Getting past the Cut & Paste

[Turboguy]

I am just getting back in the meeting new gals part after a year on the book shelf.   I don't think we have talked about this before and it might be interesting, maybe not.

It seems to me that the process starts off something like this.  I have this well thought out, spell checked letter that I have been using since I was in diapers.   So I see a listing I like and I paste it in, attach some photos.   Right now about half the time I get a standard letter back that she cuts and pastes to send me, or at best I get a three sentance answer that may just say something like Thanks for writing.  I like you.  write again.

I then have my standard letter two.  If she asks any questions I work the answers into what I paste in or work something personal in so it looks like a real letter, and then I get another cut and paste letter from her.    I got one from a gal from Kiev that went about like this.   My dearest darling Ray, Thanks for your letter.   You are so special to me.  Tell me Kevin, when are we going to meet?   Sometimes you also may get the same letter three times from a gal.  I have also noticed that the older gals with 3 kids write real letters.  The beautiful shaply ones in their 20's don't.  Of course that is because the older ones don't have as many guys throwing themselves at them.

Often, sooner or later you get real conversation, sometimes not.  Asking questions does not seem to help a lot.   They ignore them or add in a short answer or too many questions and they will just not answer because it is too much bother.   The key to getting them into real, one to one, communication seems to me to be making them think you are serious.   I don't think we have ever talked about this.   I am not going to say any more because my idea with this post was to try to start some good conversation and get ideas from everyone, not to pass along my assorted thinkings or random knowlege or whatever.   Any thoughts?

[BC]

May sound wierd... but..

how about handwritten snailmail?

[Turboguy]

Hey BC,  That brings back a lot of old memories.  I started this when that was all there was.   I think it is a good suggestion.   Sometimes you can't get the address till you get past the cut and paste stage anyway but I think if you sent perhaps some post cards and hand written letter and things like that it would help.  Humm, think I may to that with my # 1 gal.

[Casanova]

I found that you are right - if they feel you are serious, your chances are better to get a more sincere letter.  However, most RW & UW have a talk is cheap attitude.  It's rather paramount of the whole Russian mentality.

   Unless you are heading over in 4-6 weeks, I think letter writing is a waste of your, and there time.  Why?  Here's some of my experience, which cost a lot in time and money.  Your writing one another, and things are great.  Then comes the letter - sorry, I've met someone else, we are getting married... I really like you, but "Jon" came over, we met, and it feels like true love, so to be honest with you, I must end our relations.  Best of luck, and you'll always have a friend in Odessa (until she moves away to be married with "Jon" of course )))  Or, a dozen other situations can develop.  Maybe I'm wrong, really, but after a LOT of experience, I'd play it like this:

Introduction, who am I, what I'm into, family, personal strengths, personal weaknesses (some of you will not agree with that, but that's how I did it), what I was looking for in a woman,,,  and a "I'm interested in you, and VERY serious about marriage" "When can we meet? I have little time before having to leave Ukraine/Russia".  Etc.  These letters usually had a girl on the train and on her way to meet me that very week.  I was serious, and the ones that were serious too, were on their way.  I, and most RW/UW will take action as seriousness.  But alas, you perhaps are wanting an entirely different thing here... how to get them to really COMMUNICATE with you.

       I met one girl who got 40 letters IN ONE day!  Seriously.  Her marriage agency was calling her while she was with me on a date.  They didn't want to lose her.  She was great profit.  However, even she knew most of it was a great gamble.  Of those 40 letters, how many would even come over to ever "really" meet her, and not be meeting 40 other women?  (exaggeration, but maybe 15 is more like it ))

      It's a very tough game for them... and I don't mean game in the negative sense, but in hoping for a husband to come along (foreign),  it's not that easy for some of them. 

      I think you already know the answer to the question... show that your serious.  But how are you going to do that?  Have your arrival/departure dates set, if you can, be asking about how you would meet.  Is she coming to you, or you coming to her?  Will it be by train or plane, etc. etc.

