New questions

[edu]

Sorry to post this.  I didn't know where else to post. 

I keep hearing people here making comments about "dating out of your league"  What does that mean exactly?  Is it money, looks, education, intelligence, personality?

Another question.  What is the deal with agency scams?  I have some experience with Anastasia as that was the first agency I ever saw while looking online.  It was a nightmare and a mistake, but in a way it was my fault.

Where's a good place to meet FSU women online, other than agencies?  It seems to me that Mamba is not very user friendly, plus is packed with "celebrities" trying to hook up.  Or women offering their services for money.  My thoughts about scouring the web for FSU women at Russian sites is that probably they are not interested in meeting westerners.

I was in Korea in 2003 and I was "involved" with Russian women.  Ever since that day I have been interested in Slavic women.  IDK why.  Your insights would be greatly welcome.

[Turboguy]

Dating out of your league can be a lot of things.  One of the most common is age.  There are lots of older guys who won't even look at a beautiful woman who is close to their age.   (not that I should talk).   It can also be looks.  Lots of middle aged, dumpy men go chasing women who look like playboy centerfolds.  It can be intelligence or income as well but I think those are less of an issue.  Any guy working as a cashier at WalMart and going after a high maintance woman is going to have probelms but I don't see that as dating out of someones league as much as just not being realistic and thinking with thier little head rather than the big one.

I agree about Anastasia.  There are lots of good sites.   The one I had great success with was Elenas Models, but Merry Dating, and lots of others are good.

[Daveman]

Sorry to post this.  I didn't know where else to post. 

I keep hearing people here making comments about "dating out of your league"  What does that mean exactly?  Is it money, looks, education, intelligence, personality?

Well, a combination of all the above.  This isn't so much about RW as it is about M and W from anywhere.  The more "similar" two people are, the more likely that love is real and the relationship can experience longevity and vitality.  We all have heard of and seen examples of lottery winners, as well as mismatched couples (Supermodel with Quasimodo, Huge age gaps, The female doctor in love with the pizza delivery boy, or the Rocket scientist married to the Waffle House waitress)..  the evidence of relationships seems to bear out that the less we match, the less "love conquers all", or the less likely real love will ever grow in the first place.

Another question.  What is the deal with agency scams?  I have some experience with Anastasia as that was the first agency I ever saw while looking online.  It was a nightmare and a mistake, but in a way it was my fault.

Where's a good place to meet FSU women online, other than agencies?  It seems to me that Mamba is not very user friendly, plus is packed with "celebrities" trying to hook up.  Or women offering their services for money.  My thoughts about scouring the web for FSU women at Russian sites is that probably they are not interested in meeting westerners.

One recommended site is Elenas Models...

I was in Korea in 2003 and I was "involved" with Russian women.  Ever since that day I have been interested in Slavic women.  IDK why.  Your insights would be greatly welcome.

Because you obviously have a defective brain.    sigh.... join the crowd...

[kievstar]

Dating out of your league can have different meaning to everybody.

Men who go to Ukraine to upgrade on the women they can marry over a local woman usually run into problems once she comes to the USA.  Age, education level, looks, status, profession title, etc all plays into it.  Marriages out of each others league is rare that work now.  I know several men who married down even.  Do not assume the men are always upgrading.  Marrying down is not good either.

The married couples currently on here I see very few men who upgraded at all.  No knock on the women but the men dated in their league.  There are a couple here I see who dated out of their league a little (not by much) but they had children so that helps.

You can be a 50 year old man with average looks and income and marry a women under 30 and make the marriage work.  But the odds are against you if she is very beautiful and high educated and you have no children together.

Most of the divorces you see here past 2 years the man had no children with his RW.  Have children and your league gets bigger. 



 

[zague17]

So, if one can't date out of your league, then what's the point of going to Russian women?

[Faux Pas]

So, if one can't date out of your league, then what's the point of going to Russian women?

You can certainly date and marry out of your league. Of course many men can do that without ever leaving their own country but the results are normally the same. They wind up with their ass handed to them in one form or another. Why would you think Russian women would be any different?

It's no secret that men can and do go to the FSW and date a class of women that would not give them the time of day back home and thats fine. But marriage and even a K-1 visa is a legal binding contract that can cause an unsuspecting soul much more trouble that he initially bargained for.

