English ability

[rjd400]

Yet another newbie question..

Previously the FSUW I corresponded with had a very good command of English.  The Ukrainian girl I actually dated (here in US) had an excellent command.  Even with that, I found from time to time there could still be misunderstandings (sometimes I think intentional  LOL).

But recently I've been corresponding with a couple of gals who have only basic English skills.  So I'm curious how many of you may have had correspondence/relationships with girls who only had a small knowledge of English (assuming of course your Russian is minimal or non-existant) and how you dealt with it.  I am learning Russian now, but can only hold on the most basic conversation, and I'm sure it will be a year or so before I could have a real "conversation". 

I guess I'm wondering if the effort should even be made, since I can't honestly see how the relationship would work, but I am curious about your experience.

I think some of these dating sites, besides asking which languages you speak, should have a "level" description as well, so you know how much English they know, and how much Russian you know, up front.

Thanks

[SANDRO43]

So I'm curious how many of you may have had correspondence/relationships with girls who only had a small knowledge of English (assuming of course your Russian is minimal or non-existant) and how you dealt with it.

The girls may rely on some translation help, usually provided by their agency. Not the best possible arrangement .

I think some of these dating sites, besides asking which languages you speak, should have a "level" description as well

Many of them have some sort of indicator, be it a word (fluent, fair, basic, etc.), a short sentence (speaks English, but not on the telephone, can write with the help of a dictionary, etc.), or a number (e.g. 1 to 5, without specifying if 1 is top or bottom level ).

[BillyB]

I think some of these dating sites, besides asking which languages you speak, should have a "level" description as well, so you know how much English they know, and how much Russian you know, up front.

When a RW judges the level of English she knows, RW in the big cities are more accurate in their description. When a RW from a small city says she knows good English, she probably knows moderate English. Doesn't mean she's lying or dumb but the level of education in the smaller cities are not be as good as compared to the bigger cities.

[myrddin]

It seems you're in an early search phase, fwiw I'd suggest looking for someone with decent English.   But if everything else seems to be in place, don't reject someone solely based on English ability.  You're right that you need good communication down the line (someone's gotta learn someone's language!), but right now you're just saying Hi and looking for mutual interest. 

One lady I dated started at "Basic+" but didn't ever improve.  That definitely hung in my thoughts as things tried to move forward.  Eventually it became clear there wasn't much effort.  The lack of improvement (and moreso, effort) were factors in ending it.

My lady now began with almost no English, but made dramatic progress (and claims to not be putting in much effort).  I now sometimes forget that she's still learning.

There are plenty of difficulties with the whole process; needing to learn the language from Square One is adding one more.  It's not insurmountable, but it is an issue.

[Shadow]

Some women overestimate their knowledge, some underestimate.

I have met women who are able to write very well, however lack speaking practice.

The best way to find out is call, or meet them.

[rjd400]

I think I've come to the point where I realize that I'm going to have to have the "phone conversation" earlier in the correspondence.  I've been writing with this one nice (of course) gal from Uzbekistan for a couple of weeks now, and I think the language barrier is going to be too much.
We had our first "call" yesterday, and it was great until we both got done with the "hello, how are you, fine" part.  After that, it kind of died. I did manage to ask about her family a bit (in Russian) and she asked me a bit about the weather.  But since her level of English is about the same as my level in Russian, it ended pretty quickly.
I know it sounds cold, but as I've posted before, I was surprised at the amount of TIME that is required in this endeavor, and to put so many hours into a correspondence only to realize it's not going to work due to communication issues sucks.  I'm sure she may be feeling the same way and I feel bad I wasted both of our times.

Yet another good reason (besides to weed out some scammers) to have the phone call ASAP in the correspondence.

-Bob

[XMan]

It's unfortunate, but eliminating the women who do not have good english skills leaves you with 2% of the pool remaining, at best.  I have yet to see a woman who did not overestimate her English ability (without even knowing that she was doing so).  Teachers and professional interpreters are the only ones I have ever seen who really did have good English ability.  (My experience only, your mileage may vary.)  There may be some out there, but think the 2% mark is generous.  It could be even less.

[tim 360]

I think you will find some who are quite good at writing English but their speaking skills will not be as good as their writing skills.  Some will overestimate their English skills and some will underestimate since they don't really have a solid benchmark for comparison.  Work on your Russian.

