new and lots to read

[MattyB4]

Hi everyone,

I am new to this site, I have been using Anastasia for a long time to find a lady, and have spent more money then i care to remember. The reason i use a pay site rather then one of the free ones, is that i think i am more likely to find a lady whom is serious about meeting, on a site where they know that a man has to pay to access. Although i have had plenty of correspondance, i have not yet met any of the ladies i have spoken to, partially because using a translated mail service takes time (anastasia tends to have a 24 hour delay between you sending a letter, and it being delivered to the lady's profile) and also because in my humble opinion, writing letters is very impersonal, and unless you press the issue of meeting, and feed the conversation with constant questions, it doesnt take long before you end up paying money to read a letter asking you about the weather.

Perhaps, the fault of my correspondance failures lies solely with myself for perhaps being too subtle, i have in the past exchanged letters with a lady for over 6 months, after which i brought up the topic of meeting, and was told that she did not feel ready, (i should mention that we were writing at least 2 letters a week)
Ironically, since i have started using Anastasia's "Live Chat" service, i have had much more success and after only a couple of conversations (albeit lengthy ones, and i might add expensive) have been invited to meet.

I speak No russian, and can barely fathom the russian alphabet, but i am trying very hard to learn, as i think ignorance is one of the biggest flaws any man can have, and not trying to even attempt to learn the language of your future wife/girlfriend is pretty far along the ignorance scale.

I will be flying to Odessa, and from there, Anastasia has arranged a transfer to the apartment i rented for the 3 days i will be there, in Kherson. and have provided an interpreter, which i paid 5 hours in advance, and the rest of the time is negotiable.

Anyway, i am looking forward to visiting Ukraine, and of course meeting the lady. So i have been trawling the internet for guides on customs, culture and social etiquette.

This site seems to have a lot of information that i will find useful, but in honesty there seems to be (as there is on every forum i have ever visited) a lot of pointless trolling, bumping, name calling and arguing on what is supposed to be a useful information resource and discussion. In order to get the information i am looking for, i feel it would be easier to just ask my questions at the risk of repeating questions of other people, and will no doubt get flamed for not searching the forum, but to be honest, its only the flamers and trolls who have the time to spend all day searching.

The guidelines mention greed often, FSU women dont like it etc etc, which to me is pretty normal, but the "Definition" of greed that i interpret from the guide is that FSUW consider it greedy for a man not to spend a lot of money on them. Is this correct, or have i misread something?

The Guide mentions sex, and the practise of safe sex numerous times, and yet other posts give the impression that FSUW are very repressed. Now i am not interested in flying all the way to Ukraine just to get my leg over, i am looking for love, but IF i do decide to try and initiate intimacy, am i breaking some social protocol? i know of course, that it will depend greatly on the lady herself, but i am only there from friday afternoon until monday morning and i dont want to make a bad impression.

From the discussions with the lady herself, she says she is affectionate, which seems to contradict some of the information i have seen here, that indicates that FSUW are mostly not affectionate at all, and tend not to like public displays of affection such as holding hands. I am not sure which to believe as most of the women i have written to, seem to be quite happy with the idea of holding hands and kissing

THe lady i am visiting has told me that she wished me to meet her parents while i am there, i am not sure of the specifics of the meeting, if it be for a meal or just a fleeting visit, or (god forbid) that she wants me to spend my whole time there, but is it normal for a girl to want a man she has never met before to meet her parents so soon?

Being British, and just about old enough to remember the days when a man was a Gentleman, things like standing for a lady, pulling out chairs, opening doors and paying for everything are pretty much second nature to me anyway, However it has to be said i am a fan of dressing casually, jeans and a smart t-shirt usually being my outfit of choice, but of course i will make an effort. Some of the posts i have read seem to paint an unfavourable picture of FSUW in that they make it sound like FSUW are very materialistic and basically judge you for how you dress and how flash with the cash you are. I hope that this is just the conjecture of some more negative individuals, as although i may have money, even i must have a budget.

I have never used an interpreter before and because the lady speaks almost no english, and i basically speak no russian, i will need to use the terp a lot. I have no idea of what this will be like. Obviously the interpreter will be with us most of the time, but when i take the lady to eat at a restaraunt, am i going to have to buy the terp a meal too? and what happens if the lady and i wish to get intimate? obviously the terp wont be there when it happens but i can imagine pillow talk and the morning after conversations being... interesting.

If anyone is still reading at this point, you can probably tell i am a little worried about my trip, mostly because its completely new to me, and also because i really like this lady and dont want to make things uncomfortable for her, and i certainly dont want to make a bad impression.

Any tips or answers to my questions will be greatly appreciated.

Matty

[ECOCKS]

The guidelines mention greed often, FSU women dont like it etc etc, which to me is pretty normal, but the "Definition" of greed that i interpret from the guide is that FSUW consider it greedy for a man not to spend a lot of money on them. Is this correct, or have i misread something?

Basically, greedy is used to mean cheap, stingy or frugal to a fault.

The Guide mentions sex, and the practise of safe sex numerous times, and yet other posts give the impression that FSUW are very repressed. Now i am not interested in flying all the way to Ukraine just to get my leg over, i am looking for love, but IF i do decide to try and initiate intimacy, am i breaking some social protocol? i know of course, that it will depend greatly on the lady herself, but i am only there from friday afternoon until monday morning and i dont want to make a bad impression.

Normal women, trust your instincts. Don't let their fashion sense make you think they're sluts ot cocktail whores, FSU Women take pride in their assets and dress to accent their figures.

From the discussions with the lady herself, she says she is affectionate, which seems to contradict some of the information i have seen here, that indicates that FSUW are mostly not affectionate at all, and tend not to like public displays of affection such as holding hands. I am not sure which to believe as most of the women i have written to, seem to be quite happy with the idea of holding hands and kissing

Don't know why you have this impression. Most of us (I thought) agree that if they're into you they will make a normal progression to affection. Again, trust your instincts and control yourself to keep from leaping across the table . Respect is a universal constant.

