How to court an aloof, temperamental and capricious Russian woman?

[CanadaMan]

I decided to move my story to this Forum as my GF is definitely not a scammer as I had once feared and because I really would like to hear from a Russian woman’s perspective what their customs are for a relationship of our nature. I would like to know what a Russian woman thinks and expects to happen at the stage our relationship is in.

My description of her character/personality may sound harsh to some here but it is spot on the money. I always call a spade a spade.
Despite her personality type I still love her, warts and all.

I will answer the questions/replies posted by Faux Pas, Dave and RW and then try to fill in more of the blanks to our situation after that.

FP
“She knows where you stand but, you still have to win her”

You are absolutely right there. But I really am not very good at this part of the game.
In fact, my strategy for the next little while was to wait for her to make the first move and gauge her sincerity from it.

FP
“Inform her that you are coming. Rent yourself an apartment and gauge her reaction. Decide then to pull the trigger or not. Don't expect to stay with her unless she lives alone (I can't remember).”

Would you just come out and say “I’d like to visit you at such and such a time” or would you ask her if she would like me to come and visit her?
When you say “Decide then to pull the trigger or not” are you meaning to go on the trip or not, or something else?

She lives with her 20 year old daughter who’s a student, in a tiny apartment.

FP
“Discount DR heavily, the poor girl was probably scared to death and not capable of rational thought. Give her the benefit of that doubt”

Absolutely! No question about it. She also arrived to the DR with a cold she had caught earlier in the week. Her immune system was probably weakened with the anticipation/anxiety leading up to the trip.
So I felt sorry for her, on many counts, during the trip.

Dave:
“So I didn't even realize you'd taken your Lady to the Dominican until Gylden mentioned it last week!?!
What resort did you go to?”

We stayed at the Punta Cana Princess. That was a story unto itself. 

Yes I built in a few extra days at the end of the trip for her to get back to Perm and re-adjust.
She loses two days just for the travel and time-zone adjustment. She also was able to add one more day off from work to get some badly needed sleep on Tuesday.

Dave:
“Don't take this as criticism, but why did you feel it necessary to ask her to marry you so soon? You only met her for the first time in December. Why the rush? Only 2 months ago you were expressing doubts when starting this Thread.
Your heart is in the right place Rick, but I think you rushed this and may have put too much pressure on her at once.
She isn't a young Woman and aside from all the usual considerations of moving to Canada she has a daughter who is still in school.”

I’ll try to give the reasons for my rush to marry and hopefully some will better understand my position.

First off, I am not a young stud like some on this forum. I’m not even in my 30’s or 40’s.
Time is not on my side. I am 54 and not getting younger as each day passes.

I have never married before!

When you are young you are more patient, you think you have your whole life ahead of you and lots of time to play the field and make decisions about marriage.

I have three brothers who I admit have influenced me in this regard recently.
My older brother married for the first time just four years ago.
One of my younger half-brothers just got married this past October, he’s 37.
My other half-brother is busy cementing his relationship with his GF with a second child who is expected to be born in a few months. They’ll probably marry in the not-too-distant future.

I am retired. I have a lot of time on my hands as a result. Time I’d like to spend together with a loved one, rather than apart.

If my GF was living in my city, rather than Russia, I’d slow things down a fair bit because we’d be able to see each other as often as we’d like.

I mentioned in another thread that I am not a fan of flying in airplanes. That’s an understatement.

The Haiti earthquake (EQ) brought home the point that life can be so precarious and fleeting that you should try to spend as much time together with the one you love, for as the famous 1934 pop song goes:‘For All We Know we may never meet again”.

Another reason, which plays into the time-factor, is the waiting period that we would have to endure once we were married.
Even if we married tomorrow, my GF would not be able to come to Canada for six to twelve months or more.

So yes, I admit by all standards I rushed my marriage proposal and she definitely felt pressured. But these are unusual circumstances as I outlined above, you must admit.