      I am not much on letter writing anymore.  There was a time I was,,, but as many RW and UW already know... it's a great delusion, and chances are, most of "us" or "you" are NOT serious, and will NEVER show up to meet, or "come over".  I've seen it a dozen times.  And trust me... the Russian mentality is VERY MUCH talk is cheap, and take action type of mindset.  To them, actions speak, and words mean little.

      You might get a few girls that are sincere in letters that are "fresh" to the game, but many get jaded and learn very quickly.  The other's are largely interpreter's interjecting for them and or The Marriage Agency(s).  I know that from experience too, and from the 'inside', and in more cases than one.  Best bet, and most precious - don't put too much of your heart into it...  just know, as you probably already do, it's a great gamble... action is king... prepare to meet in real life, and know that the letters are like a pre-screening process or application for the job of wife, partner, best friend, lover, mistress, whatever....   

       That's my opinion... few, very few RW & UW have time for it - really, they just don't... as I said, the letter's you are getting, are probably interpreter's or the agencies themselves in many cases.  I'll NEVER forget the one UW girl I dated... 40 letters... and she herself told me the agency was writing them FOR her... and in one case COPIED the letter she wrote to me, and sent it out to the 40.  True story.

       You have time, you have money, but most precious is the soul.  Don't put too much soul onto the paper, and don't expect too much back... until you hop on a plane, go over, and meet... after meeting... then you can write letters to one another, and know you have something real (perhaps, and more likely).  I hope that helps at least a little.  Often times, we even lie to ourselves, or think that by writing letters, that suffices for the "real thing", and maybe for some it does... but at the end of the day, your still alone, or still without the wife/partner.  Action is king.

 

    

 

 

[TigerPaws]

Turboguy,

 Step off the beaten path and try something different, snail mail works and Express Mail is even better, sure it cost more but you will set yourself apart from the pack. get away from the e-mails, Instant Messaging and telephone calls at least until you have met with the lady (s). You can still use the cut and paste just be sure to have your letters translated into Russian by someone on this side of the pond that you have direct control over not someone in country, this way you know what you are sending and when the lady writes back (most likely in Russian) you will know that the translation has not been altered in any way. 

[Turboguy]

Great ideas and thoughts so far.  Thanks.   One of my secretaries is a Ukrainian gal who came her 5 months ago to marry an American man.  I try to keep my business and my personal life separate but if I do need help with translations that will sure beat trusting an agency.    Keep up the ideas.

[Albert]

Turbo, I agree with your basic first approach.  I do not agree with those who say e-mail is a waste of time.  I have met with over 155 FSU gals, and EVERYONE of them involved ONLY e-mail correspondence.

The cut and past method is great.  All it takes is just a little care to make sure you answer their questions and add a little personal tidbit (about them) here and there.  All communication before the first meeting is just for screening purposes anyway, for both parties.  Don't ask them too many questions in each letter, 2-3 seems to work best.  But be sure to include these questions.  It is best to keep them on the defensive (so to speak) by asking questions that take up their time to answer.  That way they don't have as much time to ask you questions.  If they ask you questions, that really screws up the standardized letter you send out.  Sooner or later, your letters will answer all their questions anyway, if you can just hold them off from their questions.  So, of course, you have to have a set of very well prepared letters to go from day one that answers all the standard questions.

But, yes, I agree with those who say that the gals don't want to get into a long letter writing campaign.  Neither do I.  So I don't send out any e-mails to new gals until about 6 weeks before my planned arrival.  I tell them in first e-mail that I will be there in 6 weeks.  During the 6 weeks, we exchange 6-10 e-mails.  After first 2-3, I even put the gals on a once a week routine, otherwise the time (for me) would be too overwhelming since I start out corresponding with hundreds of women.  This is cut down weekly, so that by last 1-2 e-mails I am down to 10-15 first line gals and about the same number of backups.

Also, because of desire by both parties to not get involved in long correspondence, that pretty much rules out snail mail.  Given the turn around times, you may be talking about a 4-6 month time period there compared to what you can achieve in a 6 week period with e-mail, even where you restrict to one e-mail a week.