THe lady i am visiting has told me that she wished me to meet her parents while i am there, i am not sure of the specifics of the meeting, if it be for a meal or just a fleeting visit, or (god forbid) that she wants me to spend my whole time there, but is it normal for a girl to want a man she has never met before to meet her parents so soon?

I have never used an interpreter before and because the lady speaks almost no english, and i basically speak no russian, i will need to use the terp a lot. I have no idea of what this will be like. Obviously the interpreter will be with us most of the time, but when i take the lady to eat at a restaraunt, am i going to have to buy the terp a meal too? and what happens if the lady and i wish to get intimate? obviously the terp wont be there when it happens but i can imagine pillow talk and the morning after conversations being... interesting.

You should trust your gentlemanly instincts and treat her like she can expect to be treated in the future. As for the terp, I would offer to buy her a meal but that may just be me, I don't know what custom or tradition is but that seems right. As for pillow talk, maybe you should just let that play out.

Enjoy your adventure!

[MattyB4]

Thanks for the tips, Yes i was thinking that buying (or at least offering) the terp a meal would be polite.

I hope i will have a good time, Anastasia are sending a driver to pick me up from Odessa to take me to Kherson, provided me with a terp, and the apartment looks ok, but then most places do over the internet.

I have been scanning the forum reading a LOT of negative feedback about anastasia, most of which is over 5 years old, in fact there are a large amount of people who claim they are scammers. Which is always nice to hear after you book flights, acommodation and so on, specifically to meet an anastasia girl. I have at least chatted to this lady on Live Chat with her web cam active so i know that i was at least talking to the right person. As for how genuine she is, that will be the adventure. I have a habit of doing impulsive stuff, so this for me is just another day at the office, and i guess a lot of people would call me mad for flying to the ukraine to meet a girl that i chatted to a few times. I just think that some women are as lonely as i am, and put as much value into actually meeting as i do.

Does anyone have any recent experience with anastasia? by which i mean someone who has used it recently not someone who used it 10 years ago and wants to "re-itterate" their out of date opinion

[ECOCKS]

Feel free to jump into chat if you're of a mind to. It's up top on the blue bar over to the right a bit.

[Shadow]

First of all, Anastasia does have a bad reputation, and has earned it.

If you read around than you will find that if you write to a woman for 6 months and she is ' not ready'  for a meeting, the general opinion is that you have been writing to someone who gets paid to keep you spending money on credits.

As for your current trip, I hope everything works out but remember some things:
- you are not obliged to buy her *anything* in exchange for meeting her, kissing or more intimate behaviour.
- If the 'taxi driver' is the same guy every day but not supposed to be from the agency, he is sharing his money with the woman/interpreter.
- meeting friends and parent should been given more importance than seeing the sites and dining at expensive restaurants. You are getting to know a person, not to get a pretty tour guide.
- if RW are in to you, there will be no doubt in your mind. Intimacy will depend on the situation and time, but do not rule it out.
- There is no such thing as different cultural behavour. If she acts like a biatch in your eyes, its not culture, its because she is.

[MattyB4]

Thanks for the sound advice. From what i have gathered  so far the Biatch problem shouldnt be an issue.

Back when i was in the Navy, i travelled to a lot of interesting places and have in that time grown wise to most of the Con's and rip offs going. Especially ones which have already been mentioned.

The Break down: the taxi suddenly suffers from a catastrophic failure in the middle of nowhere which the driver cannot afford to fix and tries to convince you to pay for a tow or small repair job (usually from a business partner of the driver who arrives remarkably quickly on the scene)

Solution: dont get into a taxi that looks unusual, if the taxi wanders off a desired route, or seems to be taking a longer time then it should ask the driver to rectify this. If you find yourself driving through desolate places when you should be going point to point in the same city, raise your concerns. Never get in a taxi without having a cell phone, and the number of an alternative taxi firm, if the car "breaks down" pay the fare to the point you have reached and walk away.

The tourguide's assistant: You pay for a guided tour of a city or place, shortly after the tour begins, "friends" of the tourguide show up and start "helping" to guide you around, after which they demand payment.

Solution: trust only recommended tour guides, preferably recommended by the hotel, and get a reciept. If someone turns up and tries to "help" inform them that you have allready paid for the tour and that you have not taken your wallet with you. 9/10 times you will find that this extra help soon dissapears.

The "i love you": many countries have legalised prostitution, and even countries which dont, you will still find them almost anywhere that would attract tourists. If you find one particular girl hangs around a lot, and is more forward then you are accustomed to, odds are she is on the make. In a lot of countries they will even be allowed access to the bars, to the extent that they are allowed to serve drinks. If a girl offers to go to the bar and get your drink, odds are she will overcharge you or skim small amounts out of the change. When it is time for you to leave she will become clingy, tell you she loves you, and at some point will tell you how hungry she is and that she needs money for food.

Solution: Hard to judge as they will not introduce themselves as prostitutes in a lot of cases. The Bar scam that i menioned is generally only in Africa altho i have no doubt it is done elsewhere. IF a girl seems into you, dont over judge it, they may genuinely just be a girl who likes you. Best way to work it out is, if they ask for anything, offer to get your drink for you, seem a little too forward or confident, tell you sob stories about how hard her life is and emphasize the need for money or Casually mentions that she has no STD's. The easiest way to get rid of them if you are suspicious, is to just tell them that you arent interested, this will not always get rid of them immediately, sometimes you will find they start trying to guilt trip you with "you dont find me attractive?" "i really like you" and "i need the money to feed my baby who has leukemia" or similar things, be firm and stand your ground

The "I love your clothes": this is a classic pick pocket move. You will be approached by a local who is friendly, there may be more then one, all very nice and keen to shake your hand, they will astart admiring your clothes and complimenting them, at some point the will try to either pat, or pinch your trousers around where your pockets are, in an attempt to figure out where your money is. they will then proceed to try to get you to move your hands away from your pockets by shaking your hand, taking you by the arm to assist you out of the path of someone walking along, any excuse to get your hands out of the way, before you can blink, someone has grabbed your money out of your pocket and run away, often down a dark alley or in the direction that your "new friends" can block should you try to chase them.