RW:
“You know what... I can hear a chorus of disagreed men but I advice to do this: call her today and make a proposal through the phone. It is not less romantic and it is the right moment just after the trip.

God bless you, kids “

Yeah, as Dave pointed out I already did propose to her in the DR. And after that, the more I talked to her about marriage the more agitated she became and finally she told me “Don’t worry, be happy”.
I only wish we were still kids! Then I wouldn't be rushing things at all.


Now I’d like to fill in a few more blanks. I’ll start with her reaction to my marriage proposal.

We had previously talked about marriage when I was in Russia and I asked her if she would move to Canada to live with me. She said she would. I asked her about her daughter who is living with her now, whether she would be alright. She said yes, she is old enough to be on her own now.
We had also previously talked about the costs of her daughter’s university tuition.

She is currently studying to be a nurse and does not have to pay for these studies but if she continues on with her current goal of studying to become a doctor, in a couple of years, then someone will have to pay for those studies.

My GF admitted to me that the university costs would be very expensive and that she did not know at this point in time how she would finance them (family/friends etc.).
She certainly could not afford to finance them on her own.
I tried to assure her that I could easily afford to cover her tuition fees for university.

She was probably dubious of my response because I had told her that my pension is not very big. I had also told her of another source of income that I have but didn’t go into details about it. Let’s just say that she doesn’t know my complete financial picture at this stage and I didn’t want to divulge it at this point in time for obvious reasons.

She also told me that if she moved to Canada her apartment rent would no longer be partly subsidized by the government. I told her that wouldn't be a problem either.

Fast forward to my marriage proposal. Her response to my proposal was not a “Yes” or “No”. Rather it was, “When I return to Russia I will ask my friend how much the tuition fees will be and then let you know”.

Once again I tried to tell her that wasn’t necessary, that I’d be able to afford them.
In the end I managed to get her to agree to tell me her decision Yes/No before she left on her flight back to Russia.

I kept my mouth shut about it after that (this was mid-trip when she said the above).
We were very quiet at the airport. I didn’t say a thing about it. She left the building without having told me her decision. The last thing she did/said to me before leaving the building; she kissed me twice on the lips quickly and said “Write me”. I said “OK”.
She looked back at me three or four times before she was out the door, I waved each time and that was it.

[ECOCKS]

Why would anyone want to have a serious relationship with a woman like this?

[tim 360]

I don't understand why you want to marry this woman?  Pardon me, but this sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.  Do you imagine getting married that things with her will improve?  Jus' my 2 cents.  :ohbrother:

[CanadaMan]

Why would anyone want to have a serious relationship with a woman like this?

Good question!
I can't give a really good answer other than: I'm strongly attracted to her, know we have quite a few things in common and think/hope that she will calm down about her worries after a while.
In other words I'm basically an optimist.

She also asked if she could visit her family 4-5 times a year and I said sure if you want to.
Realistically though, if she was happy with the marriage, I don't think even once or twice a year would be a problem for her.

[CanadaMan]

I don't understand why you want to marry this woman?  Pardon me, but this sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.  Do you imagine getting married that things with her will improve?  Jus' my 2 cents.  :ohbrother:

 
 See my answer above. 

[XMan]

Find a woman who is not aloof, temperamental, and capricious.  Avoid obsequious and clairvoyant while you are at it.

They exist. 

I have seen them on film and in the wild. 

[Misha]

I'm strongly attracted to her, know we have quite a few things in common and think/hope that she will calm down about her worries after a while.

And, what if she doesn't?

In other words I'm basically an optimist.

Just keep in mind that wishing it will work, rarely leads to success.

Realistically though, if she was happy with the marriage, I don't think even once or twice a year would be a problem for her.

No, you should assume that she is serious and take her at her word.

[BillyB]

Canadaman, your sense of urgency of getting married may be a turn off. Regardless of your lady's personality, no woman desires a desperate man. She has you by the balls. She told your all of her concerns about costs of her daughters education and will want to take 4-5 trips back home every year. You agreed to accept the financial responsibility. I'm not sure she appreciates your generosity yet and I hope for your sake she doesn't come to you with more issues that is solved with money.