I NEVER deal with women who cannot correspond in English, so that cuts out all of the problems of translating for me.

[TigerPaws]

albert,

 Now do not get me wrong dating 155 different women is not small accomplishment, but are you just looking for a good time or a more long lasting relationship?

[Turboguy]

Too each his own but I think Albert has been pretty upfront that he is not looking for a wife.   Second point that is not 155 women he as dated, that is 155 notches on is pistola.  He must be slowing down.  When he started her it was 150.  At that rate he may never get over the 300 mark

[Casanova]

a

Turbo, I agree with your basic first approach.  I do not agree with those who say e-mail is a waste of time.  I have met with over 155 FSU gals, and EVERYONE of them involved ONLY e-mail correspondence.

     You've met over 155 FSU gals that speak and write english fluent enought to correspond with you by email?  Interesting.  I've met a LOT of men, men with a LOT of money, and who have 12 or more visits to the FSU under their belt... plus a LOT of experience on my own, and quite frankly, to rely on this method alone, you must have had both a LOT of time over there, AND a very well organized letter writing campaign and methodology.  In order to get that amount of real women showing, you must have written hundreds more, which indicates a cut a paste approach, or one who's stuck to the keyboard   Congratulations

     I still think that writing letter's, unless one is OVER THERE, or 4-6 weeks away from arrival to meet, is a collosal WASTE OF TIME.  I also KNOW that a certain percentage of the women on a majority of sites either 1. Don't exist or are models 2. Are not serious or SINCERE  3. Aren't writing the letter's themselves in part, or WHOLE.   And THAT is a fact.  I knew one interpreter who confessed to have done this, not too mention a date who SAW IT DONE with HER LETTERS to over 40 other men.  Imagine, the interpreter (a male) says: "You'll never know what it feels like to be a man, romancing other men behind the computer screen, trying to woo and entice them to COME OVER".  And that, dear friends, is from someone many of you WOULD KNOW.  True story.  Why?  It put's money in their pockets.

      That said, I do agree, if someone is 4-6 weeks on approach to meet, with plane tickets acquired, OR OVER THERE already, given the percentages that are wash outs, not serious, or simply NOT INTERESTED, it's a SUPER great way to get a lot of girls on the train (or plane, which I think is foolish unless you are short on time) and on their way to meet you in Kiev, Moscow, Yalta, Sochi, or wherever you happen to be

       I guess, when writing to women that may not be real, may not be sincere, or may not remain available outside the given parameters (your either 4-6 weeks before arriving to meet or available to do so OR already THERE), some men may make themselves feel better, sort of a mental masturbation perhaps, or an ego rub, or simply self delusion...  perhaps they say to themselves "I can't be OVER THERE, so I'll make up for it by writing dozens or hundreds of women", and feel better about there LACK OF A REAL RELATIONSHIP with this virtual attempt or VIRTUAL relationship 'online' that may or may not exist.

       Look, it's very simple.  Almost ALL RW & UW have MOBILE PHONES!!!  In fact, dear friends, I've NEVER met but ONE who didn't!!!  Also, internet cafes ARE EVERYWHERE in the FSU!!!  This means that these gals can get on Yahoo Messenger, MSN Messenger, ICQ at their local internet cafe - and many DO... and better yet, EVEN THE WEBCAM!!!  Secondly, after the first few letter exchanges (for those timid types or unsure or who are slow to make that first meeting) one should have a PHONE NUMBER IN HAND!!!  If not, MOVE ON!  Then you CALL HER!!! 

      As I write this, and after having read these boards on the net about dating Russian women, I have to wonder, how many really are stuck in this false ideology that the FSU is not "wired"?  In other words, sure, when you hop on a train to go to small town or even south Ukraine, it's like stepping back 75 years back in time, and not to 1950's America, but to the Great Depression - and that's no joke.  However, they have SUPER great MODERN internet cafes, and the BEST internet cafe's in Kiev are about 2-10 grivna's an hour for use, depending (in some cases) on the time of the day.  Many of those have webcams, chat messenger software already installed, and even IP Phones!!!  Yes... it's true.  This is a GREAT WAY to see if your gal is REAL.