Solution: as unfashionable as it is, wear a cash belt, if you really dont want to, or cant, put your money somewhere that they cannot easily snatch it. If someone seems overly friendly, stay aware of your surroundings and avoid being touched. If a normal person tries to touch you and you avoid it, they will not make an issue about it and will apologise so do not be affraid to make it obvious you are avoiding them. if you do have money in your pockets, dont take your hands out of them no matter how much they try to get you to. Wasterners tend to gesticulate when we talk and most pick pockets will attempt to use this to their advantage so you must be mindful of your actions. it only takes a split second to reach into a pocket and remove the contents, and some pick pockets are so skillful that you wont even notice.

The lost child: some scammers have no shame, they will train thier children at a very early age. If you encounter a "lost" child and cannot bring yourself to shoo them away, do not under any circumstances follow them. find the nearest official, or take them to the police station. If they are genuinely lost, the police will deal with it. If they are not lost and just trying to get you to follow them, they will suddenly remember where their parents are before you reach the station. IF (god forbid) you do follow them, you will either find yourself in a back alley being mugged or pick pocketed, or you will find yourself talking to a parent trying to convince you they need money to feed the kids.
When i was in africa, a woman even tried to give me her baby i excange for some money.

In a lot of countries and tourist spots, you will find there are strict regulations in place to ensure that visitors are protected, as tourism is a large part of the economy, particularly in the Carribean and smaller provinces that are mainly run by expats. So you will tend to find less people begging, and more people selling useless items. One of the biggest reasons for tourists being conned or relieved of their money, is the western worlds "Big heart" if anyone seems to be trying to make you feel bad for them, chances are they are trying to rip you off.

My travelling tips:  Never wander anywhere alone. Always use reputable companies for tours and activities, unless you are with someone you know you can trust, and they have recommended it. Leave your valuable belongings at the hotel in a safe deposit, and ask for a reciept or a record of the contents. Your biggest friend on any trip, is the hotel, they are liable for any loss that occurs and so will (most of the time) be very hapy to put your valuables in a safe. Never keep your cash and your credit card in the same place. If you loose both, you are stuck. Always make yourself familiar with your surroundings, it is advisable to know where the police station, and hospital are. If you need a taxi, make sure that you discuss the fare with the driver before you even open the door and if it seems too much, get a different one, you cant always trust taxi drivers even from reputable companies but if they see you walking off, then they will usually agree to a fare that seems more reasonable. Do not touch anything that doesnt belong to you unless you are in a shop, even if the owner tries to give it to you.
If you are not fluent in the native language, either travel with someone who is, find an interpreter, or make 100% sure that you are understood when asking for something, particularly in small bars and restaraunts. Do not do anything that draws attention to yourself, no matter how safe you feel. If you require assistance, try to locate someone official, a person in a uniform, even if its a train driver or road sweeper, is much less likely to scam you as they can be identified much easier. If you have been robbed or mugged, and are able to move, get away from the location as fast as possible, remembering where you are, an injured or distressed tourist is like a lightning rod for more trouble, if you have been beaten up and hang around, odds are more trouble will not be far away, head straight for the police station if you are badly hurt, then go to the hospital and they will contact the police for you.
It is common for locals such as gaurds to carry weapons. That doesnt mean they are trained to use them, i have seen a security gaurd scratcing his nose with the end of his pistol, which, anyone who knows about firearms will tell you, even when the safety is on, you never do. Anyone trained in the use of fire arms will keep them holstered until they need to use them. If you see someone being careless with a pistol or rifle, be somewhere else.
In a lot of places, you can be pick pocketed right in front of a policeman, or other official, and they will either not see, or not care. Remember YOU are the foreigner and unless you make a fuss, they will usually try to avoid having anything to do with the situation, dealing with a tourist that doesnt (as far as they know) speak their own language, is more hassle then they want.
Never discuss politics or religeon with a stranger, and if they ask your opinion, do your best to appear indifferent, or neutral.

These are just the things i learned during my travels.

[MattyB4]

Just wanted to say thanks for the feedback, positive and negative (mostly negative )

ive taken steps to reduce the risk of being ripped off. Although i still have the services from AI that i had already paid for, and will use instead of wasting the money, i have emailed kevin at khersongirls, explaining my situation, and he has given me his contact details, and checked the girl i am visiting to see if there is any record of her being a scammer. So far ive not heard anything back on that subject, so i can still hope that she at least is genuine.  i have also asked him if any of his terps are free at the weekend for me to hire, so that they can keep an eye out for both me and my lady and nudge me in the right direction if anything starts looking ropey.

