not sure where to put this, but 3 questions

[Jepito]

I wish.

Well, I must admit that he have an incredible sense of humor. So things passed easily.

But anyway. I didn't dream what I saw so I will no continue this.

Thanks for your help all.

[GregfromGa]

I'm not saying you have to line up 15 girls but at least touch base with 2 or 3 or have an agency there when things get off track. I've witnessed it too many times guys going there to meet one girl and her either not showing or not looking like her photos or her wanting to go shopping 1 hour after your plane lands. It is absolutely insane to go and visit 1 girl. I've met a dozen guys over the years in Obriens pub who went to visit their sweetheart only to find out she wasnt so sweet. It's too expensive and too time consuming to take that chance. Now if you have lots of money and time then it's not such a big deal I dont guess. And another thing for those in the process, writing to a girl for longer than 3 or 4 months without a visit is also just a big waste of your time and hers as well.

[RussianWind]

It is absolutely insane to go and visit 1 girl.

I wonder if someone's backup plan ever worked.

[Gylden]

Greg,
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but IMO what you wrote is just confirmation of the old saying "free advice is worth what you pay for it".
You do realize what you say is in complete conflict with a number of men's experience and that there are plenty of successes with what you are saying is insane and wasted time.
After following this thread for a time and knowing first hand of others experiences, I think I would have to say that trying to advise others how to proceed with their own affairs is the biggest waste of time (and borderline insane).
Don't get me wrong now, I think when people post their experiences here it can be a big help to others, just not a good idea to get fanatical about it.
 

[GregfromGa]

I wonder if someone's backup plan ever worked.

Probably more than their original plan if stats were kept. Think of it as insurance. Nobody likes paying those premiums until it's time to file the claim.

[GregfromGa]

Greg,
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but IMO what you wrote is just confirmation of the old saying "free advice is worth what you pay for it".
You do realize what you say is in complete conflict with a number of men's experience and that there are plenty of successes with what you are saying is insane and wasted time.
After following this thread for a time and knowing first hand of others experiences, I think I would have to say that trying to advise others how to proceed with their own affairs is the biggest waste of time (and borderline insane).
Don't get me wrong now, I think when people post their experiences here it can be a big help to others, just not a good idea to get fanatical about it.
 

So your saying that opinions are not needed here? As far as conflict of what others say, well my man they are wrong and I am right.

[Gylden]

Greg,
Good luck "my man" with your searching.
Oh and by the way, there are no K-marts in the FSU.
 

[GregfromGa]

Greg,
Good luck "my man" with your searching.
Oh and by the way, there are no K-marts in the FSU.
 

Searching, what searching? I've been married to a beautiful Ukrainian woman for going on 7 years. My first marriage by the way. Not that that matters in any of this. Just saying. I've been to Ukraine more times than I care to remember while dating her and going back and forth to see the family. I've been around here since the inception of this place and before this there were others. My first trip to Estonia and Ukraine was in 2001. I've drank beers with members here and attended weddings of other members here. I try not to sugarcoat this process because it's not a game and shouldnt be treated as so. It's a very very expensive process and often ends in flaming out. At least the dating part does anyway. It's a whole lot easier for someone sitting on that side of the pond to cast judgment and weigh in with big opinions when they have to fly 3 hours rather than 16. Just saying.

[Gylden]

Greg,
Sorry if I ruffled your feathers, but you see, you and me have had completely different experiences/approaches with the same great outcome. As yourself I have also been married to the best Ukrainian woman for 5 years now!! However I never looked on any forum or agency or needed a translator etc. I never even went to the FSU to meet my wife and only this last year took a vacation in Yalta, first time ever to the FSU.
I was just a confident about my method as you are about yours. Just I will say I have heard about the WMVM since reading here and I think maybe it can work for some.
It seems that you are also confident about European geography too, but I can tell you, it depends on where in Europe you live. From here it is the same expense as from the US and often involves over nighting somewhere before getting to your final destination.