With that said, if you think Russian women are different other than the sexy accent and mannerisms. You should think again. If one marries or uses you as an exit from her hardscrabble life that is probably going to be the least of your concerns before it is all said and done.

[Misha]

I keep hearing people here making comments about "dating out of your league"  What does that mean exactly?  Is it money, looks, education, intelligence, personality?

Here, it will refer usually to looks.

Where's a good place to meet FSU women online, other than agencies?  It seems to me that Mamba is not very user friendly, plus is packed with "celebrities" trying to hook up.

Can't you quickly filter them out? I met my wife with the help of Mamba. The prostitutes were easy to identify, I avoided the profiles where the photos did not seem authentic and I looked for women who had specified that they wanted a relationship and/or marriage. Sure, it requires a bit of effort, but it is comparable to panning for gold: you can't expect to simply strike it rich on your first try.

My thoughts about scouring the web for FSU women at Russian sites is that probably they are not interested in meeting westerners.

Not all will be interested in marrying a foreigner, but some will marry the right foreigner for love. Either the thought of marrying a foreigner never crossed their mind or they did not want to join an agency where women was looking specifically for a foreigner. I found that an advantage: you were not going to find many women who were merely looking to leave their country.

[edu]

You can certainly date and marry out of your league. Of course many men can do that without ever leaving their own country but the results are normally the same. They wind up with their ass handed to them in one form or another. Why would you think Russian women would be any different?

It's no secret that men can and do go to the FSW and date a class of women that would not give them the time of day back home and thats fine. But marriage and even a K-1 visa is a legal binding contract that can cause an unsuspecting soul much more trouble that he initially bargained for.

With that said, if you think Russian women are different other than the sexy accent and mannerisms. You should think again. If one marries or uses you as an exit from her hardscrabble life that is probably going to be the least of your concerns before it is all said and done.

[dogspot]

So, if one can't date out of your league, then what's the point of going to Russian women?

 

 

[Misha]

So, if one can't date out of your league, then what's the point of going to Russian women?

Sure, you can date out of your league and even marry out of your league, but the question is whether you are aiming for a "death till you part" ending. If you are, then marrying someone who is much younger, much more attractive, a woman with whom you share little in terms of culture or shared interest, then the odds are certainly stacked against you.

[edu]

Sure, you can date out of your league and even marry out of your league, but the question is whether you are aiming for a "death till you part" ending. If you are, then marrying someone who is much younger, much more attractive, a woman with whom you share little in terms of culture or shared interest, then the odds are certainly stacked against you.

Misha,

Now that I can think clearly.  I think most people are always looking to marry "out of their league" regardless of nationality, even women.  USA, Europe, Asia.  And of course, everyone has their specific requirements.  Women and men have traits they seek in partners, such as looks, education and/or intelligence.  Without realizing they might not even be smart enough, good looking for their partners.

[Misha]

I think most people are always looking to marry "out of their league" regardless of nationality, even women. 

Yes, but do they marry "out of their league"? Rarely. Usually attractive people marry attractive people, not-so-attractive marry not-so-attractive people. The exceptions tend to be rare. Let's say you succeed and marry a woman who is very attractive and bring her to your country. You had better have a sound marriage as you will soon discover that every eligible (and sometimes not eligible) man will be hitting on your wife, and as I have discovered, you will also have some women openly "courting" your wife as well  :evil: If you marry out of your league, and there is no love, it will only be a matter of time before she moves on IMHO. 

[Daveman]

So, if one can't date out of your league, then what's the point of going to Russian women?

Sheer unadulterated, unequivocal, intense masochism... 

Oh, and the accent... 

And the quest for the Г spot...  :evil:

One can tempt fate and date a little above one's league, or one can shoot fate in the ass and completely go for it... just know going in that the further away from the median "league" of ladies in your own country who are attracted to you, the more likely you are to have a rough ride.  Time, time, more time... don't be a premature emarryalator, and don't rationalize away goofy, crappy, selfish, stupid behavior. 

[edu]

Yes, but do they marry "out of their league"? Rarely. Usually attractive people marry attractive people, not-so-attractive marry not-so-attractive people. The exceptions tend to be rare. Let's say you succeed and marry a woman who is very attractive and bring her to your country. You had better have a sound marriage as you will soon discover that every eligible (and sometimes not eligible) man will be hitting on your wife, and as I have discovered, you will also have some women openly "courting" your wife as well  :evil: If you marry out of your league, and there is no love, it will only be a matter of time before she moves on IMHO. 

