Tashkent.....Finally!

[Donhollio]

  Interesting travels Jollyrats. What can you tell us about Tashkent? How does it compare to a city in other CIS countries? I'm destined to go there soon, and would like to know if it'll seem completely foreign in comparison to, cities in Russia and Ukraine.

[brave girl]

When it was my turn to talk to K she asked me to help her mom financially if I could.

BEWARE deep pockets!!
She is NOT good girl. :evil:
To talk about this another way. There is the sick relative in my family will you send the money??
I know the answer to this request and so do you!!  brave girl

[Mishenka]

Hello all, its been a long year since I posted.

  JR you could have saved yourself a trip if you had written me first. I spent a year in a relationship with a woman from Tashkent and spent a month on the ground with her and her family last March into April. She disappeared. Hind sight is always perfect vision. I have dated at least 20 FSU women, I can't remember a single one who did not expect the man to pay for everything all the time. The man is always being tested to see if he is "husband" material or not. They choose their man by financial "instinct", not by looks or spending enough time to see if they get along well enough to be married. There are few requirements gentlemen.  Is the man willing to let go of his hard earned cash and spend it on her every whim or not? If he is willing, he is then considered "husband" material.  The second you stop spending your money on her, you are history, bye bye.  Next requirement for most FSU women, is he a good lover and able to satisfy her every need when she wants it? If not, bye bye. Next, is he stupid enough that she can control him with her manipulations? If so, she will stay with you as long as she gets what she wants. She wants financial security first. When do these tests stop? Never.

Tashkent is among the poorest of the third world countries in the world. The average wage is 24 US dollars per month. When people work, they only hope to get paid, and rarely on time ad agreed. This is typical there. It is common to leave home to find work, Moscow, yes, for sure, however, to go to Turkey, Tajikistan or other Central Asian countries is no better than Tashkent, so why leave home? They just don't so this based on a promise. To many false promises already in their past. Her story sounds like fraud to me. The family, the friends, all sound like scammers. It cost them nothing to have you come visit. You were lucky your trip was short. They would have drained your bank accounts if you let them, ahh but, dint you let them. Lessons learned. Best of luck in the future.
Mishenka, Mishka bear.

[wiz]

I have dated at least 20 FSU women, I can't remember a single one who did not expect the man to pay for everything all the time. The man is always being tested to see if he is "husband" material or not. They choose their man by financial "instinct", not by looks or spending enough time to see if they get along well enough to be married. There are few requirements gentlemen.  Is the man willing to let go of his hard earned cash and spend it on her every whim or not? If he is willing, he is then considered "husband" material.  The second you stop spending your money on her, you are history, bye bye.  

Next requirement for most FSU women, is he a good lover and able to satisfy her every need when she wants it? If not, bye bye.

Next, is he stupid enough that she can control him with her manipulations? If so, she will stay with you as long as she gets what she wants. She wants financial security first. When do these tests stop? Never.

Maybe that is your experience but not mine.

I have dated several Russian women (I mean Russian no other FSU country) and never had any of them looking if I get my wallet out easily or not!

Actually one of them would not meet me in Greece if I insisted paying for her holiday.

With my wife I had constant battles to let me pay and nearly missed my good luck when I met her because she paid a taxi behind my back and will not accept my money!

Many times she got very cross with my insistent.......even now that we are married, I have to force my will to pay.... by telling her ... it's our money.

The ones you met obviously had very different priorities in life and love and a good family was not one of them!

Am I a good lover?..... I must be, that's why she married me........LOL

Control me?

Not a bloody chance and she knew that right from our first meeting. She tried of course but was made clear to her that I don't play such games and the door is open all the time. Three years down the line, since we met....... she is still crazy about me and it's getting better every day!

No tests and no games..... just love and affection is what I get from her and I return back too!

I only agree with you that the whole JR story looks clearly as a scam but the problem is that JR has left a lot of important details out so....... he only knows the truth!

[Chicagoguy]

My wife wasn't working so I do not know if she would have paid. But now that we are married I do know she is very frugal.

My biggest surprise was when we were in Moscow together and first met her 26 year old daughter. Her daughter paid for our dinner !

[CanadaMan]

I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop, but it never does!

It's now almost one month since JR returned from his trip (did he really ever go on it?) and he still hasn't finished his trip report.

JR starts his story and slips up with his timing. In his opening post he says:

"The decision is made, I’m going and we’ll spend a day together. The rest of the week I’ll visit with her family. Something like that"

How does he know he'll be spending only a day with her at this point? And how in the world does he know, of all people, he'll be spending a week with her family?

