The Good, the bad, the ugly,... Get the truth.

[Amerkanski]

The Validity lacks responses?  



As mentioned, my experience there is different than yours,,
this may be from having some close friends  and extended family.
I am divorced after a 6 year marriage (8 year relationship) to a RW, so your continued thrust that anyone not sharing your exacting view is "protecting" their dream ,or their current situation, doesn't fly with me.

Again I will say that I have seen the traits you've mentioned..
but have a much different general view than your own.

My thoughts of why your experiences are different ..
and it is relevant to a thread telling newbies "the truth"


*No matter where you go , you take yourself with you*

Now that could be in reference to me ,or you, or both..

Having lived in several cultures happily..  i have my doubts you could live in any other culture happily long term.
Certainly not the Russian one, as you have clearly indicated you will leave as soon as possible,
. that biases your perspective of  "the truth". You can't recognize that?

Someone that could relocate and be happy ,in that culture, will have a very different perspective than yourself.
Not every new guy taking his first trip would be a sheep to the slaughter


Your primary  message seems to be to  warn new guys that RW are not what the agency hype sells..

Fair enough, I totally agree, and I cant imagine anyone disagreeing with it.

so think of *why* we have 16 pages.

Again, someone that refuses to read the thread entirely or understands the topic. So again, I live there for business and date Russian women because I am a man. I did not go to Russia to meet women (like you) to experience the culture or to find a RB. This allows me to see things in a completely different truthful perspective then you. Why? Because I do not have any emotional or physical bonding to RW or the country. It's 16 pages because of the truth.

Also, I've posted my email on here and already 4 people contacted me to call them or are asking questions about life in RU. You can't get more truthful then that..

[Daveman]

I lash out at people who refuse to read the thread in total and continually ask the same questions over and over. Our better yet, the personal assumptions like you that have zero relevance to the topic with laced validity claims. How can it be remotely valid if it's not on topic? I did not start a thread directed towards AM who are already married and have wives that live here, but that's what the majority of what you want to talk about in comparison. Meaning, why are you questioning me in the first place when you do not fit the main criteria of the topic?  

Good lord Amer, do you not see that those who HAVE traveled down this road before and who ARE married or have been married are the *best* qualified to discuss this topic of "The Good, the bad, the ugly... Get the truth." (the actual topic) with you or anyone else?

Did you actually expect only those who've never traveled there to gaze upon and respond to your words? worship you as a guru, and flee back to their homeland filled with the catharsis of newly found wisdom The Great Majestic Amerikanski is proselytizing?

You've stated an opinion/s.  Your opinion/s was challenged. That's about it.  If there is one thing I have learned through my own experience is that there is no 'truth' anywhere in the world - but rather very microcosmic and limited perceptions.


public class Act
{

   string goal="I know everything";

   while (goal == false)
   {
        openMind();
        exchangeIdeas();
        beRespectful();
        realizeYouDontKnowItAll();
   }
}


yes. I know a string isn't boolean, but perhaps just a different structure will get the point across

[GQBlues]

The OP's choice of topic to discussed is admittedly provocative at best. It's a viable topic however. Maybe it appears only to me but somehow reading through the thread I get more the sensation that this had quickly became a case of shooting down the messenger as oppose to the content of the message being sent.

I asked both doll and Ravens before exactly what they believe is untrue to what he said in his initial post/s, which if I may add, was mostly supported by 2 RWs as being relatively accurate.

So far from what I have read, cross cutural marriages carry with them a lot of nuances and difficulties quite plenty of newbies need to be aware of. The fact he's in Russia, he speaks of Russian women. The logic is, if he was in the Phillippines, Colombia, Vietnam, Japan - he'll likely sing the same tune only he would be referring to those native to their respective countries.

Marrying anyone from a culture other than your own do in fact carry a great deal of understanding and patience. Be it Russian, Filipina, Vietnamese, or Latina. Since this site centers on FSU and mostly about Russian/Ukranian, the OP have things to tell about his experiences living in Russia. So really, does it matter if he's from Mars or Timbukto, or worst, San Fernando valley?   Let him tell his tale. For those who may want to listen do. Those who do not, don't.