A lot of things have been said in the last two days both by me and to me, anything negative or unpleasant i may have said, i apologise for, but you must understand that spending hours making me feel like a dumbass is a good way to get yourself insulted.

i know that there are an inumerate number of bad reports about AI and i am quite ready to believe that they are scm artists, which is why i have now leaned on Kevin, to reduce my dealings with AI as much as possible. That doesnt however mean that the girl herself is a scammer. Im not ruling out the possibility but i will list my reasons for thinking she may be genuine below. apologies if i have not metioned all of this to people i chatted to but a lot of people were asking or telling me a lot of things

1. she is clearly at home when she chats to me, as i can visibly see on her cam
2. she never atempts to elongate the conversation and most of the time it is her who has to leave first, 9 times out of 10 after only half an hour to an hour
3. unlike other girls whom ive chatted to, Olga is not (or at least does not appear to be) juggling me with other conversations,
4. she never appears online before or after she chats to me, and never gives the "oh did you try to talk to me? i was away from my computer and didnt see" excuse
5. she wanted to meet me almost right away, and asked me to visit after maybe 2 conversations
6. she has only emailed me using anastasia's mail service once, and that was at my request
7. she invited me to meet her parents, which although it doesnt sound like evidence to suggest she isnt a scammer, it also doesnt seem like the sort of thing a scammer would particularly want to do, mainy because it would mean i had her home address.

i know that some individuals are so utterly convinced that every single detail of my trip is a scam, and will refuse to see that based on this evidence there is still a fair chance that she herself is genuine and might be interested. And those people will no doubt have a million answers and reasons why she is a scammer.
But when all is said and done, its too late for that, no amount of flaming or wailing about what other people said about this, that and the other, is going to change the fact that ive already paid. So im going, if the girl turns out to be a scam artist, fair enough, lesson learned, let the "i told you so"'s begin, if she turns out to be a peach, i know that nobody will change their opinion, ill just get, "well you were lucky" or words to that effect, i can admit i am wrong when proven, can anyone else?

the only day that im at any major risk is the day i arrive, as thats the day ill be using the interpreter from AI, after that ill be using one of Khersongirls terps and will have someone watching my back. If when i say i dont want to spend hours shopping, or dont want to eat at the most expensive restaraunt, the girl loses interest, then so be it, plenty more fish in the sea, ill go fishing while im there. Im not the type of person to run away from a problem, nor am i the type of person to not try something just because someone else says not to. You can throw all the evidence of AI being scammers, that you want. Odds are ive read it all in the last two days. But you cant deny the simple irrefutable truth, There are success stories from AI too, even amongst the members of this forum. As i told some people before, i had a GF once who was killed by a drunk driver on her way to work, and that sort of thing happens all the time. Doesnt mean im never going to cross the road again.

There are always going to be people who harp on, sounding like some conspiracy theorist or fanboy saying "you gonna get an education" or simply refusing to accept that there is a possibility, however small that i might actually have a good time

odds are my next forum post, will be a status update either on my return, or while i am out there, unless of course someone has something constructive to say or ask. I would like to be that scynical about life, but frankly i like baing happy and enjoy life too much to live in a paranoid state of mind for more then a few hours.

P.S expect much gloating if i am successful

[Shadow]

Matty as said, trust your instincts. They are more important as what anyone tells you, including terps from competing agencies.

[MattyB4]

this thread is rapidly turning into my own RWD blog,

that in mind here is a sitrep

Anastasia finally contacted me with the ladies contact details, after i failed to connect to the video chat this afternoon (their fault not mine) i made a real fuss about it, text messaging my anastasia rep in kherson, and emailing them threatening all out war if they didnt fix the problem and get me her details.
whilst i was still in crisis mode i spoke to Igor, on msn and explained my situation to him, and he said that i could contact him if i needed help whilst there, and even said he was in crimea but would travel back to help me.

once i got the details from Anastasia, and after some prompting from some other forumites i called Olya to check it was her and im 98% sure that it was her, i also sent a text to her interpreter friend. Before anyone screams alarm bells at me, i know that a lot of "interpreter friends" are scams or at least will overcharge me, i wont be hiring her, im going to hire one of kevins terps.
It might end up as a situation of her "friend" turning up to meet, but i am prepared to tell her that she wont be getting paid for it.

next sitrep will either be when i get back or while im out there. its anyones guess

[MattyB4]

OK sitrep number 2

Im in Kherson, got to th apartment at about 10pm. Vladimir the driver as a great guy, his english was a little rusty but as i kept talking to him he seemed to remember more and more. He bought me coffee, paid for me to use a public toilet and even let me use his cell phone. He kept me amused during the nigmare traffic am that we were stuck in at Nikolaev which turned our 3 hour drive into a 7.5 hour drive. It was actually quite funny, as traffic stood completel still for over an hour, and people were just got out of their cars and started chatting in the road. I couldnt understand them of course but they all seemed to be ust making the most of it.

When i got to the apartment, at first i was worried, as the area looked a little rough, i.e graphiti on a wall nearby etc etc. But once i got inside i was pleasantly surprised. Its Clean, well decorated and has just about everything that i could possibly need and more. Valeria was waiting for me there, and had been since about an hour before my original arrival time (17:30) and hse also had a man waiting with her to help me set up m internet connection. She told me briefly about the area, she didnt stick around too long as she could clearly see i was exhausted.

I know that its far too early to make any judgements, but so far, anastasia have given me everything i paid for, (with regards to driver, apartment and terp) obviously im not going to drop my guard, i will still be wary of Valeria, and of course when i meet her this morning, Olya.