[Faux Pas]

Bob

It takes a very patient man to attempt communication with a woman with whom he does not share a common language. I do not possess that virtue. I tried early on to communicate with any woman that I fancied. It was clear to me that I couldn't do it thus, I only went for women with English speaking ability. I would recommend this to anyone. Sure it does eliminate a large number of ladies but I couldn't fathom a relationship with a lady to whom I could not communicate.

With that said, many guys have started relationships with ladies that didn't speak English and now have apparently happy marriages. It can be done but it adds another pitfall in a road of pitfalls. It also can add to another level of scam. I wouldn't have at all minded to pay for English lessons. But what about after the lessons and you find this was not the woman you thought she was? Not to discount that many just take the money and not the lessons. IMO, there are a number of things a man can do to insure the lady is sincere and genuinely interested in him. None of those can be accomplished if they are unable to communicate one on one.

My wife had "fair" English skills when we first started communicating. Couple her Russian accent and my Southern drawl our phone conversations were very trying. Of course over time it became much better but we had enough solid communication foundation to start. I don't know how those guys pull it off. Definitely, the patience of Job

[Chicagoguy]

2 years ago when I began dating the woman I am married to now someone posted on here that he had married a woman with no English ability. Although they were happy together he stated that if he had it to do over again he wouldn't do it.

It impressed me because I was just begining the same path. Now that she has been here for close to 9 months I would tend to agree.

My wife works very hard at it but it is time comsuming. For anything really important she sends me an e-mail translation or has a friend come over. My daughter teaches ESL and told me it is 10 years to be really fluent. How many "10 years" do we have ?

And remember, it is even more difficult for her. Still, I am lucky that we are both very happy together and each person must judge whether or not it can be done.

[ECOCKS]

FP and Chicago say it well.

Look for some English abilities unless you have a long timeline to invest in the relationship.

[JR]

I think dating only women with little to no English abilities is the best possible path to pursue for the following reasons:

1. She will overcompensate with sex.

2. You don't have to listen to her bitch all the time.

3. You can keep her completely isolated from society and thereby control her.

4. She won't be asking you for things.

5. She will overcompensate with sex.

6. When she wants you to do something you can just stare at her with a blank look
    on your face and say "Huh?"

7. Think of all those times you used to hear the dreaded phrase "We need to talk"
    and know that they are gone forever!

8. You can limit her knowledge of English to certain important 'bonding phrases'
    such as "Bring me a beer" or "Put another log on the fire."

9. She won't be asking your friends to have a talk with you about your late night
    extracurricular activies.

10. And the most important, She will overcompensate with sex!!!

[Seeker]

I think dating only women with little to no English abilities is the best possible path to pursue for the following reasons:

1. She will overcompensate with sex.

2. You don't have to listen to her bitch all the time.

3. You can keep her completely isolated from society and thereby control her.

4. She won't be asking you for things.

5. She will overcompensate with sex.

6. When she wants you to do something you can just stare at her with a blank look
    on your face and say "Huh?"

7. Think of all those times you used to hear the dreaded phrase "We need to talk"
    and know that they are gone forever!

8. You can limit her knowledge of English to certain important 'bonding phrases'
    such as "Bring me a beer" or "Put another log on the fire."

9. She won't be asking your friends to have a talk with you about your late night
    extracurricular activies.

10. And the most important, She will overcompensate with sex!!!

I am thinking (hoping) you are joking.  Based upon your sense of humor it seems obvious you are.  Just wanted to be sure....

[JR]

I am thinking (hoping) you are joking.  Based upon your sense of humor it seems obvious you are.  Just wanted to be sure....

Nope, I'm as serious as can be.....

[Admin]

Nope, I'm as serious as can be.....

JR,

You gotta know that sort of message (the original one) needs a little clarification.

- Dan

[Blues Fairy]

JR,
You gotta know that sort of message (the original one) needs a little clarification.

Oh c'mon Dan, a person's got to be pretty hopeless not to understand this sort of message.   And hopeless people generally don't do well in international, or local, dating anyway.

[JR]

JR,

You gotta know that sort of message (the original one) needs a little clarification.

- Dan

Ok, I'll clarify. It is my opinion that if you marry a woman you can't communicate with you're a F-ing Moron (or an uncaring, F-ing moron who wants a piece of meat and nothing more) and deserve the train wreck you'll most likely recieve.

[JR]

Disclaimer:

I know there are a few who have actually pulled off this stunt and at least claim their spouce is happy and I hope it is true for you. However I can think of no other single factor than the ability to communicate (not just speak the same language) or the lack thereof which has more potential (good and bad) to it than this one.