And also wealthy, successful people can get really good looking mates.  It depends on what you want and willing to put up with.  I have met some older or plain looking men with stunning or younger wives and they have been married for years.  That's why I was wondering if Russian ladies had a different view.

[Faux Pas]

Sheer unadulterated, unequivocal, intense masochism... 

Oh, and the accent... 

And the quest for the Г spot...  :evil:

One can tempt fate and date a little above one's league, or one can shoot fate in the ass and completely go for it... just know going in that the further away from the median "league" of ladies in your own country who are attracted to you, the more likely you are to have a rough ride.  Time, time, more time... don't be a premature emarryalator, and don't rationalize away goofy, crappy, selfish, stupid behavior. 

 

Thats funny stuff right there

[zague17]

Sheer unadulterated, unequivocal, intense masochism... 

Oh, and the accent... 

And the quest for the Г spot...  :evil:

One can tempt fate and date a little above one's league, or one can shoot fate in the ass and completely go for it... just know going in that the further away from the median "league" of ladies in your own country who are attracted to you, the more likely you are to have a rough ride.  Time, time, more time... don't be a premature emarryalator, and don't rationalize away goofy, crappy, selfish, stupid behavior. 

So, what's the point of going to Eastern Europe to marry a "median league" girl, when you can have one in your country?  BTW, the "median league" girl will end up Americanizing or Westernizing, anyway.  So she'll end up becoming another whale

[Mike78]

Well, another thing is that in my opinion the "league" in the Slavic countries is a little bit somewhere else than in USA; the girls are generally prettier and especially skinnier. Even within USA there are big regional differences; I'm lucky I'm living in Phoenix metro where it's really not that bad at all, but looking at the women in the Midwest makes me want to cry...
However, the FSU woman might notice this difference in leagues when she comes here and realize that she had married down a little bit, even though you might have been a good catch back in Russia

[Misha]

And also wealthy, successful people can get really good looking mates.

They usually can find those mates locally 

It depends on what you want and willing to put up with.  I have met some older or plain looking men with stunning or younger wives and they have been married for years.  That's why I was wondering if Russian ladies had a different view.

Depends. Was there, is there, love or not. If there wasn't and isn't, then the odds increase considerably that he will be merely a stepping stone upwards and onwards.

[ECOCKS]

So, what's the point of going to Eastern Europe to marry a "median league" girl, when you can have one in your country?  BTW, the "median league" girl will end up Americanizing or Westernizing, anyway.  So she'll end up becoming another whale

Yeah, crazy isn't it?

Good thing you're not falling for the urban legend.

[Mike78]

So, what's the point of going to Eastern Europe to marry a "median league" girl, when you can have one in your country?  BTW, the "median league" girl will end up Americanizing or Westernizing, anyway.  So she'll end up becoming another whale

This is often true; I've observed several beautiful Czech/Slovak girls that "Americanized" (gained perhaps 30-50 lbs) within a couple years due to the convenient and cheap fast food and lack of natural exercise (walking). Most of them, however, cared enough for this not to happen and kept their nice figures...

[GQBlues]

So, if one can't date out of your league, then what's the point of going to Russian women?

Love it! A delectable candy-coated jalapeno pepper.

A huge part of me fully agrees with you. I'm as ugly as they come but I was never attracted to women as ugly, or even uglier than me. Hence, I never dated an ugly woman in my entire life - AND - wasn't about to do so if I had to go cross-continent to marry someone. If she's a babe, I'm game....

*I* am one of those ones who always had a huge smile on his face that everyone had seen before and wondered, "now, what the heck is she doing with him?". I'm always the guy who hit-on and closed the deal with beautiful women because every other man felt she was way out of their league.

Don't be the one going home alone holding on an empty bag thinking, Man, I should've!. You think she's a babe - give it a shot. Be a winner, not a weener. Let the ugly women date/marry all the other skittish fellas.

No one is attracted to ugly women, so why marry one? The choice is always there for all of us to make: A long life with an ugly woman, or a short stint with Ms. Universe.

It's matter of attitude.

[Markus]

edu,

Great question!