Running almost parallel to this topic is some observations I notice with RWs married to Russian men living here in the States. I am mainly speaking of men who either brought their wives with them when they immigrated, or those born in Russia, lived here a while, then petitioned a woman to come and join him.

The fact is, there are stark differences in the way a RM treats his relations with RWs than AMs do theirs. While we may see things to be bad' from our POV, they may likely be normal from theirs. Understanding as much of that dynamics may actually be helpful for many amongst us - married or otherwise.

[Amerkanski]

Good lord Amer, do you not see that those who HAVE traveled down this road before and who ARE married or have been married are the *best* qualified to discuss this topic of "The Good, the bad, the ugly... Get the truth." (the actual topic) with you or anyone else?

Did you actually expect only those who've never traveled there to gaze upon and respond to your words? worship you as a guru, and flee back to their homeland filled with the catharsis of newly found wisdom The Great Majestic Amerikanski is proselytizing?

You've stated an opinion/s.  Your opinion/s was challenged. That's about it.  If there is one thing I have learned through my own experience is that there is no 'truth' anywhere in the world - but rather very microcosmic and limited perceptions.


public class Act
{

   string goal="I know everything";

   while (goal == false)
   {
        openMind();
        exchangeIdeas();
        beRespectful();
        realizeYouDontKnowItAll();
   }
}

then get busy explaining the bad, the ugly..something you have not done.

[Blues Fairy]

I did not start a thread directed towards AM who are already married and have wives that live here, but that's what the majority of what you want to talk about in comparison. Meaning, why are you questioning me in the first place when you do not fit the main criteria of the topic?  

The logic!   Are the RW who are already married to American males so markedly different, as a whole, from those who are only about to be married to American males?  If not, than why can't married guys offer their perspective?

[Admin]

Again, someone that refuses to read the thread entirely or understands the topic. So again, I live there for business and date Russian women because I am a man. I did not go to Russia to meet women (like you) to experience the culture or to find a RB. This allows me to see things in a completely different truthful perspective then you. Why? Because I do not have any emotional or physical bonding to RW or the country. It's 16 pages because of the truth.

Also, I've posted my email on here and already 4 people contacted me to call them or are asking questions about life in RU. You can't get more truthful then that..

You are not the only one who found themselves working and living in the FSU and not explicitly seeking a wife. We have quite a few of those members here at RWD, including AJ, IIRC.

Once again, you have no corner on the market of "the truth" - nor do I. What we each have is our experiences and opinions and capacity to persuade (or not) others of the veracity of our relative positions.

You see your experiences through a prism that may, or more likely may not, be similar to what someone else experiences. I can state with absolute certainty that while I have known some expats who follow a similar path to the one you've described, those are NOT typical, and are not among the long-term expats I know.

To proclaim that you, and only you, are able and equipped to provide "the truth" to our members is more than a little arrogant.

- Dan

[Amerkanski]

The OP's choice of topic to discussed is admittedly provocative at best. It's a viable topic however. Maybe it appears only to me but somehow reading through the thread I get more the sensation that this had quickly became a case of shooting down the messenger as oppose to the content of the message being sent.

I asked both doll and Ravens before exactly what they believe is untrue to what he said in his initial post/s, which if I may add, was mostly supported by 2 RWs as being relatively accurate.

So far from what I have read, cross cutural marriages carry with them a lot of nuances and difficulties quite plenty of newbies need to be aware of. The fact he's in Russia, he speaks of Russian women. The logic is, if he was in the Phillippines, Colombia, Vietnam, Japan - he'll likely sing the same tune only he would be referring to those native to their respective countries.

Marrying anyone from a culture other than your own do in fact carry a great deal of understanding and patience. Be it Russian, Filipina, Vietnamese, or Latina. Since this site centers on FSU and mostly about Russian/Ukranian, the OP have things to tell about his experiences living in Russia. So really, does it matter if he's from Mars or Timbukto, or worst, San Fernando valley?   Let him tell his tale. For those who may want to listen do. Those who do not, don't.

Running almost parallel to this topic is some observations I notice with RWs married to Russian men living here in the States. I am mainly speaking of men who either brought their wives with them when they immigrated, or those born in Russia, lived here a while, then petitioned a woman to come and join him.

