than herself, her sense of entitlement goes way up: he should treat her even nicer. after all, choosing the older guy she sacrifices on some levels (looks, hot male body, sexual vigor, energy level, ability to show him off for her girlfriends, etc.). In her view the older guy has to compensate for this by catering to her "entitlement".

I would say that sums it up pretty nicely.

[I/O]

Just recalled an appropriate story. A friend of mine from France separated recently with his Frech girlfriend and I asked what happened. He said he realised she was more in his money than in him. One of examples he gave me - they planned to go to Turkey for vacations. He was ok to pay for her, he was ok to pay for her daughter but he strained himself when he was asked to pay for a daughter's boyfriend, a 20 y.o. guy who was already working himself 

Being "entitled" to my opinion, I don't think this is an example of "entitlement" but rather an example of a "user/s". The two IMO (to which I am entitled) are different. A user will not assume they are going to get what they ask for but will ask on the assumption they "might" get and if not, usually they'll move on to another potential provider.

IMO (to which I am entitled) Pitbull gets close with her comparison between USA and China (Substitute Au for USA if you like) but for a small point and that is "China" as expressed in the media is NOT representative of China. Most of us see but a fraction of the reality. For the most part (population) China remains a third world country (Ouch, watch 'em howl me down now) and most of that population is not thinking about what it is "entitled" to but rather where the next few coins or meals are coming from.

VWRW, you've raised what IMO (to which I am entitled) is a brilliant subject if examined with the emotional BS cast aside. I believe many affluent countries population suffer much more from the entitlement mentality than Russians or others who have come from a more humble financial basis. I've noticed among some of the Russians I associate with they do not "expect" to receive but they certainly "try" to receive given an opportunity. That has its origin in "wanting" whereas entitlement tends to have its origin in "having".

I've heard this RW "entitlement" thing tossed around since I have been reading these boards and my conclusion is no, it isn't the case for the most part. Using and "graballing" is part of what I have observed and I think the two are different. The example of the young hottie and the older men again, may or may not be an entitlement thing. Mostly, as I have observed, she will try and probably move on if she doesn't get what she wants but equally, for the most part she doesn't actually believe she will or should always get what she wants. Entitlement is a genuine expectation one will receive and a resentment when one doesn't.

[Seeker]

I/O I agree with you, but I am posting to thank you.

I laughed my "snip" off reading your post.  (to which I am entitled)

 

[RussianWind]

How should you divide the bonus money among the employees?

-  Prorated based on performance     

[Blues Fairy]

Americans do believe they are entitled to spending 25% of the world's resources to maintain the "American lifestyle"
I don't see that Americans are wiling to sacrifice, influenced by the "me,me,me", "instant gratification", and consumerism mentality

You forget that the consumerism mentality is precisely what drives the development of technology, of which for decades USA has been the largest exporter.  USA also supplies the highest dollar amount of international aid and is the principal contributor to such organizations as IMF, which pumps money into developing nations.  Amazing how frequently these facts get overlooked in self-righteous crusades against the vices of capitalism.

[Mars]

You forget that the consumerism mentality is precisely what drives the development of technology, of which for decades USA has been the largest exporter.  USA also supplies the highest dollar amount of international aid and is the principal contributor to such organizations as IMF, which pumps money into developing nations.  Amazing how frequently these facts get overlooked in self-righteous crusades against the vices of capitalism.

I agree 100%.  I am always mystified why so many citizens of USA bad mouth their own country.   And, I am not sure, but I think this tendency is much less pronounced for those who have willing chosen to live in this country, as opposed to those who just happened to be born here.

Also BF, be ready for those who will proclaim that on a national wealth basis, USA contributes less in aid than some other smaller countries.  However, when private giving is factored in, USA leads big time.  Many other countries and their citizens are so imbued with the idea that government does everything, they have no comprehension that private citizens in USA do much on their own.

[pitbull]

I agree 100%.  I am always mystified why so many citizens of USA bad mouth their own country.   And, I am not sure, but I think this tendency is much less pronounced for those who have willing chosen to live in this country, as opposed to those who just happened to be born here.

Also BF, be ready for those who will proclaim that on a national wealth basis, USA contributes less in aid than some other smaller countries.  However, when private giving is factored in, USA leads big time.  Many other countries and their citizens are so imbued with the idea that government does everything, they have no comprehension that private citizens in USA do much on their own.

American entitlement attitude at its best
Amazingly how many still believe that the US is "the best" in everything - education, medicine, technological progress etc., not seeing that times have changed and adjustments/changes need to be made. How much longer will the US be "#1 contributor in foreign aid" to third-world countries on borrowed money? The funny thing is that the US is practically owned by the third world country (I/) which is China.
It was really funny to hear that Obama was going to talk about "human rights" during his visit to China this week. The Chinese could have murdered every single Tibetan today and I bet noone would hear a peep from the US in response.

[Seeker]

American entitlement attitude at its best
Amazingly how many still believe that the US is "the best" in everything - education, medicine, technological progress etc., not seeing that times have changed and adjustments/changes need to be made. How much longer will the US be "#1 contributor in foreign aid" to third-world countries on borrowed money? The funny thing is that the US is practically owned by the third world country (I/) which is China.
It was really funny to hear that Obama was going to talk about "human rights" during his visit to China this week. The Chinese could have murdered every single Tibetan today and I bet noone would hear a peep from the US in response.