[MattyB4]

day 3 sitrep

After going to buy a cheap cell phone for Ukr use, valeria (my terp) took me to John Howard's pub, which those not familiar with kherson, is an irish pub. The food was ok, although the menu, even though it was in english was a little hard to understand. th beer was reasonale also. after this we recieved a call from Olga (the girl i came to Ukraine to meet) asking us to meet her and her "friend" in a sushi restaraunt

ALARM BELLS!!!

i asked Valeria if the place Olga had mntioned was expensive or if it was fairly priced, she told me the average meal would cost about 100 grizna per person. Which is much less then i had been led to believe by people. We went there and sure enough Olga was there with her friend, and the meals were indeed about 100 per person. so i figured everything is ok at this point. Olga chatted away, i was admittedly a little quiet, mainly because i was meeting a very pretty lady and have never been in a situation efore where i had to talk through someone else.

so we chatted and after a couple of hours they left, having spent not very much at all, the whole meal came to about 350 grizna

after they left i chatted to Valeria about everything that was going on, she could see i was a little concerned. She agreed that it was unusual that this "friend" wanted to get paid for interpreting when her supposed close friend was meeting a foreign man, and also strange that she would spend so little time with me, given the short duration of my trip. I made a point of telling the interpreter friend that if she wished to replace my interpreter from anastasia that i would call the agency and have my interpreter money transferred to her as i had already paid, there was no particularly visible reaction so maybe she was genuinely telling te truth about her agencies rules. in case i hadnt mentioned before i will quickly cover the entire situation with the friend

Olga's friend Elena, is an interpreter, and olga told me that she wished for me to hire her as my interpreter as she would like to have a friend present on first meeting. I told her that elena is welcome to come as a friend, but i already have a terp so i would not pay for elena to interpret as well. Elena contacted my interpreter and told her that her agency had rules that say all girls must be accomanied by one of the agencies own terps on first meeting. Valeria asked me what i wanted to do and i said that i would keep using her as my terp and elena would have to come as a friend. When we got to the sushi bar valeria and elena discussed this situation and valeria pointed out that I should not be having to deal with this hassle as i had put a lot of money and effort into coming and should only have to worry about mymeeting with olga and nothing else. THey reached a comprimise and said that Valeria would stay with me for saturday and elena would come as the interpreter on sunday.

after my discussion with valeria in the sushi restaraunt

Valeria asked me if i wanted to meet a friend of hers that spoke english, just so that i had something to do with my evening (it was only 3pm at this point)
I said ok that would be nice. so she called the girl Iliona asked if she was free and gave me the number for iliona.

When i got back to the apartment, i was still stewing over the situation with the interpreters, so i emailed anastasia, informing them of everything that had been said, and telling them that IF the local agency really had this rule about girls being accompanied, then i should have been informed by Anastasia about it before hand. I also chatted to a few other girls from kherson on AI and asked them about it too. Most of the girls seemed a little defensive about it. and half of them asked if i wanted to meet, and that they would bring their own interpreter *sigh*

at 6pm i called Iliona, and we met in the irish pub, she was very atttractive, and a genuinely nice girl, we stayed in the pub drinking and chatting until closing time, at which point i paid for her cab ride home and walked off, got a little lost and got back to my apartment at about 2am

this morning valeria called me, saying she had been called at 8pm last night by olga. The Basic content of the conversation was that OLga thought i was a little upset about her leaving so soon, and also that such a drama had been made about interpreters when as far as i was concerned it was already taken care of. ANd that she would be happy to meet me without elena and use Valeria instead.
It seems that even though i am very careful, and keeping my wits about me, sometimes i still get surprised. I was pretty convinced yesterday that olga and elena would try to fleece me today, and i was basically going to make an excuse not to go, and spend time either alone, or with iliona, if she was available. But given the new development, that i am now seeing olga and having valeria with me instead of elena, and thus putting the balance back in my favour i find myself again being optimistic about her intentions. Either that or the agency she is with got wind of my suspicions from me talking with other girls, or possibly even anastasia contacted them.
This one is most definately a "lets see where it goes" situation.

I will be meeting them in the irish pub at 11:30 unless they think of a more appropriate location, i did ask valeria to see if olga had any suggestions, or preferences, baring in mind i would like to at least try some ukrainian food, as long as it wasnt salo

stand by for further info.

[GregfromGa]

I'm still a little confused with the names of the girls and the terps but that's ok. Good trip report and keep them coming. It's not time to go shopping. Go eat yourself some borsht and pampushkas. I'm sure the Irish Pub is ok but you need to branch out a little and try some local fare at some little hole in the wall place. Now might be a good time to chat up some girls that are not with any agency. It's a numbers game. The more you talk to the more chances you have to meet one worth going back to see.

[Jooky]

Sorry to hear about all this. If you hit it off with Iliona, and she's interested, she'll make some time to see you. But, if you set up another date with Olga you've probably blown that chance (Iliona will know, if she's Valeria's friend, unless she's used to being the consolation date).

If it's not too late, I recommend you check out www.mamba.ru, www.dating.ru to hook up some normal dates or wander around and chat up some girls in the streets if you're comfortable with that. Set yourself free from this agency mess.

I don't see why you'd even bother with this girl Olga. You took the long trip just to see her for a weekend and she's not available for you on a Saturday night? Kick her to the curb. Adios.

[Shadow]

I have to agree with Jooky here. You are taking two/three days to meet her, and all you get is an hour or so at a sushi restaurant ?
If Olga would be interested in you, she would want to spend the maximum amount of time possible, now it seems that you are just a free lunch.

If things do not pick up with Olga, meet Iliona again and get her full attention.

[Faux Pas]

I have to agree with Jooky here. You are taking two/three days to meet her, and all you get is an hour or so at a sushi restaurant ?
If Olga would be interested in you, she would want to spend the maximum amount of time possible, now it seems that you are just a free lunch.

If things do not pick up with Olga, meet Iliona again and get her full attention.

More than a free lunch. It is also fleecing opportunities for her and her friend. Matty, forget Olga and her friend, your worst fears have come true, she is using you for a mark. She has no serious intentions or she wouldn't have put you in that predicament. If you see her again, it will only get worse

I would recommend you continue to use Valaria as you've already paid for her. Jooky's advice is solid. Get away from the agency and meet some ladies on the fly. Maybe a second date with IIlona. Olga is bad news dude. Remember, if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's likely a duck. Spend your money and your time salvaging your trip.

[GregfromGa]

Do this. The day your leaving or even today, it doesnt matter. Invite this Olga and her friend to a nice expensive place wherever they want. Tell them to meet you there. Of course you'll be running late but tell them to go ahead and order whatever they want. Of course you'll never show up.