The fact is, there are stark differences in the way a RM treats his relations with RWs than AMs do theirs. While we may see things to be bad' from our POV, they may likely be normal from theirs. Understanding as much of that dynamics may actually be helpful for many amongst us - married or otherwise.

You sir are a genius. Thank you.

[UTRO]

No problem to give you my Stats Amerkansi.

I'm 47

I've worked for an American company, M*** Inc for 21 years. I retire in May 2013

I was married for 9 years from 1986 till 1995.

I had a Common Law relationship for 9 years from 1997 till 2006. Three wonderful children and an Ex who has many regrets in life and is a good Woman regardless.

Sveta and I were married in April 2009.

[UTRO]

The truth is you judge a country by how many people want in, not out..  

Not a single family member or friend of Sveta's has expressed any desire what so ever, in leaving Russia.
On the contrary, they can't understand why anyone would want to leave Russia and why I don't want to Immigrate to the Motherland.

[Jumper]

Again, someone that refuses to read the thread entirely or understands the topic. So again, I live there for business and date Russian women because I am a man. I did not go to Russia to meet women (like you) to experience the culture or to find a RB. This allows me to see things in a completely different truthful perspective then you. Why? Because I do not have any emotional or physical bonding to RW or the country. It's 16 pages because of the truth.

Your assumptions are incorrect, i was living abroad.. and working there. When I live somewhere,I like to experience and embrace the culture, in fact i enjoy this even just visiting. If i was there 5 years odds are great i would be conversationally fluent and certianly know my "numbers" well.  i think this alone would ,and has altered my intercation with the people and the culture there.. and has effected and limited your interaction  , though you will deny it ..
  
Everyone is different.. if it's not your cup of tea, to experience the culture, that's fine?
but our perspectives will be different.


I certainly have read the entire thread, and you have made a couple of points.
Hardly a huge relevation of truths.
Honestly, you just seem dissappointed that your soap box isn't tall enough.
 

Also, I've posted my email on here and already 4 people contacted me to call them or are asking questions about life in RU. You can't get more truthful then that..

I'm sure you are telling the truth that 4 people emailed you?



 I will AGAIN remind you ,since it doesnt seem to click ,that  diffrent opinions are allowed in the thread ,
it isn't "yours" and you can not dictate the threads  content to only allow your perception of reality.
It's gone 16 pages because you want only your view recognized as the one "truth".

Your perception is just that ,yours.
some may share it ,,others may not.

Anyone is welcome to post their perception of Russian women and culture in the context if this thread, as it is quite relevant to the topic.

[Amerkanski]

You are not the only one who found themselves working and living in the FSU and not explicitly seeking a wife. We have quite a few of those members here at RWD, including AJ, IIRC.

Once again, you have no corner on the market of "the truth" - nor do I. What we each have is our experiences and opinions and capacity to persuade (or not) others of the veracity of our relative positions.

You see your experiences through a prism that may, or more likely may not, be similar to what someone else experiences. I can state with absolute certainty that while I have known some expats who follow a similar path to the one you've described, those are NOT typical, and are not among the long-term expats I know.

To proclaim that you, and only you, are able and equipped to provide "the truth" to our members is more than a little arrogant.

- Dan

Did you even look at my disclaimer? And how do you get more obvious it's my opinion of the truth?

Now this is going to be off-topic.

The problems your having with this board/thread is most of your members (not all) came and dropped anchor. So when someone new comes in and pulls the sheets it ruffles some feathers. Instead of maybe listing to the message you have grown more concerned with the delivery method. Please understand this will be the death of any open forum.

I know because I have 2 boards (one decade old) that caters to 95% males and about fishing and hunting with 70k members and averages about 300 posts a day. It can get rough and I understand it's your board, your rules, but it is needed to let your members get their chain pulled or be a little brash to keep on topic so we can all play through. In short, I've never got a chance to get my full message out without this place turning into a drama fest.

[UTRO]

There was no response because it would mean more if you did it publicly because our disagreement was not in private.

Amerkanski, why would I Post what I wrote to you Privately, in Public? It wasn't an Appology to you! It was a Truce for the sake of this Thread and All Members.