[GregfromGa]

Greg,
Sorry if I ruffled your feathers, but you see, you and me have had completely different experiences/approaches with the same great outcome. As yourself I have also been married to the best Ukrainian woman for 5 years now!! However I never looked on any forum or agency or needed a translator etc. I never even went to the FSU to meet my wife and only this last year took a vacation in Yalta, first time ever to the FSU.
I was just a confident about my method as you are about yours. Just I will say I have heard about the WMVM since reading here and I think maybe it can work for some.
It seems that you are also confident about European geography too, but I can tell you, it depends on where in Europe you live. From here it is the same expense as from the US and often involves over nighting somewhere before getting to your final destination.

No feathers ruffled here. The last thing I want is a big pissing contest on a message board, but there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that it's easier to date Ukrainian wemmens LOL if you live anywhere in The EU. It's not even close to the logistics and hurdles that have to be jumped to take this on if you live in TX or CA or MN. As far as the how many women can be dated at a time well that takes some practice I would think as well as lots of money and it helps to be a good liar. I think this process is harder than it was 7 years ago. I think the scammers and professional daters are better while the men are more desperate due to being misinformed. This aint easy thats for sure.

[Ade]

No feathers ruffled here. The last thing I want is a big pissing contest on a message board, but there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that it's easier to date Ukrainian wemmens LOL if you live anywhere in The EU. It's not even close to the logistics and hurdles that have to be jumped to take this on if you live in TX or CA or MN. As far as the how many women can be dated at a time well that takes some practice I would think as well as lots of money and it helps to be a good liar. I think this process is harder than it was 7 years ago. I think the scammers and professional daters are better while the men are more desperate due to being misinformed. This aint easy thats for sure.

I can't see why. We still have to get to an airport and catch a plane or usually several and negotiate all the bits before, during and after our arrival in the FSU. The bit that you have that we don't is the long haul part over the Atlantic. Surely it can't be that surprising that a lot of us in the EU can still take the better part of a day to get from our homes to our partners  home towns? Personally, I think it's quite possible that someone in the US with a girlfriend in SPB, Kiev or Moscow can have an easier time negotiating all the "logistics and hurdles" than someone living in the EU with a girlfriend in more distant part of the FSU. The only time it's a lot easier is when an EU dude lives close to an airport with direct flights into one of the major FSU cities and his other half happens to live in those same cities. Otherwise, it depends.

[Misha]

It is absolutely insane to go and visit 1 girl.

However, on the poll, the WOVO option leads by close to a 3 to 1 margin  :noidea:

[BillyB]

I wonder if someone's backup plan ever worked.

Let's try it. Would you be my back up plan?

However, on the poll, the WOVO option leads by close to a 3 to 1 margin

We really don't know how much success that means for WOVO. 30 men may go to the FSU as a WOVO and 3 are successful. 10 men may go to the FSU and 3 are successful but the WOVO outnumber the WMVM 3 to 1. We need to understand the success ratio compared to failure to understand which method is most successful. There is no doubt from over 4 years reading at forums that more failure happens in WOVO trip reports. Most people who end up failing post a little and disappear forever so it would be difficult to get them involved in a poll for failures.

I did 4 VO

1) My ex fiancee had to be hospitalized the day our visa was approved. She went into culture shock before ever stepping in America.

2) Woman didn't show up. She just lost her job, staying with her parents out of town relying on them for financial support and didn't want her marrying a foreigner. I just talked to her a few days ago and she just had a baby and is happy.

3) Woman I met was living with an ex-boyfriend so I ended it until her life is completely free of past boyfriends. She enjoyed living in the center of Kiev and I don't think she was willing to downgrade to a cheaper apartment anytime soon.

4) Woman liked me but her parents didn't want to meet me and it affected her to the point I knew it was going to be an uphill battle and it was not worth it.

In each case I wrote Very Many and had lots of communication but other circumstances in life can ruin everything. 4 failed VO

Although I do VO, I recommend VM because I feel most guys do not communicate well with the ladies to gauge if a woman really likes them. I suspect most guys who go to the FSU never got on the phone with the lady their visiting. Also If things go bad on a VO,  I can get dates in the FSU within hours and not through an agency. Dating sites and meeting women on the street. It's easy to get phone numbers of the ladies on the street if you know how to present yourself.