You told her what you will do to make a relationship work with her. What has she told you that she will do to make a relationship work with you?

You've asked her for marriage and you've gotten your answer. Maybe time will change things, maybe not. You say you are 54 and time is not on your side so you better make a good decision on this woman whether to hold or fold and begin searching for another. Although she didn't say she will marry you, did she tell you that you are the only man in her life she's commited to at this time? If not, start communicating with other women in case this doesn't materialize.

[ECOCKS]

To each their own, good luck.

[JR]

Good question!
I can't give a really good answer other than: I'm strongly attracted to her (spelled hard on and thinking with the little brain), know we have quite a few things in common and think/hope that she will calm down about her worries after a while. (Nope, one worry will replace another)
In other words I'm basically an optimist. (Blind)

She also asked if she could visit her family 4-5 times a year and I said sure if you want to.
Realistically though, if she was happy with the marriage, I don't think even once or twice a year would be a problem for her. (Stop thinking for her)

Why do you insist on rushing into a bad marriage?  You're gettin on in your years, so what? Better to stay single a little while longer than to get married becuase you feel you are running out of time.

Let me see now, you ask "Will you marry me?" and she responds with "I'll let you know how much the university costs when I get home."

Picture this: You're standing at the station. Now look down the tracks...do you see it? Your train wreck is about to arrive.

[CanadaMan]

You told her what you will do to make a relationship work with her. What has she told you that she will do to make a relationship work with you?

Good question. I have only told her about financial help that I would give her because that was her main concern.
I didn’t talk about other types of support that we take for granted.
She hasn’t told me what she would do to make the relationship work.
She did say that it takes time to get to know a person’s likes, dislikes, living habits etc.
She has 20 years experience living with her previous husband, so she should know all about these things.
In other words, like most here giving advice, she doesn't want to rush into things too quickly. She told me several times not to hurry.

Although she didn't say she will marry you, did she tell you that you are the only man in her life she's commited to at this time? If not, start communicating with other women in case this doesn't materialize.

No she did not. I’m going by sixth sense/gut here. She made it a point to introduce me to her friends, two daughters, brother and his wife etc. when I was in Russia.
Maybe she does the same with all her boyfriends?

[CanadaMan]

Picture this: You're standing at the station. Now look down the tracks...do you see it? Your train wreck is about to arrive.

Hey Joe I hear ya' loud and clear.
My Dad thinks her preference to take things slower is actually a good sign.
That if she had jumped on my offer right away it would have come off as looking like she was just in it for the quick ride.

So there are many ways to look at this at the moment.

As far as train wreck is concerned...

If I were a betting man I'd put my money on my GF over
your "lady in Pitr." who you had 22 emails with, anyday. 

Seriously though. I know the guys here must out-number the women by at least 10-1
but I'd still like to hear from some women on this to get their perspective.

I AM KEEPING AN OPEN MIND ABOUT THIS. THAT'S WHY I'M WRITING ABOUT THIS HERE.
I'M ALSO GOING TO MONITOR MY GF'S RESPONSES VERY CAREFULLY IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS.

So you get a better sense of who I am seeing I am going to copy two of her e-mails that she sent to me as I was returning home from my trip to Russia.
They were sent soon after I left and I hadn't arrived home yet.
The second e-mail was sent just over an hour after the first one:
(I was still sick with my cold when I left Russia)
(We had talked about meeting soon in a warm place for a vacation)


Subject: miss to you

<3 Hi 'CM'! How you? I very much worry about you. You had very difficult flight.how you of now feel? My relatives and friends too worry.write as your health? What think your relatives and friends speak about me? What do you think of our future? I very much hope that our relations will be good. You only have left yesterday, and I already miss and I think of our fast meeting somewhere in warm place.I am very much it would would be desirable to meet for New Year's holidays, if you want it and, if it is not difficult for you. I think what to meet in the visa-free country much easier and more cheaply. For inhabitants Rossie visa-free countries Tunisie, Egipt,Tailand, Cuba, Dominicanskay respublic.Now in all these countries warmly and very romantically for meetings in love with each other. I very much wait you anser.Embrace.Kissis.