AJ, I agree. Close the Thread. Perhaps Amerkansiki needs this as much as we all do.  
Clear the slate so to speak.
I have personally extended my hand to him privately with no response from him....

As you can see Dan, I did try to clear the air with a Private Message to Amerkanski. He admits so in his above Quote. He stubbornly refuses to make any concessions. Who's being what here?? I tried by taking the first step and he ignores the gesture.

[Ravens9273]

The OP's choice of topic to discussed is admittedly provocative at best. It's a viable topic however. Maybe it appears only to me but somehow reading through the thread I get more the sensation that this had quickly became a case of shooting down the messenger as oppose to the content of the message being sent.

I asked both doll and Ravens before exactly what they believe is untrue to what he said in his initial post/s, which if I may add, was mostly supported by 2 RWs as being relatively accurate.

So far from what I have read, cross cutural marriages carry with them a lot of nuances and difficulties quite plenty of newbies need to be aware of. The fact he's in Russia, he speaks of Russian women. The logic is, if he was in the Phillippines, Colombia, Vietnam, Japan - he'll likely sing the same tune only he would be referring to those native to their respective countries.

Marrying anyone from a culture other than your own do in fact carry a great deal of understanding and patience. Be it Russian, Filipina, Vietnamese, or Latina. Since this site centers on FSU and mostly about Russian/Ukranian, the OP have things to tell about his experiences living in Russia. So really, does it matter if he's from Mars or Timbukto, or worst, San Fernando valley?   Let him tell his tale. For those who may want to listen do. Those who do not, don't.

Running almost parallel to this topic is some observations I notice with RWs married to Russian men living here in the States. I am mainly speaking of men who either brought their wives with them when they immigrated, or those born in Russia, lived here a while, then petitioned a woman to come and join him.

The fact is, there are stark differences in the way a RM treats his relations with RWs than AMs do theirs. While we may see things to be bad' from our POV, they may likely be normal from theirs. Understanding as much of that dynamics may actually be helpful for many amongst us - married or otherwise.

GQ
I stated earlier where my disagreement came in. I also stated I did not argue nor make any reference to his first and original post. Once others challenged him he put up false information he just made up out of thin air to make an argument. This is where I came in.
I argued his claims to Russians not liking Americans and his statistics that the marriages fail. After many times of him claiming to put up his statistics with viable proof he has yet to do so. I never once made any remarks to his opening comments. I simply made it known if he wants anyone to listen to what he has to say then he needs to stick to real facts and not start making things up out of thin air to prove his point. This was all stated earlier in my posts. If you are trying to make a point, no matter how much truth it holds you will lose credability once you resort to making up fake statistics and other false claims.

While his experiences may be true there is one simple fact lacking from all of this. His experiences are not everyone elses. As being human we are all different. We are all different ages here. We all look different. We all act different. We all have different tastes, hobbies, likes, dislikes and most of all we all have different personalities.

If I grew up on the streets where people were doing drugs, robbing each other and even killing each other my life experiences will be different from someone growing up in the suburbs or in luxury of Beverly Hills. My story would be different then everyone elses.
My attitude towards life will also conclude my outlook on life. My personality will reflect how others in this world react to me.

If any one truth we have gained from this thread is that Amerikanski does not poses the personality that would make people like him. In fact this thread is a clear sign that his personality is one people do not like. With that is it not responsible to believe he will have negative experiences anywhere?
Whereas a person who posses a more likeable personality will have more positive experiences.
There is no way anyone could expect that Amerikanski acted any differently in Russia, the USA or anywhere else then he is acting here. I am sure once he leaves here he will make the same comments about RWD he is making about Russia. Truth be told it is not RWD or Russia it is simply HIM.
If I act like a thug and hang out with criminals odds are I will end up in Prison. If I am mean and nasty odds are I will be around other mean and nasty people. As the ole saying goes "Birds of a feather flock together".

I have nothing but positive experiences within the FSU. I have a great wife who meets not one part of his description of RW. But I am also not Amerikanski.
As Ray Lewis would say "The Bottom Line is" his experiences are because of the person he is. It is not Russia. Our experiences will be our own. It is only the person we are that will determine what our experiences will be.