In his NEXT post he says:
"About a week and a half  before I am to leave she tells me she got a great new job... Her date of departure would be the day after I arrive."

Then JR leaks out some other goodies:

"Hehe rjd400, we might, MIGHT be there at the same time )))"
re: rjd400's upcoming trip to Tashkent in May.

and also...

"I had a plan B."


BUT... are these just empty lures?

My conclusion. One of three things has happened here:

1. It's all out on the table, everything happened just as he said it did.
And in the end he has nothing to show for his trip at all.

2. Most of the story has been told and is fairly accurate, but he's keeping some "goodies" for later.
His "goodies" are enough to keep him interested in K and actually make another trip to visit her again!

3. JR never went on the trip and has a great imagination.

[JR]

Canadaman, your imagination is better than mine. Everything I wrote happened...

The movie has already been made, it's titled "Taken" and stars Liam Neeson.

K is scheduled to return from Tajikistan in early May so I MIGHT go back.

I am writing an epilogue and will post it soon. I have been buried at work and haven't had much time lately. That's both good and bad )

[Dave13]

CanadaMan " 3. JR never went on the trip and has a great imagination."  Interesting point, one that I've considered, JR has yet to disclose how he returned to the US without money are his passport?

[JR]

Dave, Dave, Dave....where did I say I returned to the US sans cash and passport? )))))

[Dave13]

And he steps into the Bear Trap!     JR, just look at your post in the Experienced section on March 01 ( WFVF new trip catergory)   " except losing my passport, cash and credit card in SVO "

[Jumper]

Dave,I remebered that too..

but  just guessing,
 its assumed he recovered them..or temporay docs and used another card..

i doubt you could travel even leave  SVO,(on a plane)  much less travel to tashkent and back without getting that straightened out.

[Dave13]

AJ, Losing the US passport is a pain but the real problem is replacing the Russian Visa   moscow.usembassy.gov/russian-visa . The Embassy can replace a lost passport with a emergency passport that is valid for three months. But a Russian visa is only valid for the passport in which it is placed. If the passport is lost, the visa  looses its validity. It is the responsibility of the passport holder to obtain an appropriate visa for the new passport. Replacing the Russian visa you must first consult with your sponsor----  the number of documents to obtain your exit visa: ( A letter from your sponsor stating your problem, a copy of your visa, your migration card, a police certificate indicating that the loss or theft was reported to police, your U.S. passport.) Rubles to pay the small fines and processing fees.
Processing time can be as long as one or two weeks. Under the law Passport STOL/PVU is allowed up to 20 working days to process your documents. Only your sponsor can expedite the process.

Losing your passport with the visa, is a major problem, everyone should be aware of, always make copies and keep them in a different location from the originals.

[Dave13]

AJ, Russianwind did comment about this in this thread, " Can't wait to hear the part about stolen documents and money."  

[Jumper]

Dave - i know this well i wasnt disagreeing ,
just was saying JR must have gotten them back ,had copies , or other.

and yes i realize the time it takes in getting new visas etc.. its why assumed he found them

remember his timeline was only one day anyway..   
so any real delay would have screwed his flight connection from SVO to tashkent

[JR]

And he steps into the Bear Trap!     JR, just look at your post in the Experienced section on March 01 ( WFVF new trip catergory)   " except losing my passport, cash and credit card in SVO "

Ah yes, I did say that but I can't remember where I wrote that I returned to the US without them......