Subject: seriosy

Dear 'CM'! I very much worry that you think of our meeting. How much serious there was our
conversation for you? I am adjusted very much serios.Kiss!

[UTRO]

Thanks for your Frankness Rick.
I'm sure she inroduced you to her close family and friends because she liked you and trusted you.

[KenC]

Canadaman,
Sounds like a straight forward business deal to me.  If you're cool with a loveless marriage, then good luck and God bless.  Just don't ever kid yourself into thinking it has any emotional basis what so ever.
KenC

[Boethius]

I haven't followed all of CanadaMan's story, but I'd disagree about the business arrangement, Ken.  To me, it sounds like a woman who has had to rely on herself.  She sounds practical.  She is a mother, and at this point, is putting her child ahead of herself and a potential mate.  She needs to know that, no matter what, she will be able to ensure her daughter's educational ambitions are achieved.

[KenC]

I haven't followed all of CanadaMan's story, but I'd disagree about the business arrangement, Ken.  To me, it sounds like a woman who has had to rely on herself.  She sounds practical.  She is a mother, and at this point, is putting her child ahead of herself and a potential mate.  She needs to know that, no matter what, she will be able to ensure her daughter's educational ambitions are achieved.

Boethius,
Well, it sure ain't love.
KenC

[Boethius]

It is too soon for love, I think. 

[Jumper]

I havn't caught the whole story,just this thread.

if i leave the thread title off and replace it
with
canadman ,feeling pressured by age and time running out, asks RW to marry him before he is ready, or she is ready..

this is what i get-
granted its just my take ,and could be WAY off!

With the given time frame ,and mature RW,
she thinks it is way to soon to say *yes*, or to even have a proposal.
 she isn't this type of personality ,she is cautious ,calculating and needs time for emotions to not only be built ,
but be actualized and reflected on to see if they are "real"
 she isnt going to say "no" and run you away,,as she has hopes for the relationship to build,
as she either likes you , or is being practical and pragmatic in thoughts of her childs future


As far as the thread title ,if its accurate,
 then it changes things a lot.

Shes either acting that way because she feels rushed and pressured,
or shes acting that way because that's "who " she is.,.

was she like this before your "pressure?"

if you called and told her after some deep refelection,
that you feel that you guys are a good match , but also feel you both should take it more slowly..
would she act differently? be more happy?

only you know..

Honestly i think you introduced alot of pressure on yourself ,on her ,
and on a situation thats already typically loaded with a lot of extenuating pressures and circumstances.

its very hard to put the genie back in the bottle.
and in my mind you've forced her way too soon
so she feels the need to be VERY pragmatic,.,
and to decide on a practical  marriage "with hope" like you have that it might work out or become more.


my kopeks worth..

[Doll]

“When I return to Russia I will ask my friend how much the tuition fees will be and then let you know”.

Tuition where, CM?

[Doll]

Ah, I see- her daughter's tuition in Russia.
What did she say? "Write   to me"? Then write to her, see what she is thinking about.

[GQBlues]

   
How to court an aloof, temperamental and capricious Russian woman?

Hmmm Those are not every promising qualities for a partner to marry. So I was wondering -why?-

Then you said...

I have never married before!....I have three brothers who I admit have influenced me in this regard recently......
My older brother married for the first time just four years ago. One of my younger half-brothers just got married this past October, he’s 37. My other half-brother is busy cementing his relationship with his GF with a second child who is expected to be born in a few months. They’ll probably marry in the not-too-distant future.

I am retired. I have a lot of time on my hands as a result.  <snip>

...and wondered no more.

[Gator]

if i leave the thread title off and replace it
with
canadman ,feeling pressured by age and time running out, asks RW to marry him before he is ready, or she is ready..