[Amerkanski]

The logic!   Are the RW who are already married to American males so markedly different, as a whole, from those who are only about to be married to American males?  If not, than why can't married guys offer their perspective?

Because they ran-off the single guys with "their" perspective and drama. And why the single guys are now emailing me.

[Daveman]

then get busy explaining the bad, the ugly..something you have not done.

I don't feel qualified to explain it, but rather express my own observations, such as here responding to Doll (I tried in other times as well):

He made it clear- we can't understand it.
Though, wait a minute- he did define,"Matter of fact, they are more attracted to strong mental/physical men then they are to intellectuals. In short, the game never stops and if it does they will quickly move onto the next"
I think this is the definition.

That was my take as well... so, does anyone think this is a falsehood?  Does every culture have their emotional/mind games with the difference being that we understand ours, but theirs is completely alien to us?  

I agree that this "mentality", while perhaps overstated above, does indeed exist to varying degrees in various women.  To call it "prison" mentality is a stretch, but RW do seem to love drama and games, and seem to think that the deeper she can push a button, the more he cares... agree? disagree? moving to France?

So you see, I don't necessarily disagree with everything you state, but rather I am suggesting that since you are the initiator of this topic, that more elaboration from you would give larger credibility to the points you are making.  

Other points.. many run down looking buildings with elevators from hell.. absolutely... but interior apartments that I have seen are immaculate and well cared for.

Idiot drivers... absolutely.
Rampant corruption.. no doubt
Less politically correct culture (and thus appearing less polite) ... you freakin' bet
Ugly dirty (not to mention difficult to ... nevermind) public toilets and paper laced with razorblades
The need for bottled water.
Gorgeous parks.
Sucky ass steaks.
Terrible bowling lane conditions (they really need to learn the oil should not be applied on the approach! jeeeez...)


I have a little over 300 some odd days on the ground there now (far less than you), in Kiev, Odessa, Kharkov, Moscow, Omsk, All over Crimea, and Donetsk -- but I've walked the streets alone (even at night) hundredsof times, engaged locals in conversation, shopped for food, clothes, bargained at the open markets, etc.. basically lived on my own and have yet to encounter any sort of problem whatsoever other than a back injury from falling into the Crevasse of Doom for which I received top notch state of the art care at about one tenth the cost of what it would have been in America.. no scams, no muggings, nothing nefarious.  That's not to say it will not happen at some point in the future, but my view of that aspect would be a little different from someone who had some problems.  

SO my overall view is that there is Beautiful, Good, Mediocre, Bad, Terrible, and Ugly...

[Amerkanski]

GQ
I stated earlier where my disagreement came in. I also stated I did not argue nor make any reference to his first and original post. Once others challenged him he put up false information he just made up out of thin air to make an argument. This is where I came in.
I argued his claims to Russians not liking Americans and his statistics that the marriages fail. After many times of him claiming to put up his statistics with viable proof he has yet to do so. I never once made any remarks to his opening comments. I simply made it known if he wants anyone to listen to what he has to say then he needs to stick to real facts and not start making things up out of thin air to prove his point. This was all stated earlier in my posts. If you are trying to make a point, no matter how much truth it holds you will lose credability once you resort to making up fake statistics and other false claims.

While his experiences may be true there is one simple fact lacking from all of this. His experiences are not everyone elses. As being human we are all different. We are all different ages here. We all look different. We all act different. We all have different tastes, hobbies, likes, dislikes and most of all we all have different personalities.

If I grew up on the streets where people were doing drugs, robbing each other and even killing each other my life experiences will be different from someone growing up in the suburbs or in luxury of Beverly Hills. My story would be different then everyone elses.
My attitude towards life will also conclude my outlook on life. My personality will reflect how others in this world react to me.

If any one truth we have gained from this thread is that Amerikanski does not poses the personality that would make people like him. In fact this thread is a clear sign that his personality is one people do not like. With that is it not responsible to believe he will have negative experiences anywhere?
Whereas a person who posses a more likeable personality will have more positive experiences.
There is no way anyone could expect that Amerikanski acted any differently in Russia, the USA or anywhere else then he is acting here. I am sure once he leaves here he will make the same comments about RWD he is making about Russia. Truth be told it is not RWD or Russia it is simply HIM.
If I act like a thug and hang out with criminals odds are I will end up in Prison. If I am mean and nasty odds are I will be around other mean and nasty people. As the ole saying goes "Birds of a feather flock together".