[JR]

~~~Epilogue~~~

Along the way there were gremlins, gnawing and beating at the door, wanting out of the cage. I asked them what evidence they had to plead their case. When they replied that their only evidence was paranoia I told them to keep their asses in the cage, they would get no audience with me.

And that kind of the way I see it. I have no real evidence that anything is amiss here. I have some questions I’d like answered regarding photos, timelines and statements but does that make someone a scammer or insincere? No, it means I don’t have all the answers. I have not given all the little details in this story because I didn’t want to get too far off track while I was trying to tell it.

I included the part about helping her mother because it made a big impression on me. But does that make her a bad person? Or does it make me sensitive to certain subjects? I recall that when twice I posted girls as scammers here on this forum because they had asked me for financial assistance in order to  travel expenses to meet with me several people reprimanded me saying that my logic was thin, that of course the lady would need assistance and it was only natural she would ask that I do so. Normally as soon as a woman mentions money I walk away.

In one letter K had related to me how she didn’t have proper boots for winter and her feet were suffering for it. Was she asking me for money in a round-a-bout way? Or was she relating to me a part of her life? As a veterinarian she probably stands on concrete for many hours a day. I have done this at my work and in the winter your feet get chilled to the bone. I would tell my ex-wife about how cold it could get and how you simply could not keep your feet warm while standing on concrete for long periods of time. I wasn’t trying to suggest to my wife that she buy me new boots. I was just relating to her a part of my daily life that occupied my thoughts. When your feet are frozen it’s hard to think of much else.

K asked me months ago to postpone my trip until May because she might get a new job but I forged ahead anyway. Does my impatience reflect upon her? I think not, it was my decision to move ahead knowing in advance what might happen. I expected that at worst she would be busy with a new job and we would spend only a few hours a day together. I had not anticipated her having to leave the country. When she contacted me telling about the job and it’s need for her to leave the country I decided to go anyways. She then again tried to warn me off several times by calling me and telling me not to come, but I was already on the way and did not get her emails nor voice mails until I returned.
To those who say I am being scammed I would reply that it is not out of the realm of possibility but I have no evidence of that. If they are scammers then they are all good actors and exceptionally stupid. I have their addresses, phone numbers (cells and land lines), email addresses, I have seen where O works, I have been to their apartments, I have interacted with their children, I have their photos. If they are scammers and do so little to protect themselves and their identities it won’t be long before they run afoul of someone a little more vindictive and for a few dollars have some local thugs bring a world of hurt to their family. No, I don’t think they are scammers. O brought me to the point of being pissed off about paying at the restaurant. Would a scammer have pushed back so hard?
 If anything it may turn out that their daughter only wants a man for money or as a mule (which is a matter of the heart, or lack thereof and a bit more difficult to discern). If that is the case this pattern will establish itself in short order. I am in tune to that possibility and keeping my eyes and ears open. Obviously I am not against helping monetarily, have done so again since I last posted and will most likely do so in the future. But while she is testing me, I am testing her. If her true nature is one of a woman who wants only to be rescued from what she considers to be destitution and can find no love inside herself other than that of money I will gladly pay that small fee and as someone it in another thread said so aptly “fall to my knees and thank God.” I will consider that I have gotten away cheaply. Really, what’s a few hundred, or thousand or even five or ten thousand dollars if it saves me from a few years of hell and my daughter half her future?
 But I don’t think that is the case. And I am trying not to become infected with baseless accusations. If and when I have something solid to point to I will not look the other way. If her next email is from Dubai or Turkey I’ll have some hard thinking to do.
 So where does that leave me? That question is very difficult to answer. I feel in a state of limbo. We have no relationship…hell, currently I don’t even have contact with her. It’s like I know this family on the other side of the world. Maybe they’ll set me up with their daughter, Hahaha!

[wiz]

K asked me months ago to postpone my trip until May because she might get a new job but I forged ahead anyway. Does my impatience reflect upon her? I think not, it was my decision to move ahead knowing in advance what might happen. I expected that at worst she would be busy with a new job and we would spend only a few hours a day together. I had not anticipated her having to leave the country.

So how do you justify your decision to go ahead with the visit, when K had already warned you about the possibilities and asked you to postpone it?

Was that a sensible decision or just a plain stupid one?

[Boethius]

You are an adult, JR, and can make up your own mind.  I try to keep an open mind about others, but there are many things in this story that are perplexing.  Tajikistan is one of the poorest former Soviet republics, with an extremely high unemployment rate.  Thousands of men travel from Tajikistan to Russia annually looking for work.  The populace survives there primarily by growing their own food.  Yet, someone from a neighbouring republic manages to find work. 