If you have managed this particular feat and both you and your lady are happy then my hat is off to you.

[Chicagoguy]

JollyRats,

Thanks for the tip of your hat !

[remiel6]

Since I fall into this category. I will reply. Patience, Patience, Patience, patience and when in doubt more Patience. If both you and the girl in question do not posses this trait then a) I wonder if this is the right endeavor for you and b) there is no way you will overcome the obstacles without it.
a language barrier is always difficult, but if people are motivated enough they learn it. When I first met my fiance she had limited English. After we first met in real life I started paying for private English lessons. Now her English is intermediate. She can watch movies and television shows in English and understand most of what is going on, but is still limited.
I would say it can be done but it adds an extra dimension to your relationship that some people do not have the stomach for. There is nothing wrong with that approach, but I will also add. There is no quick and easy in this process. it is not easier to find Ms. Right for you in the FSU than it is down the street, only more expensive. It is one other thing, more time consuming. So if you lack patience then you may be in trouble anyway, but....
that being said it can be done if the people involved are willing to find ways to make it work and to work to overcome the barriers.

[rjd400]

I guess I can see both sides.  If you have the TIME and PATIENCE then it might be worth pursuing a gal with little/no English ability. 
But in that case the reality is you are being attracted to the persons physical appearance alone, and the chemistry part isn't going to be decided on until much later.  I'm just being honest, I don't have that kind of patience.

I am currently learning Russian, and I'm progressing well (from what I've been told) since I started from zero.  This was helped in part when I was involved with someone who spoke Russian as a first language.  But there is a big difference between me telling what I want for lunch and discussing life changing issues.  The subtleties and intricacies of language when dealing with such sensitive subjects will probably take me years to learn (if I can learn them at all at this point). 

One thing I am trying to do is be more aware of and filter my use of slang.  I've found that even the most "common" expressions can throw a conversation into a tailspin...

Jolly rats...that was some funny stuff...
 

[remiel6]

I was attracted to the person writing the letters back to me. If you have a good translator and are not involved in a scam then you can find an awful lot about them from letters. It depends on the kind of letter writer you are. I've said this in other posts so its not new in any respect, but I firmly believe that being able to be open and honest and deep and intellectual and personal in a letter is a benefit in this endeavor. If you struggle with these things then I would reccommend limiting your search pool to people who are fluent in English or at least proficient.

Yes use of slang can tend to send a conversation into a tailspin as i've learned, but like all things slang is usually picked up on eventually.

[tfcrew]

I think dating only women with little to no English abilities is the best possible path to pursue for the following reasons:

1. She will overcompensate with sex.

2. You don't have to listen to her bitch all the time.

...stop right there.
Don't kid yourself........
You will just not understand the words.
Remember how Ricky Ricardo would swear in Spanish?

Those married to any foreign lady must accept that they will always prefer their native tongue.
Why do you [OP] want to learn Russian?
You wouldn't need it in this country.
 
 
 
 
 

[rjd400]

...stop right there.
Don't kid yourself........
You will just not understand the words.
Remember how Ricky Ricardo would swear in Spanish?

Those married to any foreign lady must accept that they will always prefer their native tongue.
Why do you [OP] want to learn Russian?
You wouldn't need it in this country.
 

 
 
 

Why would I want to learn Russian?  Well first, I think it would be rude to not learn the language, culture etc. of someone you are in love with and will be that close to.
Second, like you said, they will prefer their native tongue, so when she is having an "issue" that she feels more comfortable in Russian with, I'd like to, eventually, have the skill level to be able to be there for her without her having to translate first.  Finally, when much of her family speaks NO English (and doesn't have the need or desire to learn), how are you going to communicate with them?

[tfcrew]

 

I think it would be rude to not learn the language, culture etc. of someone you are in love with and will be that close to.

I would agree with this sure...if you were moving to Russia to live.

so when she is having an issue

Believe me..[look at my profile] any issue ..[again if you are living here in this country] will need to be resolved in English. Esp if it involves another English speaking person.
After all this is your native language right? And wouldn't it be prudent for a foreign spouse to learn it?
 

Finally, when much of her family speaks NO English (and doesn't have the need or desire to learn),... 

Usually I ask here..are you marring the woman or her family?
First hand experience..in-laws are the doom of many marriages.

Good luck though and I hope it all works out there for you.

Karl