I have nothing but positive experiences within the FSU. I have a great wife who meets not one part of his description of RW. But I am also not Amerikanski.
As Ray Lewis would say "The Bottom Line is" his experiences are because of the person he is. It is not Russia. Our experiences will be our own. It is only the person we are that will determine what our experiences will be.

you you you..with a great wife- you still have yet TO figured out the topic... Matter of fact, I've noticed every married guy in here talks more about me then there own wives...So how is this helping any surfer reading this thread? IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU OR ME-WAKE UP!

[BillyB]

I know because I have 2 boards (one decade old) that caters to 95% males and about fishing and hunting with 70k members and averages about 300 posts a day. It can get rough and I understand it's your board, your rules, but it is needed to let your members get there chain pulled or be a little brash to keep on topic so we can all play through. In short, I've never got a chance to get my full message out without this place turning into a drama fest.

You own two boards yet you failed to get your full message through after 127 posts and 17 pages? I doubt you own any internet forums since you have communication problems. It doesn't matter where you go on the internet or in real life. If you walk into someone's house for the first time to ruffle feathers, don't be surprised if there's a foot in your mouth before finishing your message.

[Misha]

I did not start a thread directed towards AM who are already married and have wives that live here, but that's what the majority of what you want to talk about in comparison. Meaning, why are you questioning me in the first place when you do not fit the main criteria of the topic?  

You keep harping about "blinders" yet fail to see your own. Does Russia have its failing? Yes. So does the United States, Canada and every other country. I would be more than happy to discuss with you rationally what I believe could be done to improve life in Russia.

Are RW all perfect angels? No. Do individual RW have their failings? Of course. Should any men naively rush off to Russia and marry the first woman they find because of any hype they have heard? Of course not. However, RW are not the evil scum of the earth as you seem intent on painting them to be. You have many wonderful women who are or would be wonderful wives.

My advice: take your own blinders off and listen to what others have to say. You clearly have much to learn.

[sunandsail]

Terrible bowling lane conditions

Well, that's the last straw.   I can accept corruption, mindless materialism and mentally ill behavior.   But a bad bowling alley....

[Blues Fairy]

Because they ran-off the single guys with "their" perspective and drama. And why the single guys are now emailing me.

The ran off YOU, not the single guys, because the married members clearly have more experience to offer to those who seek to marry RW than you do.   

[UTRO]

Because they ran-off the single guys with "their" perspective and drama. And why the single guys are now emailing me.

What does Sveta think about your attitude regarding Russian Women?

As far as the single guys emailing you, how come they haven't come on to Post their support and agreement with you?
I don't see the Amerkanski Fan Club developing, supporting your ridiculous facts and statements about Russian Women and Russia in general.

[Admin]

Did you even look at my disclaimer? And how do you get more obvious it's my opinion of the truth?

Now this is going to be off-topic.

The problems your having with this board/thread is most of your members (not all) came and dropped anchor. So when someone new comes in and pulls the sheets it ruffles some feathers. Instead of maybe listing to the message you have grown more concerned with the delivery method. Please understand this will be the death of any open forum.

I know because I have 2 boards (one decade old) that caters to 95% males and about fishing and hunting with 70k members and averages about 300 posts a day. It can get rough and I understand it's your board, your rules, but it is needed to let your members get there chain pulled or be a little brash to keep on topic so we can all play through. In short, I've never got a chance to get my full message out without this place turning into a drama fest.

Yeah - I know about your forum - one of 'em anyway. Checked it out your first day here.

As for your position about "brash" - well, the topic is still open and you are still posting. "Playing through" in your vernacular - at least, for now.