     With Skype, you and your gal can talk VERY inexpensive.  Also, there is no a phone call option online through Yahoo.

        STOP The letter writting after the 3-5th letter, at the most.  My fiance' is here now... she's speaking not just about her, but her friends experience, and MINDSET.  Letter's are nice, but mostly EMPTY WORDS (echoes many of my exgirlfriends over there).  Quoting her "It's SHAKING THE AIR".  Take action, get the phone number at the very least, AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.  ALMOST EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE has a mobile phone!!!  It's TRUE!!!  Get off the keyboard, and GET ON THE PHONE, and get your gal to the INTERNET CAFE instead of just paying for Marriage Agency INTERPRETER's and OWNER PROFITS, and put that cash to your OWN USE, and HERS!

      If she doesn't know the computer, she can within 2 hours... trust me... and very few DO NOT know how to use the computer.  These are MODERN gals, with traditional values, a bad infrastructure or old building to live in, but VERY Modern up to date PUBLIC INTERNET CAFES complete with webcams (in some cases), chat software fully operational and installed, and IP telephones, and MOBILE phones ))

      Sure, letter writing can be VERY effective, and GREAT for lining up dates IF YOU ARE within the 2 parameter's given, otherwise, your involving in a form of mental masturbation, or self delusion... or just pen pals, or self delusion.  I know,,, I've been there, and DONE that

 

[Turboguy]

Good post Casanova,   I have had some of the guys tell me they have a problem that goes about like this.    Since it is expensive to travel they want to write a girl for a while to make sure she is serious before they plunk down the bread for the ticket.  They have found that when they have writting enough to be sure the girl is interested seems to be about the same point the girl decides he is just a pen pal and stops writing.

Now since many of us feel long letter writing campaigns are not the way to go how would we deal with this hypothetical situation.   We don't have vacation time till April.  We see a new gal who joins our service that we really like, it is December.  We know we have the best luck with new gals.   Are we better (1) saving her info till early March to make contact,  (2) to go ahead and take a chance on a long writing campaign, (3) forgettting her and look for more we really like closer to our trip or (4) ?    Again this is hypothetical.  I will have 3-4 trips by april myself.   I may have another of our members problems in mind a bit as I ask though.

[KenC]

Turbo,

Have you ever thought about running an ad in the Ukrainian newspapers?  The appealing part of this is that you will attract women not in any agency.

KenC

[Bruno]

Have you ever thought about running an ad in the Ukrainian newspapers?

http://aviso.ua/aviso/eng/place.asp

http://www.freead.org/freead/

 

[Turboguy]

Thanks Ken and Bruno.  I have thought about it.  I have done some listing with good results.  I think an ad might be a good thing to try.   Right now I am going to go slow until after my trip to Kiev in a few weeks.  I really liked the gal I met there and she seemed to be really into me.  Once I see how 5 more days with her goes, I will make some decisions about my next step and if I still want to meet more gals, I think I will run a lot of ads and see what happens.   I think the thought that you are meeting gals who are not in an agency has a lot of good in it.

[TigerPaws]

     You've met over 155 FSU gals that speak and write english fluent enought to correspond with you by email?  Interesting.  I've met a LOT of men, men with a LOT of money, and who have 12 or more visits to the FSU under their belt... plus a LOT of experience on my own, and quite frankly, to rely on this method alone, you must have had both a LOT of time over there, AND a very well organized letter writing campaign and methodology.  In order to get that amount of real women showing, you must have written hundreds more, which indicates a cut a paste approach, or one who's stuck to the keyboard   Congratulations  

Casanova,

 While I generally agree with you, it is with personal experience that I disagree that letter writing has little to no value. Yes a man has to be very organized and methodical in his letter writing approach and maybe that is the problem far too many men are not up to the task.