Dushanbe is about 350 kim or so from Tashkent.  Granted, the roads are not great, but we're not talking a lot of distance.  And yet, a woman who professes interest in you can't make accomodations, by perhaps taking another bus, to meet with you, or even arrange to have you meet her there for a few hours.  It does not sound like someone who would put you first.  Is that what you are looking for?

[Daveman]

well, after spending a week or so with JR (well, not exactly, but you get the idea)  in person during another trip not long ago, this story as he is telling it rings absolutely plausible to me in every way. Meaning, I don't believe he's yanking anyone's chain here.  I saw first hand how he behaved around ladies, as well as how he treated everyone with whom he came in contact with courtesy and respect and I also witnessed his personality in action. I can easily see him doing exactly what he's written in this TR, unusual as it might be.

No comments about the girl as both sides of the equation have been mention, but just throwing in a little "verification" from someone who has seen him on a trip (and not the drug induced kind).

[BillyB]

well, after spending a week or so with JR (well, not exactly, but you get the idea)  in person

You guys aren't into homo play are you?

Considering JR's lady asked him to delay his trip tells me she may not be insincere since a scammer wants to get close to a guy and his wallet as quickly as possible. But then again if she's working a new job, she may not reap any wine and dine benefits or shopping trips. She may be a great gal but the events and lack of face to face time is unfortunate. Keep us posted JR if you are going to stick with this woman and take another trip or move on.

[Jack]

Hey Donhollio, how you doing?

On a different matter, but since this is your most recent post, the person you recommend in Odessa for flats, Matt, I have used your link and it's not working or there is some problem.   www.odessarentaflat.com    Maybe the site is down or agency oob.

Donhollio would you PM or email me?

[Jumper]

Hey jack,
 are you posting in the correct thread?

 I see no references to odessa ,flats ,or donhollio in this one?

[I/O]

JR: I have been amused (although not completely impressed) by your ability to infatuate and entertain the new PP (Perfectly Polite) crowd since you first arrived on RWD and I note your long previous marriage to an Eastern Woman but FWIW, in the early days I read around forums, those who knew a thing or two would have called you clueless. I'm from the old school.

Umpteen years of marriage, 1100 letters and you have little or no clue regarding these women from struggleville. They have an attention span of less than one day. You're there today, a job is there tomorrow, better money is there the next, a different set of priorities is there another day, mom is sick another day and so it goes. You might get a gig in there somewhere from time to time.

Nasty though it may sound, the level of women you are setting your sights on is rubbish. When I first went travelling solo years back I consulted a handful of people who knew little about the FSU and the one thing I recall was "You'll be fine but stay away from anything with a "Stan" on the end of it". I have ventured (briefly) across "Stan" borders from time to time, found good and bad but for the most part the advice was fair IMO. Within the "Stans" you'll find some positives but the percentage of rubbish is much higher. Travelling Vet from Tashkent? ROFL..!!! She might be handling "horses" but I can assure you buddy, they ain't the 4 legged variety.

My concern primarily is not that but rather your state of denial a couple of posts up thread. Either there is a helluva lot more to this story than you are telling of you really do need to do some serious soul searching. You're a good looking guy, reasonably educated so it seems, have reasonable means and a capacity to love (you constantly mention your beloved daughter). Why this huge insecurity hole in your personality? What's the deal? Why are you selling yourself so short constantly? Your target range is rubbish when it should be top shelf. Buy a ladder for goodness sakes and have a look at the bypassed merchandise sitting idle on the top shelf. It's there aplenty.

As for her family and scamming, if your story is accurate, they didn't scam you, they were caught slightly in the cross fire, felt a bit guilty as will be the case with these types of people who have some decency in them but are constrained by thinking born in economic adversity, helped you a little but in the end didn't miss the opportunity to use you to their advantage. The story over dinner about how she is in love with you was the clincher for me. You handled that reasonably well at the minute but failed to see the wider implications. They weren't selling her, they were selling them.

Again, stop chasing rubbish, look top shelf, write 11 letters instead of 1100, you'll get 10 quality responses, go visit 1 or 2 and have a quality trip instead of living in some 2 dime hovel the locals tell you it is dangerous to venture out of. At the present rate you'll be joining the "Jailbird" tour of Eastern Ukraine next. IMO guys of your potential class should be searching palaces instead.

[Blues Fairy]

I haven't commented on your report so far, JR, but after I/O's analysis I have to say I agree with him in many respects.

IMHO, the fact that you are still contemplating going back to her, after all this, can mean three things:

1. You are head over heels about this lady (despite having never met her);
2. You have a knight-in-shining armor complex and see her as a damsel in distress;
3. You are desperate because you feel you are running out of time or opportunity to meet anyone of comparable interest. 

Neither I nor anyone here can do anything about the first two possibilities, but as for the third, let me most sincerely assure you: with your gifts, you'll be a catch for a great many excellent and beautiful ladies in more easily accessible parts of FSU.  Heck, I could even introduce you to some from my personal circle of acquaintance - and you can well believe this circle is of the very highest quality.     

[Jack]

I have to ask, what is this  ..... 

"Jailbird" tour of Eastern Ukraine next.