My plan was to give one woman my undivided attention if she wanted it and she would understand that I dedicated my visit to only her. VO can be more romantic but it also has a higher failure rate. A guy doing a VM rarely stops searching at the first woman. Kuna did it and his wife wasn't the first woman he met.

[Misha]

We really don't know how much success that means for WOVO.

I was replying to the statement that it was "insane" to do a "WOVO." If it was truly insane to do a WOVO, why do we have so much men who replied to the poll married after doing a WOVO?

 

[RussianWind]

Let's try it. Would you be my back up plan?

Of course not, playboy Willy-Billy. I already have a coat.

[brave girl]

Of course not, playboy Willy-Billy. I already have a coat.

yes but is it BIG MONEY coat?? "750. US dollars"??   brave girl

[GregfromGa]

I can't see why. We still have to get to an airport and catch a plane or usually several and negotiate all the bits before, during and after our arrival in the FSU. The bit that you have that we don't is the long haul part over the Atlantic. Surely it can't be that surprising that a lot of us in the EU can still take the better part of a day to get from our homes to our partners  home towns? Personally, I think it's quite possible that someone in the US with a girlfriend in SPB, Kiev or Moscow can have an easier time negotiating all the "logistics and hurdles" than someone living in the EU with a girlfriend in more distant part of the FSU. The only time it's a lot easier is when an EU dude lives close to an airport with direct flights into one of the major FSU cities and his other half happens to live in those same cities. Otherwise, it depends.

Let me get this straight. You are saying basically that there is no difference in travel time for EU guys versus American guys? You even went so far as to say it might be easier for American guys if EU guys have remote girlfriends. What about American guys with gals in Siberia? This isnt a fair debate. Just pick up a map and airline schedule. Much less the costs of the tickets. I dont ever remember Delta or whoever just giving me a free ride across the Atlantic Ocean.

[Gylden]

"I dont ever remember Delta or whoever just giving me a free ride across the Atlantic Ocean."

Greg,
If you have information about free tickets around europe let us know, it would be some usefull information!

From where I live in europe (FYI not all of europe is EU) it is at least two connections to Kiev or one flight and a two hour train ride to the next flight plus the xtra time needed to ensure the connection, as it cannot be purchased as one ticket. It can be a bit quicker sometimes as compared to the US (SOMETIMES) but it also depends on where in the US you are comming from. It certainly is not any easier.

"but there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that it's easier to date Ukrainian wemmens LOL if you live anywhere in The EU."

[Ade]

Let me get this straight. You are saying basically that there is no difference in travel time for EU guys versus American guys? You even went so far as to say it might be easier for American guys if EU guys have remote girlfriends. What about American guys with gals in Siberia? This isnt a fair debate. Just pick up a map and airline schedule. Much less the costs of the tickets. I dont ever remember Delta or whoever just giving me a free ride across the Atlantic Ocean.

Dude, you talked of "logistics and hurdles". Sleeping across the Atlantic to me is not a logistical problem or much of a hurdle; the bit where your arse is sitting on the plane is the easy part. Yes, for most men in the US you take longer to get on the ground but that very much depends on where you start from and where you're going to, so it's not a given. And yes, maybe most would pay more for their flight tickets, but that's is not always a given either for the very same reasons.

When it comes to the "logistics and hurdles" of planning and executing a trip, I see little difference no matter where you are. The easiest route to my wife's town (which is only available twice a week btw) takes around 16 hours, a taxi, a train, a flight, another taxi, another flight and another taxi. Not everyone living over here has it as easy as that.

[Faux Pas]

Dude, you talked of "logistics and hurdles". Sleeping across the Atlantic to me is not a logistical problem or much of a hurdle; the bit where your arse is sitting on the plane is the easy part. Yes, for most men in the US you take longer to get on the ground but that very much depends on where you start from and where you're going to, so it's not a given. And yes, maybe most would pay more for their flight tickets, but that's is not always a given either for the very same reasons.

When it comes to the "logistics and hurdles" of planning and executing a trip, I see little difference no matter where you are. The easiest route to my wife's town (which is only available twice a week btw) takes around 16 hours, a taxi, a train, a flight, another taxi, another flight and another taxi. Not everyone living over here has it as easy as that.