Pitbull... You see things many people here are afraid to see.  Or do not want to see.  Ironically the "random quote" on the left of my screen says it best....

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
(Aldous Huxley)

[I/O]

Pitbull: I'm pretty much in your camp on this one for the most part, and despite the grizzling of others, I'll bag my own (reasonably well off) country also. We expect, we demand, we grizzle, we sulk if we don't get etc. Entitlement is king in our own back yard. And.................Mars and others, criticising ones own isn't unpatriotic or disloyal or something to be amazed about. It's facing reality and seeing what needs fixing. Nevertheless, those who think China owns or virtually owns the USA right now have got to be kidding themselves or living in fairy land.

What's the measure? Foreign debt? Trade deficit with China? Yeah we have it too and I don't like it either But....................who owns who? They lend so we will buy theirs correct? We stop borrowing from them to buy theirs and who is the first to go arse up? Tain't us in the well established economies. Doomsayers can squeal all they like, the numbers don't always represent the numbers. We heard all these same arguments regarding the Japs in the 70's and 80's. Didn't materialise and it wont now for all the same reasons. There is two handles on this whip and the bigger one is the buyers.

OTOH, yes, USA, my own (in its tiny way) and a few others are the first to put hand in pocket to help those who can't (or wont) help themselves. Always seems ironic to me that these 2 dime republics grizzle and whinge about America and when one of their lawless neighbours fires a shot across their bow, the first place the population runs for sanctuary is the nearest USA embassy.

Seeker: Glad it brought a smile. It is my opinion, to which I am bloody well entitled (stamping my feet and pouting), that far too many people take these discussions and these boards far too seriously.

[RussianWind]

The funny thing is that the US is practically owned by the third world country (I/) which is China.

It's not practically, it's theoretically. It takes two to tango. China depends on the US not less than the US depends on China.

[Blues Fairy]

American entitlement attitude at its best
Amazingly how many still believe that the US is "the best" in everything - education, medicine, technological progress etc. ...

Being #1 in everything = entitlement attitude??    Weird logic. 

[Seeker]

It's not practically, it's theoretically. It takes two to tango. China depends on the US not less than the US depends on China.

Symbiotic relationships...  and differing views based upon our own experiences and perspectives.  It is a wonderful thing, and also the reason for much argument in places like this.  Can anyone say honestly that we as a whole (despite where we were born) do not need each others opinions and views and help to grow, as a world full of people trying to survive?

It seems in some ways in these discussions some do not look at the bigger picture.

Life has changed from the perceptions of the 1950's.

[Blues Fairy]

Can anyone say honestly that we as a whole (despite where we were born) do not need each others opinions and views and help to grow, as a world full of people trying to survive?

An absolutely meaningless statement.  "We as a whole" means what - nation? community? species? Whose opinions do you specifically need to ensure your individual growth and survival?  Or your survival as a species?  

[Seeker]

An absolutely meaningless statement.  "We as a whole" means what - nation? community? species? Whose opinions do you specifically need to ensure your individual growth and survival?  Or your survival as a species?  

You and me and us... as a common species and part of the same world.

Good point in what you say.  At what level are we just "us" as individuals, and not part of the rest of the world?  Probably better as a separate topic...  or maybe not.

[BillyB]

Americans do believe they are entitled to spending 25% of the world's resources to maintain the "American lifestyle" - a big house, two/three big cars, vacations etc.

Now that nations like China and India are claiming their part of the finite "resource pie" there is no way the US will still be getting its 25%.

There will always be a #1 nation or Empire at any givine time. Just be thankful America doesn't take this 25%. We buy it and if we are guilty, so are the nations that sell their resources to us. You should lay blame to countries like China and their suppliers more than us.

It's almost normal human behavior that if you have more money in your pocket, you will buy more for your family to support them and better their lifestyle. Americans do that and it's not called "entitlement". Most of us earned our money. It just so happens our government, economic system and way of life allows it's people to own more than other nation's peoples. That's a good thing.

[OlgaH]

I do think there are many people who would dislike to live with an ungrateful taker.

My mother who was born and raised in the Soviet Union would agree with you as many other Soviets including my grant parents.  She has been working hard to achieve what she has. Before her job as a director of the Center of additional education for children she worked for several years at a Soviet construction company to receive an apartment (you know you could not buy any apartment at that time). She left her health at that company carrying the buckets and bags with cement and lime and so on. When she worked as a methodologist her salary was not so high and she made some money on the side knitting and sewing. Very often I was falling asleep to the noise of her sew machine. My grand mother lost her health and hearing working whole her life during the Soviet time at the metallurgical plant because the salary and some social benefits were much more decent. My neighbor, a doctor at a State regional clinic, was living with his wife and two daughters in a small one room with no kitchen apartment for 14 years. There was a long line of the Soviet doctors waiting for an apartment in our city and no any opportunity to purchase your own apartment (till the 1990s). I think there are many people in Russia and in other countries as well who would dislike to live with an ungrateful taker...


How 'entitlement attitudes' harm America
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=92966