When I was 43 and searching, I didn't write to ladies less than 29 years of age. Ladies less than 29 years of age would have been "out of my league." I can say that I
did look for very pretty ladies though. Perhaps I pushed the envelope some in the "looks" area and went out of my league a bit. With respect to age and looks, each man
should think about reality limits and think about how the marriage will be in 5-10 years. These limits are subjective to each man.

Although being in or out of one's league may involve both age difference and looks, financial situation could fall into this category.  

So, if one can't date out of your league, then what's the point of going to Russian women?

I think there's a lot of us who did go out of our league with limits.

[Daveman]

So, what's the point of going to Eastern Europe to marry a "median league" girl, when you can have one in your country?  BTW, the "median league" girl will end up Americanizing or Westernizing, anyway.  So she'll end up becoming another whale

Marrying is just a part of the process of having a life partner, family, etc.  There are a variety of 'goals' that men have in this pursuit.  Some, and maybe most, are simply looking for and trying to snag the hottest babe that will have them.  Any fool can marry an RW. It's just not that difficult.  Finding a woman who will truly love, cherish, and be devoted to a man for the long haul of life is a different animal completely.  No one has said you "can't" do anything.  Just know that most of these relationships don't make it to the point of marriage, and those that do often end in spectacular fashion.  Culturally, we are a lot like oil and vinegar to begin with.  Often times you'll wonder if she's completely out of her freakin' mind, and at others she'll be thinking that and worse about you.     It really takes too special "personalities" to make this work, and not everyone (WM or FSUW) has what it takes to make this work, or has the fortitude to walk away from a beautiful woman when she's not the type of woman, aside from the packaging, that he's really looking for.  The meek may inherit the earth, but the dreamers delude themselves into believing the Siren's song and embark upon a march into the abyss.  


Read this again...

...
However, the FSU woman might notice this difference in leagues when she comes here and realize that she had married down a little bit, even though you might have been a good catch back in Russia

There's a hell of a lot of truth there.  Doesn't mean that she'll absolutely for certain dump you as soon as she can to upgrade when she moves to your country, but, if you're not really what she was looking for and she settled for you, for whatever reason at the time, the chances are high that she'll move on before long.  

And to sum it up, no one has said to throw yourself at an ugly woman. Go for whomever you wish, just understand that the less similar the two of you are the less similar your motives may be as well.

[XMan]

The question then becomes, regardless of age, looks, education, etc., how does one know when she is "for real?"
And I do not mean strictly FSU women.  Women in general.  
The obvious ones are easily weeded out.  
Even the not-so-obvious ones can be eliminated.  
But there are a fair number (IMO) that are not so easily analyzed.  
And of course, one can become overly paranoid and destroy an otherwise perfectly viable relationship by being suspicious of a woman's motives.  So where is the middle ground?  

Additionally, this is not a one-way street.  
A perfect (and quite real) example:
A good friend married a woman, spent 6 years together.  During this time she worked on, and completed, her PhD.  Everything seemed fine.  They had a child.  About 6 months after the child was born she landed her first full-time position.  They moved.  He took a mediocre job because that was the only choice.  He moved for her career.
60 days after moving, she kicks him out and gets a restraining order, claiming he threatened her and the child.  Takes him months to clear his name.  He winds up with nothing but a sledgehammered heart and a mediocre job, living in an apartment while she got the house, the better paying job, and child support.  
This was an AW.  

Hopefully an exception.  
But trust me, this guy is not stupid.  She crafted this from the outset, but would deny it to her grave.  
This guy was SURE he knew her.  They certainly seemed "within each other's league," at least as far as I could tell.

I don't know.  I've been burned by an AW, but not that severely.  So one doesn't have to leave the country to get tragically damaged.  

I have been cautious bordering on paranoid.  Even after a fair amount of experience, I STILL don't know, but am trying to move forward without thinking about this, or Maxx, or the other poor bastards who got taken to the cleaners financially, emotionally, and in every other way imaginable.  

And women wonder why men are afraid of commitment.  

[Blues Fairy]

I have met some older or plain looking men with stunning or younger wives and they have been married for years.  That's why I was wondering if Russian ladies had a different view.

I've always defined "my league" in terms of intellectual level, not in terms of appearance.  When you meet your true equal, it becomes very unimportant how he looks or how much he weighs - those are very superficial things. Although, for me, age difference was an important factor; but still, big age difference just that; big age difference.  I wouldn't define it as "out of league" - as if age somehow makes people less valuable.