[GregfromGa]

I also think you need to post the girl as a known scammer so if anyone wants to google her it will reflect so. Hope it works out with the other girl.

[MattyB4]

thanks for the tips guys,
of course there have been more developments since my post this morning.

Last night when i was talking to girls on AI trying to root out whether or not this agency did in fact have rules about the terps, one or more of the girls with whom i spoke, contacted Olga and told her i was trying to meet with them, and that i had been saying bad things about her. When i met with her this morning at a ukranian restaruant she had Elena with her, but she had said beforehand that valeria would be the paid terp, so elena was just there for moral support.
Having spent more time with olga i find myself in a bit of a odd position. She is very naive, and looks at the world through rose tinted glasses. She is completely unaware of the bad things that happen to people out in the big wide world, and therefore had great difficulty understanding why i was being so cautious. Valeria, talked to her at great length about what i was doing on AI last night talking to girls, and trying to explain to her that i wasnt trying to hook up another date, but was trying to find out about this problem with elena.
Im not 100% certain that she is convinced of me, as of course anyone would be more inclined to believe their girlfriends, then they would someone who is basicall a stranger. I will be writing to AI and informing them of these girls making up stories. doubtful that it would amount to anything but i am a little miffed that they lied about me asking to meet them. The closest i came to that was when one of these "friends" of olga asked me if i wanted to meet, i said maybe but i wasnt in a good mood, and then she told me she wanted to bring an interpreter called...Elena. I figured it was the same one and said no thanks. But im not sure that this constitutes me trying to hook up with her.

ANyway back to the meeting today, i have to admit i felt a little bad and also a little ambushed, because olga asked me why i had been trying to find other women in kherson, to which i replied that i was not trying to find other women, and that i was worried about this interpreter issue and was trying to find out if it was true or not. She seemed to be a little upset, but more surprised that i would suspect anything bad of her. After Valeria explained that a lot of men go to ukraine and get ripped off, and that i had spoken with Igor and many others who had warned me of both sushi restaraunts and also "friend" interpreters, and that everything that had happened on our first meeting was tuff i had been warned about, i think the penny dropped.
It is a shame that olga is so naive as it has led to some really awkward conversations, not to mention some awkward situations. I do now honestly think that she is a genuine girl, but is totally oblivious to the bad people involved in business in which she has become part of by signing up to meet a foreign man. i am possibly meeting her again this evening for a couple of hours, to have a meal and a drink. She could have been with me until 4pm this afternoon but she had to go sooner, and also i was pretty tired after getting lost last night and roaming the streets of Kherson until god knows what hour.

Ironically, 5 minutes before Olga had to leave, i had a text message from Iliona, saying she was in the center, so i told her i would be free in 10 minutes and once olga left i paid the bill and went to meet Iliona at the irish pub.
Many people will, at this point think that Iliona is interested, but im not so sure, Yes she did meet me a second time but it was only for one drink, and if she is interested, she is not making it very obvious. The conversation is still a little difficult (lots of long silences). I am more inclined to believe that she just feels bad that i have had so much time alone doing nothing in kherson and is trying to be nice by giving me company. Of course, i have never been any good at spotting when a woman likes me, when i was younger i missed out on more chances then i care to remember by being totally oblivious to a womans advances. I am about as subtle as a brick when i persue women.
Either way i gave iliona my email address so that she can stay in touch when im back home. SHe likes all the same stuff as me so we can send each other links.

just to mention also elena apologised to me for any misunderstanding that may have been caused by her presence, even though technically she didnt do anything wrong. She hasnt asked me for any money, and she seemed to understand my caution more then olga did when i tried to explain everything.

dont get me wrong here of course, i still have a healthy skepticism about olga, and wont be making any rash decisions, i very much expect that my opinion will be made for me when i return home. If i hear from her again, then perhaps all of this really was a misunderstanding, and if i dont, maybe she was a scammer, maybe i just managed to piss her off by being too suspicious. In hind sight, maybe i could have been a little more subtle when talking to the other girls from kherson on AI yesterday, but with any luck valeria's explanation of why i actually did it was good enough.
There is very much a lesson in this for everyone though. Just because AI has a bad rep with men, A lot of the "recommended" agencies have a bad rep with the girls. I wont mention who of course but one person who i was recommended to speak to, is disliked by many people in the business for being too far on the other side by which i mean that they look out for the men using the agency too much without thinking of the girls wellbeing.
So even though AI do have a bad reputation, and there are complaints everywhere about them, doesnt mean that everyone involved is a bad egg. Im pretty sure that one of the biggest reasons for people complaining about AI is that some men cant take rejection, and cry foul when actually the only person who hasnt done their part is themselves. Just look at the post on things that make women lose interest and you will wonder what kind of jack asses are going to FSU to find women.

Sooo where to go from here. Olga, the sweet and far too innocent one who (i think) likes me, and i will probably be seeing tonight. and Iliona the one who i have loads in common with and who (i think) isnt interested. Things are never simple, and many questions rattle around in this noggin of mine, such as how can olga not have realised that i was annoyed at only seeing her for 2 hours on saturday afternoon, after saying we would spend almost my whole time here together? What kind of bitch tells her "friend" that the man who has flown across europe to meet her, is trying to hook up with other women? am i being a dumb ass and not seeing signs that iliona likes me? 

this post has kind of wandered on a wierd tangent, so to tidy up the salient points.

I dont think olga is a scammer, and think that maybe she just didnt realise that everything she was doing was making me suspect something. I think maybe she had advice from other girls about what to do when meeting.
Elena seems not to be the money hungry terp that i had pegged her for at first. she has in fact been present on both meetings, which is still about 5 hours, and taken no money from me.
Iliona, as lovely as she is, doesnt appear interested.
I am a dumbass

Message ends..