You are correct that we, like all internet fora, have members who stick closely to what is known and comfortable. At the same time, I provided you links to our guiding principles, and it should be clear to you that we also encourage others to consider opinions from others - especially those opinions which are different from their own. The problem in THIS case is you initiated a topic rooted in arrogance (claiming it was YOURS to own), and dismissive of others who challenged or dissented - AND - your style was combative. I have been managing/owning internet discussion fora since the 80's (SysOp at Compuserve before the internet), and have NEVER seen the combination of behaviors you presented result in a productive outcome.

If you are sincere about wanting to make a contribution and feeling you have not been 'heard' as yet - you still have time. In this topic you have been requested by several members to 'get to the point' - but instead, you opt to sling mud.

Make your points - expect challenges and diversity of opinion - 'handle' those challenges with grace and humility - and maybe, just maybe, you can get this back on track. Or don't ... and it will continue to devolve.

- Dan

[facetrock]

  The OP can give us a different perspective. He lives and works in Russia and is not looking to get married. He is not the first one to do that here but its an opinion that we see very little of on this forum.
  Some will ask if he isnt looking for a wife why date at all over there. He said it before. Its because he is a man and men look for women no matter where they are. Kind of our nature

  His experiences will be different because he has no intention of finding a wife. I would say if I went to work in Russia not looking for a wife my impression of the country and people would be different than what I have now.
   Looking for romance and trying to get a job done is two different things.

  I have to go to Los Alamos, New Mexico to work next week. Been there before, cant stand the place. But what would I think of it if I just went there for a few weeks to see a beautiful woman? Bet I would be saying how nice it is.

  The more trips to the FSU I take, the less excited I am to get there and that is not because I think its a bad place. Its just not home and just not the culture I am used to. The novelty wore off quite awhile ago.

[GQBlues]

Ravens-

Understood and very much appreciate the response.

Here's some nuggets to ponder upon. I was born and spent a great deal of my life in Manila/Cebu, PI; and I'd like to believe I know about the native women from those places more so, if not as much, than any other foreigner who had lived there for a few years. Knowing and living this culture I do and have today - and still maintaining a full understanding of the culture I left behind, I can fully appreciate much of the difficulties of AMs marrying Filipina women. Heck, even my on mother made me swear I will never marry a Filipina woman. That may appear funny to many but there's a viable reason for that. But still, foreigners still come in huge flocks to that island year in and year out. More so than AM heading to Russia.

Would an ordinary traveller, or even an AM who lived there for one, two, or even 3 years would have the capacity of fully understanding the dynamics of life and living as a native - no way. But he'll likely have a viable idea. What that compose of - will vary according to his perspective and surroundings. That part I would agree with you - BUT - it doesn't invalidate any of the experiences he gathered nonetheless.

Forget statistics Ravens, they're almost always bias. Besides, they're just as much subjective as an opinion being laid out by someone like Amerkanski in more ways than not.

Lastly, it isn't an accident why so many of the people we all know and respect as gentle, understanding, intelligent, worldly, etc...can still falter in these marriages. I believe in many of these cases it isn't so much a case of good or bad, but rather a case of simply being "different". That 'difference' is maybe what we need to hear now and then, perhaps?

[Ravens9273]

you you you..with a great wife- you still have yet TO figured out the topic... Matter of fact, I've noticed every married guy in here talks more about me then there own wives...So how are helping any surfer reading this thread? IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU OR ME-WAKE UP!

This comment shows how arrogant you are. There are 1000"s of threads on RWD. You act as if this one particular thread is the only one that exists and matters. We have all talked about our wives before in threads that matter. This one does not. This thread lost all credabilty to matter after the first page.
Now as you tell others they need to read you need to do so as well.

You feel your experiences are law. They are not. I clearly said your experiences are negative because of who you are as a person. You are not likeable by anyone at all. You will only deal with other people like you in your life. So obviously you will have bad experiences. You seem to not want to accept that others here are not like you and can have positive experiences. That you need to deal with.
You always keep refering to the topic at hand yet after 17 pages I still have no idea what the topic at hand is.

If anything lets make this simple.
Change your subject to.
If you are a first time American going to visit Russia and are mean and nasty like me where no one likes you then I will tell you how Russia will be to you.

When will you finally relaize your own attitude will determin your experiences?
What you expereince others will not. In plain English. We are not like you!!!!!!