SJ you seem to be of the belief that one can step straight onto a plane anywhere in America and just fly straight to where ever they want in Russia or FSU. This is clearly not the case. Of course depending on one's location and the chosen airline, an American can travel longer and farther with all the associated transfers, taxis and trains than a guy in the EU before ever having is ass in a seat and crossing the Atlantic. The US is a pretty big country, you know?

[boaterguy]

Dude, you talked of "logistics and hurdles". Sleeping across the Atlantic to me is not a logistical problem or much of a hurdle; the bit where your arse is sitting on the plane is the easy part. Yes, for most men in the US you take longer to get on the ground but that very much depends on where you start from and where you're going to, so it's not a given. And yes, maybe most would pay more for their flight tickets, but that's is not always a given either for the very same reasons.

When it comes to the "logistics and hurdles" of planning and executing a trip, I see little difference no matter where you are. The easiest route to my wife's town (which is only available twice a week btw) takes around 16 hours, a taxi, a train, a flight, another taxi, another flight and another taxi. Not everyone living over here has it as easy as that.

My trip to see my wife in Novosibirsk varied from 36-40 hours!

[Gylden]

Well, IMO I don’t think the VO will never convince the VM crowd that they are wrong, or the other way around. As it should be!
Does anyone think there is anything wrong with this statement?
Many have said, “To each his own” or “different strokes etc”, but from the ensuing insults and insinuations/accusations, it doesn’t sound so sincere.
If I were a “newbie” and came onto this board at this moment (and had half a brain) I would be skeptical of any advice given from those who expound their experience in the manner of some righteous belief, calling others idiots or suggesting that the experience of one is more valuable than another.
I would like to point out also that the FSU already tried the tactic of misinformation and censorship with their citizens, and it didn’t work. Folks found out anyway what was going on in the outside world. (All of you conspiracy junkies please try to refrain from commenting about this in reference to US politics, as it is just intended as an example)
Each and everyone who has traveled/contacted/married or any other experience with FSU and the women from the FSU should be considered a valued member to this board.
What I would recommend to anyone, is to read about what others have experienced and make their own decisions, as they relate to themselves.
Oh just so there is no confusion, I am a “good ol American too”

Cheers and Best Wishes

[KenC]

And the silly debate continues..................

Everyone's goal is to eventually get to the VO stage.

Many of the circumstances are unique.  Personally I was a WOVM!     I communicated with Lena for a few months before I went over.  Due to our age difference and postponement of any romantic leanings, she was well aware that I would be meeting others.  I wrote an introductory letter for the other women and lined up meetings.

Sometimes I think the VM crowd has just not yet come across "the one" yet.  At least not through written or any other communication besides face to face.  I also think that the VM crowd is willing to make the additional trip in order to make their final decision, while the VO people are just willing to make their semi final decision without the benefit of a face to face experience.

There are so many factors involved that there is no one correct way to do this.  How good of a connection two people are able to make before meeting is one of them.  How serious each of the couple are in pursuing each other is another.  How high the standards are for each is another.  Expectations, experience, personality, available time, schedule flexibility, income, .....the list of variables is endless.  Nailing down one specific "correct" method is impossible IMO.  Do what you think is right for you.
KenC

[Gylden]

 

[Ade]

SJ you seem to be of the belief that one can step straight onto a plane anywhere in America and just fly straight to where ever they want in Russia or FSU. This is clearly not the case. Of course depending on one's location and the chosen airline, an American can travel longer and farther with all the associated transfers, taxis and trains than a guy in the EU before ever having is ass in a seat and crossing the Atlantic. The US is a pretty big country, you know?

Please read what I've written. I in no way stated that, "one can step straight onto a plane anywhere in America and just fly straight to where ever they want in Russia or FSU". Clearly it isn't the case like that in Europe either, I can attest to that myself.

Go on read my posts again about this, you know you want to. You may find that I say that the determining factor is where your lady is in relation to where you live. It's possible to get a tough route in Europe just as you can get an easy route in the US. Or are you saying that someone in NYC with a girlfriend in Moscow has a harder time travelling than a Norwegian living in Alta with a girlfriend in Vladivostok?