[Faux Pas]

Olga, the sweet and far too innocent one who (i think) likes me, and i will probably be seeing tonight. and Iliona the one who i have loads in common with and who (i think) isnt interested. Things are never simple, and many questions rattle around in this noggin of mine, such as how can olga not have realised that i was annoyed at only seeing her for 2 hours on saturday afternoon, after saying we would spend almost my whole time here together? What kind of bitch tells her "friend" that the man who has flown across europe to meet her, is trying to hook up with other women? am i being a dumb ass and not seeing signs that iliona likes me?

Innocent? Unlikely, but just suppose that she is. She brought her friend to a free sushi meal and expecting to be paid for services. Is this the behavior of a girl with serious intentions of a relationship with dude who has traveled so far to meet her? She left you alone on your Saturday night. Matty I am afraid your are being played for big time chump. You've already rationalized her behavior as misunderstanding. It's not, it is plain rude. She is interested in your money. The sooner you realize this, the sooner you can get on with a productive trip.

From your limited description of IIlona, I'd say she's interested.

[Misha]

The reason i use a pay site rather then one of the free ones, is that i think i am more likely to find a lady whom is serious about meeting, on a site where they know that a man has to pay to access.

Why?!? I met my wife through a free Russian dating site. In my experience, a woman who is really serious about finding a husband, will look everywhere. She may have a profile on an agency site, she will invariably have a profile on a free Russian dating site, she will continue looking for prospects in her life around her....

...it doesnt take long before you end up paying money to read a letter asking you about the weather.

Isn't that the goal of this agency? To make you pay as much as possible?

The guidelines mention greed often, FSU women dont like it etc etc, which to me is pretty normal, but the "Definition" of greed that i interpret from the guide is that FSUW consider it greedy for a man not to spend a lot of money on them. Is this correct, or have i misread something?

If they are somehow implying that Russian women expect you to spend hundreds of dollars on a shopping trip with them after your first "date" then this is completely wrong.

Some of the posts i have read seem to paint an unfavourable picture of FSUW in that they make it sound like FSUW are very materialistic and basically judge you for how you dress and how flash with the cash you are. I hope that this is just the conjecture of some more negative individuals, as although i may have money, even i must have a budget.

It was not my experience. I did not spend much money courting my wife. However, given the site you are using, I am not sure whether you will be easily able to find sincere women who are interested in you as a man as opposed to your wallet.

[TheBlackCat]

My 2 cents, I think with Olga there are lots of explaining now as both have trust issues. Both are not 100 % sure of each others now. This means a big mountain to climb just to get back to "Can I believe her or him?" Is she worth it? She may but there are so many out there. I would cut my loss with her and take it as a learning experience.

Illona, who introduced her to you? Tell her how you feel about Illona. You seem interested but just can't figure if she also is. Tell your interpreter what you told us that you are simply blind about her intentions, being nice or truly wants to know more about you because of a true interest towards you.

I would look to hook up with another woman before leaving from one of the agency, meeting in the street or through your interpreter, whatever, depending on what would come out of Illona.

[Jooky]

Matty, Welcome to the ‘Dirty Barrel’ (as it’s been called). These girl’s aren’t naïve. They are playing you for a chump, maybe feeling a bit sorry for you because you’re younger and possibly a better catch than their usual chumps.

A few things to note:

That even the ‘reputable’ agencies have bad reputations in Russia / Ukraine is no surprise.

Valeria should not have been surprised at all about your short first date with Olga and the insistence of bringing her own interpreter. This is standard procedure and she knows it.

Olga didn’t need to be explained that lots of men come to Ukraine and get taken for a ride. If she pretended to be surprised at all this, she’s taking you for a fool.

It’s interesting that so many agency girls, who supposedly are actively seeking a usually English speaking foreigner, and who chat all the time via webcams, seem to require an interpreter. If they’re really planning to live abroad, wouldn’t they put some effort into learning English? If they actually paid attention to their chats, wouldn’t they pick up enough words to get by on a date? Now, if you meet women outside of agencies, women who aren’t specifically looking for a foreign man, it’s easy to find many that understand enough English to get along on a date without an interpreter. Strange eh?

You flew out specifically to meet this one girl, you still don’t know if you’ll be meeting her for dinner tonight, and are unsure if you’ll hear from her when you get back? Seriously cut this whole mess loose.

Let me describe a more real dating scenario.

Similar to your situation: I met a girl through a bridal site (not agency, bride.ru). She didn’t speak much English. We didn’t have much communication before meeting, just a few emails and short phone calls. My visit was only for two full days.

A bit different: I was traveling around Russia, visiting friends, meeting two other girls from the net and basically being a tourist, and she knew it. So it was more of a ‘let’s see’ meeting than a marriage minded introduction.

Here’s how it went.

I arrive at the airport at the ridiculous hour of 5 in the morning on a Tuesday. My date is waiting for me after being up all night. It’s -25 C and she’s been standing outside in the freezing cold waiting for my arrival. Two of her friends are there as well, and they greet me with a bottle of champagne and some chocolate that we enjoy, shivering, before we pile into a taxi that’s waiting for us.

My new friends take me to breakfast and insist on paying. I insist on paying for the full taxi ride, but the taxi driver doesn’t have change… and refuses a tip. He drives out of his way so I can get change to pay him the correct fare. One of the friends speaks English well and is acting as interpreter, of course at no charge.

We drop off the friends and head to a hotel that my date had lined up for me. The interpreting friend offered to stick around, but my date said she felt comfortable that we could understand each other well enough without her. She then spends the entire day hanging out with me and showing me her city.  In the evening, she tells me she wants to show me where she works, so we wander down a dark alley and into a dark building. Her boss and a few of her co-workers and friends are there to surprise me and greet me with all kinds of vodka and Russian snacks. We end up talking, drinking and having a great time until 6 in the morning.