Tap, tap, tap...that's the sound of the hammer hitting the nail on the head.

Did this woman give you Canadaman some mind blowing sex?  Did you date only this woman and have nothing to compare?  Something is making you ignore some sources of future contention.  It must be giving you some doubts or otherwise you would never describe her as such.  Think about that.

[CanadaMan]

With the given time frame ,and mature RW,
she thinks it is way to soon to say *yes*, or to even have a proposal.
 she isn't this type of personality ,she is cautious ,calculating and needs time for emotions to not only be built ,
but be actualized and reflected on to see if they are "real"
 she isnt going to say "no" and run you away,,as she has hopes for the relationship to build,
as she either likes you , or is being practical and pragmatic in thoughts of her childs future

Yup AJ, this is my take too. And it was simply with this backdrop that I was asking "What next?" in my 'Scammers' thread and here too.

When we were in Russia together, and talking about the big picture just before I left, I was thinking ("very soon") in my head and obviously she was thinking more ("long term") in hers.
It was something we didn't discuss and I was simply assuming we were on the same wavelength with it. Hence the quick follow-up trip exactly one month later for our next meeting. If I didn't feel a closeness in her e-mails and particularly our phone conversations, I wouldn't have proposed to her.

As far as the thread title ,if its accurate,
 then it changes things a lot.

Shes either acting that way because she feels rushed and pressured,
or shes acting that way because that's "who " she is.,.

was she like this before your "pressure?"

To be fair, she is much more aloof and capricious than temperamental, if that's any consolation.   She had no problems describing herself as whimsical, (which she also is)
but after I got to know her better, my description of her is more accurate.

Was she like this before the "pressure"?  Yes.

if you called and told her after some deep refelection,
that you feel that you guys are a good match , but also feel you both should take it more slowly..
would she act differently? be more happy?

only you know..

Good question. I honestly don't know.
What I do want to know (if I hear back from her soon) is what time-frame she has in mind for our relationship. I mean is it reasonable to date a Russian woman for 6-12 months given our situation and if so, how does one go about making sure (as best as possible) you aren't wasting your time?

Honestly i think you introduced alot of pressure on yourself ,on her ,
and on a situation thats already typically loaded with a lot of extenuating pressures and circumstances.

its very hard to put the genie back in the bottle.
and in my mind you've forced her way too soon
so she feels the need to be VERY pragmatic,.,
and to decide on a practical  marriage "with hope" like you have that it might work out or become more.


my kopeks worth..

I agree. I blew the first marriage proposal of my life.
Hey, maybe I'll get the second one right? 

[CanadaMan]

I'm trying to give you folks the big picture here with the important details, but of course I can't give you all of them for it would take far too long.

... What did she say? "Write   to me"? Then write to her, see what she is thinking about.

Not so simple. Her saying write to me caused me to step back immediately and say "Whoa..." to myself.
Why?
Because our primary mode of communication for the last two months has been by telephone.
I would call her almost daily at a set time. She would almost always answer the phone at this time and we would talk for about 20-30 minutes.

Why would she say to write then? I might simply be paranoid and reading too much into it but it seemed very strange to me when she said it.

[CanadaMan]

Did this woman give you Canadaman some mind blowing sex?  Did you date only this woman and have nothing to compare? 

Not mind blowing sex but you're thinking in the right direction though.
I have dated quite a few women in my time.

Something is making you ignore some sources of future contention.  It must be giving you some doubts or otherwise you would never describe her as such.  Think about that.

Gator I value your opinions here on this site. That's because you are usually right on the money.
I would put it differently.

Would I rather my wife not be aloof and capricious? Sure!
Over the years, I have been quite picky with the women I have dated.
I could have 'settled' with many of them. But I chose not to.

More recently I decided to make an effort to not be as picky as I once was.
After all, Lord knows I have my share of character faults too.

So yes, I am willing to 'overlook' these traits as a trade-off for the traits that I do like.