 I will also agree that far too many men are deluding themselves into believing they have the ability to attract a lady for the FSU. After seeing hunderds of e-mails and postal letters from men written to some very attractive Russian ladies I should not be but I am always surprised by the number of idiots writing these girls. I will never forget one letter written by some yahoo who sent a photo of his truck and dog asking the girl if she liked guns and hunting. The letter was hand written on scratch paper and snail mailed to the girl along with the photo's. This was but one of several hundred letters this girl received after her photo and bio appeared in the Anastasia Agencies printed catalog. But when a quality letter arrived in Russian with high quality and appropriate photographs they were read carefully and set aside to be looked at again later.

 I was amazed at the number of garbage letters an attractive girl received, maybe it is because I give people too much credit to being intelligent. As I have often said an intelligent dog has an IQ of about 60 and the average person has an IQ around 90. Far too many people are looking for that extra 30 points. 

 

[jb]

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As I have often said an intelligent dog has an IQ of about 60 and the average person has an IQ around 90.

You didn't really say that, did you?
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[docetae]

Just my experience on it . I'm not looking especially for a FSU woman,  but as I'm working more and more with Ukraine, I use one agency "just  to try". I'm corresponding only with one woman and there will be 5  months between our first mail exchange and the time  I meet her  next march.

Her letter seems to be honest, she is remembering me things she told me  2 months ago during our mail exchange. The agency is not recommended  (Confidentialconnections, but in fact I choose it because I was working  in the past for the provider hosting it and I know they have a strong  anti scam policy).

I have done routine checks (other agency and google search for girls  with the same profile _26,28 years old, a child_ ,  in the same  town) and do not find nothing suspect. The agency is providing web cam  so I'm grabbing images from their office automatically, and I see her  getting my letter several times.

So wait and see ... I know if this doesn't work, this will be sad but  starting next year, I have 3 travels planned there ...and I will try to  meet people in this case without using agencies ...

Writing a free ads seems the best way for me to attract scammers ....

An another question, for people with company in Ukraine using this forum, could you contact me in private ? thks

Doc

[TigerPaws]

As I have often said an intelligent dog has an IQ of about 60 and the average person has an IQ around 90.

You didn't really say that, did you?
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Yes!

[jb]

Well,,, that tells us who isn't a Mensa candidate, doesn't it?

[TigerPaws]

Well,,, that tells us who isn't a Mensa candidate, doesn't it?

Do not worry jb I will not trade barbs with and unarmed man.

 

[jb]

I just view irrational statements, as yours above, to be another nail in a troll's coffin.

[TigerPaws]

I just view irrational statements, as yours above, to be another nail in a troll's coffin.

LoL

 

[Ste]

Doesn't a certain Mr Bush have an IQ of 90 or something?

Dunno what mine is but it must be more than that since I can work the video recorder.

Ste

[jb]

Doesn't a certain Mr Bush have an IQ of 90 or something?

If you are referring to our 43rd President, I doubt anyone with an IQ  of only 90 could get through both Yale and Harvard, and finish up with  a higher class standing than that French looking guy John Kerry, (who  BTW, was in Vietnam).  I'm sure Bush is  considerably  brighter than that.

[Ste]

Doesn't a certain Mr Bush have an IQ of 90 or something?

If you are referring to our 43rd President, I doubt anyone with an IQ  of only 90 could get through both Yale and Harvard, and finish up with  a higher class standing than that French looking guy John Kerry, (who  BTW, was in Vietnam). I'm sure Bush is considerably  brighter than that.
[/quote]

Actually I'm Googling now, it's an Urban Legend!

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.htm

Funnily enough, it was my American visitors who told me his IQ was 91, I dunno what side of the house they support but she's from Oklahoma if that indicates a likley preference.

He's from UK (Green Card Boy!) so he's no idea although I belive he can vote(?).

In UK we even set up polling stations to allow asylum seeking iraqis and kurds to vote in the Iraqi elections. We got caught up in a riot at one on the the way to a footy game!

This Country....

Ste