We both head back to the hotel and crash (separate beds). The next day, my date has taken off work. Her friends invite us over, but we’re both a bit hung over and exhausted, so we take it easy. My date prefers that we go have a quiet dinner in a private booth at her favorite restaurant instead.  That second day she leaves only for a few hours, to go home and change. She comes back with small gifts for myself and my Mama. Her friends stop by later to drop off some chocolates for me as well. My date stays with me until the moment I board the plane to the next destination.

What’s the point of all this? This is the type of hospitality I’ve come to expect in Russia and what you can expect from a normal meeting with a sincere girl. Do you see the huge difference between this and the agency runaround that you’ve been dealing with this weekend?

Matty, you haven’t said anything about the chemistry with the girls you met (if there was any) or what interests you about them (if anything besides their looks). It seems like you’re leaving all the decisions up to these girls. You’re letting a bunch of young girls string you along, toying with you all weekend at your own expense.

Seriously, if you’re really looking for a wife in the FSU, I recommend you try a different approach and you’ll see the world of difference when you meet a girl that’s for real.

[Ravens9273]

Matty

Your being taken for a ride. Olga is not naive. She knows what she is doing.
When a RW/UW is into you, you will know it. If she was serious about finding a foreign Man she would not care about agency rules. She would have wanted to spend her time with you.
Majority of young Women have basic English knowledge. It is taught in their schools. The whole friend on a date serves a purpose.
1. To get more money from you
2. To keep you from getting to close to the girl (make any moves)
3. Provide a quick way out of the date.

When a Woman is into you she does not want others around. She wants her time with you and to be intimate with you be it holding hands, kisses etc...

The first time I met my wife in person she was waiting for me at the airport. She invited me to stay at her home. I was there for a month and litterally the only time I was away from her was when using the toilet. She showed me all of Odessa and walk beside me holding onto my arm.

Also knowing how Anastasia works your complaint is the reason you received the phone call from Olga to meet without Elena.
Anastasia loves Men complaints. Reason is the profit from them. The moment that complaint went in to Anastasia anywhere from $300 to $500 of the Agency money was put on hold as a fine while an investigation was being conducted. I know this from the agencies. It is done immediately. A copy of what you wrote was sent to the agency. Olga saw every word of your complaint. Not only would the agency lose $300 to $500 from it but they also risk being removed from Anastasia. Anastasia is the sole source of income for most of their agencies. To lose ability to work with Anastasia will result in Agency shutting down.
At this point the agency went into panic mode and had Olga contact you for the private meeting in order to sway the investigation in their favor.
The worst part about Anastasia though is. While they do investigate scams and will take action, they will never admit the scam occurred to you. They will make excuses and make it look like agency did nothing wrong when they reply to you. Why? Because if they admit a scam they have to give a refund.

I am not trying to be mean but you have called this girl naive. In reality it was you who was naive. You allowed it to happen and while you gave us this long post about how you can pick out scams you did not see the one happening right in front of you. You fell for a pretty face and you did not want to believe the truth. Your last post even went to the point you were making excused for her behavior to justify you were not being taken.
If she was really into you and it was all real you would not have had the time to stop by here while in Ukraine to even write any of this. Any Man here who met a real lady in the FSU will tell you. They will not let you out of their site. They will spend every moment with you and will even be jealous if they see you looking at any other Woman. They will be around you all the time to keep you from seeing any other Woman.

With that said I wanted to comment about something you did write.
How would other Women on Anastasia have ability to contact Olga?
I just did not get it when you wrote it. How would they have her number etc...
It just seems odd to be even talking to other Woman about her but the fact they contacted her as well.


Move on from this. It will only get worse. Start over and find someone new.

[Shadow]

Matty to add to this my history, somewhere in the trip reports here if you have time to read more.

1st trip to FSU: 3 days in Kiev.
Day 1 arrival, when I got in the apartment met the woman, had dinner at a Unrainian restaurant that she found expensive.
Day 2: walked around kieven, wen to Pechersk lavra and visited her flat. Shortly after dinner she left.
Day 3: After visiting the Open Air Museum, I had a straight talk with her. We both understood that while we clicked as friends, we would not click as lovers. After that a great dinner and evening.
Day 4: She saw me off to the airport, and while this was in 2004, we still occasionally have contact. BTW she is now married.

2nd trip to FSU: 3 days in Moscow.
Day 1 arrival. After settling in to the hotel, called and met in a local restaurant. Talked a long time.
Day 2: visited the Kremlin, Winter festival and met her friends. Dinner at her friends, and a lot of vodka.
Day3: Met other friends, after that visited her parents.
Day 4: back to the airport. This woman is now MrsShadow.

As you see, if a woman is interested in you she will make time to meet you. Even if there is need for an interpreter, she will have time available.
If Iliona would not be interested, she would not have asked to meet her. But she knows you are there for someone else, and does not want to be only for consolation.

Ifyou want to know if she is interested, just ask her straight. If not, she will be able to help you find someone who will want to get to know you.

[facetrock]

  I think this a good experience for Matty. he came here late and learned alot in the short time he was here. Wonder how it would it would have turned out if he would never have found this place. Its only a three day trip and wont cost him alot. Better this way than to spend a week or more with some girls who's main agenda is his money which is obvious to anyone with experience on the ground in the FSU.
 
   But I give him credit. Definitly not a keyboard romeo. He got on the plane quickly instead of writing forever. He made mistakes but we all have. Matty is one of the few that actually made the trip.

   I have written to girls in the past that have wanted me it come visit and use one of their freinds as a terp. Amazing how fast they lose interest in you when you inform them you have your own interpreter, even if you dont. Just a little white lie.